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ATP 1000: Rome

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 4:26 pm

I can't believe Nadal has just won another tournament. It really feels like The Twilight Zone....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

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Post by Tenez on Sun May 19, 2013 4:58 pm

The energy he showed in this first set and a half is crazy.

Djoko would tire him and then he is gone. Federer by playing short point, plays in Nadal's favour.

I still think that despite Nadal playing very well, Federer was really poor today...great shots but lacked that timing that is so important to his game.



And when will he understand that he needs to play with a larger lighter frame? It's much more powerful.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Tenez wrote:The energy he showed in this first set and a half is crazy.

Djoko would tire him and then he is gone. Federer by playing short point, plays in Nadal's favour.

I still think that despite Nadal playing very well, Federer was really poor today...great shots but lacked that timing that is so important to his game.



And when will he understand that he needs to play with a larger lighter frame? It's much more powerful.

Yes, that was a bad match from him today. Only a few decent games. Never settled and found any rhythm. Definitely one to forget.

And yes, Nadal's energy was unnatural and grotesquely ridiculous. Just like his ailing knee.
It leaves you with a sick feeling in the stomach.

Why do you think he refuses the racquet change? I am sure he must've tried it at some stage...

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Post by Veejay on Sun May 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Fed looks finished to me...obviously had less time to recover but still a poor showing for most of the season...I am hoping I am correct cause every time I think he is finished,he proves me completely wrong!

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun May 19, 2013 7:12 pm

Blue Clay looks to be more right than wrong about the Clay season predictions. Nadal winning 2/3 Masters + Barcelona. He looks the fav for RG either. Why don't the organizers of RG think that Nadal winning RG is also boring as Fed wining everything was.

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Post by summerblues on Sun May 19, 2013 7:51 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Blue Clay looks to be more right than wrong about the Clay season predictions. Nadal winning 2/3 Masters + Barcelona. He looks the fav for RG either. Why don't the organizers of RG think that Nadal winning RG is also boring as Fed wining everything was.
Yes, very much a standard clay court routine from Rafa. Agree he is the favorite for RG but I would still say that if Nole and Rafa meet there, Nole will be more likely to win. The problem is that I also think that Nole is more likely than Rafa to go out early.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 7:57 pm

summerblues wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Blue Clay looks to be more right than wrong about the Clay season predictions. Nadal winning 2/3 Masters + Barcelona. He looks the fav for RG either. Why don't the organizers of RG think that Nadal winning RG is also boring as Fed wining everything was.
Yes, very much a standard clay court routine from Rafa. Agree he is the favorite for RG but I would still say that if Nole and Rafa meet there, Nole will be more likely to win. The problem is that I also think that Nole is more likely than Rafa to go out early.

It's worth noting the cakewalk draws Nadal has enjoyed as a 5th seed player since his "comeback". He was in Ferrer's quarter in all clay Masters tournaments. Coincidence?

Also, before pronouncing him the man to beat, look at the men he actually beat en-route to his ( 7!!!) titles this year: From the top 4, he beat an ill Federer in IW and also match un-fit Federer here in Rome.

We know what happened when he played Nole in Monte Carlo.

I am beginning to think Nole tanked his match against Berdych in order to keep that mental edge over Nadal since his ankle is still not 100% and he did not want to push it in a potential match against Nadal in the semi. I really can't explain the loss any other way.


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Post by paulcz on Sun May 19, 2013 9:00 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
I am beginning to think Nole tanked his match against Berdych in order to keep that mental edge over Nadal since his ankle is still not 100% and he did not want to push it in a potential match against Nadal in the semi. I really can't explain the loss any other way.


Nitb, that was my first idea, when I learned the result of the match with Berd. No worry about Nole's shape, I am convinced that Nole when playing "the real match" would go over Berd easily. Hopefully he is going to be healthy 100% in a week.

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Post by luvsports! on Sun May 19, 2013 9:04 pm

courtesy of henman bill.

Djokovic 12,310
Murray 8670
Federer 8000
Nadal 6,895
Ferrer 6,740

Also paire up 10 places to a career high 26.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:15 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:Actually Paire and JJ played very well and it was not plain sailing for Fed. We know how scared Nadal is of big hitters and he must have been happy it was Berdych instead of JJ.



Yes because we all know Nadal has losing records against big hitters such as Del Potro, Tsonga and Isner. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 2786941968

Seriously, where is the basis for your comment that Nadal is scared of big hitters? Because of his lone Rosol loss?

