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The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by sphairistike on Thu May 21, 2015 2:42 pm

I guess he means (Chris) Evert...

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Thu May 21, 2015 3:13 pm

Yes!! chrissie!  She, pat McEnroe were on a ESPN conference call.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 21, 2015 3:32 pm

Evert....of course.

She really is very ambiguous about that comment....or not ambiguous at all....depending on where we look at it. I personally did not notice much difference physically but it is very difficult to see on TV. Those people are very close.

They say he is not as pumped up....I say he tires quicker. That to me is his big issue. It was obvious v Stan. He started very strong but after 9 games ran out of steam....Same in a few of his losses this year.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 21, 2015 4:12 pm

I think he is as big as ever, just the clothes are different.
Stick him in that sleeveless blue top and white pirates and he'll look the same as 10 years ago (minus the shiny head-top, of course Winking )
Fitness wise I haven't noticed any difference from last year, only that he has lost confdence.

The tour is moving on, but he is not able to adjust and improve anything, so the gap between him and the rest has simply closed and he knows it.

But!!!
I do find the timing of Evert's comment intriguing.

Why now?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 21, 2015 5:01 pm

To me he never looked as fit and as pumped up than in that AO12 v Federer and also AO 14.

I have been looking at clips of those 2 matches and it's obvious that there was something wrong with the conditions.

Federer's high skills, unequal eye/hand coordination pulling amazing shots after amazing shots being pass by Nadal whose only merit is to get to those winners and wack them back with plenty of time to spare.

I am sure the tennis world will look at it one day as the worst robbery in tennis history. well besides that of Wilander winning his first FO with 13mn long rallies versus Vilas.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Thu May 21, 2015 5:02 pm

It would be career suicide for her to flat out say he's been a doper-   no broadcaster can keep their job throwing one of the biggest stars in the sport under the bus and all the other issues that would mean- the sport being complacent, coverup ect..   The USA comms like herself, Courier especially during live commentating throw in little nuggets from time to time in regards to Nadal being a doper.  Usually with a laugh and a giggle as if it's a laughing matter.

I think Chrissie is about as clear as she can be about what she sees as Nadals doping---  though I see where someone on the other side of the coin will say-   "she's saying that she's not insinuating he's doping!"  It's all with a wink,wink  imo.

I said early this year that something was off with his regimen...  The sudden patchy unnatural hair loss, puffy one day/ gaunt the next, fitness issues.   I kept saying it looked like Peds toxic shock to me or he had done damage to his body by not properly cycling down.  Everything that has transpired since with his levels and coming back down to earth at the ripe old age of 28 bolster my opinion...  IMO..lol

Patrick McEnroe in this same interview feels that if Nadal loses the French and falls out of top 10- he's done.  doesn't think Nadal can change his game enough to compete, confidence will be shattered, etc.  Believes he will burn out quick..

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 21, 2015 5:05 pm

Yes, but why is she saying it now, not 10 years ago?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 21, 2015 5:10 pm

Tenez wrote:To me he never looked as fit and as pumped up than in that AO12 v Federer and also AO 14.

I have been looking at clips of those 2 matches and it's obvious that there was something wrong with the conditions.

Federer's high skills, unequal eye/hand coordination pulling amazing shots after amazing shots being pass by Nadal whose only merit is to get to those winners and wack them back with plenty of time to spare.

I am sure the tennis world will look at it one day as the worst robbery in tennis history. well besides that of Wilander winning his first FO with 13mn long rallies versus Vilas.

It is very sad and frustrating to see tennis degenerate into an athletic discipline, unrecognisable from the early days.

Yes, it is a robbery, just like it's a robbery that double handed backhand was allowed.
To me, that was worse than doping.

DBH just made the door wide open for doping.

