WORLD TOUR FINALS 2012, London

This weekend we are seeing the last tournament for the rest, on Monday the last one comes for the best.

The action kicks off in London on the 5th of November, the final played on the 12th.

Round-robin system, as usual, players divided in two groups, playing three matches against each other in order to qualify for the semi-finals.

GROUP A
Djokovic
Murray
Berdych
Tsonga

GROUP B
Federer
Ferrer
Del Potro
Tipsarevic


The line-up for World Tour Finals 2012 (courtesy of ATP website):

Novak Djokovic:
Years Qualified: 6
Best Result: Won 2008

Novak Djokovic, the 2008 champion, has qualified for a sixth successive year (9-9 record). Four years ago, the Serbian beat Nikolay Davydenko 6-1, 7-5 when the event was held in Shanghai.

Roger Federer
Years Qualified: 11
Best Result: Won 2003-04, 2006-07, 2010-11

Six-time champion Roger Federer has qualified for an 11th time after a stunning season that saw him reclaim the World No. 1 ranking. The Swiss will enter this year's event as the two-time defending champion.

Andy Murray
Years Qualified: 5
Best Result: Semi-finals 2008, 2010

Andy Murray has qualified for a fifth straight year (7-5 event record). He has twice reached the semi-finals, including a memorable match against Rafael Nadal in 2010 decided in a third set tie-break.

David Ferrer
Years Qualified: 4
Best Result: Runner-up 2007

David Ferrer has qualified for a third straight year and a fourth time overall (6-6 event record). The Spaniard reached the final on his debut in 2007, falling to Roger Federer.

Tomas Berdych
Years Qualified: 3
Best Result: Semi-finals 2011

TomasBerdych has qualified for the third straight year (3-4 event record). He reached the semi-finals in 2011, losing to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga 6-3, 7-5.

Juan Martin del Potro
Years Qualified: 3
Best Result: Runner-up 2009

Juan Martin del Potro, a winner of four ATP World Tour titles in 2012, has qualified for the first time since 2009 and the third time overall (4-4 event record). He reached the 2009 final, losing to Nikolay Davydenko 6-3, 6-4.

Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
Years Qualified: 3
Best Result: Runner-up 2011

Jo-WilfriedTsonga has qualified for the second straight year and third time overall (4-3 event record). He reached the final in 2011, losing to Roger Federer 6-3, 6-7(6), 6-3

Janko Tipsarevic
Years Qualified: 1
Best Result: Group Stage 2011

JankoTipsarevic served as an alternate in 2011, going 1-1 in round robin play. He has qualified out-right for the first time this year.

As things stand Gasquet and Almagro will be on stand-by.

The draw is out tomorrow.

The song?
I'll give the ubiquitous The Clash's London Calling a rest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_HXRl8F6Mk

Let The Waterloo Sunset fall as the final curtain on this memorable tennis 2012

Live draw ceremony taking place at the moment:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Finals/2012/Tennis/Media/Images/Photo-Galleries/2010/Barclays-Finals/Finals-Draw.aspx

Hard to see anyone but Delpo giving Federer a hard time in that group. Still nothings easy in that tournament, he potentially would face Djoko or Murray in semis, and one of them in finals.

The Murray/Djoko group stage is more stacked in the Round Robin stage, but one of the semis out of that stage might not be so bad.

truffin1 wrote:Hard to see anyone but Delpo giving Federer a hard time in that group. Still nothings easy in that tournament, he potentially would face Djoko or Murray in semis, and one of them in finals.

The Murray/Djoko group stage is more stacked in the Round Robin stage, but one of the semis out of that stage might not be so bad.

Hey P, great to see you here.

How've you been? What happened to our old friend, the other ruffin? Is he banned? I noticed he came back for a day or 2 as John Doe, then someone called him out and he disappeared again. I thought he has some kind of immunity?

I'm afraid to expect too much from Fed. This time this year is not like this time last year. I think he's played too much thus far to get himself in top form going to london now. With fed is not so much who he faces. If he's in top form, he can beat them all. Currently he's just not in the same godly form he was last year. But we'll see.

I am not sure Djoko will give 100% to this event again. He might just want to extend his dead season break. Murray on the other hand will be very motivated.

I expect Roger to be keen too but I doubt he is that fit this end of season. In fact Since IW he has only played well the last 2 matches of Wimby and Cincy....the form has been poor outside this small window.

I hope Delpo can prove a point there.

