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Happy Valentine's Day!

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Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:25 pm

The thing that
got me thinking about Valentine's day and writing this was horrible news
I've just read: Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend dead.
She was trying to give him a Valentine's Day surprise and he thought it was a burglar so he shot her dead, what a tragedy!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2278472/Oscar-Pistorius-charged-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp-dead.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21459240


For the rest of us here's a song I stumbled across on tennis.com last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RQih07K41BI

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:30 pm

It's not an accident as I suspected in the thread I wrote earlier. It seems to have shoot her purposedly which is really weird and sad considering he had been dating for 2 months only .
I understand that long time relatonships can go wrong with love/hate/drama....but with just 2 months in it...I cannot quite explain what must have gone through his mind.
Possibly a case of roids rage.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:32 pm

I don't know...but horrible. I reserve the right to pass any judgement at this stage, all we know it took place between 4 and 5 AM there, and you know what South Africa is like for crime, plus the guy probably takes his "legs"off at night, so if it was a genuine suspicion of burglary, you can imagine why a legless, helpless guy would pull the trigger in a state of panic fast.
That kind of thing over there is normal.
Still a terrible tragedy. Poor girl and her family.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:14 pm

I was just about to start a thread about this
It wasnt because he thought she was a burglar,the police are now claiming they have been called out to their address for domestic violence before
he is now being charged with murder and the district attorney is pushing for no bail
This has shocked me beyond words,I am originally from South African and went to school in Pretoria so this has really upset me
The fact that it seems the evidence is pointing towards murder rather then manslaughter,self defence or an accident is hard to believe
Oscar is the last person I would ever have expected such violence from as his character is a lot like Federer
I am finding it very hard to believe that he would just murder someone like that...could be that his wife was the kind of person who liked to provoke him
This is going to be like another OJ Simpson trial

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:58 pm

She wasn't even his wife, just a girlfriend of two months, so they should have been in their honeymoon phase....it is bizarre that they already had "domestics", makes yo wonder why people waste time with each other like that if they can't get on even in the very early stages of a relationship.

I don' t know much about him, except for the media coverage from the Olympics and a bit from when Nole met him at last year's Laureus' Awards ceremony.

Problem is media will now blow it out or proportion, but it certainly looks a very dodgy scenario, with an equally tragic ending for a young woman.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Youre right about the media,they just release incorrect information without thinking about the consequences
I have already read several different stories about this incident
I read somewhere that she was his wife,now youre telling me its his Gf and they werent even together for more then 2 months
If thats the case then that makes it even stranger
I guess all we can conclude is that if he is being charged with murder then it means that either they have enough evidence to prove it or that Oscar confessed to them in his statement about exactly what happened
There has to be more to this story..why would anyone just murder someone,why did he have a gun on him?
It just seems illogical that someone would murder a person just so they can go to jail or call the police....normally a murderer would run away,if it was somehow an accident or he was provoked it would make more sense


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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:14 pm

No idea, we'll find out more soon, I suppose. I thought everyone in SA carries gun as the crime rate is awful.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:18 pm

You wouldn't carry a gun on you in your house,most people who have one keep it in their car incase they get highjacked,or its stored somewhere safe in their house,so why did he have it on him or take it out of wherever he stores it?
Pretoria is a lot safer then Johannesburg,you dont really need a gun there

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:28 pm


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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:54 pm

Veejay wrote:I was just about to start a thread about this
It wasnt because he thought she was a burglar,the police are now claiming they have been called out to their address for domestic violence before
he is now being charged with murder and the district attorney is pushing for no bail
This has shocked me beyond words,I am originally from South African and went to school in Pretoria so this has really upset me
The fact that it seems the evidence is pointing towards murder rather then manslaughter,self defence or an accident is hard to believe
Oscar is the last person I would ever have expected such violence from as his character is a lot like Federer
I am finding it very hard to believe that he would just murder someone like that...could be that his wife was the kind of person who liked to provoke him
This is going to be like another OJ Simpson trial
This is why I think this coudl simply be the result of drugs. recreational or else. Drugs can get the worst out of people.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:56 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Problem is media will now blow it out or proportion, but it certainly looks a very dodgy scenario, with an equally tragic ending for a young woman.
Well on that occasion the media do have a real bizarre story.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:18 am