Wimbledon trophy in particular states it's for a Men's single-handed champion.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Thu May 21, 2015 5:27 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, but why is she saying it now, not 10 years ago

could be the powers that be wanting that counterbalance to Federers domination-  people in the industry under intense pressure to go along with it, turn a blind eye for the great good of the money side of the sport (I've seen this behind the scenes too many times to count) 

She might have even been deluded for a few years to the truth...   Now seeing the ups and downs-    the issues that I mentioned which to any athlete or anyone who has been around sports long enough and seen dopers- would be able to recognize,   might have finally pushed her to start opening her mouth.

or guilt at what has transpired causes her to subconsiously say the truth, then the want to keep my job conscious side says: oh, I better follow that up with i'm not really saying what you think i'm saying.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 21, 2015 5:32 pm

truffin1 wrote:It would be career suicide for her to flat out say he's been a doper-   no broadcaster can keep their job throwing one of the biggest stars in the sport under the bus and all the other issues that would mean- the sport being complacent, coverup ect..   The USA comms like herself, Courier especially during live commentating throw in little nuggets from time to time in regards to Nadal being a doper.  Usually with a laugh and a giggle as if it's a laughing matter.

I think Chrissie is about as clear as she can be about what she sees as Nadals doping---  though I see where someone on the other side of the coin will say-   "she's saying that she's not insinuating he's doping!"  It's all with a wink,wink  imo.

I said early this year that something was off with his regimen...  The sudden patchy unnatural hair loss, puffy one day/ gaunt the next, fitness issues.   I kept saying it looked like Peds toxic shock to me or he had done damage to his body by not properly cycling down.  Everything that has transpired since with his levels and coming back down to earth at the ripe old age of 28 bolster my opinion...  IMO..lol

Patrick McEnroe in this same interview feels that if Nadal loses the French and falls out of top 10- he's done.  doesn't think Nadal can change his game enough to compete, confidence will be shattered, etc.  Believes he will burn out quick..

Sure, she said it as close as she could without saying it....but at the end of the day no cigar. Just good to hear it from pros at time.

The only I know is that since applying a bit more rigourously that 25s rule nadal has struggled. His regular warnings and altercations with referees, especially v Bernardes, shows it is very important for him to grab those extra secs he does no longer have. That must certainly be affecting his confidence not knowing he will be able to fight the distance. I remember than even when he was taking 35s on average he was struggling to accumulate enough breathing.

This to me is his main problem. And if you look at the way he lost in Rome, trying to pull winners on his own serve while a break up, whereas in the past he woudl have been so happy to keep on rallying until his opponent gets legless. Now he is the one affected as his game is so dependant on that extra 45mn of breathing he was getting per match. He is simply asked to run the same distance, even at a faster pace, without being able to recuperate enough.

This is affecting him physically and of course psychologically. His shots have never required much precision so it cannot be his confidence alone.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu May 21, 2015 5:35 pm

It is in a way no different than in his 2007 Wimbledon final when in that 5th set, his FH is all over the place, missing the easiest FHs cause then the running fed forced him to do finally paid off in that last set. And we remember perfectly that year that referee had warned Nadal to take too much time at the beginning of the match.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:15 pm

One of our tennis opponent today said that he knows from good source that Nadal is now "clean" and that is why he doesn't last the distance anymore. Sponsors have apparently saved him again (he got caught again after FO 2014), at the conditions that he had to be clean for the rest of career otherwise they would drop him for good and his next negative test woudl be publicly announced.

I know it sounds a bit fishy...but that is what this guy was saying.

In the meatimes Wiggings at 35 breaks the world record of the hour!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:38 pm

Do tell more T about the Nadla thing. Who is he? How did he find out? Any contact there?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:42 pm

Unfortunately not. So this is why I would take this with a pinch of salt.

To me Nadal simply coudl not compete without dope. It's as simple as that. The reason he doesn't last is simply because they are stricter on the 25s rule.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:47 pm

So no chance I can contact them?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:53 pm

Essentially down to the fact it was a friendly discussion after a match. So I would not want to put the guy under stress because he shared some information. I am sure you can understand.

He would extremely surprised to receive an email or else asking to detail what he said.

But as this is your job, you are right to ask. Sooner or later the real stories will come out. We just have to be patient.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:58 pm

I have been speaking to someone from the guardian who said they would be interested in pciking up my tennis investigative work.
Fingers crossed!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:33 pm

That's really good. It's going to be tough to find some evidence though. have you asked/befriended the labs who test samples.

If I were you, I woudl contact this french anti-doping agent who was responsible for testing during the FO 09. That was teh exception year where French national agency was allowed to have their own blood testing along with WADA.