Novak, Murray, Tsonga and Berdych in one group, Federer, Tipsarevic, Delpo and Ferrer in the other. Strange.

Yes, strange though it was always going to be strange with 3 strong players. Could they have swapped Tsonga and Delpo? this would have been worse even.

No, I think she meant swapping murray with ferrer, right noley?

Whats the draw?
Anyone know who is in which group?


Thanks NIB,didnt see that

veejay just read nitb's last post on this thread

Order of play for Monday:

AFTERNOON SESSION
Murray -Berdych (DARN DARN DARN!!!!!!!! got the ticket for this session)
EVENING SESSION
Djokovic Tsonga (am going to dash and try and get one for this one as well now )

And I've done it !!!!
Monday O2 here I come

Will try to see as much as possible and post some photos afterwards

any spare tickets for this week nitb old buddy old pal ??

noleisthebest wrote:And I've done it !!!!
Monday O2 here I come

Will try to see as much as possible and post some photos afterwards

Well done!!! Enjoy!

I'll be watching from home this year.

I'll try and go on Wednesday, as well, it's got to be a Djokovic Murray match, and Nole will need all my support, right in the hornet's nest

luvsports! wrote:any spare tickets for this week nitb old buddy old pal ??

I've got the Murray Berdych one if you are interested, although it's a bit difficult to post it now, so I'll have to use it.
There are tickets still going on WTF website, go and get some while you can.

Tenez wrote:
Well done!!! Enjoy!

I'll be watching from home this year.

Thanks, Tenez.
I look forward to another great tennis day, I'll be sat right opposite the umpire in 102 section, so will give you a wave

I'll check! wear a OTF T shirt....or banner!

"OTF @ WTF" hpw about that as a slogan!

Tenez wrote:Yes, strange though it was always going to be strange with 3 strong players. Could they have swapped Tsonga and Delpo? this would have been worse even.

I think Tipsarevic Berdych/Tsonga swap would have made the groups more balanced. Maybe.

I expect Nole in the semis.
Murray is not a cert. He'll have to beat Berd on Monday.
It could be a good match.

I think Tsonga will be a whipping boy of the group.

In group B, it's hard to see beyond the in-form Delpo and Fed for the semis.

I'd love to see a Nole Fed final.

Del Potro has beaten Roger at the WTF before so this is going to be quite an interesting meeting taking recent events into consideration
It also means he could face Del Potro again in the final should either of them make it that far
Hoping Roger will take the title again but the draw is wide open,I dont think theres a clear front runner/favourite this year

If there is a favourite it has to be Murray....don't you think? Djoko would be if we knew his state of mind.

I dont know,Murray is not that great indoors,but maybe he will surprise me.If he is the favourite then he wouldnt be the outright favourite,probably more the home favourite then else ....(ok Ill stop will the digs )
Id say Del Potro is in with a a outside shot,he has been creeping up on the pack the last few months
The WTF is taylor made for Roger,so at least he has that going for him but I dont know if that will be enough this year

I will die if Murray wins,I really will..I already have the bucket ready for Sue Barker,Andrew Castle,Tim Henman and John LLoyd's worshiping at the shrine of Murray..
Be sure to hear Murray now being mentioned in the same sentence as greats like Borg,Laver and Sampras
I can already hear it..."Well now that Murray has the monkey off his back..."


You along with the rest of greater London probably be hearing me screaming this from my living room Tenez....."Yes like that guarantees everything !!!"

Veejay wrote:I dont know,Murray is not that great indoors,but maybe he will surprise me.If he is the favourite then he wouldnt be the outright favourite,probably more the home favourite then else ....(ok Ill stop will the digs )
Id say Del Potro is in with a a outside shot,he has been creeping up on the pack the last few months
The WTF is taylor made for Roger,so at least he has that going for him but I dont know if that will be enough this year

I will die if Murray wins,I really will..I already have the bucket ready for Sue Barker,Andrew Castle,Tim Henman and John LLoyd's worshiping at the shrine of Murray..
Be sure to hear Murray now being mentioned in the same sentence as greats like Borg,Laver and Sampras
I can already hear it..."Well now that Murray has the monkey off his back..."


You along with the rest of greater London probably be hearing me screaming this from my living room Tenez....."Yes like that guarantees everything !!!"

but maybe he will surprise me....again

we should add

I just think it is difficult to look past him nowadays. He is so fit, his tall body should have been thin like his brother most likely but it's so compact it's extremely impressive. He can afford to stay 3m behind the BL and bring everything back with some safe power. Guy Forget was saying that seeing close is quite impressive.