I am not a fan of Nadal's style of tennis and I don't believe a word of his injuries over the years but some of you on here go way too far in your Nadal hate and stray too far from reality with your Nadal obvervations.

Maybe because of his lone loss to Soderling?



So what, Nadal still has a winning h2h against Soderling. One or two losses does not indicate he is afraid of big hitters.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:19 pm

"Tenez
Well...you ignore conveniently Soderling, Rosol, and yes the others you mention including Gulbis who are certainly not giving Nadal an easy ride as you suggest. And yes Nadal is certainly scared of them unless you believe that at 2 points of losing a match everything is under control for Nadal. When facing those guys Nadal knows the match is in their racquet and it's obvious he is scared. He knows the match will be down to a handful of key points played under pressure.

As LS says, it's not the granollers and Volandri that Nadal fears. It's those with power and/or stamina

But he still pretty much owns all of those players. It does not matter if a guy like Soderling defeated Nadal once or twice, Nadal still owns that h2h, same with the h2h against Gulbis.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:22 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:Actually Paire and JJ played very well and it was not plain sailing for Fed. We know how scared Nadal is of big hitters and he must have been happy it was Berdych instead of JJ.



Yes because we all know Nadal has losing records against big hitters such as Del Potro, Tsonga and Isner. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 2786941968

Seriously, where is the basis for your comment that Nadal is scared of big hitters? Because of his lone Rosol loss?

I am not a fan of Nadal's style of tennis and I don't believe a word of his injuries over the years but some of you on here go way too far in your Nadal hate and stray too far from reality with your Nadal obvervations.

I too don't think Nadal is afraid of big hitters. It may look like he is perhaps because he stands 4m behind the baseline to receive the serve or keep scrambling all over the court against those shots they hit. But that essentially his game plan and he completely know what he is doing. Like all plans there will be days when they didn't work and some big hitter may blow him off the court ( Soderling RG 09, Tsonga AO, Rosol W12 etc), but the same plan has won him 11 Slams. If there is any game-plan that can win 11 slams, I'm 100% certain being given that results it can produce, almost all the players will happily take it even if some of the fans think it looks cowardice.

Nadal is not coward nor he is afraid of anyone. He is highly disciplined and focused his game and game-plan he very well know what he is doing. I'm not a fan of Nadal nor this game-plan but this is so effective that I don't see why Nadal wouldn't keep it.



Right. I mean it is ridiculous to say Nadal is afraid of big hitters when he has winning h2h's against all of them (except Rosol!)

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I can't believe Nadal has just won another tournament. It really feels like The Twilight Zone....

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU[/quote[/url]]



Get used to it, he is going to win a lot more.

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Post by paulcz on Sun May 19, 2013 9:31 pm

BlueClay wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
Tenez wrote:Actually Paire and JJ played very well and it was not plain sailing for Fed. We know how scared Nadal is of big hitters and he must have been happy it was Berdych instead of JJ.



Yes because we all know Nadal has losing records against big hitters such as Del Potro, Tsonga and Isner. ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 2786941968

Seriously, where is the basis for your comment that Nadal is scared of big hitters? Because of his lone Rosol loss?

I am not a fan of Nadal's style of tennis and I don't believe a word of his injuries over the years but some of you on here go way too far in your Nadal hate and stray too far from reality with your Nadal obvervations.

I too don't think Nadal is afraid of big hitters. It may look like he is perhaps because he stands 4m behind the baseline to receive the serve or keep scrambling all over the court against those shots they hit. But that essentially his game plan and he completely know what he is doing. Like all plans there will be days when they didn't work and some big hitter may blow him off the court ( Soderling RG 09, Tsonga AO, Rosol W12 etc), but the same plan has won him 11 Slams. If there is any game-plan that can win 11 slams, I'm 100% certain being given that results it can produce, almost all the players will happily take it even if some of the fans think it looks cowardice.

Nadal is not coward nor he is afraid of anyone. He is highly disciplined and focused his game and game-plan he very well know what he is doing. I'm not a fan of Nadal nor this game-plan but this is so effective that I don't see why Nadal wouldn't keep it.



Right. I mean it is ridiculous to say Nadal is afraid of big hitters when he has winning h2h's against all of them (except Rosol!)

I can agree up to a point, that that is different playing on clay and hc. But, there are not many big hitters who can do it even on hard courts. Tbh, there is Delpo, very rarely Tsonga and that is it. So atm only Delpo can outhit Nadal on hc and we know how their match at IW went as the first tourney of Nadal on hc.

Players like Isner, Rao, JJ, Rosol can have some flashes with Nadal but no way that Nadal is going to lose to them.

