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ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 Empty Re: ATP 1000: Rome

Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Ho Droogle good to have you here. How did you find out?

Yes this is what I wrote yesterday in that thread. Fed really starts to look slow which was not the case last year before Madrid.

I however though he was always extremely fast with pinpoint footwork accuracy. Yesterday he looked sluggish.

But I am also convinced he plays with the wrong racquet. Especially on the BH. The racquet is too tiny and considerably heavier than most racquets on tour so it is very difficult to time a zippy ball a la Nadal. He cannot generate the power and spin that is required nowadays....and of course the precision of his shots vanishes quicker at the end of a 10 shot rally.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

droogle wrote:nitb:
I think the interesting thing about Fed was how he had such an amazing winning streak in 2012 whilst always looking fragile. There was clearly a lot of work going on behind the scenes and somehow he managed to maintain a consistent narrow lead whilst never looking properly dominant. Wimbledon was a peculiar phenomenon; he looked appalling in some rounds and somehow overcame his back problems exactly when he needed to to beat Djoko and Murray. But I think that the idea that by reducing his schedule he can put less strain on his body and continue to get results is a fallacy and marks the end of his career, and that's what we're seeing in 2013. It's just not possible to maintain form and fitness whilst playing less, so he either aggravates the back problem or loses form and fitness.
So he plays casual tennis and beats most players, but I don't see how he'll have the form for the slams.

Yes that's a very fine line he has to walk, but I believe he probably has no other choice with his back problem which must be chronic now. Such a shame. Which is why I am doubly happy for his 2012. That was sweet and beautiful.
Still!!!
As you say, he was a bit all over the place in Wimbledon yet managed to pull it all off IN style, that 4th set was something special!
That's what I think he is banking on this year again, a bit of playing himself into form, trusting his talent and experience. He looked quite fit, but a bit slow in the last match against Nadal in Rome. He reminded me very much of his Olympic Games final against Murray edition in that match, completely physically overwhelmed by his opponent. But he never looked like that in their Wimbledon final which was played just a few weeks before.
Was as quick as a panther in the first one, though (I am talking about the first match in Rome here).

So yes, probably the lack of match fitness is showing, it could be a lot worse.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:05 pm



Last edited by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:16 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:06 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Prediction time:
I reckon Nadal is not going to be in Novak's half in RG!
Finally you are correct about something! ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 83870220


Last edited by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 3:09 pm

droogle wrote:I think the interesting thing about Fed was how he had such an amazing winning streak in 2012 whilst always looking fragile. There was clearly a lot of work going on behind the scenes and somehow he managed to maintain a consistent narrow lead whilst never looking properly dominant.
Doing 2012 took a huge lump out of Federer mentally, to be blunt I think he's fried and the easy draw at Rome for him

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 3:12 pm

My question to you all is the following. Yes he has been having a bad year so far, but against Nadal it looked both times as if he was not even trying. Last time his back was bad, but he still forced himself to beat Stan, and he likes Stan, why didn't he just give up that match. Then he gets to play vs. Nadal and hardly plays? In Rome, his back was much better and he hadn't lost one set, yes he got a couple of TBs in the last two matches before meeting Nadal but still, till the final he was overall the better player on the tournament. Then he loses easily vs. Nadal? OK he was more tired than the latter as he had been having the latest matches the last three days, but he didn't look like he was trying. So for me it is either he is playing much worse this year but it shows amplified when he meets Nadal or he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 3:16 pm

sphairistike wrote:My question to you all is the following. Yes he has been having a bad year so far, but against Nadal it looked both times as if he was not even trying. Last time his back was bad, but he still forced himself to beat Stan, and he likes Stan, why didn't he just give up that match. Then he gets to play vs. Nadal and hardly plays? In Rome, his back was much better and he hadn't lost one set, yes he got a couple of TBs in the last two matches before meeting Nadal but still, till the final he was overall the better player on the tournament. Then he loses easily vs. Nadal? OK he was more tired than the latter as he had been having the latest matches the last three days, but he didn't look like he was trying. So for me it is either he is playing much worse this year but it shows amplified when he meets Nadal or he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?