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:I was just about to start a thread about this
It wasnt because he thought she was a burglar,the police are now claiming they have been called out to their address for domestic violence before
he is now being charged with murder and the district attorney is pushing for no bail
This has shocked me beyond words,I am originally from South African and went to school in Pretoria so this has really upset me
The fact that it seems the evidence is pointing towards murder rather then manslaughter,self defence or an accident is hard to believe
Oscar is the last person I would ever have expected such violence from as his character is a lot like Federer
I am finding it very hard to believe that he would just murder someone like that...could be that his wife was the kind of person who liked to provoke him
This is going to be like another OJ Simpson trial
This is why I think this coudl simply be the result of drugs. recreational or else. Drugs can get the worst out of people.
Maybe youre right,the police officer who gave the press conference claimed that they have been called out to his house on several occasions for domestic violence
Possible drugs or acohol abuse is the only thing that makes sense to me.South Africa has a huge drug culture,a lot of meth is made there,weed grows there easily and drugs like Methadrone was created there from plant/stem that has just been recently banned here called khat
Thinking about it,I could actually quite easily see someone pull a trigger without even blinking on meth and I could see how someone on meth could easily become violent and insanely paranoid to such an extent that they would believe their crazy paranoid thoughts is reality
When ever crystal is involved in a relationship,theres usually domestic violence

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:25 am

Sad story for sure. In france a famous singer also killed his girlfriend (a famous actress) a few years ago....and it was again drugs and alcohol to blame.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:40 am

I guess we will just have to wait for the full story to come out,but I still find it hard to believe that he could do such a thing even if he was on drugs
How can someone be so disciplined in sport and have no mental control over themselves even of they were on every recreational drug all at the same time, its a bit hard to grasp how someone like Oscar could loose all sense of right and wrong,unless I misjudged his true nature which only surfaces when he is under the influence of drugs or alcohol
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything and you think you know a person

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:47 am

Veejay wrote:I guess we will just have to wait for the full story to come out,but I still find it hard to believe that he could do such a thing even if he was on drugs
How can someone be so disciplined in sport and have no mental control over themselves even of they were on every recreational drug all at the same time, its a bit hard to grasp how someone like Oscar could loose all sense of right and wrong,unless I misjudged his true nature which only surfaces when he is under the influence of drugs or alcohol
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything and you think you know a person

Abslutely!
There but by the grace of God go we all.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Veejay wrote:I
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything and you think you know a person
Well in fact knowing oneself is even harder. The sad truth is that under the wrongs circumstances, we could all do such things...but luckily the vast majority of us won't be exposed to such circumstances.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:52 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:I
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything and you think you know a person
Well in fact knowing oneself is even harder. The sad truth is that under the wrongs circumstances, we could all do such things...but luckily the vast majority of us won't be exposed to such circumstances.

I agree,desperate times calls for desperate measures and anyone is capable of temporary insanity.In fact I dont think we really know ourselves until we have been tested in that way
It seems that Oscar was gun crazy,its reported that he has several guns
In my opinion,that is a recipe for this kind of situation,its looking for trouble cause i believe that accidents or situations like this can be prevented when you dont play with fire

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:10 pm

Veejay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:I
Just goes to show that anyone is capable of anything and you think you know a person
Well in fact knowing oneself is even harder. The sad truth is that under the wrongs circumstances, we could all do such things...but luckily the vast majority of us won't be exposed to such circumstances.

I agree,desperate times calls for desperate measures and anyone is capable of temporary insanity.In fact I dont think we really know ourselves until we have been tested in that way
It seems that Oscar was gun crazy,its reported that he has several guns
In my opinion,that is a recipe for this kind of situation,its looking for trouble cause i believe that accidents or situations like this can be prevented when you dont play with fire
You see..I love guns too...but for that reason I don't have any.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:26 pm

What is his defence going to be cause Im guessing he is pleading not guilty but the prosecutors believe it was premeditated which conflicts claiming temporary insanity
It doesnt look like he is being given any preferential treatment now but I wonder what the verdict will be if its decided by a jury
Oscar is easily the most loved and famous South African,this really hurts him cause if he is acquitted people will claim the trail was farce,the verdict was bought or jury tampering
It will only seem like the trail is fair if he is found guilty cause being acquitted wont look good even if he is innocent by means of temporary insanity

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:37 pm

They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Tenez wrote:They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.

so it turns out he did murder her...in the shower!
Very bad.
So he gets 6-7 years for "good" behaviour, probably gets a book deal, and the young woman loses 50 years of hers.....

