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The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:06 pm

Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:37 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.
both are crimes in my opinion but the word sponsored doesnt = cover up to me 
1 is just covering up...the other is sponsoring and covering up at the same time

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:58 am

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

It would be very daft of the UK government especially if they are funding doping given that any recorded document is in the public domain with a swift FOI put in.

If you really want to engage those conspiracy juices I can line this one up. The emergence of Sport England and Lottery funding which by definition spend activities do not have to be disclosed. Winking

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:24 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

It would be very daft of the UK government especially if they are funding doping given that any recorded document is in the public domain with a swift FOI put in.

If you really want to engage those conspiracy juices I can line this one up. The emergence of Sport England and Lottery funding which by definition spend activities do not have to be disclosed. Winking

It's done in a smarter way. No gov is going to expose themselves like that. The govs, like in Spain, are not financing doping but they intently turn a blind eye to the issue.....even if they make sure that WADA and other agencies do their job.

It's done smartly. NO different than the UCL or other sport organisations which got bust but govs have a few more protecting layers.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:26 pm

And it's not conspiracy cause it's been exposed in Spain, Russia, Jamaic and I am sure all other countries do.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:41 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

It would be very daft of the UK government especially if they are funding doping given that any recorded document is in the public domain with a swift FOI put in.

If you really want to engage those conspiracy juices I can line this one up. The emergence of Sport England and Lottery funding which by definition spend activities do not have to be disclosed. Winking

It's done in a smarter way. No gov is going to expose themselves like that. The govs, like in Spain, are not financing doping but they intently turn a blind eye to the issue.....even if they make sure that WADA and other agencies do their job.

It's done smartly. NO different than the UCL or other sport organisations which got bust but govs have a few more protecting layers.


What would be the smarter way? Thing is about government money and especially in the UK it is absolutely transparent on how it is spent. Even with organisations that are not government owned or run still have to be transparent on how that money is spent.

Now by all accounts these government bodies could easily not disclose certain transactions or areas of spend, however if it is documented in any way electronically they run the risk of an FOI request.

Other EU countries I am not aware have similar laws to the UK in data transparency.

When you talk about "state doping" you need to look at it from a economic perspective. Especially in the UK. From now until the next summer Olympics the total budget for all sports is £345M. It's unclear from their website how much is Lottery Funded, but in a time when the country is facing austerity measures and the increasing rate in which lower league football teams are asking Local Authorities for loans, I would wager that the government see more value in bailing out football teams than doping for events that will not provide any immediate return on investment.

I am not saying it's not going on, what I am saying it's not all coming from the government coffers!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:20 pm

Bottom line is, most GB & US medal winning athletes were doped.

But it's the Russians that are called baddies, so that the masses who are slaving in order to pay mortgages can feel good about themselves and have someone to point their whiter than white finger at.

Now that is what I call racism par excellance.

Please tell me you are not expecting BBC journalists to expose dopers in this country.
Who is then?

What happened to the scientist who said Saddam had no weapons of destruction?

I feel sick when I see ex soldiers collecting money for "our heroes" who fight in Afghanistan, Iraq....and if they really insist, I stop and tell them what I think about their "heroism" and what they did in my country.

They usually have not much to say after that.

I know this is not directly linked to doping topic, but behind it all is the same principle: might is right.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:22 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

It would be very daft of the UK government especially if they are funding doping given that any recorded document is in the public domain with a swift FOI put in.

If you really want to engage those conspiracy juices I can line this one up. The emergence of Sport England and Lottery funding which by definition spend activities do not have to be disclosed. Winking

It's done in a smarter way. No gov is going to expose themselves like that. The govs, like in Spain, are not financing doping but they intently turn a blind eye to the issue.....even if they make sure that WADA and other agencies do their job.

It's done smartly. NO different than the UCL or other sport organisations which got bust but govs have a few more protecting layers.


What would be the smarter way? Thing is about government money and especially in the UK it is absolutely transparent on how it is spent. Even with organisations that are not government owned or run still have to be transparent on how that money is spent.

Now by all accounts these government bodies could easily not disclose certain transactions or areas of spend, however if it is documented in any way electronically they run the risk of an FOI request.

Other EU countries I am not aware have similar laws to the UK in data transparency.