Whoa Sphair!
And I thought I was thinking outside the box Big Grin

I must say, my masochism could only last until Fed's last shot landed out. I turned the stream off immediately, didn't even want to see the "handshake"...let alone listen to the PR-ed ceremony and see Nadal bite another trophy.

But very interesting idea. Nothing would surprise me.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 3:18 pm

BlueClay wrote:

I was just going to answer your question, and now you saw sense in it so deleted it. Wise Winking

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:20 pm

noleisthebest
Yes, as soon as Novak's ankle gets to 100%, Nadal has no chance. Nole has a tried and tested recipe for Nadal, I am surprised you can't see it.
Even Ferrer nearly beat Nadal twice recently with his serve-less game.
Nole completely owns Nadal in every way, so you can cheer up now ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 4006036031
Did Novak have an "ankle injury" in 2012 when Nadal defeated him three times on clay?
No such thing as "nearly beat" in tennis. Ferrer still lost as he usually does to Nadal.
No Novak does not completely own Nadal in every way, that is delusional fanboy talk.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
I was just going to answer your question, and now you saw sense in it so deleted it. Wise ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 1071211947
For some reason my post was not showing up, I tried to edit a few times and did not work so I deleted original and started again. See above.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:23 pm

sphairistike wrote:he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?
Just when I think I have heard it all, I read this comment. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2786941968

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 3:24 pm

wilson_nxt wrote:
droogle wrote:I think the interesting thing about Fed was how he had such an amazing winning streak in 2012 whilst always looking fragile. There was clearly a lot of work going on behind the scenes and somehow he managed to maintain a consistent narrow lead whilst never looking properly dominant.
Doing 2012 took a huge lump out of Federer mentally, to be blunt I think he's fried and the easy draw at Rome for him
Isn't winning in fact easy on the mind as opposed to losing? If not how come he was not fried after winning his first slam but went on winning 16 more?
I honestly do not think anything mental preventing Fed from achieving more. I however see a lot of mouvement and injury problems since Madrid 2012 final.
He hesitated to play Rome because of injuries, had a horrible FO where he was bugged doiwn by SVers like Mahut, youngsters like Goffin. Then was in more back pain in WImbledon where he took a MTO for the first time in a decade.Had further weird results due to poor serving (Back again?) in the USO, etc...
I honestly cannot see the mental side playing much of a role here...especially with such brilliant results up to and including WImbledon. ...The game however keeps getting physically tougher on tour and Fed looks really overwhelmed physically nowadays....despite reaching a TMS final without dropping

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 3:28 pm

BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?
Just when I think I have heard it all, I read this comment. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2786941968

So why don't you answer? I thought I could recall you write you didn't believe Nadal and his knee injury. So which is it?

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 3:33 pm

sphairistike wrote:.....So for me it is either he is playing much worse this year but it shows amplified when he meets Nadal or he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?
It's a funny but fair point. I still
..

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 3:40 pm

I am not going to write the rest of my reply to sphair for a 3rd time....not sure what;s going on but twice my text got deleted while posting.

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 3:43 pm

Tenez wrote:I am not going to write the rest of my reply to sphair for a 3rd time....not sure what;s going on but twice my text got deleted while posting.

Moderators? Laugh

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 3:44 pm

Tenez wrote:I am not going to write the rest of my reply to sphair for a 3rd time....not sure what;s going on but twice my text got deleted while posting.

come on T!!!
We are all ears Whistle

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 3:47 pm

really bizarre I wrote a long post back and got deleted twice.
As said in short I agree that Fed looked demotivated. Be it for teh reasons Sphair stipulates or simply because he knows winning Nadal on clay is simply not in him anymore I don't know but he looked tired, physically and for once, I'd say also mentally.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 3:54 pm

BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest
Yes, as soon as Novak's ankle gets to 100%, Nadal has no chance. Nole has a tried and tested recipe for Nadal, I am surprised you can't see it.
Even Ferrer nearly beat Nadal twice recently with his serve-less game.
Nole completely owns Nadal in every way, so you can cheer up now ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 4006036031
Did Novak have an "ankle injury" in 2012 when Nadal defeated him three times on clay?
No such thing as "nearly beat" in tennis. Ferrer still lost as he usually does to Nadal.
No Novak does not completely own Nadal in every way, that is delusional fanboy talk.