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:13 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.

so it turns out he did murder her...in the shower!
Very bad.
So he gets 6-7 years for "good" behaviour, probably gets a book deal, and the young woman loses 50 years of hers.....

I dont get it,what was his motive?

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:18 pm

She did not leave him any shampoo.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:20 pm

Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.

so it turns out he did murder her...in the shower!
Very bad.
So he gets 6-7 years for "good" behaviour, probably gets a book deal, and the young woman loses 50 years of hers.....

I dont get it,what was his motive?

Whatever it was, nobody deserved to be shot in the head several times....I have zero respect for men who lay their hand on a woman. They are the biggest cowards.

Even if you think of the worst possible scenario (whatever it may be), no excuse. He also turns out to now have history of violent behaviour that was swept under the caret because of his celebrity status....

I also don't get an athlete that has the need for any kind of drugs. Don't they say: healthy mind in a healthy body....

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:31 pm

Tenez wrote:They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.
Im pretty sure that if he pleads guilty,that there wont be a case and he will just be immediately sentenced,but there will be a case if he pleads not guilty
Seeing that his lawyers are trying to get him out on bail,it looks like there will be a trail which means that there is a possibility he could be acquitted
Oscar has friends in very powerful positions in South Africa,it goes all the way to the president and the current ANC administration is about as corrupt as they come,he could bride his way out of this quite easily

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Yes maybe but SA doesn't want to be seen as too corrupt a country on the international scene so there is limitation to what the powerful people can do to save him. At the end of the day he is only an athlete, not a politician or businesman whose 1000s of people jobs depend on.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:48 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:They cannot acquit him. He is going to be jailed for a few years hopefully....maybe he will have a reduced sentence like 6 or 7 years...but they cannot let him go that easily....it does not matter how much he is loved in SA....and I bet he is a bit less "loved" today.

so it turns out he did murder her...in the shower!
Very bad.
So he gets 6-7 years for "good" behaviour, probably gets a book deal, and the young woman loses 50 years of hers.....

I dont get it,what was his motive?

Whatever it was, nobody deserved to be shot in the head several times....I have zero respect for men who lay their hand on a woman. They are the biggest cowards.

Even if you think of the worst possible scenario (whatever it may be), no excuse. He also turns out to now have history of violent behaviour that was swept under the caret because of his celebrity status....

I also don't get an athlete that has the need for any kind of drugs. Don't they say: healthy mind in a healthy body....

The thing about premeditated murder is that the murderer does it in a way that they hopefully wont get caught,Oscar just murdered someone without even thinking ahead,if it was done in the heat of the moment then thats not premeditated
It couldnt have been premeditated if he was on drugs cause premeditated suggest that the accused is sane and sober while plotting to murder someone

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:55 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes maybe but SA doesn't want to be seen as too corrupt a country on the international scene so there is limitation to what the powerful people can do to save him. At the end of the day he is only an athlete, not a politician or businesman whose 1000s of people jobs depend on.
Youd be surprised how short sighted the people who are in power there are,I would be surprised if they even bother to think that far ahead and worry about being branded a corrupt nation
The president allegedly raped an HIV+ women without protection and thought he could wash the decease off by taking a shower
They are now taking about doing the same as what happened in Zimbabwe,take the land from the famers and redistribute it among the Africans who have no experience in farming

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:19 pm

Veejay wrote:They are now taking about doing the same as what happened in Zimbabwe,take the land from the famers and redistribute it among the Africans who have no experience in farming
That's an interesting subject. I don;t think it's as black and white as we are told regarding Zimbabwe for instance.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:They are now taking about doing the same as what happened in Zimbabwe,take the land from the famers and redistribute it among the Africans who have no experience in farming
That's an interesting subject. I don;t think it's as black and white as we are told regarding Zimbabwe for instance.

