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Boris Becker-frank or sour grapes?

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Boris Becker-frank or sour grapes? - Page 2 Empty Re: Boris Becker-frank or sour grapes?

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:32 pm

Veejay wrote:
You raise very a good and valid point about how much more physical the game has become,but its an interesting thought to question when just thinking about shotmaking

I think shotmaking wise we still have great talents...and I don;t mean Federer only. STepanek, Almagro, Llodra, Blake, Nalbandian, Gasquet, Garcia-Lopez, YOuzhny, DOlgo, etc...are in my view as gifted if not more than the 90s and 80s players. The problem is that they are not at the top of the game cause their skills and talent is of not much use unless you have so much of it like Federer that you can keep with the top physical players.

I agree that the technology simply helps keep the ball in court but look at Llodra, he is effectively still playing with 1990s material...and he is doing very well. Put Pete, Edberg or Becker in the same situtation and they go nowhere nowadays....I mean not better than Llodra.

I know its impossible to be sure as ROTLA raised a very valid point that theres no guarantee that anyone would be better with racket technology just as theres no guarantee anyone would as good given a wooden racket..but it is nice to debate and consider the different variables

I woudl say that the pool of players playing the game professionally is probably double if not triple the number of 80s and 90s, so chances are that we are more likely to find better talents now than then....material is almost irrelevant cause it;s the same for all.

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Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:37 pm

noleisthebest wrote:As we saw in Davis Cup, speeding the courts does not kill defensive game, but it certainly helps attacking and it's fair that both have the chance on a tennis court.

fast courts with fast balls (Babolat FO11 for instance) and it completely changes the game. If you think about it, even in the early 90s Chang could beat Pete on any surface. So we will always have guys like Ferrer difficult to beat on any surface...bar grass and fast balls. There there waas no Chang, no Wilander, No Bruguera past the 1/4F.

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Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:39 pm

luvsports! wrote:pretty impressive that ferrer, not known for his fast court prowess, didn't drop a set on a fast court.

I also think he is mentally stronger than the other players of that DC final.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:57 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:As we saw in Davis Cup, speeding the courts does not kill defensive game, but it certainly helps attacking and it's fair that both have the chance on a tennis court.

fast courts with fast balls (Babolat FO11 for instance) and it completely changes the game. If you think about it, even in the early 90s Chang could beat Pete on any surface. So we will always have guys like Ferrer difficult to beat on any surface...bar grass and fast balls. There there waas no Chang, no Wilander, No Bruguera past the 1/4F.

I hope those changes happen soon. I think the longer Nadal is out of picture, the more chance there is of those changes happening.
Indian Wells TD is Nadal's "bestest" friend and has him stay in his own house during the tournament. Was he going to speed the tournament for Nadal?
Even players are afraid of his influence.
Remember how Rosol in his immediate post-match interview at Wimbledon was almost apologising for Nadal losing.

Not to mention the umpires. I think Federer will wind it a lot easier to talk alongside Novak in players' council than was the case with Nadal, who in the end chucked the tantrum and resigned when he realised he wasn't going to have it his own way with 2 year ranking and all the rest.

I have a feeling if Nole hadn't topped him in 2011, Nadal would've pushed 2 year ranking through.....and still be number one Boris Becker-frank or sour grapes? - Page 2 563610107

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Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
I hope those changes happen soon.
Oh no you don't! don't think it will help Nole as much.

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:51 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
I hope those changes happen soon.
Oh no you don't! don't think it will help Nole as much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRG-Nh2Swbc&feature=related

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Post by Veejay on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:11 pm

Boris claiming he served bigger then the top 8 best players in world did at the WTF with older racket technology does make you wonder all kinds of things
But the big flaw in Boris' comments is that serving bigger doesnt prove or guarantee anything
Serving bigger doesnt automatically prove that youre more skilled,nor does it guarantee that you will win or beat anyone
This is more then evident just looking at the current big servers,Roddick,Karlovic and Isner...with only Roddick having a major under his belt
Ironically it was the most rounded/skilled player who won the most,over the most athletic or lop sided/one dimensional big hitter

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Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:20 pm

Do you think Becker is saying that he coudl beat those current guys? I don't think he is saying that. He is just saying that it takes something different to win now than then. In that respect I think you and I agree on that.

Federer is certainly an exception, an oddity in today's era. SOme people out there are nearly as talented as him but they all lack that extra bit of talent that can turn a L into a W. And I am pretty sure Pete, Becker, Edberg and al...as talented as they were would not have won much in today's era cause they were also missing that extra bit of talent to win on those slower conditions/technology. Guys like Chang and Bruguerra would have actually done better like they did do better on clay.

It's as simple as that.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:30 pm

I must say it was impressive watching Federer play Djokovic in the O2.
He attacked the best athlete there is on the tour full on for 2 hours.
It was a very tight match and he is one mighty beast to beat.
He would have eaten anybody from the 80's and 90's for breakfast.

