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BlueClay...where are you?

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BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 Empty Re: BlueClay...where are you?

Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Except playing with Nole, I do not see anybody else with whom Nadal would struggle mentally.

Paul, for the 1000 times, That's because against anybody else, Nadal woudl be the fitter player!!!!

Ten, no for bigger amount. We have discussed so many times in tennis community. I have tennis analyses, unfortunately in Czech language done by tennis experts ( I have already put it here a couple of times) and stamina was not even mentioned as a main advantage for Nole. That does not mean that it does not help to Nole as it would to everybody else.

Analysis by tennis expert is one thing but what everybody saw, including the simple observer, is that before his gluten free diet Djoko was consistently losing his close (and not so close) matches versus Nadal and Federer. After that diet, which gave him great stamina, he won everything.

Agree, I would not believe any analyses without seeing it on my eyes. But to support the facts you need to use statistics from the matches. As my job is finance, which also have a lot common with statistics. And statistics does not lie. And Nole's statistics shows distinctly that Nole has improved his game as nobody else on the tour since 2011. His ball placing and positioning, serve placing and speed, return positioning and the ball length and pace, net approaches, volleys and net winning ratio. Nole has improved actually in all game areas. That speaks very clearly. Stamina is just a base on which clear Nole's improvents stand. Without any doubts.


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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:As you say to hit shots aggressively and consistently thats is exactly what Stan does really misses in his game. His FH is under average in top 50 imo. With FH the game starts and ends, definitely.

Consistently enough to win sets v Djoko..that is talent but on those slow courts, Djoko forced the long rallies taking the edge off Stan....once again it is Djoko's stamina that made teh difference not his shot making ability...certainly not against Stan.

I am afraid, but seeing Djoko's BH's slice, I am pretty convinced that Djoko would never had had the talent to be nearly as consistent as Stan with a SHBH.

Nole is absolutely different league than Stan,

I saw some Stan matches, he has fighting spirit and great SHBH, nice character. When Stan has his day and Nole is poor, then the game can be close, but that is it. SHBH substantially favors plying slice against DHBH. But Nole is absolutely dominant in matches with Stan. He is much more versatile player, with better feeling and technical skills on the court. I saw Stan playing with Berd at DC in Switzerland and he was not able to play FH over net more than 3 times in a row. That does not have anything with stamina. It is hand-eye coordination, a lack of timing, a poor concentration. Nole is two levels far than him. Slices are not powerful shots, to judge a player on that shot is incorrect. Many players say an tha is also my opinion that Nole's DHBH is the best BH on the tour ever been. Absolutely brilliant.


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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:34 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Except playing with Nole, I do not see anybody else with whom Nadal would struggle mentally.

Paul, for the 1000 times, That's because against anybody else, Nadal woudl be the fitter player!!!!

Nadal is fitter than Novak.
Murray is fitter than Novak.
Federer is as fit if not fitter than Novak.

So how does Novak beat Nadal being the least fit of the 4?

The questions are : how come Djoko wins twice as many long rallies as Nadal and Murray?

Once again, Nole as nobody else is able due to his early ball hitting and the front positioning to take initiative on the court and push out an opponent from the comfort zone. It is done by incredible eye-hand coordination, a brilliant concentration, an excellent movement.

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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:The game reading is directly connected with the game pattern. Due to that Nadal makes up the game through Fed's BH, that is pretty easy for Nadal to react even when he stands three meters behind the BL. Fed can not practically push out Nadal from his comfort zone, which Nole clearly does. Although Fed plays faster and his positioning is more in the court, he is not able to push out Nadal more. When Fed gets frustrated his BH is off and starts playing slices, then that is the end. Nadal starts to dictate the game and Fed does not catch his BH. Then Nadal's timing of these slices is excellent and crushes him with a delight.

Fed has an excellent record against LHers, even v Verdasco who hammers the ball on Fed's BH. So the difficulty Fed has when meeting Nadal is the fact that Nadal's ball is much heavier, and spinnier.

If you provide lower bounce courts to Fed or (a Nadal that has not the ususal "slam" energy), Fed handles the ball much better and will beat Nadal even more easily than Djoko who has no choice but rallying endlessly with him.

