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ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

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ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Twenty children and six adults have been killed in a shooting attack at a primary school in the US state of Connecticut.

Earlier, the gunman was killed.

There is also a dead adult at a second crime scene.
President Obama says 'our hearts are broken today' as he pays tribute to the victims

bbc.co.uk/news/20734267


So sad...it happens way too often in the States and now almost a week before Christmas Sad


Last edited by Veejay on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by ... on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:31 pm

Very sad, indeed.
So much hatred, so little love.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:35 pm

The shooter killed his father first then went to the school where his mother taught,shot her and then another 20 school kids..kids under 16!!!
Disgraceful!!

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by ... on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:09 pm

People do foolish and horrible things in the heat of the moment.

They happen all the time even when we sleep, just that most are not "attractive" enough for TV news.

Children in prostitution, drug addicts, madman shooting children, wars... all going on somewhere even as I am typing this, the world is brimming with sadness.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:41 pm

The thing that upsets me the most is the backlash,I am not in favour of this gun culture at all,but using guns as a scape goat annoys me,cause guns don't kill people,people kill people
Calling for guns to be banned wont stop someone from committing a gun related crime,where there is a will there is a way so a murderer will just use a gun illegally or find another way to kill someone
People need to look at the source of the problem,look at the social problems that would lead someone to committing such a crime,address that instead of blaming guns blame the people who commit the crimes


Last edited by Veejay on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Larry Ellison on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:08 pm

Veejay, I agree with you that the social side of it needs to be looked at.
It's very clear this killer was irrational, and almost certainly a sadisitic madman.
Society can try to act against this, firstly I think the psychiatric + health care should be made free, so they can be treated beforehand. Of course even this is very difficult to apply 100%, picking up the signs for a specific person is very difficult.

However as well as this I think now, more than ever, the USA needs stricter gun laws, and to be honest I think if guns had been completely banned over the past few decades a lot of lives would have been saved.
You say 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' but I think this almost completely misses the point. The accessibility in the some parts of the USA to guns is far too much. The guns used in the tragedy yesterday were guns of the killer's mother, who would have passed all the checks (tragically she was also killed yesterday).

You also say they will 'find another way to kill someone' but this is a ridiculously flawed point, you are missing the bigger picture. It is much easier to massacre more people with guns, rather than knives. You can run from knives, you can't run from a guy with a gun. With a gun you can kill many more people more quickly. The damage done is also worse.
Last week there was a madman in China, who went into a school in an attempt to kill. He only had a knife, and although he injured many, he could not kill anyone. If that guy had a gun in his hand, those Chinese children would be dead.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by ... on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:22 pm

Veejay wrote:The thing that upsets me the most is the backlash,I am not in favour of this gun culture at all,but using guns as a scape goat annoys me,cause guns don't kill people,people kill people
Calling for guns to be banned wont stop someone from committing a gun related crime,where there is a will there is a way so a murderer will just use a gun illegally or find another way to kill someone
People need to look at the source of the problem,look at the social problems that would lead someone to committing such a crime,address that instead of blaming guns and instead of the people who commit the crimes

The source of the problem is as old as the hills: it's called sin. Modern society doesn't know how to deal with it as it produces more lenient laws, UK is a classic example where if you kill or injure a burglar in your own house it's you who'll be going to prison, not the burglar.

Tony Martin's case from 10+ years ago is a "good" example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Larry Ellison on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:26 pm

No NITB, I'm afraid you're wrong on the burglar issue (for the UK anyway):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19879314

Tories now say you are allowed to use force against buglers, who 'lose their rights when they come to burgle in your house.' Certainly I agree with him there.

Overall I say having the laws and constitution makes more sense to be compared to what we had in medieval times, where religions made up mythical beings in order to try and instill fear within people (so the people high up in religion have more power). They also used similar methods to extort money from people.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by ... on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Yes, unfortunately churches have done a lot of damage to Christianity and that always saddens me greatly, particularly catholic church, as the old saying goes" show me a poor country and I'll show you a rich catholic church.

Dark Ages are not called dark for nothing.

Even today, 9 out of 10 churches (of all denominations) are a turn-off simply because they don't preach from the Bible, and if they read a bit from it it quickly turns out into a social message. It's very difficult to find a good church these days and I am not surprised that people have such cynical view of it.

If you look at the Old Testament and the Law of Moses you could see that there were no prisons in those days, you'd have to have two witnesses and that would be enough.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Larry Ellison on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Yes, unfortunately churches have done a lot of damage to Christianity and that always saddens me greatly, particularly catholic church, as the old saying goes" show me a poor country and I'll show you a rich catholic church.

Dark Ages are not called dark for nothing.