I am not a fan but certainly the favourite in view.

I refuse to take Murray as the favourite.
He is quite behind Djokovic and Federer. Provided the two are healthy.

Murray favourite here no doubt. Followed by Djokovic, then Federer for me.
Now that he's got the monkey of the slam of his back I wouldn't be surprised if he went on to achieve great things.

He's a fantastic tennis player, I still remember his stunning wins over Federer when he was just a kid, since then I knew this guy had talent.
He's been unfortunate to be playing alongside 3 world class players in Djokovic, Nadal and Federer; but now he's matching them.

I think Murray is a great example, when he was young he sacrificed so much to move to Spain, and he was so focused on his tennis.
In an interview Pato Alvarez, the teenaged Murray's Colombian coach, declared: "I was the national coach of Spain for 16 years, and Andy Murray is the best player I ever worked with."

He may not be as great as Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic; but he's an incredible players still, and I am convinced his best is yet to come.

Amritia3ee wrote:I think Murray is a great example, when he was young he sacrificed so much to move to Spain, and he was so focused on his tennis.

Yeah....why Spain?

Stuff it, it's off topic, but who cares...it's my party and I'll cry if I want to
Ever since I added this Waterloo Sunset link in the article last night , I've been playing and humming it all the time.
The Kinks' performance during the Olympics closing ceremony was sublime and inspired compared to the studio version.
What a beautiful song! here are the lyrics ( a real little poem with deeper undertone):

Dirty old river, must you keep rolling
Flowing into the night
People so busy, make me feel dizzy
Taxi light shines so bright
But I don't need no friends
As long as I gaze on Waterloo sunset
I am in paradise

Every day I look at the world from my window
Chilly, chilly is evening time
Waterloo sunset's fine

Terry meets Julie, Waterloo station
Every Friday night
But I am so lazy, don't want to wander
I stay at home at night
But I don't feel afraid
As long as I gaze on Waterloo sunset
I am in paradise

Every day I look at the world from my window
Chilly, chilly is evening time
Waterloo sunset's fine

Millions of people swarming like flies round Waterloo underground
But Terry and Julie cross over the river
Where they feel safe and sound
And the don't need no friends
As long as they gaze on Waterloo sunset
They are in paradise

Waterloo sunset's fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_HXRl8F6Mk


Now, that's what you call talent

P.S.
beats thinking about Murray and Ferrer any day....sha-la-la...

I just think it is difficult to look past him nowadays. He is so fit, his tall body should have been thin like his brother most likely but it's so compact it's extremely impressive. He can afford to stay 3m behind the BL and bring everything back with some safe power. Guy Forget was saying that seeing close is quite impressive.

I am not a fan but certainly the favourite in view.

Murray is definitely at the peak of his prime and his results this season speaks for itself.He wasnt quite a legitimate contender before but he is definitely a part of the conversation now.But just because he is a part of the conversation,in my opinion doesnt put him heads and shoulders above the rest of the serious contenders
Murray has never beaten Federer,Nadal or Djokovic at their best,while they have and can beat him at his best
His biggest wins over them have come from rather sub par performances,its not his fault and that doesnt take anything away from those victories,he won far and square, however at the same time that should be something that people are aware of because I don't think he will ever be the outright favourite until he becomes the player to beat.Theres always a first for everything so lets see what happens,but its really now or never.Theres a slight window of opportunity with Federer on the way out and Nadal probably wont surface till the clay season.If he doesnt capitalise on his momentum going into next season,I think that window may be shut come 2014

I think Murray is a great example, when he was young he sacrificed so much to move to Spain, and he was so focused on his tennis.

Murray isnt the first kid to leave home at a young age to pursue an education abroad
What exactly did he sacrifice? Everyone who wants to pursue a career as a pro athlete has to start at a very young age and ends up missing out on a childhood,they all make sacrifices and decide to pursue a dream so how is Murray any different?
He should call it the best decision his family made cause imagine if he just stayed here and tried to make it like the rest
He probably would have ended up being a mediocre underachiever who couldnt make it past the 2nd round of Wimbledon

Veejay wrote:
Murray has never beaten Federer,Nadal or Djokovic at their best,while they have and can beat him at his best
His biggest wins over them have come from rather sub par performances,its not his fault and that doesnt take anything away from those victories,he won fair and square, however at the same time that should be something that people are aware of because I don't think he will ever be the outright favourite until he becomes the player to beat.