When you talk about "state doping" you need to look at it from a economic perspective. Especially in the UK. From now until the next summer Olympics the total budget for all sports is £345M. It's unclear from their website how much is Lottery Funded, but in a time when the country is facing austerity measures and the increasing rate in which lower league football teams are asking Local Authorities for loans, I would wager that the government see more value in bailing out football teams than doping for events that will not provide any immediate return on investment.

I am not saying it's not going on, what I am saying it's not all coming from the government coffers!
im still not convinced that doping in this country goes as far as government involved.sure the athletes are being sponsored and funded by the national lottery but i think the majority of dopers are doing it privately with money that is funded to them 
i think the corrupt side of government involvement is perhaps trying to cover for an athlete and allowing them to compete under very suspicious circumstances  i.e lizzie armistead

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:27 pm

NITB wrote:Bottom line is, most GB & US medal winning athletes were doped.

But it's the Russians that are called baddies, so that the masses who are slaving in order to pay mortgages can feel good about themselves and have someone to point their whiter than white finger at.

Now that is what I call racism par excellance.

Please tell me you are not expecting BBC journalists to expose dopers in this country.
Who is then?

What happened to the scientist who said Saddam had no weapons of destruction?

I feel sick when I see ex soldiers collecting money for "our heroes" who fight in Afghanistan, Iraq....and if they really insist, I stop and tell them what I think about their "heroism" and what they did in my country.

They usually have not much to say after that.

I know this is not directly linked to doping topic, but behind it all is the same principle: might is right.
as i pointed out before,WADA paid no attention to the whistleblowers,it was not until the video footage was aired on a german tv that basically forced them to take action
had the whistleblowers not exposed the scandal o german tv the russians would most likely still be carrying on with their state sponsored doping 
if there was hypotheticlly a similar program in the u.k that was exposed by whistleblowers and WADA were in a similar position where they had to act,would you still call it racism if the british athletes were banned from competing?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:33 pm

Of course I would.

Can't you see it's never going to happen? Why is that?
And does it not frustrate you?

Or is it enough for you that Sharapova is caught and Serena is not and never will but not because she is clean.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:17 pm

sharapova dug her own grave,if she had just shut up she most likely would have gotten away with it like many other athletes who claimed ignorance.once she claimed ignorance she got off and the balme was placed elsewhere 
i have no sympathy for her case because shes been proven to be a liar of epic proportions 
did you miss the part where i said that if i ever had evidence of serena doping,that i would expose her? ..you should go back and read it again,its in a few post above
this wouldnt even be an issue if serena was russian,youd be saying how unfair it is that serena got caught while everyone else is getting away with it

so if the british athletes we banned from competing,who would it be racist against? or why would it be racist to ban them not because of doping but because of race? 
to answer your question,prior to the state sponsored doping scandal being exposed,i would have said that a scandal like that would never have been exposed anywhere in any country,but yet it was so what makes you think that it will never happen?
is it just because they are russian?
didnt russians blow the lid on their own doping scandal,so what makes you think athletes from other countries wouldnt do the same?
what makes you so sure that it will never happen when it just happened
youre making out like this is a personal attack on russia when russian athletes exposed the scandal and wada didnt even bother to take notice until they were forced to

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:44 am

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:.....
while I would think that athletes in the u.k ( as an example) are very likely to be protected,or a massive cover up by the government with a far greater chance to get away with it because they are on the right side of things,i don't think its the same as state sponsored doping
It is exactly State sponsored doping too. If the governement is financing sports and is covering then it is state doping. I am not sure why you cannot see it. No different than Spain's law defending its athletes and allowing the destruction of blood samples of 200 athletes. You are playing with words but the result is the same. State supported doping programs.

It would be very daft of the UK government especially if they are funding doping given that any recorded document is in the public domain with a swift FOI put in.

If you really want to engage those conspiracy juices I can line this one up. The emergence of Sport England and Lottery funding which by definition spend activities do not have to be disclosed. Winking

It's done in a smarter way. No gov is going to expose themselves like that. The govs, like in Spain, are not financing doping but they intently turn a blind eye to the issue.....even if they make sure that WADA and other agencies do their job.

It's done smartly. NO different than the UCL or other sport organisations which got bust but govs have a few more protecting layers.


What would be the smarter way? Thing is about government money and especially in the UK it is absolutely transparent on how it is spent. Even with organisations that are not government owned or run still have to be transparent on how that money is spent.