Under the right conditions for Fed, he beats Nadal more convincingly than Djoko. Don't you agree?



Problem is the tour has slowed everything down to allow Nadal more time to inject that bloody spin and makes Fedal finals possible.

You mean that on ultra speed surface, let us say on the carpet with longer fibres, that Fed would win more convincingly than Nole. I would not say and it is due to a reason that Nole is much more better returner than Fed and Nole second serve is about the same level with Fed atm. Nadal wins his serve more comfortably with Fed than with Nole. Current Nadal serves very well, his kick serve into BH side is Nole able to return as nobody else. I have had headache to see Fed with Nadal for 5 years.

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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:48 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Nole will always profit on clay and on BO5 matches from his better weight index [heigh/weight] especially against Nadal and Murray.

Hoorah you recognise that Djoko is fitter over the long ralliies. Not sure about Djoko being lighter than Fed though. He is one inch taller and that makes a big difference. It's true that some products nowadays can help burn all the fat though. I would not take the stats on the ATP site about weight at face value.

If he did not play so proactively and dominantly on the court, his fitness would not help him at all. Many Spain and South Americans are so slim and fit, but their game on the court is "waiting" for a ball. So they are waiting and then running out of steam early.

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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:01 pm

SR wrote:
paulcz wrote:Except playing with Nole, I do not see anybody else with whom Nadal would struggle mentally.

Paul, I don't get why you see Djoko the only one to cause nadal mental problem.

The best players always say that the top players differ from the other just by mental side (focus on the game) and intelligence. Nadal plays very powerful tennis and we need to say that he worked out the moonballing to an absolute extreme. I do not think that somebody else will ever play similar crap in future. There was nobody on the tour who was able to face him, respectively to his heavy moonballs. All of a sudden there appears a slim tall guy who is able to do it. Without Nole he would easily win practically everything and overcome all records in tennis for sure. Can you imagine how 2011 year affected Nadal and his team. Nadal looks as somebody else, he lost his confidence, he is not able to serve out the set, he is shaken just a mention that he is going to play with Nole. Thanks God for Nole, he is a miracle.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:05 pm

Nole has slain the Beast and saved tennis from a complete disaster Bubbly
I shudder to think where the game would be now if there was no 2011. We'd have two year ranking, 55 seconds rule between the points....Wimbledon would be played on green clay....

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:17 pm

But as they say "The perfect is the enemy of the good" and once you get spoilt with the perfect....Winking

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Post by paulcz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:25 pm

noleisthebest wrote:But as they say "The perfect is the enemy of the good" and once you get spoilt with the perfect....BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

we need to be thankful for every day to be here these days BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:28 pm

SR wrote:Tenez, likewise, I don't get why you see nadal fitter than every other player except Djoko

Because he is, isn't he? Who do you see fitter than him? Sure other players in a good day can beat him, like they can beat Djoko actually, but in a slam? over 5 sets? Who is going to beat those guys (Djoko, Nadal or Murray)?

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:37 pm

paulcz wrote:Agree, I would not believe any analyses without seeing it on my eyes. But to support the facts you need to use statistics from the matches. As my job is finance, which also have a lot common with statistics. And statistics does not lie. And Nole's statistics shows distinctly that Nole has improved his game as nobody else on the tour since 2011. His ball placing and positioning, serve placing and speed, return positioning and the ball length and pace, net approaches, volleys and net winning ratio. Nole has improved actually in all game areas. That speaks very clearly. Stamina is just a base on which clear Nole's improvents stand. Without any doubts.

Not sure where you got those stats from? Do you have the stats about Murray's improvements? Raonic, Tomic, dimi, Federer and Nadal?

Yes I know that in Finance they can make risky loans, like subprimes, look attractive investment but in the real world, we know that stamina is everything is tennis. Dimi's FH is better than Djoko's in the first 3 shot rally....but not as good at the end of a 20 shot rally.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:41 pm

paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:As you say to hit shots aggressively and consistently thats is exactly what Stan does really misses in his game. His FH is under average in top 50 imo. With FH the game starts and ends, definitely.

