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The Wimbledon 2012 Eve : Lull Before The Storm

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The Wimbledon 2012 Eve : Lull Before The Storm - Page 2 Empty Re: The Wimbledon 2012 Eve : Lull Before The Storm

Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:31 am

Yes - I can see Tsip trying to get a win at all cost while Murray woudl be protecting his back.

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:06 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:17 pm

No thanks! Winking

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Post by Veejay Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Murray got beaten by Tipsarevic at Boodles.

Considering Murray lost in the first round of Queens to Tipsaravic,I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the same result had he put more effort into it
I think Murray could lose before the semi final at Wimbledon this year

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:34 pm

Yes, Murray like Federer are pretty unfit at teh moment.

Veejay...did you follow up that conversation we had on V2 about rigged draws? If so what's your take?

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:01 pm

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:03 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:27 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:No thanks! Winking

Why not?!!!! :shock:

Cause it's an exhibition and I find exhibitions a bit boring...unless Barhami is part of it! Winking

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:02 pm

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Post by Veejay Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:11 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes, Murray like Federer are pretty unfit at teh moment.

Veejay...did you follow up that conversation we had on V2 about rigged draws? If so what's your take?

I have had that conversation with quite a few different people now,many people seem to think the draw is rigged but I cant really see much else they can do differently
For the last few grand slams its been 1 & 3 and 2 & 4 on course to meet in the semi final
Either way anyone still has to go through 2 of the top 4 to win a major

I did however think the draw for RG was ridiculous,Berdych and Del Potro in the same quarter? Plus Nadals cup cake draw looked like the ATP were handing him a 7th title on a silver plate
We will see tomorrow,but I don't expect much of a change

What does everyone make of Agassi claiming if Murray had played in the same era he wouldn't have won as many majors?

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:17 pm

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:18 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:22 pm

We can't really make any conclusion about the draws when taken separately or in small groups. So there is not point commenting about the last slam draw or the last 2 or 3 draws for instance. However the 2008-2011 (4 years) study takes into account a larger sample (16 slams as a whole - or 12 as a whole if we ignore the FO for good reason imo) and the results there are extremely "odd" and in the ESPN study which addresses the first round opponents for seed 1 and 2 certainly makes a very clear case for rigging. I don't think anyone with a bit of basic stat knowledge can deny the ESPN study as being a valid proof of rigging...so based on this, the other weird results on the 2008-2011 semis (Fed/Djoko) can certainly be easier to explain.

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:25 pm

Here was my view on Agassi's comments (besides the fact he doesn't believe in it either and simply says what people here want to hear)



Regarding the case of Murray being unlucky, I disagree actually. I think in an other era he woudl have struggled to achieve such consistent results.

It's the slow pace couple by new diet and string technology that makes him that consistent.

Before 2007, it was the quality of your shots that guranteed you a place at the top. This is why the top 10 was occupied by very talented players (Ljubo, Nalbandian, Federer, Coria, Davydenko, Blake, Gonzo, etc....) Players had to have talent and variety. Or a huge weapon like Roddick (which clearly lacks in Murray's game)

It's only when Nadal, Djoko and Murray managed to get so fit and able to retrieve amazing shots on slower conds that consistency by those top players was achieved!

Before that a Blake or a Youzhny coudl blast the likes of Nadal off court. And they woudl have done so to Murray with more ease even.

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:34 pm

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Post by Veejay Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:34 pm

Do you have a link to that ESPN study?
Would love to read it

Good comments Tenez,not only that Agassi was a lot tougher mentally then Murray is
Agassi won majors on the same era as Sampras,some even against Sampras,something Murray hasnt been able to do against Federer
I too think Agassi only says what will make him popular in the moment

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:37 pm

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Post by Veejay Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nole is a much superior version of Davydenko with an all-court game and personality on top smiley
Id say he is one of the toughest mentally I have ever seen,Davydenko cant even come close

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:41 pm

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:42 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:47 pm

Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Nole is a much superior version of Davydenko with an all-court game and personality on top smiley
Id say he is one of the toughest mentally I have ever seen,Davydenko cant even come close

Davydenko is actually more talented than Djoko. But I agree he is more erratic and his serve let's him down. But Davydenko's technique and ball placement is much better. Djoko makes up with a bigger frame, better serve and cause he takes less risk than Davy, stronger mind.

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:54 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:02 pm

however, the conditions have slowed down and he adjusted to it, just like Fed and everyone else.
-------------------------

Well yes but that is what made Federer slip down the ranking while Djoko and Nadal went up.

Talent is one thing, achieving in sport is quite different.

One doesn't adapt to slow conds thanks to talent but by becoming better physically.

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Post by noleisthebest Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:17 pm

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Post by Tenez Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:43 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Fed adapted pretty well.
He's held a physical edge over Nole for many years, anyway.

Oh oh! It's the talent edge that Federer had over everybody else including Nole! He did not need his physical edge to beat Nole more often than not. From their first encounter to the last, it was Nole trying to extend the rallies and Fed trying to shorten them.

So we can't put all players in the same basket when it comes to physique and talent.

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