MC 2012, his grandfather died during the tournament.
Rome 2012 was saving himself for RG
RG, Nole demolished him until the organisers ended the match which was supposed to be best of 5 and made it into two separate matches. I don't remember a slam final ever being messed up like that.

2013, back to business Cool , unfortunately Nole should have rested the ankle for MC but caved in to the pressure of playing in his adopted home. So recovery delayed, and possible complications incurred.

RG: God willing, all well with the ankles, Nadal dethroned and you relieved of the burden of telling us he is going to win everything once and for all Big Grin

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 3:59 pm

Tenez wrote:really bizarre I wrote a long post back and got deleted twice.
As said in short I agree that Fed looked demotivated. Be it for teh reasons Sphair stipulates or simply because he knows winning Nadal on clay is simply not in him anymore I don't know but he looked tired, physically and for once, I'd say also mentally.

That's how I thought Nole must have felt for some time after that AO final....who wants to endure that brutality....it must have been an agony to watch let alone play...I have still only seen the last few points of all those 6 hours of arm-wrestling....

Come November and O2, we'll see how Nadal fares. 11 slams and zero WTF/TMCs. Says a lot.

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Yep I replied and mine got deleted too.
Agree Tenez that Federer is getting physically overwhelmed but what is he doing to combat that? Nothing. His arms and legs are looking increasingly stick-like and I wonder if his fitness is what it was 3-4 year ago even. However, I also think pressure of getting those 15-16 more weeks at #1 took their toll too. You cannot stay as strong mentally when you are not as strong physically as you were. If you look at him in 2003-2006 he was a completely different bodyshape. Now he's a stick man relying on his rapid hand-eye talent, its not enough and I wonder whether he has the motivation mentally to put the physical gym grind in like Ferrer does.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 4:03 pm

There's no way Fed's legs are sticks. They looked quite muscular and toned in Rome.

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 4:03 pm

Tenez wrote:really bizarre I wrote a long post back and got deleted twice.
As said in short I agree that Fed looked demotivated. Be it for the reasons Sphair stipulates or simply because he knows winning Nadal on clay is simply not in him anymore I don't know but he looked tired, physically and for once, I'd say also mentally.

What about IW? He should have given him a w/o. Why did he bother to show up but not even try to play?

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 4:18 pm

wilson_nxt wrote: You cannot stay as strong mentally when you are not as strong physically as you were. If you look at him in 2003-2006 [/code]he was a completely different bodyshape. Now he's a stick man relying on his rapid hand-eye talent, its not enough and I wonder whether he has the motivation mentally to put the physical gym grind in like Ferrer does.

That is indeed very true and this is why the mental side is not so much the issue as without the physical "base" the mental side is irrelevant. Like you cannot be mentally strong jumping on a ring facing tyson if you are not physically prepared.

I think we fans expect him to keep up physically with the rest cause we want him to win. For him it;s probably different. He wants to play tennis and since he was given an amazing talent he was able to win while working very hard ....up to a point. We tend to forget but beating Hewitt physically was a real challenge for Federer in his early carreer. Unfortunately nowadays teh physical side kept on increasing and yesterday it really felt like a heavyweight v a featherweight....it felt already like that in 2007/08 but now Federer must have been choked to see the guy on the other side..he probably felt like a spectator in this arena...a front row spectator watching teh phenomenon that Nadal is ..despite his poor knee. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 1564925666

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 4:22 pm

sphairistike wrote:
Tenez wrote:really bizarre I wrote a long post back and got deleted twice.
As said in short I agree that Fed looked demotivated. Be it for the reasons Sphair stipulates or simply because he knows winning Nadal on clay is simply not in him anymore I don't know but he looked tired, physically and for once, I'd say also mentally.

What about IW? He should have given him a w/o. Why did he bother to show up but not even try to play?

I think he tried his best in IW but simply did not want to damage his back further...so may have felt like he was not trying too hard.

Maybe that's the reason for yesterday. I think his drop of mouvement is simply to sudden to attribute that to age. It's either lack of preparation or simply the back playing up. It's very difficult to say...but strangely enough when he has a back problem it loosen up as the match goes on....and yesterday again, like for all his matches at FO and WImby 12 he finished better than he started.