Your "doesnt take anything away from those victories, he won fair and square" don't sound convincing in that context.

I think Murray is now at least as good as Nadal...very similar to Djko, Nadal benefitted from an advance in training and diet which helped him have a good head start but asa Djoko and Murray caught up with Nadal physically, Nadal's more limited and exhausting game would reverse the H2H trend.

It will never sound convincing or sincere coming from me,now matter how I put it
I am genuinely not trying to diminish those wins,I just feel that reason is legitimate enough to prevent me from considering him to be favourite,he isnt the player to beat so I cant say his is favourite ahead of Djokovic or Federer, but he is definitely one of the favourites

It doesnt really matter anyway,being called the favourite by popular opinion or on paper doesnt guarantee anything.Being the winner is worth far more then being considered the favourite

im still not convinced murray will be able to consistently beat nadal when nadal is at his best.

yup look at how it went for murray at the 09 aussie open

Veejay wrote:

It doesnt really matter anyway,being called the favourite by popular opinion or on paper doesnt guarantee anything.Being the winner is worth far more then being considered the favourite

He beat Federer quite convincingly last time they played in SHanghai (I agree that the Olympic final had asteriks) and he had 5 MPs v Djokovic in that same tournament. We will see what happens but he is imo certainly with the top 3 and from what I have seen recently, He is teh best out of the 3. Djoko would be better if 100% committed but he has been up and down of late.

luvsports! wrote:im still not convinced murray will be able to consistently beat nadal when nadal is at his best.

The thing is I know what will happen when Nadal comes back. People will keep saying "he is not at his best since he took his break" and they will repeat this until he wins something....but the fact is he will not win big things again and that is not down to him as much as it's in some other players racquet. The game is constantly moving up and you will see if guys like JJ, Rao and other reach their full potential we will look at our so-called current "strongest era" with a sarcastic smile on our face.

Tenez wrote:

Veejay wrote:

It doesnt really matter anyway,being called the favourite by popular opinion or on paper doesnt guarantee anything.Being the winner is worth far more then being considered the favourite

He beat Federer quite convincingly last time they played in SHanghai (I agree that the Olympic final had asteriks) and he had 5 MPs v Djokovic in that same tournament. We will see what happens but he is imo certainly with the top 3 and from what I have seen recently, He is teh best out of the 3. Djoko would be better if 100% committed but he has been up and down of late.

Noted,but he did also lose the final in Shanghai to Djokovic in typical a la Murray vintage style
I thought he would win Paris,especially after Djokovic was knocked out but even he ended up being a casualty of the qualifiers hot streak.Its loses like that and Shanghai,that make me still question him,cause when Federer,Djokovic and Nadal were dominating,they were really dominating,they would always be the ones to spoil the challengers dream run,not the other way around,they would never lose a match having had 5 match points
I do think Murray plays Federer and Djokovic a lot better,but if you say he is best out of the 3,it wouldn't be by a very big margin,I dont think he is the clear favourite on paper,its more a case of whoever is the better player on the day

I don;t think Murray has the mind and tennis of a great champion lining up tournaments like others have done...but he is certainly physically the fittest player by far now and that give a pretty big edge.

Tenez... I remember you've predicted Nadals downfall every year, no?

You will probably be right this time, Rafa has been out of the game for a long time with injury, but lets be honest eventually you would be right. So that's hardly fantastic predictions is it.

Amritia3ee wrote:Tenez... I remember you've predicted Nadals downfall every year, no?

You will probably be right this time, Rafa has been out of the game for a long time with injury, but lets be honest eventually you would be right. So that's hardly fantastic predictions is it.

I had just underestimated the progress of "science" Amri...nothing else. Without PRP being legalised under teh weirdest circumstances in 2009, Nadal woudl have had his career cut short 3 years ago.

You sound like Arsene Wenger with you fantastical excuses

Amritia3ee wrote:You sound like Arsene Wenger with you fantastical excuses

Excuse? I am not sure why I'd need excuses. It's teh rafalitos who usually have tons of them....as their player can only lose when not 100%.

Tenez wrote:
Excuse? I am not sure why I'd need excuses.