Of course players (Nadal) complained about it and the ITF did not allow that the following years.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:02 pm

This is an article trying to prove that the ITF were involved in a cover up... Winking

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:13 pm

hugh! any smoking gun?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:16 pm

Problem is it is a tad esoteric and doesn't jump out at you but they are deffo dodgy!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:17 pm

Tenez wrote:One of our tennis opponent today said that he knows from good source that Nadal is now "clean" and that is why he doesn't last the distance anymore. Sponsors have apparently saved him again (he got caught again after FO 2014), at the conditions that he had to be clean for the rest of career otherwise they would drop him for good and his next negative test woudl be publicly announced.

I know it sounds a bit fishy...but that is what this guy was saying.

In the meatimes Wiggings at 35 breaks the world record of the hour!
I've been saying since January that nadals body was going through toxic shock or some type of Peds withdrawal.  I would guess he's clean because his body/organs couldn't take it anymore-  I kept saying it-  the clumps of hair falling out, his appearance- all classic signs of the body rejecting or being poisoned to to the limit by the Peds.  I would agree with your guy that we are seeing what a clean nadal would have been in his career..

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:26 pm

truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:One of our tennis opponent today said that he knows from good source that Nadal is now "clean" and that is why he doesn't last the distance anymore. Sponsors have apparently saved him again (he got caught again after FO 2014), at the conditions that he had to be clean for the rest of career otherwise they would drop him for good and his next negative test woudl be publicly announced.

I know it sounds a bit fishy...but that is what this guy was saying.

In the meatimes Wiggings at 35 breaks the world record of the hour!
I've been saying since January that nadals body was going through toxic shock or some type of Peds withdrawal.  I would guess he's clean because his body/organs couldn't take it anymore-  I kept saying it-  the clumps of hair falling out, his appearance- all classic signs of the body rejecting or being poisoned to to the limit by the Peds.  I would agree with your guy that we are seeing what a clean nadal would have been in his career..
Do you know that steroids taken once can enhance your performance for a decade?

One day you will realise that without drugs nadal would have struggled making the top 50! Where would Nadal be without those biceps spinning the ball over 3000rpm?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:51 pm

Tenez wrote:
truffin1 wrote:
Tenez wrote:One of our tennis opponent today said that he knows from good source that Nadal is now "clean" and that is why he doesn't last the distance anymore. Sponsors have apparently saved him again (he got caught again after FO 2014), at the conditions that he had to be clean for the rest of career otherwise they would drop him for good and his next negative test woudl be publicly announced.

I know it sounds a bit fishy...but that is what this guy was saying.

In the meatimes Wiggings at 35 breaks the world record of the hour!
I've been saying since January that nadals body was going through toxic shock or some type of Peds withdrawal.  I would guess he's clean because his body/organs couldn't take it anymore-  I kept saying it-  the clumps of hair falling out, his appearance- all classic signs of the body rejecting or being poisoned to to the limit by the Peds.  I would agree with your guy that we are seeing what a clean nadal would have been in his career..
Do you know that steroids taken once can enhance your performance for a decade?

One day you will realise that without drugs nadal would have struggled making the top 50! Where would Nadal be without those biceps spinning the ball over 3000rpm?


Nadal didn't take steroids for a brief period and then coast for a decade though.. He was cycling in and out of Peds every year for years.  Caught once for sure that I know of 

I don't disagree with you that Nadal would be shell of himself without the peds.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:46 pm

This is what I was referring to Truff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151

I don't know the ins and outs of doping but I think steroids can be taken regularly to recover or heal but to me, it seems however pros take the main dose at the beginning of their career (while they are under the radar of fame). Nadal arrived on the scene very pumped up. And then had that period in post FO 2009 where he lost "volume" according to many commentators and players.

My point is when a winning game is 98% based on fitness, gauging how well a player woudl do without as much fitness is difficult but the margins are so thin in professional sport is that it is fair to say, it's everything or nothing. 36 06(v Federer WTF11) and beating fed in 4 a few weeks later.

I believe ben Johnson was at around the 10.40s mark without drugs......so number 50 in the world or so.

So to me Nadal without that initial muscle coat he put on in 04, I am not sure what he woudl have achieved. Not much in my view.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:28 pm

I'm not sure how accurate that article is in real life scenarios.. There are also vast varaieties of PEDS that prob aren't applicable to their experiment.  Maybe a brief exposure would help build muscle that you could keep naturally for a decade, but all dopers I've known and as far as I know all that I've read about that I didn't know personally did the classic repeated cycling up and down method.   Certainly Nadal did.  Anyone with a bit of understanding of the classic cycles could pick out Nadals over the years.  I've always seen it as a continiuous thing... but there is a point where the body can't take it anymore and that's what I saw in Nadal this year.