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 4:28 pm

Federer has had many challenges over the years and we know Nadal has been a constant challenge since 2004. But Nadal aside, he looks weaker to me, sure he's fit but the strength isn't the same in the upper body. His calves are still big but then you'd expect that. Its his quads that look thinner to me and he's nowhere near as broad across the shoulders when you compare videos of 2004-2006. That SHBH needs a lot of power across the chest and in the quads (knee bends) to hit for 3-4 hours. I just think he cant physically live with prolonged 15+ shot ralleys anymore so we see him pulling the trigger earlier and earlier. We fans have to expect this, he's 32 this year and do everything. He's given the game remarkable memories and legacies but the younger, tenacious and physically stronger pack have well and truly caught him up. Tennis never stands still just as it didn't when Federer himself came along in 1998.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 4:36 pm

I thought Fed looked quite big in Rome compared to last year when he was a lot leaner, esp in WTF.
I think he has worked a lot on strength during the two months off, just needs to fine-tune it with match playing now.
Privately, he is probably pleased with his Rome final in terms of points and result.
Gamewise, obviously, experienced and sly fox he is, he is not going to peak in Rome, is he Winking

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 5:12 pm

wilson_nxt wrote: I just think he cant physically live with prolonged 15+ shot ralleys anymore so we see him pulling the trigger earlier and earlier. We fans have to expect this, he's 32 this year and do everything. He's given the game remarkable memories and legacies but the younger, tenacious and physically stronger pack have well and truly caught him up. Tennis never stands still just as it didn't when Federer himself came along in 1998.

Frankly I think he never could. WHen he was younger he could keep on with Hewitt, then a young Nadal with much poorer shots than now was enough of a challenge. But the thing is those guys are getting bigger and stronger year in year out while he remains the same...and this is why we think he declines....but take the top 3 aside (those who get fitter constantly), Fed still cuts through the draw as easily as ever....certainly was the case in Rome.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 5:30 pm

sphairistike wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
sphairistike wrote:he is aware of the silent ban and it is his way to give the guy a silent boycott. He just doesn't want to give a w/o or show it in a too obvious manner as he is the most respected brand in tennis so he cannot go and tell everybody the truth about the cheat... For me, his speech at the end says it all, "I spent a good week with my family here", so was he on vacation or was he giving a message to the TDs telling them "I'll go as far as I can in the tournament but will not give you the show people paid for in the final if I meet that cheat"? Which is it?
Just when I think I have heard it all, I read this comment. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2786941968

So why don't you answer? I thought I could recall you write you didn't believe Nadal and his knee injury. So which is it?

I don't believe Nadal and his knee injury and I do believe he was on a silent suspension but to say that Federer lost the match so convincingly against Nadal yesterday because it was his way to give Nadal a silent boycott for the silent suspension. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard frankly.

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 5:32 pm

Well lets hope Federer gets as good a draw as Rome in RG for the first 5 rounds! He needs to avoid a couple of long matches to save strength for the semis if he can get there. Nadal doesn't hit the ball as clean for sure but he is an unorthodox enigma and very adaptive, more adaptive than Roger it would seem. Anyway, I don't really see what Roger can do vs Nadal, the H2H is so skewed in one direction, Roger hasn't beaten him in a slam since 2007 and only once outdoors since Madrid 2009. We need someone else to take Nadal out for him! Djokovic? Hmm, I'm not so sure now given the way he just played against Berdych. For me a lot comes down to the weather, if hot and dry then I see only Nadal winning with maybe Roger in the final (it was hot/dry when Roger beat Novak in 2011). Cool and damp then its 50/50 between Djokovic and Nadal. A lot depends on Djokovic's confidence, his erratic run of 2013 results are weird. Anyway...Allez Roger pour Paris!

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 5:36 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest
Yes, as soon as Novak's ankle gets to 100%, Nadal has no chance. Nole has a tried and tested recipe for Nadal, I am surprised you can't see it.
Even Ferrer nearly beat Nadal twice recently with his serve-less game.
Nole completely owns Nadal in every way, so you can cheer up now ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 4006036031
Did Novak have an "ankle injury" in 2012 when Nadal defeated him three times on clay?
No such thing as "nearly beat" in tennis. Ferrer still lost as he usually does to Nadal.
No Novak does not completely own Nadal in every way, that is delusional fanboy talk.