Consistently enough to win sets v Djoko..that is talent but on those slow courts, Djoko forced the long rallies taking the edge off Stan....once again it is Djoko's stamina that made teh difference not his shot making ability...certainly not against Stan.

I am afraid, but seeing Djoko's BH's slice, I am pretty convinced that Djoko would never had had the talent to be nearly as consistent as Stan with a SHBH.

Nole is absolutely different league than Stan

For 2 sets the world agreed that Stan was in a different league....until Stamina came into effect. On faster courts Stan woudl probably be ranked higher.

I maintain that in a year or so, the younger generation will take over the legs and lungs one.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:46 pm

paulcz wrote:Once again, Nole as nobody else is able due to his early ball hitting and the front positioning to take initiative on the court and push out an opponent from the comfort zone. It is done by incredible eye-hand coordination, a brilliant concentration, an excellent movement.

He stands closer to the baseline compared to Nadal but not against other players. If that was teh case he woudl not be the player who covers the most ground!!!! That are stats you can check and analyse. Winking

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:54 pm

paulcz wrote:You mean that on ultra speed surface, let us say on the carpet with longer fibres, that Fed would win more convincingly than Nole. I would not say and it is due to a reason that Nole is much more better returner than Fed and Nole second serve is about the same level with Fed atm. Nadal wins his serve more comfortably with Fed than with Nole. Current Nadal serves very well, his kick serve into BH side is Nole able to return as nobody else. I have had headache to see Fed with Nadal for 5 years.

Ok...here you compare returners of different generations. Federer learnt to return the great SVers of the past with nat gut. Back then you had no choice but stand close to the base line and block the return back to the server. You were doomed if like Djoko you were standing back and wack the ball back cause nat gut would not allow you to put safety and pace in your returns.

Personally I have never seen someone return as well as Fed with a SHBH. Djoko would be terrible with it too. It helps him temendously to have 2 hands on the racket and more so to have this new technology including this 100inch frame.

You cannot ask Federer to return the modern way as he grew up in very different conds. I don;t know how Fed woudl have done had he learnt tennis 6 years later, but I can clearly see that Djoko with his strange style would have really struggled with a SHBH....and the new generation will prove soon the limitations of this legs and lungs generation.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:58 pm

paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Nole will always profit on clay and on BO5 matches from his better weight index [heigh/weight] especially against Nadal and Murray.

Hoorah you recognise that Djoko is fitter over the long ralliies. Not sure about Djoko being lighter than Fed though. He is one inch taller and that makes a big difference. It's true that some products nowadays can help burn all the fat though. I would not take the stats on the ATP site about weight at face value.

If he did not play so proactively and dominantly on the court, his fitness would not help him at all. Many Spain and South Americans are so slim and fit, but their game on the court is "waiting" for a ball. So they are waiting and then running out of steam early.

Slim and fit is one thing, the number of red cells in your blood is another and in fact the determining factor when it comes to stamina.

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Post by SayonaRa on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 am

Tenez wrote:
SR wrote:Tenez, likewise, I don't get why you see nadal fitter than every other player except Djoko

Because he is, isn't he? Who do you see fitter than him? Sure other players in a good day can beat him, like they can beat Djoko actually, but in a slam? over 5 sets? Who is going to beat those guys (Djoko, Nadal or Murray)?

No he ain't. Call it fitness/or whatever, Murray beat him in the semi USO'08; delpo beat him the following year semi US0'09 IN STRAIGHTS 62-62-62; Murray beat him again AO'10 (Mr. Fitness RETIRED!). If he had not chickened out of AO, a bunch of top-tiered guys like Tsonga could've crashed him.

Now you know that Fed beat Djoko FO'l11 and again W'12 before anguishing Murray in the finals. So I standby my view, it's not ALL about fitness. Not even for the top four. BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

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Post by SayonaRa on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:42 am

Oops, let me revise that. Yes, previously, for some *strange* reasons, he was the fittest during the clay season. But the rest of the year he's Jello, relatively. So T, I half-agree with you. BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 364988687

His "fitness" on clay now is questionable for the first time in his career. Just a matter of time others beside Djoko can topple him on clay too, I think.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:54 pm

Well it's obvious that on relatively faster surfaces, fitness plays a lesser role. This is why pre-2007 if not 2010 Nadal could not do much on tour outside clay.