To outplay Nadal, you need the complete game and the perfect focused head. So, it is useless to say who has it.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:32 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Also, before pronouncing him the man to beat, look at the men he actually beat en-route to his ( 7!!!) titles this year: From the top 4, he beat an ill Federer in IW and also match un-fit Federer here in Rome.

We know what happened when he played Nole in Monte Carlo.

I am beginning to think Nole tanked his match against Berdych in order to keep that mental edge over Nadal since his ankle is still not 100% and he did not want to push it in a potential match against Nadal in the semi. I really can't explain the loss any other way.


Nadal is the man to beat are you in denial or something? He has made the finals of the last 8 tournaments he has played and Djokovic has lost early in many of the tournaments he has played in since the AO. Nadal is the man to beat, I am telling you, hate him or not but see the truth.

And Djokovic did not tank in the Berdych match, don't be silly.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 1371890812

Sure it is possible if Djokovic actually gets to Nadal at the FO he may beat him, but I honestly can't count on that happening right now.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun May 19, 2013 9:35 pm

paulcz
To outplay Nadal, you need the complete game and the perfect focused head. So, it is useless to say who has it.

Right, I mean you have a bunch of mental lightweights on the men's tour and that is a big thing you need to beat the top players consistently.

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Post by paulcz on Sun May 19, 2013 9:47 pm

BlueClay wrote:


Nadal is the man to beat are you in denial or something? He has made the finals of the last 8 tournaments he has played and Djokovic has lost early in many of the tournaments he has played in since the AO. Nadal is the man to beat, I am telling you, hate him or not but see the truth.

I am convinced that if Nadal played with Nole when both are 100% healthy and top their shapes and the match would be played on the court with balanced fans and an umpire would stick to the rules then, I see their chances as 90% for Nole and the rest for Nadal. But because I hate "if" and there is so many factors on the court, we must wait for their potential match two weaks or so.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 11:09 pm

luvsports! wrote:courtesy of henman bill.

Djokovic 12,310
Murray 8670
Federer 8000
Nadal 6,895
Ferrer 6,740

Also paire up 10 places to a career high 26.

Somersault


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Post by sphairistike on Sun May 19, 2013 11:09 pm

It was a disappointing final from Fed but I can understand the man. When you pretty much know you are going to lose, as the Nadal who played yesterday showed he was powered up (pun intended) and your own level was progressively going down slightly in the last two matches as you were getting tired of having to play with less rest than the other guy day by day, why would you even bother? He seemed not to care about the match... I know the guy is tough to read, but his body language was more nonchalant than usual and he seemed he could not be bothered... Even his speech at the end said it all. I had a good time here with my family, etc. Even looking at the box neither his wife nor Anacone seemed worried or disappointed or something...

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Post by sphairistike on Sun May 19, 2013 11:15 pm

Veejay wrote:Fed looks finished to me...obviously had less time to recover but still a poor showing for most of the season...I am hoping I am correct cause every time I think he is finished,he proves me completely wrong!

He kinda looks finished but somehow I have some feeling he has something up his sleeve. He seemed to know something, like he could beat Nadal if he wanted to but he'd rather wait for the French Open to show a new secret weapon. Also, I'm always wondering when he'll snap in one of his speeches and say that why would he bother showing good tennis in the final if the organization of the tournament was one of the poorest on tour, with ball boys who were so slow and unorganized, where he got the short straw when it came to match scheduling, etc. The day he does that people might think badly of him, but I would not. I wouldn't think he is a cry baby as the only cry baby in the tennis world is Nadal, as even Peter Bodo alluded to in the article nitb showed last time. Let's just hope for a similar draw at the FO but hopefully this time Nole will get to the SF and then we could get the best final between Nole and Fed!

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 11:17 pm

BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I can't believe Nadal has just won another tournament. It really feels like The Twilight Zone....

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU[/quote[/url]]



Get used to it, he is going to win a lot more.

No he isn't. To use your jargon, Nole owns him and unfortunately still hasn't recovered from his ankle but will very soon.

Unlike Nadal, he actually is really injured (recovering) and is not moaning about it but keeping it quiet.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 11:19 pm

sphairistike wrote:It was a disappointing final from Fed but I can understand the man. When you pretty much know you are going to lose, as the Nadal who played yesterday showed he was powered up (pun intended) and your own level was progressively going down slightly in the last two matches as you were getting tired of having to play with less rest than the other guy day by day, why would you even bother? He seemed not to care about the match... I know the guy is tough to read, but his body language was more nonchalant than usual and he seemed he could not be bothered... Even his speech at the end said it all. I had a good time here with my family, etc. Even looking at the box neither his wife nor Anacone seemed worried or disappointed or something...