Now by all accounts these government bodies could easily not disclose certain transactions or areas of spend, however if it is documented in any way electronically they run the risk of an FOI request.

Other EU countries I am not aware have similar laws to the UK in data transparency.

When you talk about "state doping" you need to look at it from a economic perspective. Especially in the UK. From now until the next summer Olympics the total budget for all sports is £345M. It's unclear from their website how much is Lottery Funded, but in a time when the country is facing austerity measures and the increasing rate in which lower league football teams are asking Local Authorities for loans, I would wager that the government see more value in bailing out football teams than doping for events that will not provide any immediate return on investment.

I am not saying it's not going on, what I am saying it's not all coming from the government coffers!
im still not convinced that doping in this country goes as far as government involved.sure the athletes are being sponsored and funded by the national lottery but i think the majority of dopers are doing it privately with money that is funded to them 
i think the corrupt side of government involvement is perhaps trying to cover for an athlete and allowing them to compete under very suspicious circumstances  i.e lizzie armistead

Again I don't see the benefit of the government defending its athletes should they face strong accusations of doping. In an age of political unrest, they don't need that level of involvement.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:06 am

neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Slippy on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:28 am

Armitstead was cleared by CAS - an independent global organisation. If the British government had sought to stop her competing, it would have been sued, she would have won and gone anyway. The government couldn't have done anything to stop her.

Overall, I agree with LK. I can't see a situation where the government becomes aware of a doping failure and covers it up. The reputation of any athlete isn't sufficient to deal with the risk if it ever became apparent the government had covered it up.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:37 am

Slippy wrote:Armitstead was cleared by CAS - an independent global organisation. If the British government had sought to stop her competing, it would have been sued, she would have won and gone anyway. The government couldn't have done anything to stop her.

Overall, I agree with LK. I can't see a situation where the government becomes aware of a doping failure and covers it up. The reputation of any athlete isn't sufficient to deal with the risk if it ever became apparent the government had covered it up.
cleared by cas like sharapova?  Laugh 
after sharapova's case im not convinced that any athlete who is cleared by CAS is 100% innocent but rather question the potential corruption behind clearing the athlete
im not saying that the british government would have sought to stop her from competing ,im saying the complete opposite 
it seems to me like a lot of strings were being pulled behind the scenes to get her there to compete cause she was a potential medal winner

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:43 am

Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:53 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:07 pm

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out


I was meant to answer both points of your original post, but got caught up in a meeting.

In terms of Murray if he were doping and would there be great lengths gone to cover that up? He is a bit of a British sporting institute. I think you can only measure an athlete's influence by the take up levels in their respective sport, but also other areas they influence beyond sport. All of which is subjective.

I think in Murray's case I think it's fair to say he isn't one that is heavily involved in the sporting politics of this world and or even for that matter a sponsors wet dream. I think Murray invested in a hotel chain or starting one up in Scotland. So for me the strong message there is that he sees his business interests outside the sport and it's sponsors. You also have to factor in his frosty relationship with the LTA. He has on many occasions publicly criticised the LTA and it's existence. I can't see that they would move heaven and earth to protect him. Yes he plays Queens and Wimbledon, but not for love of the LTA.

For me too many factors would point to the opposite direction of the protectionism that might be afforded to Murray. If he is doping, he's doing it himself.

Now as for Lizzie Armistead. Isn't she the one who missed 3 tests? My view is that it is a massive failing of WADA. Should've been banned. Don't care who cleared her. Rio Ferdinand was banned for missing 1! Should be the same for all.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:48 pm

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38663811

Wishing them a prompt recovery but why trying in Spain? ...like Murray did? In the past Athletes were training in altitude now they can create those extra red cells at ground 0.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:08 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out


I was meant to answer both points of your original post, but got caught up in a meeting.

In terms of Murray if he were doping and would there be great lengths gone to cover that up? He is a bit of a British sporting institute. I think you can only measure an athlete's influence by the take up levels in their respective sport, but also other areas they influence beyond sport. All of which is subjective.

I think in Murray's case I think it's fair to say he isn't one that is heavily involved in the sporting politics of this world and or even for that matter a sponsors wet dream. I think Murray invested in a hotel chain or starting one up in Scotland. So for me the strong message there is that he sees his business interests outside the sport and it's sponsors. You also have to factor in his frosty relationship with the LTA. He has on many occasions publicly criticised the LTA and it's existence. I can't see that they would move heaven and earth to protect him. Yes he plays Queens and Wimbledon, but not for love of the LTA.