What I am saying is that nowadays, it takes a monumental effort from players to beat those top 3 physical players. And all the mental strain is on those attacking players to pull winners after winners to get past them.

Wawrinka, Tsonga, even Seppi can get close...but no cigar so far.

On a new laid grass where the ball doesn't bounce much, Nadal will always have trouble and there I agree the physique plays a lesser role. But even there, they managed to provide big balls to give those physical players more chace to retrieve the ball and force longer rallies.

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:10 pm

SR wrote:Oops, let me revise that. Yes, previously, for some *strange* reasons, he was the fittest during the clay season. But the rest of the year he's Jello, relatively. So T, I half-agree with you. BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 364988687

His "fitness" on clay now is questionable for the first time in his career. Just a matter of time others beside Djoko can topple him on clay too, I think.

You know, Ten just focuses to look on legs and forgets a bit on the game BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:As you say to hit shots aggressively and consistently thats is exactly what Stan does really misses in his game. His FH is under average in top 50 imo. With FH the game starts and ends, definitely.

Consistently enough to win sets v Djoko..that is talent but on those slow courts, Djoko forced the long rallies taking the edge off Stan....once again it is Djoko's stamina that made teh difference not his shot making ability...certainly not against Stan.

I am afraid, but seeing Djoko's BH's slice, I am pretty convinced that Djoko would never had had the talent to be nearly as consistent as Stan with a SHBH.

Nole is absolutely different league than Stan

For 2 sets the world agreed that Stan was in a different league....until Stamina came into effect. On faster courts Stan woudl probably be ranked higher.

I maintain that in a year or so, the younger generation will take over the legs and lungs one.

If I am right Nole leads on hc their h2h 8 to 1, the matches are spread since 2006 or so. It is so one-sided as hardly anything. Stan's grandparents are Czechs and I root for him, but that is it. His game is too eratic to contest with the best.

I see that your logic would also accept that Benneteau is better player than Fed. And Ben has equal match tally on hc with Fed. That one is more interisting and something to think about.

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:35 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Once again, Nole as nobody else is able due to his early ball hitting and the front positioning to take initiative on the court and push out an opponent from the comfort zone. It is done by incredible eye-hand coordination, a brilliant concentration, an excellent movement.

He stands closer to the baseline compared to Nadal but not against other players. If that was teh case he woudl not be the player who covers the most ground!!!! That are stats you can check and analyse. BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

Ten, compare matches with Nole against Murray and Murray against Fed at AO13. Nole played with better positiong than Fed. It resulted that Fed was not able to catch the game with Murray and played so many slices even defensive moonballs.

Nole's positioning on the return is one of the most offensive on the tour atm. Fed stands more back behind Nole on return.

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:40 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Once again, Nole as nobody else is able due to his early ball hitting and the front positioning to take initiative on the court and push out an opponent from the comfort zone. It is done by incredible eye-hand coordination, a brilliant concentration, an excellent movement.

He stands closer to the baseline compared to Nadal but not against other players. If that was teh case he woudl not be the player who covers the most ground!!!! That are stats you can check and analyse. BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

Surely not on his average match. When playing with Feru, Berd, Simon, Gasquet, Almagro, Nole is usually more dominant player on the court. If you have these statistics of Nole' running distance with his opponent, that I would appreciate.

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Post by luvsports! on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:53 pm

i know its not related.
BUT I GAVE IN MY DISSERTATION TODAY!

WAHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO diva

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:11 pm

luvsports! wrote:i know its not related.
BUT I GAVE IN MY DISSERTATION TODAY!

WAHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3559488474

Congratulation LS BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3157886161 I also did sometime in the past.

What was your theme?

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Post by paulcz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:28 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:Agree, I would not believe any analyses without seeing it on my eyes. But to support the facts you need to use statistics from the matches. As my job is finance, which also have a lot common with statistics. And statistics does not lie. And Nole's statistics shows distinctly that Nole has improved his game as nobody else on the tour since 2011. His ball placing and positioning, serve placing and speed, return positioning and the ball length and pace, net approaches, volleys and net winning ratio. Nole has improved actually in all game areas. That speaks very clearly. Stamina is just a base on which clear Nole's improvents stand. Without any doubts.