It's only Djokovic supernatural mental strength, sheer resolve and phenomenal focus that crushed Federer in the end.
I enjoyed the battle very much.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:05 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
It's only Djokovic supernatural mental strength, sheer resolve and phenomenal focus that crushed Federer in the end.

Boris Becker-frank or sour grapes? - Page 2 2033450363 I wish my mental strength coudl make me retrieve that many balls. Gosh...I thought it was all in the legs.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Oh shut up!

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Post by Veejay on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:04 pm

Tenez wrote:Do you think Becker is saying that he coudl beat those current guys? I don't think he is saying that. He is just saying that it takes something different to win now than then. In that respect I think you and I agree on that.

Federer is certainly an exception, an oddity in today's era. SOme people out there are nearly as talented as him but they all lack that extra bit of talent that can turn a L into a W. And I am pretty sure Pete, Becker, Edberg and al...as talented as they were would not have won much in today's era cause they were also missing that extra bit of talent to win on those slower conditions/technology. Guys like Chang and Bruguerra would have actually done better like they did do better on clay.

It's as simple as that.

If that is what Boris is trying to imply then I would agree with him 100%,but if I add the 2 recent comments from him together it seems to me like he is implying that players of his generation were genuinely/naturally more "skilled" because they didnt rely on racket technology as much as the players today do.The only reason that I think someone would say " I hit bigger" would be to imply.- I was better

As for Federer,I agree he is very special, in terms of talent and skill he is without a doubt the best I have seen,but we have seen many players produce freak performances that could seriously challenge Federer.How many times have we seen players give him an almighty shock ,how many players playing their absolute best has really challenged Roger's skill and shotmaking.
I personally believe that what separates Federer from the rest is his mental strength and champions mentality,while those players cant play their best consistently enough to really make a difference,and they dont have the mental strength to close big matches out.Look how long it took Murray to really believe he can do it.You call it that the extra bit of talent that turns a loss into a win,I call that talent mental strength or a champions mentality...same difference I think
Gasquet is a good comparison,very skilled,very talented shotmaker but compare what he achieved to Federer.He just isnt as competitive and doesnt have that mental strength or champions mentality

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Post by Veejay on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:07 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I must say it was impressive watching Federer play Djokovic in the O2.
He attacked the best athlete there is on the tour full on for 2 hours.
It was a very tight match and he is one mighty beast to beat.
He would have eaten anybody from the 80's and 90's for breakfast.

It's only Djokovic supernatural mental strength, sheer resolve and phenomenal focus that crushed Federer in the end.
I enjoyed the battle very much.

Federer threw everything but the kitchen sink at Djokovic in the 1st set and he still lost it...really impressive from Djokovic
He was just mentally tougher on the day and played the big points much better

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Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:38 pm

Veejay wrote:
If that is what Boris is trying to imply then I would agree with him 100%,but if I add the 2 recent comments from him together it seems to me like he is implying that players of his generation were genuinely/naturally more "skilled" because they didnt rely on racket technology as much as the players today do.The only reason that I think someone would say " I hit bigger" would be to imply.- I was better

Well in a way he coudl be right when talking about Nadal, Djoko and Murray. Those old players have played tennis and they are certianly not impressed by current top players' shots....or shot making ability. It took 10 years for Murray to have a decent, far from great, FH and as much for Nadal to learn serving and develop a BH. Becker, Edberg had flair and those top 3 players have very little of it. Becker being big headed probably only wants to compare himself with teh top players but if compared to the lower ranked players who rely a bit more on talent than the top 3, then Becker woudl be creamed...even with old or new technology. As I said it might be laughing matter to compare Llodra with Edberg but I really think that with same material Llodra woudl alsmost always win.

As for Federer,I agree he is very special, in terms of talent and skill he is without a doubt the best I have seen,but we have seen many players produce freak performances that could seriously challenge Federer.How many times have we seen players give him an almighty shock ,how many players playing their absolute best has really challenged Roger's skill and shotmaking.

NOt that often actually. He has lost very few matches since reaching his peak. Far less than anybody else in the history of teh sport...and I woudl find many "excuses" for many of those. I still have not seen anyone able to beat teh best of Federer.



I personally believe that what separates Federer from the rest is his mental strength and champions mentality,while those players cant play their best consistently enough to really make a difference,and they dont have the mental strength to close big matches out.Look how long it took Murray to really believe he can do it.You call it that the extra bit of talent that turns a loss into a win,I call that talent mental strength or a champions mentality...same difference I think
Gasquet is a good comparison,very skilled,very talented shotmaker but compare what he achieved to Federer.He just isnt as competitive and doesnt have that mental strength or champions mentality

I agree about Federer being strong mentally. But like a physical player is as strong mentally as his physique allows him to be (is fitter than the opposition), same applies to Federer's talent. He is so clearly talented that he knows he can pull the winning shot when not many coudl. That gives him piece of mind...which is so obvious when you watch him live. His srength is that he doesn't panick. He manages to remain calm. In that respect he is one of the strongest player, if not strongest I have ever seen.....causde unlike Borg, Rafa or Djoko, Federer relies on risky, well executed shots on teh highest pressure moments.

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