As I said before Madrid, clay season for Fed is just a points collection and seeding maintenance exercise.

His target is Wimbledon.


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Post by noleisthebest on Sun May 19, 2013 11:23 pm

BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Also, before pronouncing him the man to beat, look at the men he actually beat en-route to his ( 7!!!) titles this year: From the top 4, he beat an ill Federer in IW and also match un-fit Federer here in Rome.

We know what happened when he played Nole in Monte Carlo.

I am beginning to think Nole tanked his match against Berdych in order to keep that mental edge over Nadal since his ankle is still not 100% and he did not want to push it in a potential match against Nadal in the semi. I really can't explain the loss any other way.


Nadal is the man to beat are you in denial or something? He has made the finals of the last 8 tournaments he has played and Djokovic has lost early in many of the tournaments he has played in since the AO. Nadal is the man to beat, I am telling you, hate him or not but see the truth.

And Djokovic did not tank in the Berdych match, don't be silly.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 1371890812

Sure it is possible if Djokovic actually gets to Nadal at the FO he may beat him, but I honestly can't count on that happening right now.

we'll see about that....it's slams that count and it's been a while since Nadal won one....

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Post by luvsports! on Mon May 20, 2013 12:06 am

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Nitb can I ask what you thought of federer's comment that nole's fh at mp down in us open 11, was a "lucky" shot?

Deffo not his best moment!

He,he...you don't ask easy questions, do you Winking ?

I thought he was quite rattled after that loss and who wouldn't be in his place with two match points on your serve?

The rest of that interview was very interesting, things he said to elaborate "the lucky shot" point were quite an eye-opener into his mindset, in fact. He saw that shot a product of Novak's tennis upbringing and in his eyes it was not "the proper" way: "slapping" the ball, like there's no tomorrow....
I could really see the Swiss in him when he said it. Swiss are a very prim and proper nation, their whole lives there are a continuous build up of little life achievements, there is very very little room for adventure. I am saying this as a caricature or a cliche just to illustrate the point, so don't pin me down on it.

It amazes me that somebody who plays tennis so audaciously like Federer cannot understand that same , albeit a wilder kind type of audacity from Djokovic.

Still, just like every biting interview he gave, however bitter it was to swallow initially, I have always liked and respected Federer's honesty. He has been right 9.5 out of 10.

And if you ask me, of course, that show was not lucky. Novak, as well as the other players hit it quite often. Just that the occasion was quite special. I really loved it, esp as it was the poetical answer to that bad, bad loss Nole suffered from Fed in RG SF.

Great post!
Interesting to hear a novak fan's views on feds in comparison to socal (who hates feds and loves to tear him down) and Murdoch (who is fairly impartial about feds).

I think feds at MP in their wimby semi did the exact same serve and this time novak netted the return, which maybe (to him) provided justification that it was indeed a "lucky" shot. I thought it was a very tactless and ultimately wrong remark to make.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:01 am

noleisthebest wrote:
BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Also, before pronouncing him the man to beat, look at the men he actually beat en-route to his ( 7!!!) titles this year: From the top 4, he beat an ill Federer in IW and also match un-fit Federer here in Rome.

We know what happened when he played Nole in Monte Carlo.

I am beginning to think Nole tanked his match against Berdych in order to keep that mental edge over Nadal since his ankle is still not 100% and he did not want to push it in a potential match against Nadal in the semi. I really can't explain the loss any other way.


Nadal is the man to beat are you in denial or something? He has made the finals of the last 8 tournaments he has played and Djokovic has lost early in many of the tournaments he has played in since the AO. Nadal is the man to beat, I am telling you, hate him or not but see the truth.

And Djokovic did not tank in the Berdych match, don't be silly.ATP 1000: Rome - Page 8 1371890812

Sure it is possible if Djokovic actually gets to Nadal at the FO he may beat him, but I honestly can't count on that happening right now.

we'll see about that....it's slams that count and it's been a while since Nadal won one....