Not sure where you got those stats from? Do you have the stats about Murray's improvements? Raonic, Tomic, dimi, Federer and Nadal?

Yes I know that in Finance they can make risky loans, like subprimes, look attractive investment but in the real world, we know that stamina is everything is tennis. Dimi's FH is better than Djoko's in the first 3 shot rally....but not as good at the end of a 20 shot rally.

I take the statistics from Czech tennis magazines and from websites especially. I have put the statistics from GS matches between Nole and Nadal in our the most popular thread - Novak Djokovic.

You know the improvements of players ranked higher than 20 are often as a sudden gust. I do not have so much time to focus on players ranked lower than 20, even I actually focus on TOP4 + Berd (I know too much his backround not to be interested). Absolutely different improvement is when you move from 4 to 2 and then to number 1, that is something exceptional.

I saw Dimi's game quite enough to know that he is going up on ranking and has good years ahead of him. His game is pretty good. His weakness will be focus and not strong mentality. Not sure if he can play more aggressive game from his SHBH. I am convinced that he will struggle with big hitters on the tour. But he plays really nice tennis.

Rao and Tomic, I do not like neither of them game wise, but Rao is much nicer character.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:17 pm

paulcz wrote:If I am right Nole leads on hc their h2h 8 to 1, the matches are spread since 2006 or so. It is so one-sided as hardly anything. Stan's grandparents are Czechs and I root for him, but that is it. His game is too eratic to contest with the best.

Yes I agree he is erratic and what makes that consistency...if not legs and lungs? Provide a faster surface with shorter rallies and that consistency will improve greatly.


I see that your logic would also accept that Benneteau is better player than Fed. And Ben has equal match tally on hc with Fed. That one is more interisting and something to think about.

No, there are reasons why some H2Hs might not tell the whole story. Benneteau is a very good player but he was also lucky to pick Federer in his worse moments...a bit like Murray in his first encounters with Federer (2007/8). The difference with Stan and Djoko is that they often had tight matches and that Djoko's legs and lungs almost always made the difference.

To me Djoko is just a better version than Hewitt. He will never be remembered for his shots...and you know that.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:54 pm

Tenez wrote:
To me Djoko is just a better version than Hewitt. He will never be remembered for his shots...and you know that.

Oh T!!!!!
Although I know where you are coming from, I would like to believe that Nole will not be remembered as a better version of Hewitt.
I really do believe that inside him lives quite an aggressive spirit that will eventually formulate itself through his game fully.
His problem from the start was the lack of a weapon-calibre forehand, which he compensated with the rest of his game. He has been working on it and there has been quite a bit of change, and that's particularly visible when he plays Nadal. I am very excited about the 25 sec rule and look forward to seeing how it affects all players. From what I understand, slams have an even stricter 20 sec rule, but have not yet made their stand on saying whether they were going to enforce it like ATP. Would be fantastic if they did.

Back to Nole, his story is far from finished, and I'll wait for it to end before passing any such judgements.

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:56 am

Tenez wrote:
To me Djoko is just a better version than Hewitt. He will never be remembered for his shots...and you know that.

For me Nole represents the most complete/versatile on atp tour ever been, with the toughest mentality, best move and fighting spirit and surely the best backhand ever.

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:I see that your logic would also accept that Benneteau is better player than Fed. And Ben has equal match tally on hc with Fed. That one is more interisting and something to think about.

No, there are reasons why some H2Hs might not tell the whole story. Benneteau is a very good player but he was also lucky to pick Federer in his worse moments...a bit like Murray in his first encounters with Federer (2007/8). The difference with Stan and Djoko is that they often had tight matches and that Djoko's legs and lungs almost always made the difference.

I was not correct, Ben leads their H2H on hc 2:1. Your logic is a bit defective. In one case you claim that Nole/Stan is a tough match, when Nole leads their h2h in BO3 5:1 and re Fed/Ben, when talented Fed lose h2h in BO3 1:2. So if Stan is erratic, then Fed is even worse case due to his "bigger" talent. Does it go talent against being erratic, surely yes.