For me too many factors would point to the opposite direction of the protectionism that might be afforded to Murray. If he is doping, he's doing it himself.

Now as for Lizzie Armistead. Isn't she the one who missed 3 tests? My view is that it is a massive failing of WADA. Should've been banned. Don't care who cleared her. Rio Ferdinand was banned for missing 1! Should be the same for all.
this has been my point all along,i seriously doubt that theres government involvement in this country,i think the dopers are doing it privately however murray may not love the LTA but they certainly have to love him.if he wasnt a grand slam winner and didnt end so many droughts in british tennis,i certainly dont think that they would move heaven and hell to try and protect him
but he is a double olympic gold medal winner,2 times wimbledon champion,world no1 and davis cup winner 
if murray were to fail a drugs test,or if someone at the LTA had proof that he was using illegal drugs,do you really believe that murray would be exposed and risk stripping him of all of the above? 
i dont.. hence the reason why i think he is likely to be an athlete who would be protected or covered up

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:38 am

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out


I was meant to answer both points of your original post, but got caught up in a meeting.

In terms of Murray if he were doping and would there be great lengths gone to cover that up? He is a bit of a British sporting institute. I think you can only measure an athlete's influence by the take up levels in their respective sport, but also other areas they influence beyond sport. All of which is subjective.

I think in Murray's case I think it's fair to say he isn't one that is heavily involved in the sporting politics of this world and or even for that matter a sponsors wet dream. I think Murray invested in a hotel chain or starting one up in Scotland. So for me the strong message there is that he sees his business interests outside the sport and it's sponsors. You also have to factor in his frosty relationship with the LTA. He has on many occasions publicly criticised the LTA and it's existence. I can't see that they would move heaven and earth to protect him. Yes he plays Queens and Wimbledon, but not for love of the LTA.

For me too many factors would point to the opposite direction of the protectionism that might be afforded to Murray. If he is doping, he's doing it himself.

Now as for Lizzie Armistead. Isn't she the one who missed 3 tests? My view is that it is a massive failing of WADA. Should've been banned. Don't care who cleared her. Rio Ferdinand was banned for missing 1! Should be the same for all.
this has been my point all along,i seriously doubt that theres government involvement in this country,i think the dopers are doing it privately however murray may not love the LTA but they certainly have to love him.if he wasnt a grand slam winner and didnt end so many droughts in british tennis,i certainly dont think that they would move heaven and hell to try and protect him
but he is a double olympic gold medal winner,2 times wimbledon champion,world no1 and davis cup winner 
if murray were to fail a drugs test,or if someone at the LTA had proof that he was using illegal drugs,do you really believe that murray would be exposed and risk stripping him of all of the above? 
i dont.. hence the reason why i think he is likely to be an athlete who would be protected or covered up


I disagree. Again I don't see why the LTA would cover it up. Murray is a guy not developed through the LTA. He has always been highly critical. It would be easier for the LTA to completely distance themselves from Murray and questions not be raised given those 2 key elements. The LTA have nothing to gain whatsoever in protecting Murray in such a predicament. If anything it's the Wimbledon organisers who would probably feel the sting given Murray is one of the biggest draws if not the biggest draw for that event. Not look good if a home country champion failed a drugs test.

The LTA interests are solely participation numbers and any focus group survey would prove hard to how many play because of Murray. Murray doesn't endorse the LTA or even promote them. If anything I think it would be the ATP and it's sponsors who would be keen to protect him.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:42 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out


I was meant to answer both points of your original post, but got caught up in a meeting.

In terms of Murray if he were doping and would there be great lengths gone to cover that up? He is a bit of a British sporting institute. I think you can only measure an athlete's influence by the take up levels in their respective sport, but also other areas they influence beyond sport. All of which is subjective.

I think in Murray's case I think it's fair to say he isn't one that is heavily involved in the sporting politics of this world and or even for that matter a sponsors wet dream. I think Murray invested in a hotel chain or starting one up in Scotland. So for me the strong message there is that he sees his business interests outside the sport and it's sponsors. You also have to factor in his frosty relationship with the LTA. He has on many occasions publicly criticised the LTA and it's existence. I can't see that they would move heaven and earth to protect him. Yes he plays Queens and Wimbledon, but not for love of the LTA.