What do you mean?

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:49 pm

I mean it takes time to get a country organised and learn by themselves how to run it. What made Zimb's wealth was the fact those running those farms (white people generally) had all the contacts in the western world and could sell their products at very competitive prices in Europe and US at the expense of our western and African work force. So it was in essence benifitting the white rich farmers and the supermarket owners and resellers in Europe...the people doing the hard work in Africa and Europe suffered....and still do as the resellers found other channls now to exploit. The day Mugabe decided to give the land back to black people it was certain they were going to lose all their western distribution channels where the money was really coming from. ...and therefore they have now to learn how and what to grow and who to sell it too. It's going to take years but it's their lessons, their land their experience....like all countries learnt in the past.....including England, France and all free nations.
This is an unsophisticated, short explanation of my views in those colonial matters but meant to expose another side of the told stories here.

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Veejay on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:46 pm

What youre saying about the trading side is very true,but what they should have done in Zimbabwe was educate the Africans rather then just exploit them because its cheap labour
I dont know much about Zimbabwe apart from what I have been told,which is that when the Africans took the land back from the famers,they didnt know how to farm.Mugabe also had the famers and opposing political parties slaughtered
Its a very similar situation in South Africa with affirmative action,now if the boers had just educated the Africans they wouldn't have a bunch of unqualified inexperienced people replacing them.There is also this " kill the boor" attitude,if they kill the famers,who is going to farm the land?
Europe and the States has exploited Africa for centuries,most African countries are in such deep debt that they could never ever repay so they end up having to sell their natural resources dirt cheap
the Americans are pretty ruthless cause they bankrupt a country and then send in an economic hitman to make sure that they get the cream of the crop, if a country wishes to use its natural recourses or agriculture to benefit their native country and to improve their lives,the Americans will import products they get dirt cheap from another country that they exploit and undercut their competitor which guarantees to corner the market and put their competitor out of business
South Africas main trader is China and they dont really do business the way the Americans do,so it would be disastrous if the land was taken from the farmers and given to the Africans who know nothing about farming

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Re: Happy Valentine's Day!

Post by Tenez on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:56 am

Veejay wrote:What youre saying about the trading side is very true,but what they should have done in Zimbabwe was educate the Africans rather then just exploit them because its cheap labour

Who should have? The white farmers? That was certainly not in their interest. Plus it's about buying machinery, fertiliser, etc...which black farmers cannot afford.

I dont know much about Zimbabwe apart from what I have been told,which is that when the Africans took the land back from the famers,they didnt know how to farm.Mugabe also had the famers and opposing political parties slaughtered
I don't know much either about Zimb but I do not think it is that different from all the other colonies. People have to learn by themselves and through their own ways. Ultimately I think Mugabe cared more about the average black african than the rich white farmers despite the latters giving them a better way of life in the short term, but a form of slavery and dependancy in the long term.

Its a very similar situation in South Africa with affirmative action,now if the boers had just educated the Africans they wouldn't have a bunch of unqualified inexperienced people replacing them.There is also this " kill the boor" attitude,if they kill the famers,who is g oing to farm the land?
There you go....a similar decolonisation to some extend. The thing is colonisation was actually a positve experience for all...despite all the bad sides. It's simply experience (from both sides) and de-colonisation is good too and a must at the end.

Europe and the States has exploited Africa for centuries,most African countries are in such deep debt that they could never ever repay so they end up having to sell their natural resources dirt cheap
Helped by their corrupted politicians supported by us again. It's all a learning curve as we also are governed by the wrong people and institutions.

the Americans are pretty ruthless cause they bankrupt a country and then send in an economic hitman to make sure that they get the cream of the crop, if a country wishes to use its natural recourses or agriculture to benefit their native country and to improve their lives,the Americans will import products they get dirt cheap from another country that they exploit and undercut their competitor which guarantees to corner the market and put their competitor out of business
Very true but I doubt the Chinese will be any more compassionate about African people.
South Africas main trader is China and they dont really do business the way the Americans do,so it would be disastrous if the land was taken from the farmers and given to the Africans who know nothing about farming
but that is the only way forward. Growing vegs is not rocket science. Africans are well capable of it but it is the politics above them which is rotten.

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