Ten, you know pretty well that if Nole is going to take it and does not underestimate a match, then Stan is practically without a chance. If you do not see it, then keep open eyes or just reduce drinking BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 1071211947

Maybe you thought that Stan' s chance would increase if they play only in two sets or rather just one set. Still very poor chance for Stan. Even if they play only till 3 games, Nole would take it at least 80%, I am sure. Just to play till two single points then their chances are nearly pretty equal BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 123628122

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Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:50 pm

paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
To me Djoko is just a better version than Hewitt. He will never be remembered for his shots...and you know that.

For me Nole represents the most complete/versatile on atp tour ever been, with the toughest mentality, best move and fighting spirit and surely the best backhand ever.

I would say Nole has the best stamina/shot formula on those slow conds. But 80% is stamina, and 20% shots. His mind rests on his stamina.

And certainly not the best BH. Far from it actually.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:22 pm

paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:I see that your logic would also accept that Benneteau is better player than Fed. And Ben has equal match tally on hc with Fed. That one is more interisting and something to think about.

No, there are reasons why some H2Hs might not tell the whole story. Benneteau is a very good player but he was also lucky to pick Federer in his worse moments...a bit like Murray in his first encounters with Federer (2007/8). The difference with Stan and Djoko is that they often had tight matches and that Djoko's legs and lungs almost always made the difference.

I was not correct, Ben leads their H2H on hc 2:1. Your logic is a bit defective. In one case you claim that Nole/Stan is a tough match, when Nole leads their h2h in BO3 5:1 and re Fed/Ben, when talented Fed lose h2h in BO3 1:2. So if Stan is erratic, then Fed is even worse case due to his "bigger" talent. Does it go talent against being erratic, surely yes.

But 2:1 is not enough information to draw any conclusion...bar the faact that we all know Fed had problems on his 2 losses to Ben.

The Stan v Nole match is different cause Nole was fit enough to go all the way and win that slam. So no excuse there. If you disregards key external factors on such small stats (3 matches), then it;s not your logic that is defective, it;s your impartiality actually.

I look at players and their games to make up my mind, not stats after the match. The game says it all for me. I am not surprised that Nole has a much better record than Stan...under today's conds. BUt before their AO matches, I knew that Stan had the game to trouble Djoko and the match simply proved it. When I watch Benneteau v Fed, I know that it;s done to Fed. Even with a bad back he managed to beat Ben at Wimbledon and even inflicted a 2 and 3 weeks ago.

The information I get when watching Stan v Nole is what everybody sees. STan has by far the more aggressive shots, the more natural tennis. We can also see that Nole made a great job of "containing" Stan's shot ability...but you cannot deny that the vast majority of the crowd and most tennis posters were for Stan cause he is the one who provided the spectacle.

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:07 pm

paulcz wrote:
luvsports! wrote:i know its not related.
BUT I GAVE IN MY DISSERTATION TODAY!

WAHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3559488474

Congratulation LS BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3157886161 I also did sometime in the past.

What was your theme?

cheers paulcz Big Grin so happy!!!!

outline and evaluate preventative measures to combat doping in cycling.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Well done LS!!!! Applause
I remember those days....was so euphoric walking down the High Street, munching on a bar of fruit& nut chocolate my dad gave me as a present.
And that was it.

Throwing a funky party in to celebrate?

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:59 pm

Cheers buddy!!! Big Grin awww haha great stuff nitb!!! Big Grin
I do love the parents so much, wish i could hug them for all their amazing help, hardest thing ive ever done ever!!! massive sigh of relief.

WHen i gave it in I couldn't believe it. "Is that it? Is it over???" (he says trembling). "Yes calm down dear, that is it, it is finished smiley"

I pitched forward onto the desk, was just awesome.

Had to drop some books off at the library and went in the lift... had a few seconds, then yelled out in triumph, let all the anger, frustration and relief out Big Grin

Went to my favourite night club last night, house party tonight, meal with mates 2mo!!! Big Grin









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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:15 pm

Happy times, happy times, happy apple tango times LS! Big Grin

Enjoy every second of it, you have worked hard and it's time to party now...and don't even dare think about Tomorrow....just yet.