In the past five slams Djokovic has won two and Nadal has won one but Nadal was absent for two of those slams. Do Djokovic's results of two slams to Nadal's one really look that much more impressive to you? It is not like Djokovic has swept the slams again in 2012. I am not seeing where Djokovic's year in 2013 is looking so impressive. Yes he won the AO but his performance has been disappointing after that. He is no Federer in terms of consistency.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:03 am

noleisthebest wrote:
sphairistike wrote:It was a disappointing final from Fed but I can understand the man. When you pretty much know you are going to lose, as the Nadal who played yesterday showed he was powered up (pun intended) and your own level was progressively going down slightly in the last two matches as you were getting tired of having to play with less rest than the other guy day by day, why would you even bother? He seemed not to care about the match... I know the guy is tough to read, but his body language was more nonchalant than usual and he seemed he could not be bothered... Even his speech at the end said it all. I had a good time here with my family, etc. Even looking at the box neither his wife nor Anacone seemed worried or disappointed or something...

As I said before Madrid, clay season for Fed is just a points collection and seeding maintenance exercise.

His target is Wimbledon.


I love Federer but he is not going to win a Challenger event the way he is playing currently let alone Wimbledon.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:09 am

[quote="noleisthebest"]
BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I can't believe Nadal has just won another tournament. It really feels like The Twilight Zone....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU[/quote]



Get used to it, he is going to win a lot more.

No he isn't. To use your jargon, Nole owns him and unfortunately still hasn't recovered from his ankle but will very soon.

Unlike Nadal, he actually is really injured (recovering) and is not moaning about it but keeping it quiet.

LOL at Novak's ankle is badly injured. I don't believe that for a second. The guy is a huge faker and always has been, nothing has changed. Just like Nadal's knees are fine, so is Novak's ankle. Novak does not own Nadal, Nadal is still ahead in the h2h and Nadal has won 3 out of their last 4 meetings. That is ownage to you? You actually think that Novak is going to win every slam in the next year or two? Who is going to be in most of those finals against Novak do you think? So let me get this straight, you don't think Nadal is going to win any more slams and Novak will win all of them in the next two years?

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Post by BlueClay on Mon May 20, 2013 3:12 am

sphairistike wrote:
Veejay wrote:Fed looks finished to me...obviously had less time to recover but still a poor showing for most of the season...I am hoping I am correct cause every time I think he is finished,he proves me completely wrong!

He kinda looks finished but somehow I have some feeling he has something up his sleeve. He seemed to know something, like he could beat Nadal if he wanted to but he'd rather wait for the French Open to show a new secret weapon. Also, I'm always wondering when he'll snap in one of his speeches and say that why would he bother showing good tennis in the final if the organization of the tournament was one of the poorest on tour, with ball boys who were so slow and unorganized, where he got the short straw when it came to match scheduling, etc. The day he does that people might think badly of him, but I would not. I wouldn't think he is a cry baby as the only cry baby in the tennis world is Nadal, as even Peter Bodo alluded to in the article nitb showed last time. Let's just hope for a similar draw at the FO but hopefully this time Nole will get to the SF and then we could get the best final between Nole and Fed!

LOL, now I have heard it all. Federer could not beat Nadal at the FO when Federer was in his prime and now that he has had his worst season since 1999 he is going to beat Nadal at the FO? You have got to be kidding. Federer is NOT winning the FO, he has about a 2 percent chance if that.

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 7:54 am

The physical side, the most important one, is a difficult issue for Fed as he more and more seems very human and clearly unwilling to adopt the "modern means".

But yesterday it was obvious his game was completely overtaken technically and technology ....on clay. You cannot nowadays time and tame a zippy ball like Nadal's with a heavy 90inch racquet strung with half nat gut. It's still ok on a HC or even against anybody else but not versus Nadal who throws balls which have a life of their own.

The issue for Fed is that only Nadal sends him a ball he has problem with. Versus Djoko and Murray he has no problem playing the tennis he knows. He will not always have the energy to rally as much as them but one feels he can win and that the match is often in his racquet. Not against Rafa. This is probably the reason he still plays with his antique tool, especially with WImbledon looming.

I have a strong feeling that Fed will change his racquet after the USO if not after Wimbledon....but in my view it's a bit too late now, especially since he is not keeping in touch with the "diet" science...unlike Ferrer and Haas for instance.

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 10:07 am

Tenez wrote:
But yesterday it was obvious his game was completely overtaken technically and technology ....on clay. You cannot nowadays time and tame a zippy ball like Nadal's with a heavy 90inch racquet strung with half nat gut. It's still ok on a HC or even against anybody else but not versus Nadal who throws balls which have a life of their own .

You say that but Dimitrov pushed Nadal much harder using almost exactly the same racquet setup as Roger, basically a Prostaff 93 instead of Fed's Prostaff 90 - hardly a huge difference when many pros are using 98/100 racquets. Dimitrov like Roger also uses gut/poly hybrid. The problem isn't the racquet, it's the consistency of the swing.