MC 2012, his grandfather died during the tournament.
Rome 2012 was saving himself for RG
RG, Nole demolished him until the organisers ended the match which was supposed to be best of 5 and made it into two separate matches. I don't remember a slam final ever being messed up like that.

2013, back to business ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 4006036031 , unfortunately Nole should have rested the ankle for MC but caved in to the pressure of playing in his adopted home. So recovery delayed, and possible complications incurred.

RG: God willing, all well with the ankles, Nadal dethroned and you relieved of the burden of telling us he is going to win everything once and for all ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 364988687



His grandfather died before the MC 2012 match and in the Rome 2012 he was saving himself for RG? Ha, ha, ha. You sound like one of those nutty Nadal fans who come up with crazy excuses every time Nadal loses. Well, if Djokovic did in fact lose MC 2012 to save himself for RG, it did not exactly work did it? ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 123628122 You better hope history does not repeat itself. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 3099823284

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Post by luvsports! on Mon May 20, 2013 5:39 pm

I don't think it was hot/dry when feds beat novak wilson.
It was evening/night time and it was quite blustery at times.
Most of the final was hot and dry, still think what might have been if he hadn't have missed that drop shot at 5-2.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Tenez wrote:really bizarre I wrote a long post back and got deleted twice.
As said in short I agree that Fed looked demotivated. Be it for teh reasons Sphair stipulates or simply because he knows winning Nadal on clay is simply not in him anymore I don't know but he looked tired, physically and for once, I'd say also mentally.

Do you think that Federer would be able to beat Nadal on hc or grass with their respective forms from the Rome event or their respective forms so far this whole year?

How could Federer be tired mentally or physically? He was off for two months prior to Madrid and lost early in Madrid. When are ALL fans of ALL players going to stop making excuses when their favourite player loses? Enough is enough already.

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Post by SayonaRa on Mon May 20, 2013 6:45 pm

sphairistike wrote:
Veejay wrote:Fed looks finished to me...obviously had less time to recover but still a poor showing for most of the season...I am hoping I am correct cause every time I think he is finished,he proves me completely wrong!

He kinda looks finished but somehow I have some feeling he has something up his sleeve. He seemed to know something, like he could beat Nadal if he wanted to but he'd rather wait for the French Open to show a new secret weapon.

Not unlikely. Although no body expected him to win, we also didn't expect him to lose in such a surreal way giving almost no competition. Momentarily, he did show he could hit the ball the way he wanted to but most of the time he lost so many balls in a highly unlikely manner. It was not so much that Nadal beat him but he gave the win to rafa on a silver platter. If we look back at IW just recently, I just don't believe he could have played better there with a real back problem when he could hardly move! In other words, how could it be possible that he played worse in Rome when his back issues are under control and the fact that he didn't drop a set the whole week playing surprisingly impressive tennis? He tanked.

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 6:47 pm

BlueClay wrote:
I don't believe Nadal and his knee injury and I do believe he was on a silent suspension but to say that Federer lost the match so convincingly against Nadal yesterday because it was his way to give Nadal a silent boycott for the silent suspension. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard frankly.

If this is the dumbest thing you've ever heard, you are a lucky man! Winking I was proposing an alternative explanation. You are not proposing anything to explain the result. Unless you agree with the first alternative, i.e. Roger is generally not playing well this year and his poor form gets amplified when he plays Nadal as the game of the latter is by essence the negation of the game of the former. What is you thought on this?

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 6:48 pm

SR wrote:
sphairistike wrote:
Veejay wrote:Fed looks finished to me...obviously had less time to recover but still a poor showing for most of the season...I am hoping I am correct cause every time I think he is finished,he proves me completely wrong!

He kinda looks finished but somehow I have some feeling he has something up his sleeve. He seemed to know something, like he could beat Nadal if he wanted to but he'd rather wait for the French Open to show a new secret weapon.

Not unlikely. Although no body expected him to win, we also didn't expect him to lose in such a surreal way giving almost no competition. Momentarily, he did show he could hit the ball the way he wanted to but most of the time he lost so many balls in a highly unlikely manner. It was not so much that Nadal beat him but he gave the win to rafa on a silver platter. If we look back at IW just recently, I just don't believe he could have played better there with a real back problem when he could hardly move! In other words, how could it be possible that he played worse in Rome when his back issues are under control and the fact that he didn't drop a set the whole week playing surprisingly impressive tennis? He tanked.