Even today, 9 out of 10 churches (of all denominations) are a turn-off simply because they don't preach from the Bible, and if they read a bit from it it quickly turns out into a social message. It's very difficult to find a good church these days and I am not surprised that people have such cynical view of it.
Yes, I agree with your viewpoint there, many people have had their money extorted by the church over the past millennium. Now less so, as people open their eyes and are more aware.

noleisthebest wrote:
If you look at the Old Testament and the Law of Moses you could see that there were no prisons in those days, you'd have to have two witnesses and that would be enough.
Two witnesses?
What happens if there was only one witness to a crime, or no surviving witnesses?
Or the witnesses were lying to help their friend?
I trust the legal system much more than the bible, which was written millenniums ago.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:50 pm

Amritia3ee wrote:Veejay, I agree with you that the social side of it needs to be looked at.
It's very clear this killer was irrational, and almost certainly a sadisitic madman.
Society can try to act against this, firstly I think the psychiatric + health care should be made free, so they can be treated beforehand. Of course even this is very difficult to apply 100%, picking up the signs for a specific person is very difficult.

However as well as this I think now, more than ever, the USA needs stricter gun laws, and to be honest I think if guns had been completely banned over the past few decades a lot of lives would have been saved.
You say 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' but I think this almost completely misses the point. The accessibility in the some parts of the USA to guns is far too much. The guns used in the tragedy yesterday were guns of the killer's mother, who would have passed all the checks (tragically she was also killed yesterday).

You also say they will 'find another way to kill someone' but this is a ridiculously flawed point, you are missing the bigger picture. It is much easier to massacre more people with guns, rather than knives. You can run from knives, you can't run from a guy with a gun. With a gun you can kill many more people more quickly. The damage done is also worse.
Last week there was a madman in China, who went into a school in an attempt to kill. He only had a knife, and although he injured many, he could not kill anyone. If that guy had a gun in his hand, those Chinese children would be dead.

I agree with you,the problem with the guns is that its too easily available in the States.I remember the massacre in Columbine,the documentary that Michael Moore made claimed the guy just bought it off the internet without any problem.He was under age and I believe he used his parents credit card.They need to enforce stricter laws for purchasing guns,but even if they do it doesnt stop a kid from using his fathers gun.
My point about murdering someone is not flawed because the point is and has always been -where there is a will there is a way.So banning guns won't stop someone from murdering another person,there are gun crimes in countries where guns are illegal and there are other ways of killing people then using guns.So the banning guns wont stop murders,it may stop a blood bath but even then I recall a bunch of Nigerians slaughtering male prostitutes in a gay brother in Cape Town a few years back,it was front page news here..they walked in a slit all the boys throats with only 1 survivor jumping out the toilet window-no guns involved
Switzerland is one of the most heavily armed countries in the world where every household is armed but crimes like this massacre are unheard of with only 34 gun related deaths last year.Canada is another country where guns are legal with 52 gun related deaths last year.The States had 10758 death last year.So clearly guns arent to blame,its people who commit the crimes
I would rather guns not be legal,but my argument is that its stupid to blame guns and call for them to be banned and think that that will solve the problem
You have to address the social problems that will lead someone to commit such a crime

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:52 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:The thing that upsets me the most is the backlash,I am not in favour of this gun culture at all,but using guns as a scape goat annoys me,cause guns don't kill people,people kill people
Calling for guns to be banned wont stop someone from committing a gun related crime,where there is a will there is a way so a murderer will just use a gun illegally or find another way to kill someone
People need to look at the source of the problem,look at the social problems that would lead someone to committing such a crime,address that instead of blaming guns and instead of the people who commit the crimes

The source of the problem is as old as the hills: it's called sin. Modern society doesn't know how to deal with it as it produces more lenient laws, UK is a classic example where if you kill or injure a burglar in your own house it's you who'll be going to prison, not the burglar.

Tony Martin's case from 10+ years ago is a "good" example.


I dont know if thats true in the U.K but it certainly is true in Canada.If a burglar injured themselves in your house,they could sue you and win cause your house wasnt "burglar friendly" enough Doh

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Veejay on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Feeling sick after reading the papers today...who shoots 5/6 years olds multiple times??!!

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Tenez on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:39 pm

I was not aware of all those news thread as I rarely go to the home page.

I am going to catch up with those....including to teh Gangnam one.

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by ... on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Tenez wrote:I was not aware of all those news thread as I rarely go to the home page.

I am going to catch up with those....including to teh Gangnam one.

especially the Gangnam one...what a timely coincidence....

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

Post by Tenez on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:46 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:I was not aware of all those news thread as I rarely go to the home page.

I am going to catch up with those....including to teh Gangnam one.

especially the Gangnam one...what a timely coincidence....

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Re: ANOTHER U.S SHOOTING

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