For me too many factors would point to the opposite direction of the protectionism that might be afforded to Murray. If he is doping, he's doing it himself.

Now as for Lizzie Armistead. Isn't she the one who missed 3 tests? My view is that it is a massive failing of WADA. Should've been banned. Don't care who cleared her. Rio Ferdinand was banned for missing 1! Should be the same for all.
this has been my point all along,i seriously doubt that theres government involvement in this country,i think the dopers are doing it privately however murray may not love the LTA but they certainly have to love him.if he wasnt a grand slam winner and didnt end so many droughts in british tennis,i certainly dont think that they would move heaven and hell to try and protect him
but he is a double olympic gold medal winner,2 times wimbledon champion,world no1 and davis cup winner 
if murray were to fail a drugs test,or if someone at the LTA had proof that he was using illegal drugs,do you really believe that murray would be exposed and risk stripping him of all of the above? 
i dont.. hence the reason why i think he is likely to be an athlete who would be protected or covered up


I disagree. Again I don't see why the LTA would cover it up. Murray is a guy not developed through the LTA. He has always been highly critical. It would be easier for the LTA to completely distance themselves from Murray and questions not be raised given those 2 key elements. The LTA have nothing to gain whatsoever in protecting Murray in such a predicament. If anything it's the Wimbledon organisers who would probably feel the sting given Murray is one of the biggest draws if not the biggest draw for that event. Not look good if a home country champion failed a drugs test.

The LTA interests are solely participation numbers and any focus group survey would prove hard to how many play because of Murray. Murray doesn't endorse the LTA or even promote them. If anything I think it would be the ATP and it's sponsors who would be keen to protect him.
ok not the LTA but the ATP
to me its all the same i.e  the powers that be

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:55 pm

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:neither do i,defending and covering a scandal up are 2 very different things in my opinion..
if an athlete is proven to be a doper then i seriously doubt that we will see a similar scenario where the athlete gets exonerated by the prime minister,like we have seen in spain with alberto contodor 
but if an athlete like murray were to fail a drugs test going into an intrnational event like the olympics,i could see the powers that be trying to cover that up to make sure that he gets to compete 
what do you make of the lizzie armistead case?
it seems to me like everything was being done to get her to rio so that she could compete ( under very very suspicious circumstances)

True defending and covering up are 2 different things, but given the culture of society today and Politics is a charisma game, I can't see that the government would want any of their bodies involved in covering up doping. Given historically that doping has been more associated with the Olympics, how many times do the general public look at a doping scandal and think "meh it's not in football so I'm not bothered" I know most on here care passionately about sport and it's athletes being clean, but to me the consensus no-one cares enough probably because it's the same sports and events being exposed time and time again and that to me has reinforced the don't give a fig brigade.
i think thats its more of a question of not wanting to be exposed in a cover up rather then not being involved in a cover up
just look at all the scandals our politicians get exposed for Yikes ... you cannot rule the possibility out


I was meant to answer both points of your original post, but got caught up in a meeting.

In terms of Murray if he were doping and would there be great lengths gone to cover that up? He is a bit of a British sporting institute. I think you can only measure an athlete's influence by the take up levels in their respective sport, but also other areas they influence beyond sport. All of which is subjective.

I think in Murray's case I think it's fair to say he isn't one that is heavily involved in the sporting politics of this world and or even for that matter a sponsors wet dream. I think Murray invested in a hotel chain or starting one up in Scotland. So for me the strong message there is that he sees his business interests outside the sport and it's sponsors. You also have to factor in his frosty relationship with the LTA. He has on many occasions publicly criticised the LTA and it's existence. I can't see that they would move heaven and earth to protect him. Yes he plays Queens and Wimbledon, but not for love of the LTA.

For me too many factors would point to the opposite direction of the protectionism that might be afforded to Murray. If he is doping, he's doing it himself.