Someone with wisdom here! Thumbs Up Applause

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 6:51 pm

sphairistike wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
I don't believe Nadal and his knee injury and I do believe he was on a silent suspension but to say that Federer lost the match so convincingly against Nadal yesterday because it was his way to give Nadal a silent boycott for the silent suspension. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard frankly.

If this is the dumbest thing you've ever heard, you are a lucky man! Winking I was proposing an alternative explanation. You are not proposing anything to explain the result. Unless you agree with the first alternative, i.e. Roger is generally not playing well this year and his poor form gets amplified when he plays Nadal as the game of the latter is by essence the negation of the game of the former. What is you thought on this?

As SR said, nobody was expecting him to lose that easily, especially seeing how well he played ion the tournament overall. At least till the QF included, he seemed like the much better player compared to Nadal. Had I seen a 3 set match ending with a bread stick in Nadal's favor, it would have made perfect sense to me. This score is just too, FO 2008 like but this time Fed didn't seem to be recovering from anything serious physically...

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Post by luvsports! on Mon May 20, 2013 7:13 pm

I just think people are looking into this too much. Nadal played well, feds had an off day. Convo over?

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Post by sphairistike on Mon May 20, 2013 7:15 pm

luvsports! wrote:I just think people are looking into this too much. Nadal played well, feds had an off day. Convo over?

Maybe you feel this way and I respect that. It's a forum though and it must be the place where we can start and not finish such convos Cheers

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Post by Veejay on Mon May 20, 2013 8:22 pm

luvsports! wrote:I just think people are looking into this too much. Nadal played well, feds had an off day. Convo over?

I think its more then just an off day..time has seriously caught up with Roger,pretty standard clay performance from Nadal
Just gave Roger enough rope to hang himself..

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Post by paulcz on Mon May 20, 2013 8:58 pm

Having seen the record of yesterday final the reality of the match is even worse. I have never seen so many mishits from BH side from any player playing with Nadal for many years. Fed was not able to hit the ball into the court more than three times from BH side. If they are going to meet in RG, then a bagel is going to be on the agenda. Nadal pulled Fed as a child is pulling an inflatable drake on a sandpit.

Seriously there is no way that Nadal can lose with Fed on clay or BO5 sometime in the future. Or rather I do not know what should happen in order that Fed was able to win. That is unimaginable atm.

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Post by gallery play on Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 pm

It's not just Federer who lost.
With Nadal's current fitness/energy level he'll dominate upcoming slam and likely the next one too. He recently played a few close matches but in Bo5 format he'll be even more dominant because his confidence is now back too.
He's simply too fast and his tennis too powerful for anybody else, including Djoko i'm afraid.

Rafa never fooled me when he returned in SA (doing impressions of a not fully recoverd player). When a guy like Nadal comes back after a long absence, you just know he secretly built a "bigger weapon" than he had before. And i'm not talking about an improved dropshot

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 9:13 pm

"SR" He tanked
.



Why on earth would he tank after reaching the finals of a Masters 1000 tourament he has never won? That makes no sense at all, I am sorry. Fans are hilarious with their excuses, it never ends.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2474333020

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Post by gallery play on Mon May 20, 2013 9:17 pm

BlueClay wrote:
"SR" He tanked
.



Why on earth would he tank after reaching the finals of a Masters 1000 tourament he has never won? That makes no sense at all, I am sorry. Fans are hilarious with their excuses, it never ends.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2474333020

He didn't tank, but he lost interest in playing against Nadal

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 9:17 pm

sphairistike wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
I don't believe Nadal and his knee injury and I do believe he was on a silent suspension but to say that Federer lost the match so convincingly against Nadal yesterday because it was his way to give Nadal a silent boycott for the silent suspension. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard frankly.

If this is the dumbest thing you've ever heard, you are a lucky man! ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 1071211947 I was proposing an alternative explanation. You are not proposing anything to explain the result. Unless you agree with the first alternative, i.e. Roger is generally not playing well this year and his poor form gets amplified when he plays Nadal as the game of the latter is by essence the negation of the game of the former. What is you thought on this?