Hard to know what he would achieve. Most athletes that I know or have been around that used various methods of enhancement- whether it be boxing, football, basketball,  were at worst midlevel pros clean/starting out, or actually going to be quite good even if went the clean route.

It enhances what you have, not so much creates a world champion from a nobody. Otherwise, every athtlete that's ever doped would rise to the very very top.    

We've seen avg  baseball players like Bonds ( who had several years of playing clean to judge by) become legend record breakers on steroids, then retire immediately when caught.

and the flip side A Rod- who doped from the start and was a legend record breaker, caught- is now playing clean, and actually still playing at a hall of fame type level..


What's a midlevel pro tennis player ranked...........  could be 50's, could be 30's...I don't know where Nadal would be if he started clean- doesn't really matter because a cheats a cheat and shouldn't be anything.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:29 pm

To me it's clear that stroids can help over a many years. I believe this what Murray did when he was 19 under Gilbert and Michael Johnson supervision but we can also see how Coric suddenly bigged up. And of course they probably don;t stop there cause those muscles are nothing without the rich supply of red cells. It is teh increase of red cells which probably requires an up and down cycling.

I don;t mind cheats that much cause Nadal can always blame the cheaters before him for having to cheat himself. I never minded Coria or Korda cheating cause clearly, especially in Korda's case, he was essentially trying to catch up with the competition and therefore seeing the talent through the physical effort is very important. With Nadal the physical side is too important in his game to give any credit without it. And his poor prefromances everytime he is slightly under par simply confirms it....despite his decade-long muscle coat advantage.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:07 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33178292

More will come out about those 2012 olympics results....when the dust settles completely.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:25 am

A mate of mine with this great fb post.

"The dog ate my homework. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. I didn't hear the doorbell when those lovely people from the UK Anti Doping Agency turned up unannounced at my gaff one morning."

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:32 am

Yep....And in the meantimes real geniuses are probably going unnoticed!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:03 pm

Tenez wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33178292

More will come out about those 2012 olympics results....when the dust settles completely.

Not surprised in the least, of course.
As far as I am concerned there are no clean athletes in cycling and athletics.

For me, the intriguing bit is who and why gets to be picked as the occasional scapegoat.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by legendkillar on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:11 pm

luvsports! wrote:A mate of mine with this great fb post.

"The dog ate my homework. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. I didn't hear the doorbell when those lovely people from the UK Anti Doping Agency turned up unannounced at my gaff one morning."

Though if it was Quorn he would've answered!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:28 pm

Pitched my article to the Guardian.

Asked for a byline and money :O !

Fingers crossed it comes off, I was pretty happy with it. 

Down with the ITF!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:43 pm

let us know if it's published.....of course. good luck!

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:12 am

Bingo!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/33266238

I like the "...but it's our policy not to let anyone disturb our clients". How convenient!

How does that fit with Froome saying "I want more testing!" Does he mean more testing for the others?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Autumnleaf on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:46 pm

Ex-Bush aide confronted over Serena tweets

Poor guy is sweating and stammering here. Big Grin He only said what everybody knows. Winking

Wonder whether USADA will get serious about Serena anytime soon, it's getting ridiculous and completely unbelievable.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:32 pm

Panic room! Winking

Anyone remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZeAQRhb66U

Thoughts?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:56 pm

Oh yes I remember. Steroids certainly have not made her bald though Winking . She is muscular but she also has genes helping a lot in that respect. I agree she looks quite strong but I find it's probably an hindrance in her case than advantage. She is not particularly quick on her legs and she is one always trying to shorten rallies and uses the old natural gut strings which do not forgive a bad stroke.

So I am not 100% convinced here....though I think she is more likely to have used steroids than not. But again, they say steroids can be used once and you can benefit from it up to a decade later.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:41 pm

Tenez wrote:Oh yes I remember. Steroids certainly have not made her bald though Winking . She is muscular but she also has genes helping a lot in that respect. I agree she looks quite strong but I find it's probably an hindrance in her case than advantage. She is not particularly quick on her legs and she is one always trying to shorten rallies and uses the old natural gut strings which do not forgive a bad stroke.