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Post by luvsports! on Mon May 20, 2013 10:48 am

did anyone else notice that feds doesn't look in that good shape physically? As in he looked liked he was getting a belly! :P

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 11:38 am

wilson_nxt wrote:
Tenez wrote:
But yesterday it was obvious his game was completely overtaken technically and technology ....on clay. You cannot nowadays time and tame a zippy ball like Nadal's with a heavy 90inch racquet strung with half nat gut. It's still ok on a HC or even against anybody else but not versus Nadal who throws balls which have a life of their own .

You say that but Dimitrov pushed Nadal much harder using almost exactly the same racquet setup as Roger, basically a Prostaff 93 instead of Fed's Prostaff 90 - hardly a huge difference when many pros are using 98/100 racquets. Dimitrov like Roger also uses gut/poly hybrid. The problem isn't the racquet, it's the consistency of the swing.

Well 93 makes quite a bit of a difference over a 90in racquet. But more importantly Dimi stands further back than Federer and this helps considerably more when facing Nadal...as long as you can cover the ground. Yesterday Fed showed no or very little patience. He knew that he had no choice but standing close and dictate. Dimi covered lots of ground versus Nadal....certainly nor an option for Fed for some reasons.

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 11:42 am

luvsports! wrote:did anyone else notice that feds doesn't look in that good shape physically? As in he looked liked he was getting a belly! :P

Yes I did. He always had a bit of a belly but now it is even more obvious. Yesterday he seemed in no mood to kill himself. But it has to be said that he was improving towards the end as his timing, so important for him, was being tuned.

AsI have said many times, playing Nadal is like playing another sport and one needs exposure to it. In 2011 Djoko's wins over Nadal were made easier by the encounter.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 12:35 pm

Tenez wrote:The physical side, the most important one, is a difficult issue for Fed as he more and more seems very human and clearly unwilling to adopt the "modern means".


I have a strong feeling that Fed will change his racquet after the USO if not after Wimbledon....but in my view it's a bit too late now, especially since he is not keeping in touch with the "diet" science...unlike Ferrer and Haas for instance.

He really did look human in that match and the contrast with Nadal'a almost supernatural physicality couldn't have been more obvious.
It is good to know somebody won't sell.
It was ugly to watch, Nadal has always reminded me of those white pit-bulls who get their teeth into you and lock their jaws before starting the mutilation. It is sheer masochism to watch it, which is why I don't do it very often.
Now with this new racquet, do you think it's possible he may have already used it and tried it on in early round matches?

I can't remember who he played in his first match in Rome ( the one before Simon) but the pace he was able to generate was staggering at times, I struggled to see the ball, that's how fast they were! I have never seen him play like that before.




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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 12:43 pm

luvsports! wrote:did anyone else notice that feds doesn't look in that good shape physically? As in he looked liked he was getting a belly! :P

I thought he looked great!

The "belly" is actually the preventative thermal belt he seems to be wearing for his back.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 12:51 pm

BlueClay wrote:

LOL at Novak's ankle is badly injured. I don't believe that for a second. The guy is a huge faker and always has been, nothing has changed. Just like Nadal's knees are fine, so is Novak's ankle. Novak does not own Nadal, Nadal is still ahead in the h2h and Nadal has won 3 out of their last 4 meetings. That is ownage to you? You actually think that Novak is going to win every slam in the next year or two? Who is going to be in most of those finals against Novak do you think? So let me get this straight, you don't think Nadal is going to win any more slams and Novak will win all of them in the next two years?

Yes, as soon as Novak's ankle gets to 100%, Nadal has no chance. Nole has a tried and tested recipe for Nadal, I am surprised you can't see it.

Even Ferrer nearly beat Nadal twice recently with his serve-less game.

Nole completely owns Nadal in every way, so you can cheer up now Cool

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 12:54 pm

Prediction time:

I reckon Nadal is not going to be in Novak's half in RG!

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 1:29 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Prediction time:

I reckon Nadal is not going to be in Novak's half in RG!

The draw is on Frid am I guess.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 1:43 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Prediction time:

I reckon Nadal is not going to be in Novak's half in RG!

The draw is on Frid am I guess.

You're right!

This weather has really disorientated me, it's hard to believe it's the end of May....and RG starting in less than a week!