Once you've "cleaned" cycling from doping as per your thesis, please do the same in tennis, you'll have full support from OTF!


Last edited by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:01 pm

haha great comment nitb Big Grin cheers.

Still have 2 assignments due but taking some time off until sat to recharge the batteries smiley

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Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:12 pm

Again, well done LS.

It's a tough subject you chose cause though we know doping is rife, there is hardly any proof and to make things worse, rules and regulations (helped by lawyers) can easily blurr the definition of "doping".

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:41 pm

cheers tenez.
i agree with all your comments !

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:56 pm

luvsports! wrote:
paulcz wrote:
luvsports! wrote:i know its not related.
BUT I GAVE IN MY DISSERTATION TODAY!

WAHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3559488474

Congratulation LS BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 3157886161 I also did sometime in the past.

What was your theme?

cheers paulcz BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 364988687 so happy!!!!

outline and evaluate preventative measures to combat doping in cycling.

Cheers LS,

yeah, you actually mentioned it, that is great. That is much nicer topic than mine was. I had something about a merger of middle European stock exchanges. So, we need to have well educated posters here , so I wish you the best for your graduation.

Then we will need your help many times here. I hope that you put in a hint about Mori 7 months holidays, which does not happen even in cycling BlueClay...where are you? - Page 2 4006036031

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:06 pm

Tenez wrote:
paulcz wrote:
Tenez wrote:
To me Djoko is just a better version than Hewitt. He will never be remembered for his shots...and you know that.

For me Nole represents the most complete/versatile on atp tour ever been, with the toughest mentality, best move and fighting spirit and surely the best backhand ever.

I would say Nole has the best stamina/shot formula on those slow conds. But 80% is stamina, and 20% shots. His mind rests on his stamina.

And certainly not the best BH. Far from it actually.

Nole is better player on middle/faster hc, this surface suits his game surely more.

Nole as only one on the tour is able to hit through Nadal from his BH, what more valuable prove you need. I have not seen BH played with better timing and feeling and with such a control. Many players consider his BH as the best ever.

Your view on that is quite opposite to the players and tennis experts and I know that you wrote that Nole's BH is not within TOP10 and FH is an average. Then something is weird. I honestly think that your criteria to asses shots are not based on real efficiency, but on work of art.

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Post by luvsports! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:15 pm

haha yesssss my czech bru!

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:28 pm

Tenez wrote:

No, there are reasons why some H2Hs might not tell the whole story. Benneteau is a very good player but he was also lucky to pick Federer in his worse moments...a bit like Murray in his first encounters with Federer (2007/8). The difference with Stan and Djoko is that they often had tight matches and that Djoko's legs and lungs almost always made the difference.

But 2:1 is not enough information to draw any conclusion...bar the faact that we all know Fed had problems on his 2 losses to Ben.

The Stan v Nole match is different cause Nole was fit enough to go all the way and win that slam. So no excuse there. If you disregards key external factors on such small stats (3 matches), then it;s not your logic that is defective, it;s your impartiality actually.

Muster won a match with Becker with a broken foot bone on clay. I do not like taking this kind of excuses, especially when Fed playing with a player ranked pretty below. When a player finished his match, then he was surely able to play. Fed is surely player who should be able to handle with Ben on hc surfaces even in 3 matches.

Nole/Stan. I think you get at their match at AO. This match Nole did underestimate from the beginning, which cost him a lot of energy. The positive thing is that he learned from that, the following matches with Berd and Feru were therefore pretty quick. Actually I think that Nole needs to go sometime through such a match to get toughen for a following match. The same case was Monte Carlo.

As you still mention lungs, look in the thread Novak D. to look on his improvements between pre 2011 and post 2011 re serve, returns, winners and net approaches. These are things related to tennis ability.

BTW Sampras said that Nole can reign to tennis for 5 years, that seems to be quite good, doesn't it?