I was exaggerating obviously, nothing personal. How can I explain the result? I have no idea but after watching that match or as much of the match as I could take, I never want to see Nadal and Federer on clay again. Nadal made Federer look like a 50 year old out there. It was pathetic. Federer will never beat Nadal on clay again, I am afraid. I feel badly saying that but that is how I feel. I am not sure Federer will ever beat Nadal on any surface or at least not in a slam bo5.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 3391208243 Federer has no confidence playing against Nadal on clay, his confidence has been totally shattered.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 9:20 pm

paulcz wrote:Having seen the record of yesterday final the reality of the match is even worse. I have never seen so many mishits from BH side from any player playing with Nadal for many years. Fed was not able to hit the ball into the court more than three times from BH side. If they are going to meet in RG, then a bagel is going to be on the agenda. Nadal pulled Fed as a child is pulling an inflatable drake on a sandpit.

Seriously there is no way that Nadal can lose with Fed on clay or BO5 sometime in the future. Or rather I do not know what should happen in order that Fed was able to win. That is unimaginable atm.

Bravo! ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 3157886161 That is absolutely how I feel.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 3391208243

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 9:24 pm

gallery play wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
"SR" He tanked
.



Why on earth would he tank after reaching the finals of a Masters 1000 tourament he has never won? That makes no sense at all, I am sorry. Fans are hilarious with their excuses, it never ends.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 9 2474333020

He didn't tank, but he lost interest in playing against Nadal

So what is Federer doing out there then still? He does not want to even try to make the h2h better? He can't expect to make finals and not have to face Nadal. Nadal is not going anywhere. Matches like the one yesterday are pitiful. No Fed fan should have to watch that type of thrashing. Federer should not play at all if he can't go out there and at least attempt to make it look competitive.

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Post by paulcz on Mon May 20, 2013 9:25 pm

gallery play wrote:It's not just Federer who lost.
With Nadal's current fitness/energy level he'll dominate upcoming slam and likely the next one too. He recently played a few close matches but in Bo5 format he'll be even more dominant because his confidence is now back too.
He's simply too fast and his tennis too powerful for anybody else, including Djoko i'm afraid.

Rafa never fooled me when he returned in SA (doing impressions of a not fully recoverd player). When a guy like Nadal comes back after a long absence, you just know he secretly built a "bigger weapon" than he had before. And i'm not talking about an improved dropshot

I believe in Nole that he is able to do it. Nadal stays so at the back on return that Nole will take the advantage from that and Nole's stand close to the BL is lethal to Nadal when his FH timing is on. Nole is able to push Nadal from side to side. All he needs is to be focused and healthy.

Nadal has improved his shot selection. I saw that his serve looks better than before. But he hardly plays DTL from both wins, he looked to be more at the back of the court than before. He does not get this extra time with Nole anymore.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 9:28 pm

gallery play wrote:

He didn't tank, but he lost interest in playing against Nadal

I thought he did enjoy the challenge of playing the young guns - JJ and Paire though, he did well to top them two nights in a row.
That's the snapshot of him I'll take from Rome, not the final. That, and also that crazy match against Simon, he was out of this world, although these highlights don't capture how good he was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhHR--KUiA4


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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 9:29 pm

gallery play wrote:It's not just Federer who lost.
With Nadal's current fitness/energy level he'll dominate upcoming slam and likely the next one too. He recently played a few close matches but in Bo5 format he'll be even more dominant because his confidence is now back too.
He's simply too fast and his tennis too powerful for anybody else, including Djoko i'm afraid.

Rafa never fooled me when he returned in SA (doing impressions of a not fully recoverd player). When a guy like Nadal comes back after a long absence, you just know he secretly built a "bigger weapon" than he had before. And i'm not talking about an improved dropshot

That is what I think, I agree with you completely. Sometimes I wonder if others are watching the same Nadal I am seeing and the same Djokovic. I think the battle between Djokovic and Nadal is going to be a good one and I think the slams will be split between them this year/next year unless Murray comes back to life or a young player decides to want to win more than one match a year.

I agree also with what you say re Nadal's absence. Dodgy knees my arse. Potions have been reformulated clearly!

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