Because basically every year you've predicted Nadal to fall away, and you;ve been wrong every single time. Every single time.
Of course in 2013 you'll probably be right, with Nadal out for so long etc., and then you'll pretend as if you've made a great prediction. But in reality you're just going to keep on saying that until Nadal does actually fall away, so eventually you'll be 'right' anyway.

Tenez wrote:
It's teh rafalitos who usually have tons of them....as their player can only lose when not 100%.

Right Tenez, I am a Nadal fan, you may/ may not know that. Do I count as a 'Rafalito' whatever that is.
This is an article I wrote after IW this year:
http://www.606v2.com/t26117-congratulations-to-federer Any thoughts?
I also remember on v2, we were discussing Nadal's AO 2010 match. I was arguing against Hawkeye, saying that Murray deserved full credit for that match, and would have won irrelevant of Nadal's injury, as his level was higher.


Anyway Tenez when it comes to real 'excuses', we all remember your reaction to Miami 2004
You said you were convinced he had a flu, despite no evidence to say this was the case. Federer hadn't mentioned a flu in his press interview or anything... so it's seems very fabricated (ie excuse making).
And remember the next HC meeting in Miami 2005 Nadal also took the first 2 sets, just like he did in Miami 2004. In the HC meeting after that, he beat Federer in Dubai 2006. Did Federer also have flu for Dubai 2006?

Nadal ... death of tennis, grunting clay-courter , who will be remembered for his painful hypersensitive protective fans, awful gamesmanship, talentless, gutless moonballing, unsightly mannerisms and ugly style of play.
Ah yes.....and his knees!

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal ... death of tennis, grunting clay-courter , who will be remembered for his painful hypersensitive protective fans, awful gamesmanship, talentless, gutless moonballing, unsightly mannerisms and ugly style of play.
Ah yes.....and his knees!

Amritia3ee wrote:
Anyway Tenez when it comes to real 'excuses', we all remember your reaction to Miami 2004
You said you were convinced he had a flu, despite no evidence to say this was the case. Federer hadn't mentioned a flu in his press interview or anything... so it's seems very fabricated (ie excuse making).
And remember the next HC meeting in Miami 2005 Nadal also took the first 2 sets, just like he did in Miami 2004. In the HC meeting after that, he beat Federer in Dubai 2006. Did Federer also have flu for Dubai 2006?

YOu may want to argue this with your friend LF cause she is the one who tipped me on this and after checking the draw, results and a few more links she is right on this occasion and you know that LF would not want to make up excuses right?

Tenez wrote:. Djoko would be better if 100% committed but he has been up and down of late.

Just read an interview he gave to B92 and he says he is not feeling his freshest either physically or mentally due to the private problems he's had recently.
With this fan around, though, all those weary thoughts will disappear

Tenez wrote:

Amritia3ee wrote:
Anyway Tenez when it comes to real 'excuses', we all remember your reaction to Miami 2004
You said you were convinced he had a flu, despite no evidence to say this was the case. Federer hadn't mentioned a flu in his press interview or anything... so it's seems very fabricated (ie excuse making).
And remember the next HC meeting in Miami 2005 Nadal also took the first 2 sets, just like he did in Miami 2004. In the HC meeting after that, he beat Federer in Dubai 2006. Did Federer also have flu for Dubai 2006?

YOu may want to argue this with your friend LF cause she is the one who tipped me on this and after checking the draw, results and a few more links she is right on this occasion and you know that LF would not want to make up excuses right?

Where?
Where did Federer say in his press interview that he has flu??

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:. Djoko would be better if 100% committed but he has been up and down of late.

Just read an interview he gave to B92 and he says he is not feeling his freshest either physically or mentally due to the private problems he's had recently.
With this fan around, though, all those weary thoughts will disappear

Not sure what this private thing is about but last year he clearly did not want to fight for the WTF either and I don;t think he had private problems then.

Oh when will you stop going on abut the last year...He just came back from back muscle tear injury. He hadn't touched a racquet for 6 weeks between his loss to Delpo in DC and Basel, and then he just played in Bercy a bit and London. He was far from ready.
The two years are different, and there is no pattern esp the one you are trying to insinuate.
Novak has always had strong end of the season prior to last year.

This year has not been bad at all he won China and Beijing and Shanghai, a lot better than what some other players....
If anything, he may lack motivation now that he has secured his number one ranking.
I don't think he is looking for excuses in advance, just taking pressure off probably, just a guess.
Personally, I think he will be fine. He loves his winning too much