Now as for Lizzie Armistead. Isn't she the one who missed 3 tests? My view is that it is a massive failing of WADA. Should've been banned. Don't care who cleared her. Rio Ferdinand was banned for missing 1! Should be the same for all.
this has been my point all along,i seriously doubt that theres government involvement in this country,i think the dopers are doing it privately however murray may not love the LTA but they certainly have to love him.if he wasnt a grand slam winner and didnt end so many droughts in british tennis,i certainly dont think that they would move heaven and hell to try and protect him
but he is a double olympic gold medal winner,2 times wimbledon champion,world no1 and davis cup winner 
if murray were to fail a drugs test,or if someone at the LTA had proof that he was using illegal drugs,do you really believe that murray would be exposed and risk stripping him of all of the above? 
i dont.. hence the reason why i think he is likely to be an athlete who would be protected or covered up


I disagree. Again I don't see why the LTA would cover it up. Murray is a guy not developed through the LTA. He has always been highly critical. It would be easier for the LTA to completely distance themselves from Murray and questions not be raised given those 2 key elements. The LTA have nothing to gain whatsoever in protecting Murray in such a predicament. If anything it's the Wimbledon organisers who would probably feel the sting given Murray is one of the biggest draws if not the biggest draw for that event. Not look good if a home country champion failed a drugs test.

The LTA interests are solely participation numbers and any focus group survey would prove hard to how many play because of Murray. Murray doesn't endorse the LTA or even promote them. If anything I think it would be the ATP and it's sponsors who would be keen to protect him.
ok not the LTA but the ATP
to me its all the same i.e  the powers that be


It's similar with the whole FA and Premier League. One is like a governing body (The FA) and the other a corporate whore! (The Premier League).

It's interesting in Tennis from the stand point that the Slams have their organisers and as they are ITF events, would never yield to the ATP given I would bet they make more in 2 weeks than the ATP in the entire season! The very moment the ATP becomes of a bigger commercial monster than the Slams, corruption would intensify massively overnight!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by bogbrush on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:20 pm

I honestly think as a Country we're pretty straight. Look at how national hero Sir Bradley Wiggins has been discussed. I'm not saying there aren't British dopers (obviously there are) but I don't believe it's sanctioned at any serious level.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:08 pm

bogbrush wrote:I honestly think as a Country we're pretty straight. Look at how national hero Sir Bradley Wiggins has been discussed. I'm not saying there aren't British dopers (obviously there are) but I don't believe it's sanctioned at any serious level.

Think risk adverse would be the best way Winking

I do agree though that it's not sanctioned at the highest levels.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:01 pm

usian bolt stripped of gold medal after nesta carter tests positive 
could this be the start of another major doping scandal being exposed?
thoughts...??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38744846

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:29 pm

No-one will go after Bolt. Not a chance

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:38 pm

legendkillar wrote:No-one will go after Bolt. Not a chance
what makes you think he is so untouchable?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:51 pm

Agree...not before Bolt retires for good anyway.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:00 pm

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:No-one will go after Bolt. Not a chance
what makes you think he is so untouchable?

The man is the face of world athletics. At the moment he is just associated with a doper. Let's see who else from that team gets fingered.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:12 pm

so do you think that if this led to a massive doping scandal being uncovered in jamaican athletics,that the olympic officials would cover it up if it happened to involve usain bolt?
remember the ben johnson saga where the entire canadian athletic team were eventually exposed to be a part of the doping scandal

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:15 pm

Well let's see if anymore Jamaican sprinters get busted. I know some female sprinters did, but if they all start to tumble I doubt Bolt would come out clean the other side.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:23 pm

well regardless of what happens,this is still a pretty massive blow to his legacy as he wont retire having won the triple gold in 3 different olympics
and sadly most people who follow sport casually will only ever remember the part where he was stripped of a gold medal through some doping scandal 

its rumoured that bolt told olympic officials that they can have the gold medal back if they can catch him  Laugh

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:46 pm

Jamaican sprinters have been caught in the recent past 2 big names....cant remember them though.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Veejay on Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:48 pm

tweeted by the fancy bears hackers...
a new way of doping!! 