It's good Nole's got himself off the radar before it, I have a good feeling about it smiley

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Tenez wrote: Well 93 makes quite a bit of a difference over a 90in racquet. But more importantly Dimi stands further back than Federer and this helps considerably more when facing Nadal...as long as you can cover the ground. Yesterday Fed showed no or very little patience. He knew that he had no choice but standing close and dictate. Dimi covered lots of ground versus Nadal....certainly nor an option for Fed for some reasons.
3 more sqin makes hardly any difference to the sweetspot.
When hitting at 3000rpm the ball moves on racquet strings about 4cm.
3sqin is around 1800sq mm's - so for a typical racquet sweetspot you're maybe extending the hitting zone by 2-3mm more.
Which is negligible given how the ball moves 40mm on the strings anyway.
In Dimitrov/Federer's case, its also the same strings - gut/Lux.
The other points you make don't concern technology.
As said, the problem is Federer's brittle technique under extreme pressure, not his racquet.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 1:54 pm

wilson_nxt wrote:
Tenez wrote: Well 93 makes quite a bit of a difference over a 90in racquet. But more importantly Dimi stands further back than Federer and this helps considerably more when facing Nadal...as long as you can cover the ground. Yesterday Fed showed no or very little patience. He knew that he had no choice but standing close and dictate. Dimi covered lots of ground versus Nadal....certainly nor an option for Fed for some reasons.
3 more sqin makes hardly any difference to the sweetspot.
When hitting at 3000rpm the ball moves on racquet strings about 4cm.
3sqin is around 1800sq mm's - so for a typical racquet sweetspot you're maybe extending the hitting zone by 2-3mm more.
Which is negligible given how the ball moves 40mm on the strings anyway.
In Dimitrov/Federer's case, its also the same strings - gut/Lux.
The other points you make don't concern technology.
As said, the problem is Federer's brittle technique under extreme pressure, not his racquet.

I wish people would stop comparing Dimi to Fed! Grr The only thing they have in common is the SBH. Dimi belongs to the modern group of players that need courts redesigned.
Dimi is playing cowboy tennis at the moment: it's all over the place!
Obviously, slow conditions are encouraging it ...

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Post by Tenez on Mon May 20, 2013 2:03 pm

wilson_nxt wrote:
3 more sqin makes hardly any difference to the sweetspot.
When hitting at 3000rpm the ball moves on racquet strings about 4cm.
3sqin is around 1800sq mm's - so for a typical racquet sweetspot you're maybe extending the hitting zone by 2-3mm more.
Which is negligible given how the ball moves 40mm on the strings anyway.
In Dimitrov/Federer's case, its also the same strings - gut/Lux.
The other points you make don't concern technology.
As said, the problem is Federer's brittle technique under extreme pressure, not his racquet.

I am sorry but you are wrong again like you were when you were talking about Fed's western FH grip.

3inch do count cause is 100inch is quite a change from 95. so 3 sqin make some tangible difference, especially if you take the ball that early on clay where the bounce is never too sure. SO try to understand instead of trying to argue at all cost.

The point about taking the ball early/late is of huge importance. Fed times teh ball much better than any other guy on tour and this is why he can afford to take the ball that early and this is also why he is the only SHBH slam holder on tour and the last other player to win a slam with a SHBH goes back to 2004....and that was certainly not again Nadal's spiny balls.

The fact is Dimi's technique and position forces him to stand to much back and has not got the quick hands of Federer (nor Gasquet actually) so against Rafa it is not problem as it is all about running and power but against quicker players Dimi is not there yet...even if he is a very interesting prospect.

Yesterday it was obvious Federer had the wrong weapons on court. His shots were still miles better than Nadal's when they landed on teh court, the problem is every single shot of his is way too risky nowadays...and that is not down to his technique as much as the fact that Nadal hits the ball with an energy and power unseen before he arrived. Fed'stechnique is pretty good versus all other players.

Sampras said he made the mistake not to switch to bigger frame in his late career and I believe he said that of Federer too. Federer may have very good reasons to keep what he has...as long as he doesn;t face Nadal..but against Nadal he is at a clear disadvantage with it. I am not saying he woudl win with a larger frame but it woudl certainly be a bit closer.

And finally the Nadal Dimi played was not quite the same Fed faced yesterday. I doubt he woudl have done much better.