So I am not 100% convinced here....though I think she is more likely to have used steroids than not. But again, they say steroids can be used once and you can benefit from it up to a decade later.

Yes, and despite all that bulk, she is always on the shot...I just don't know how she does it, was quite impressive in the final on Saturday.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:34 pm

Spoke with someone I've developed a friendship with at USTA via my volunteer regional coordinator position with our area USTA Adult leagues.  We were chatting and I asked him his opinion on Nadals struggles.  His answer "he's playing clean now"   I then told him about my observations at the beginning of the year (before anyone knew Nadal was going to drop so far) of what I saw as his body rejecting the years of abuse, toxic type shock,etc.  My thought that the body had just reached the point to where continuing to dope would harm his health too much and they either had to stop or come up with something new. 

He agreed I COULD be right and he saw the same thing, but he said that there was a lot of chatter after the  2014 French open in the inner workings of the sport that a huge star had failed "another" test as he heard it, and- of course- Nadals name was who everyone thought it was.....  

I believe Tenez- someone told you a similar thing?

Now seeing what has happened to Nadal.  The early year physical appearance, clumps of hair missing within a matter of months- I'm sure he was either going through withdrawel from being forced to go clean by the tour, or my original theory that his body just couldn't take it anymore and he was medically forced into stopping............  and now we see what Nadal is as a clean player.


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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:52 pm

truffin1 wrote:Spoke with someone I've developed a friendship with at USTA via my volunteer regional coordinator position with our area USTA Adult leagues.  We were chatting and I asked him his opinion on Nadals struggles.  His answer "he's playing clean now"   I then told him about my observations at the beginning of the year (before anyone knew Nadal was going to drop so far) of what I saw as his body rejecting the years of abuse, toxic type shock,etc.  My thought that the body had just reached the point to where continuing to dope would harm his health too much and they either had to stop or come up with something new. 

He agreed I COULD be right and he saw the same thing, but he said that there was a lot of chatter after the French open in the inner workings of the sport that a huge star had failed "another" test as he heard it, and- of course- Nadals name was who everyone thought it was.....  

I believe Tenez- someone told you a similar thing?

Now seeing what has happened to Nadal.  The early year physical appearance, clumps of hair missing within a matter of months- I'm sure he was either going through withdrawel from being forced to go clean by the tour, or my original theory that his body just couldn't take it anymore and he was medically forced into stopping............  and now we see what Nadal is as a clean player.
Interesting. Yes I remember someone from a different club who I played against saying that...but I certainly don't know how credible it was.

I however do not think Nadal is playing clean nor that keeping on doping worries his health. Adding red cells to one's blood is in essence not unhealthy. My take is that if Nadal were playing clean, he simply would not get passed 2 rounds...especially on clay. I just think that his game is not good enough now to keep up with the progress of the tour and that the 20s rule certainly affects him a lot. There is no point having more red cells if you cannot take the time to intake the oxygen carried by those red cells.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:08 pm

truffin1 wrote:Spoke with someone I've developed a friendship with at USTA via my volunteer regional coordinator position with our area USTA Adult leagues.  We were chatting and I asked him his opinion on Nadals struggles.  His answer "he's playing clean now"   I then told him about my observations at the beginning of the year (before anyone knew Nadal was going to drop so far) of what I saw as his body rejecting the years of abuse, toxic type shock,etc.  My thought that the body had just reached the point to where continuing to dope would harm his health too much and they either had to stop or come up with something new. 

He agreed I COULD be right and he saw the same thing, but he said that there was a lot of chatter after the French open in the inner workings of the sport that a huge star had failed "another" test as he heard it, and- of course- Nadals name was who everyone thought it was.....  

I believe Tenez- someone told you a similar thing?

Now seeing what has happened to Nadal.  The early year physical appearance, clumps of hair missing within a matter of months- I'm sure he was either going through withdrawel from being forced to go clean by the tour, or my original theory that his body just couldn't take it anymore and he was medically forced into stopping............  and now we see what Nadal is as a clean player.

Tenez's friend said Rafa's sponsors would drop him if he doped again (apaz after failing one during last year's FO win). 
Does that mean he was back at it or someone else?