Athletes enhance their performance in all sorts of different ways: swallow pills, inject drugs, or even get transfusions of their own blood.
But one cyclist has discovered a new avenue in the world of performance enhancers: poop.
Apparently, getting a fecal transplant from a competitive cyclist can boost your body’s ability to convert food into energy, at least according to microbiologist Lauren Petersen.
Petersen, a researcher at The Jackson Laboratory for Genomic Medicine in Farmington, Connecticut, came to this startling realization through personal experience.
At just 11 years old, Petersen contracted Lyme Disease and was forced onto a heavy regimen of antibiotics. The treatment helped her battle Lyme Disease, however, there was a downside.
“I had no microbes to help me break down food, and I had picked up bugs in the lab where I was working because my system was so weak and susceptible,” Petersen told Bicycling.com.
What’s worse, during graduate school Petersen had her digestive system tested and discovered that she was full of gram-negative pathogens. Common strains of the pathogens include E.coli and Salmonella.
Petersen knew she needed to do something, but she couldn’t find a doctor to help her. So she gave herself a fecal transplant from a competitive cyclist.
The results were astounding. Shortly after the transplant, she was able to train five days a week instead of her usual two and she was able to move from amateur to pro endurance bike racing.
“I wondered if I had gotten my microbiome from a couch potato, not a racer, if I would I be doing so well,” Petersen recalls.
It turns out that Petersen probably would not have been doing as well if she’d gotten a couch potato’s poop. Gathering a plethora of poop samples from amateur and professional bike racers, Petersen got to work in the lab and discovered that elite athletes are full of a microorganism called Prevotella.
“The more a person trains, the more likely they are to have Prevotella,” says Petersen. “In my sampling, only half of cyclists have Prevotella, but top racers always have it … it’s not even in 10 percent of non-athletes.”
While Petersen is still trying to figure out everything Prevotella does for top athletes she already knows that it plays a critical part of muscle recovery.
Prevotella, however, is not the only thing Petersen discovered in her stool samples. She also found that top athletes are more likely to have an ancient microorganism called Methanobrevibacter smithii, or M. smithii, in their guts.
Again, Petersen isn’t 100-percent sure how M. smithii helps performance, but it is not hard to imagine how it could be helpful. To put it plainly, M. smithii eats the poop created by the bacteria in our digestive system, converts it into farts, and as a result, our systems pull more energy from the food we eat.
M. smithii achieves this feat by combining the hydrogen “pooped” by the bacteria in our stomachs with carbon dioxide to create methane. Methane is one of the primary non-smelly gases in human farts. Besides creating flatulence, decreasing the amount of hydrogen in our gut increases the amount of calories that are extracted from food, a study published in PLos One suggests.
It thus makes sense that tip top athletes like pro cyclists would have lots of M. smithii in their system.
Unfortunately for all the weekend warriors out there, you can’t go to your doctor and ask for a fecal transplant full of M. smithii and Prevotella because the procedure has only been approved for the treatment of Clostridium Difficile — a potentially life-threatening infection of the colon — by the Food and Drug Administration.
Petersen, however, is not giving up hope that her research may one day make its way to athletes around the world.
“What we’re learning is going to change a lot for cyclists as well as the rest of the population,” says Petersen. “If you get tested and you’re missing something, maybe in three years you’ll be able to get it through a pill instead of a fecal transplant. We’ve got data that no one has ever seen before, and we’re learning a lot. And I think I can say with confidence that bacterial doping — call it poop doping if you must — is coming soon.”
http://nypost.com/2017/06/28/poop-transplants-are-the-final-frontier-in-athletic-doping/

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Look at those legs!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/40669029

And cycling is clean nowadays?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:45 pm

Tenez wrote:Look at those legs!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/40669029

And cycling is clean nowadays?
What a repulsive signt!

Why are they doing it to themselves....in a way they are like heroin addicts, except that it's their ego that needs the drug.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:59 am

Tenez wrote:Look at those legs!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/40669029

And cycling is clean nowadays?


Apparently Laugh Laugh

Did see another athlete was busted and Ennis was awarded the gold medal.

Is there really any point in doing that after 6 years?? Just makes it meaningless.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:35 pm

The joke continues...:


LONDON (AP) — Former French Open finalist Sara Errani must serve a two-month doping ban after testing positive for the banned substance letrozole in a test taken in February, the International Tennis Federation said Monday.
Errani's defense blamed contamination from her mother's cancer medication.
An adjudication panel ruled that Errani's fault was "at the lower end of the scale" but that she should still be banned for two months backdated to Aug. 3.
The 29-year-old Italian has also been retroactively disqualified from tournaments from Feb. 16 through June 7.


=============================================


Two months for testing positive, is that all?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:34 pm

Letrozole is a substance known as an aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase is the substance in our bodies that converts testosterone into estrogen. Letrozole suppresses aromatase, which leaves more natural testosterone in the system. Clinically, it is used to treat breast-cancer patients. But for men, it works in much the same way clomiphene does and with even fewer side effects.