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:40 pm

Tenez wrote:
The information I get when watching Stan v Nole is what everybody sees. STan has by far the more aggressive shots, the more natural tennis. We can also see that Nole made a great job of "containing" Stan's shot ability...but you cannot deny that the vast majority of the crowd and most tennis posters were for Stan cause he is the one who provided the spectacle.

I can see very clearly when Nole start playing not fully focused, but he always believes in himself that he has a control in the match. I can appreciate that Nole is able to try certain things and changes of game pattern and rhytm during his match. I must say that I do actually the same when I play and have a control in the match.

I do not like aggressively wildish erratic players as Ivanisevic, Rodick, Rusedski. My preferences tennis wise are just opposite. I prefer a technique, a cleverness, an ability to change the game rhytm and pattern, fighting spirit.

No problem to admit that many fans were for Stan at AO especially when Nole did not play a good match. Stan is a nice character.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 pm

The thing that got me thinking was this sudden push for Nadal to have his ranking bumped for Roland Garros.
He now has no chance of beeing seeded 4th and can consequently play any of the top 4 players in the quarters.
To which I say: big deal!
Federer has already done it in IW, on blue clay (real blue clay, not the one in Madrid), so what is the sudden big deal and allthis fuss, now that Novak beat him in Monte Carlo!

At first, I thought it was just a one of those one-offs from Forget, who is known for some wild comments, kind of, maybe the media got him to test the waters of public opinion....
And yes the dead give-away was that according to Forget: It would be a shame to see Novak and Nadal play final before the final.

Then the next day, Mac came out with the same, even more voiced opinion.

Now the whole tennis community is buzzing with debates, coming up with ideas how to solve the $24K question.
Some even came with the idea of having a defending slam champion ALWAYS be given the number one ranking...
Suddenly, every Tom, Dick and Harry is out , bending themselves backward in order to help poor Rafa...

Where were they all when Del Potro came from his 12 months absence after wrist surgery and having to defend his USO title....

The REAL question is, who is pushing all this...basically giving Nadal protected 2 year ranking he lost the fight for in the ATP Players' council and then left it in a selfish huff...

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Post by paulcz on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:53 pm

luvsports! wrote:haha yesssss my czech bru!

Hi LS, I hope that your preparation goes well. That is nice that you can actually catch some news from doping here.

My advice for exams always was, to have something interisting in your pocket. Not to only speak things learned by your memory, but to know something which hardly somebody knows. That helped me many times.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:32 am

Tenez wrote:What do you make of today's match? Do you still see Nadal sweeping everything on clay?

Yes, I still think Nadal will win most of the clay tournaments pre the FO and I still think he is the favourite for the FO. One loss at MC does not change that. If Djokovic wins all of the clay tournaments leading up to the FO, then maybe I willchange my mind.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:35 am

noleisthebest
Yes, and strangely, I give more chance to the younger players, they seem to show more belief (Dimitrov, Gulbis), Raonic is turning out to be a big points choker, unfortunately
.

Are you kidding me? Those young players have zero belief and are too inconsistent to trouble Nadal at this point. The younger generation is terrible unfortunately.

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Post by BlueClay on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:46 am

paulcz
Except playing with Nole, I do not see anybody else with whom Nadal would struggle mentally.



I agree with the above statement. The only person Nadal can have problems with mentally is Novak, the others, forget about it.

IMO people are overreacting about Nadal's one loss on clay to Djokovic in over a year. I think we need to wait and see what happens in Madrid and Rome and then we will be able to see where both Nadal and Djokovic are at before the FO.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:54 am

He, he Blue Clay, one or two more losses from Nole and that already weavering FH will begin to crack...
Anyway, you don't sound happy he lost in MC , on the contrary, why?

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Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:17 am

BlueClay wrote:
paulcz
Except playing with Nole, I do not see anybody else with whom Nadal would struggle mentally.



I agree with the above statement. The only person Nadal can have problems with mentally is Novak, the others, forget about it.

IMO people are overreacting about Nadal's one loss on clay to Djokovic in over a year. I think we need to wait and see what happens in Madrid and Rome and then we will be able to see where both Nadal and Djokovic are at before the FO.

It's not the loss as much as the way he lost.

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