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by truffin1 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:30 pm

luvsports! wrote:
truffin1 wrote:Spoke with someone I've developed a friendship with at USTA via my volunteer regional coordinator position with our area USTA Adult leagues.  We were chatting and I asked him his opinion on Nadals struggles.  His answer "he's playing clean now"   I then told him about my observations at the beginning of the year (before anyone knew Nadal was going to drop so far) of what I saw as his body rejecting the years of abuse, toxic type shock,etc.  My thought that the body had just reached the point to where continuing to dope would harm his health too much and they either had to stop or come up with something new. 

He agreed I COULD be right and he saw the same thing, but he said that there was a lot of chatter after the French open in the inner workings of the sport that a huge star had failed "another" test as he heard it, and- of course- Nadals name was who everyone thought it was.....  

I believe Tenez- someone told you a similar thing?

Now seeing what has happened to Nadal.  The early year physical appearance, clumps of hair missing within a matter of months- I'm sure he was either going through withdrawel from being forced to go clean by the tour, or my original theory that his body just couldn't take it anymore and he was medically forced into stopping............  and now we see what Nadal is as a clean player.

Tenez's friend said Rafa's sponsors would drop him if he doped again (apaz after failing one during last year's FO win). 
Does that mean he was back at it or someone else?

Don't know- I would think if he promised to go clean that the sponsors would stick with him though.   They look as bad as he does if exposed.

Everything I have seen or witnessed in sports with doping tells me that something was going on with Nadals body early this year.  Whether it was beign forced to go clean (which btw would also affect his confidence since he has no idea how to play clean and would be worried that he can't get near what he was without the stuff), or whether his body just couldn't take it anymore-  something changed... and we've seen the results since...........

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by luvsports! on Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:03 am

Ok so my long investigation came to nothing over a press release on the Cilic case.
Basically they are shite, the ITF, but at present not found anything illicit. 

Got some great quotes from a world leading anti doping expert, Don Catlin which I can use as I continue to dig!

One case I found that is interesting. 

"That lack of trust is heightened when you consider the case of Fernando Romboli, now ranked 328th in the world.
Under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme, a player can be exonerated of their crime after serving a voluntary provisional suspension and the public will never hear about it at all.
In a press release in May 2013, the ITF announced that the Brazilian had failed a drugs test, for two banned diuretics, in September 2012.
In that very same press release it was declared that Romboli had now been reinstated to the tour after he opted to accept a provisional suspension until a verdict was reached. 
If Romboli, now 26, had been absolved, the public would be none the wiser; rather he would have slotted back into the lifestyle of an ATP player and there would be no explanation as to why he had taken a nine month sabbatical.
Although this is slightly surreptitious, Dr Miller said this is complying with the WADA code.
This raises the question of whether or not players cite a so-called ‘injury’ when they are actually serving a doping ban. Where is the transparency?"

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:51 am

Don't despair, LS!
Looks like you need to be in this one for a long haul...you may end up as Hemingway's Old Man And The Sea.

I believe no work is wasted and for no reason, just be patient.


ATP is looking more and more like Cosa Nostra!
The way it's run is rotten, but they are no different from any other business.

Who wants to open their cupboard and show off their skeletons?

Your findings have confirmed how they operate, at least....silent bans etc.

Which explains why Cilic who tested positive got his ban reduced to 4 months and Troicki who didn't test positive served the entire year.
He must've told them where to stick it. Cool

And good of Nole to have stood by him in those difficult times, and confronted toad Miller.

They are all in it....it's just that some seem to have more protection than the others, but then again, when was life fair?

Bottom line, tennis is suffering and SBH dying.

Everything else is lies & shades of grey.

"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them."

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:02 pm

luvsports! wrote:Ok so my long investigation came to nothing over a press release on the Cilic case.
Basically they are shite, the ITF, but at present not found anything illicit. 

Got some great quotes from a world leading anti doping expert, Don Catlin which I can use as I continue to dig!

One case I found that is interesting. 