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Post by droogle on Mon May 20, 2013 2:16 pm

I think Fed looks a little out of shape. He's never been 'athletic' and has never needed to be since his power comes from timing and the fluidity and feel achieved through being relaxed. A bit of flab here and there has never hindered him, but he's starting to look a bit chunky and slow on his feet. Because of his build: broad shoulders and big rib cage, a bit of weight gain can look like muscle/pecs. . . but I think it's fat. I'm guessing that by playing less he's in danger of putting on weight. . . Ronnie O Sullivan can take a year off but snooker is a different, er, ball game.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:19 pm

Hi and welcome droogle!

remember you as a Fed fan from the old bbc 606 days Cool

I'm still the same old noleisthebest diva

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Post by droogle on Mon May 20, 2013 2:26 pm

Hello again nitb,
Yep, I've kept an eye on this forum but have refrained from posting. . . mostly as once I start I find myself spending far too much time doing so. Oops.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:29 pm

droogle wrote:Hello again nitb,
Yep, I've kept an eye on this forum but have refrained from posting. . . mostly as once I start I find myself spending far too much time doing so. Oops.

I've given up on that one, comforting myself with the thought there are worse things in life I could be wasting time on....so am still happily floating in the tennis bubble Somersault

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:31 pm

What's your take on Fed 2013 edition?

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Post by wilson_nxt on Mon May 20, 2013 2:37 pm

Federer hasnt got a Western grip?
The change from 90 to 100 is huge, given the sweetspot is probably extended by some 30%. 95 to 100 much less so, there are loads of tour players using 95 racquets. Not so many at 100 where control starts to get lost.
I'm not disputing he needs to make a change. But to 95, not 93. That would add another 2-3mm giving him around 10% more clean area. 10% is a lot at their level. Federer demo'ed the 93 anyway and didn't want to make the change so presume he couldn't tell much difference.
The point about 93 comparison is that its not JUST about the racquet. Yes, Dimi is a different player to Federer. The modern breed who didn't learn tennis under fast conditions so doesn't instinctively sit at the baseline. But even so Dimi shows the smaller racquet can still work if you adjust your court positioning back a bit.
Yes Federer shots are much cleaner than Nadal's with less margin for error, agree there. However they play different games and tennis of course is about who puts the ball in the court last, not necessarily best. Sometimes it seems to me Federer wants to be too esoteric, he stubbornly refuses to change his gameplans, racquets and court positioning when he probably needs to change all of them against Nadal and Djokovic. He's also nowhere near as big as he was back in 2003-6, a lot of muscle has been lost which means he cant sustain consistency the same to live with these modern physical beasts. Against Nadal he's changed nothing and we see the same results for 5-6 years now. Which is frustrating for us Federer fans! Grrr. He's expecting different results from the same methods - the definition of madness!

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:43 pm

wilson_nxt wrote:
Yes Federer shots are much cleaner than Nadal's with less margin for error, agree there. However they play different games and tennis of course is about who puts the ball in the court last, not necessarily best. Sometimes it seems to me Federer wants to be too esoteric, he stubbornly refuses to change his gameplans, racquets and court positioning when he probably needs to change all of them against Nadal and Djokovic. He's also nowhere near as big as he was back in 2003-6, a lot of muscle has been lost which means he cant sustain consistency the same to live with these modern physical beasts. Against Nadal he's changed nothing and we see the same results for 5-6 years now. Which is frustrating for us Federer fans! Grrr. He's expecting different results from the same methods - the definition of madness!


I call it mad talent. People in possession of it often think they can do anything. And they can.

But Tenez is right, playing Nadal is a different sport and it was no more obvious than in Fedal matchup on dry clay like it was yesterday.
The worst thing was that Nadal didn't even need to extend rallies too much in order to win, so he appeared stronger than I think he actually was/is.
Which is where my hope for Novak beating him in RG lies. Provided they play the wretched match in ONE DAY!!!!! Angry

I also don't think Federer needs to change anything against Djokovic, he is still able to play his attacking game no problem against him.


Last edited by noleisthebest on Mon May 20, 2013 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by droogle on Mon May 20, 2013 2:44 pm

nitb:
I think the interesting thing about Fed was how he had such an amazing winning streak in 2012 whilst always looking fragile. There was clearly a lot of work going on behind the scenes and somehow he managed to maintain a consistent narrow lead whilst never looking properly dominant. Wimbledon was a peculiar phenomenon; he looked appalling in some rounds and somehow overcame his back problems exactly when he needed to to beat Djoko and Murray. But I think that the idea that by reducing his schedule he can put less strain on his body and continue to get results is a fallacy and marks the end of his career, and that's what we're seeing in 2013. It's just not possible to maintain form and fitness whilst playing less, so he either aggravates the back problem or loses form and fitness.
So he plays casual tennis and beats most players, but I don't see how he'll have the form for the slams.

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