"I like to think of certain banned substances like Clomid and Letrozole as indirect roads to the same destination, thereby increasing testosterone irrespective of why it was being used or prescribed," Goodman said.
========================

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:07 pm

I saw her in Wimbledon a few years ago, she looked so pumped it felt you could burst her like a balloon if you pricked with a needle.

Cibulkova was the same.


What was striking about Errani was how little talent she had.

Despite all those muscles she could barely push her serve in...but in retrieving, she was absolute queen!

She was Ferrer on triple duracel.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:36 pm

... wrote:I saw her in Wimbledon a few years ago, she looked so pumped it felt you could burst her like a balloon if you pricked with a needle.

Cibulkova was the same.


What was striking about Errani was how little talent she had.

In tennis, that's the first sign of a doper.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:45 am

... wrote:The joke continues...:


LONDON (AP) — Former French Open finalist Sara Errani must serve a two-month doping ban after testing positive for the banned substance letrozole in a test taken in February, the International Tennis Federation said Monday.
Errani's defense blamed contamination from her mother's cancer medication.
An adjudication panel ruled that Errani's fault was "at the lower end of the scale" but that she should still be banned for two months backdated to Aug. 3.
The 29-year-old Italian has also been retroactively disqualified from tournaments from Feb. 16 through June 7.


=============================================


Two months for testing positive, is that all?

Absolute disgrace.

How does one get contamination from someone else's medication unknowingly??

ITF are a f*cking shambles. Get rid of them. The most ineffective and incompetent sporting authority out there. Usually a place reserved for FIFA.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:07 pm

legendkillar wrote:
... wrote:The joke continues...:


LONDON (AP) — Former French Open finalist Sara Errani must serve a two-month doping ban after testing positive for the banned substance letrozole in a test taken in February, the International Tennis Federation said Monday.
Errani's defense blamed contamination from her mother's cancer medication.
An adjudication panel ruled that Errani's fault was "at the lower end of the scale" but that she should still be banned for two months backdated to Aug. 3.
The 29-year-old Italian has also been retroactively disqualified from tournaments from Feb. 16 through June 7.


=============================================

Very efficient against Sharapova though.


Two months for testing positive, is that all?

Absolute disgrace.

How does one get contamination from someone else's medication unknowingly??

ITF are a f*cking shambles. Get rid of them. The most ineffective and incompetent sporting authority out there. Usually a place reserved for FIFA.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
... wrote:The joke continues...:


LONDON (AP) — Former French Open finalist Sara Errani must serve a two-month doping ban after testing positive for the banned substance letrozole in a test taken in February, the International Tennis Federation said Monday.
Errani's defense blamed contamination from her mother's cancer medication.
An adjudication panel ruled that Errani's fault was "at the lower end of the scale" but that she should still be banned for two months backdated to Aug. 3.
The 29-year-old Italian has also been retroactively disqualified from tournaments from Feb. 16 through June 7.


=============================================

Very efficient against Sharapova though.


Two months for testing positive, is that all?

Absolute disgrace.

How does one get contamination from someone else's medication unknowingly??

ITF are a f*cking shambles. Get rid of them. The most ineffective and incompetent sporting authority out there. Usually a place reserved for FIFA.


Well Sharapova was punished accordingly. The punishment in this case is an absolute disgrace and joke. The lack of consistency is embarrassing.

The excuses are beyond belief that these players are starting to punting out there. Take some responsibility! It's your job to ensure you know what you are taking or being exposed to.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:51 pm

Will try and download Icarus on Netflix tonight. About doping and has interviews with Rodchenkov.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:39 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41011854

Just hilarious. Fancy Bears just destroying WADA and other anti-doping agencies!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by bogbrush on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:51 pm

Salbutamol really is just the blue reliever inhaler. If you have asthma then it's part of your life, there's nothing to see there.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:37 pm

yeah....though you may find that all those super athletes are all asthmatique...it's comical.

I also like the "There is no suggestion any of these footballers have done anything wrong."

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:44 pm

bogbrush wrote:Salbutamol really is just the blue reliever inhaler. If you have asthma then it's part of your life, there's nothing to see there.


That would be the one (Beclomethasone is the brown equivalent), however it can be administered via injection which offers fast relief.

Sounds bonkers, but it can actually be abused in doping terms.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

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