"That lack of trust is heightened when you consider the case of Fernando Romboli, now ranked 328th in the world.
Under the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme, a player can be exonerated of their crime after serving a voluntary provisional suspension and the public will never hear about it at all.
In a press release in May 2013, the ITF announced that the Brazilian had failed a drugs test, for two banned diuretics, in September 2012.
In that very same press release it was declared that Romboli had now been reinstated to the tour after he opted to accept a provisional suspension until a verdict was reached. 
If Romboli, now 26, had been absolved, the public would be none the wiser; rather he would have slotted back into the lifestyle of an ATP player and there would be no explanation as to why he had taken a nine month sabbatical.
Although this is slightly surreptitious, Dr Miller said this is complying with the WADA code.
This raises the question of whether or not players cite a so-called ‘injury’ when they are actually serving a doping ban. Where is the transparency?"
This is a clear demo of silent bans.

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:35 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33749208

"A third of medals (146, including 55 golds) in endurance events at the Olympics and World Championships between 2001 and 2012 were won by athletes who have recorded suspicious tests. It is claimed none of these athletes have been stripped of their medals.
More than 800 athletes - one in seven of those named in the files - have recorded blood tests described by one of the experts as "highly suggestive of doping or at the very least abnormal".
A top UK athlete is among seven Britons with suspicious blood scores.
British athletes - including Olympic champion heptathlete Jessica Ennis-Hill - have lost out in major events to competitors who were under suspicion.
Ten medals at London 2012 were won by athletes who have dubious test results.
In some finals, every athlete in the three medal positions had recorded a suspicious blood test.
Russia emerges as "the blood testing epicentre of the world" with more than 80% of the country's medals won by suspicious athletes, while Kenya had 18 medals won by suspicious athletes.
Stars such as Britain's Mo Farah and Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt recorded no abnormal results.
Athletes are increasingly using blood transfusions and EPO micro-doses to boost the red cell count.


Really?
Only Russia?
Not USA, not Spain, not UK?  

What a farce.....

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:28 am

^^ I saw the documentary that was done by German television (Hajo Seppelt), the same guy who earlier did the documentary on Russia.

He got that file from a whistleblower inside IAAF and because it was too large to evaluate the data all by himself he enlisted the help of British media. Unfortunately they emphasized a different point. "Mo Farah and Bolt didn't record suspicious values." This wasn't even mentioned in the documentary, because it is of no value. It does NOT prove that they are clean, which should have been mentioned by the British media.

The Kenyan and the Russian athletes seemed to be on ridiculuosly bad programms. They digged up the story of one Kenyan runner who had died during a marathon, very likely as a consequence of EPO. These guys put their lifes on risk to escape poverty and take drugs with the help of shady doctors that don't seem to supervise them in a sufficient way. Kenyan sporting authorities turn a blind eye for money from athlete sponsors (Nike) which was also shown in the documentary. They even gave out starting permissions for athletes who got busted by IAAF and should have been banned.

Russian athletes were heard on tape when they were given rather nebulous advice. ("Take EPO, but not too much!") I imagine that a Western professional athlete would be more sophisticated than that.

In the documentary they used the data just to determine the likely prevalence of doping and the numbers were very similar or even worse than in comparable years in cycling. What's worse is that IAAF didn't act on these data.

However, cases like this must make the international sport organizations shake with fear, because these documents somehow found their way to journalists who were prepared to publish them. In times when even government documents can't be kept secret, there's a lot of hope that sporting organizations will be found out too. 

It's what we would need - a whistleblower from ITF.

ETA: Re Russia
Russia IS a doping hotspot without a question. It's a different dimension when doping programmes are sponsored and protected by the government and the national ADA has the task to test athletes to make sure they don't show suspicious values before international tournaments. There are some other countries I suspect of this or at the very least turn a very blind eye to their own athletes, mostly right before big sporting events in that country. In the past countries that organized the Olympics somehow managed to turn out world class athletes right before the start of the event, even when they had never been successful previously in those sports. Of course it's just better enhancement of young talent. Winking

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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:30 pm


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Re: The doping program joke of the ITF!!!

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:05 pm

Interesting article about sprinters!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34089451

In particular that part:

Sam Allen says the fastest sprinters seem to be spend about 60% of the time in the air, with no foot on the ground, while for amateur athletes it's more like 50%.

But even among top sprinters, Bolt stands out, and this is partly because of his height.
"Bolt is a genetic freak because being 6ft 5ins tall means he shouldn't be able to accelerate at the speed he does given the length of his legs," says former Great Britain sprinter Craig Pickering.
==========================================
Yep....we know how those "genetic freaks" come from nowadays!

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