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US Open - 2019

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Post by naxroy Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:52 am

So the court was super slow, yet they combined played 41% of all points at the net

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:24 am

Well Med certainly didn't go down without a fight. Always going to be a struggle for him given he doesn't generate much power with slow ball. 

The race for the most Slams now getting interesting. Feel now that Nadal will over-take Federer.

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Post by Jahu Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:37 am

I think they both gonna get stuck on 20 and leave the tennis GOAT issue forever not clear.

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:38 am

That would be a dickish thing to do. 

I would make Djokovic GOAT if that happened.

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Post by Jahu Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:00 am

Djoko on 19, crying forever that he needed just 1 more to be into the club.

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Post by Slippy Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:08 am

summerblues wrote:But I have to say, they both are playing rather boring tennis today.  I know I know, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder etc, so if someone finds midcourt-to-midcourt exchanges sexy, be my guest.  It is not my cup of tea though.
Just seen this post. Surely a joke right? The start was a bit nervous but from then on the match had everything. Some of the volleying was exceptional and stunning rallies. All court tennis at its very best. Combine that with the drama of the comeback, a few nervy misses and things like Nadal having his first serve taken away at crucial times and it’s right up there as one of the best major finals of all time, if not the best. Just a shame Medvedev couldn’t compete the win but sometimes you just have to appreciate the brilliance of a match, regardless of result.

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Post by Slippy Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:16 am

Amazingly that’s now 13 straight slams won by players in their 30s. The youngest man to have won a slam (Cilic) is now himself 30 and turns 31 this month - so no player under 31 will have won a slam. Remarkable.

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:26 am

Slippy wrote:
summerblues wrote:But I have to say, they both are playing rather boring tennis today.  I know I know, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder etc, so if someone finds midcourt-to-midcourt exchanges sexy, be my guest.  It is not my cup of tea though.
Just seen this post. Surely a joke right? The start was a bit nervous but from then on the match had everything. Some of the volleying was exceptional and stunning rallies. All court tennis at its very best. Combine that with the drama of the comeback, a few nervy misses and things like Nadal having his first serve taken away at crucial times and it’s right up there as one of the best major finals of all time, if not the best. Just a shame Medvedev couldn’t compete the win but sometimes you just have to appreciate the brilliance of a match, regardless of result.

Speaking of jokes....

Don't get so carried away. The Wimbledon Final of 1980 for me will always take some beating. That's the best GS Final in history. The 4th set was drama unrivalled. 

The quality of shots much more superior.

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Post by Slippy Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:34 am

Sure, that would be up there for consideration as well. Maybe:

Medvedev v Nadal (US 19)
Djokovic v Federer (Wim 19)
Nadal v Federer (Aus 09)
Agassi v Goran (Wim 92)
McEnroe v Borg (Wim 80)

As a top 5?

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:53 am

If I was going a Top 5

McEnroe vs Borg Wim 80
Edberg vs Becker Wim 90
Nadal vs Federer AO 09
Agassi vs Goran Wim 92
Stan vs Novak FO 15

So many others that could go in there. Agassi vs Federer USO 05 just on the basis of the first 2 sets which were pulsating. The atmosphere was electric. 

This final hasn't wowed me to be honest. More so because I felt Nadal was below his max level for the match. Made many errors on the FH and wasn't ripping his BH that much. With respect to Medvedev, I never thought at any time during the match he could go on and win it.

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Post by barrystar Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:26 am

Thank heavens I neither watched nor followed the match - the suspense of hoping that Medvedev was going to win and halt Nadal's rush to the slam tally record would have killed me.

Partisan and fed up with the USTA's changes to the conditions of their slam though I am, you've got to say well done to Nadal for winning another one and edging closer to that record.  

If I were Fed the fact that I'd failed to convert two service points for Wimbledon and #21 would keep me awake at night.

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:43 am

barrystar wrote:Thank heavens I neither watched nor followed the match - the suspense of hoping that Medvedev was going to win and halt Nadal's rush to the slam tally record would have killed me.

Partisan and fed up with the USTA's changes to the conditions of their slam though I am, you've got to say well done to Nadal for winning another one and edging closer to that record.  

If I were Fed the fact that I'd failed to convert two service points for Wimbledon and #21 would keep me awake at night.

If he did that, may as well hang up the racquet. Just needs to eradicate that ever happening again should he find himself in a match winning position. 

The US Open does have problems though. The scheduling was a big mess and made the more worse by the fact they have a court with a roof! It's been a forgettable US Open for the wrong reasons. 

The US crowd are much worse than last year. That trend worries me more if anything else.

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Post by Slippy Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 am

legendkillar wrote:If I was going a Top 5

McEnroe vs Borg Wim 80
Edberg vs Becker Wim 90
Nadal vs Federer AO 09
Agassi vs Goran Wim 92
Stan vs Novak FO 15

So many others that could go in there. Agassi vs Federer USO 05 just on the basis of the first 2 sets which were pulsating. The atmosphere was electric. 

This final hasn't wowed me to be honest. More so because I felt Nadal was below his max level for the match. Made many errors on the FH and wasn't ripping his BH that much. With respect to Medvedev, I never thought at any time during the match he could go on and win it.
I suspect the feeling that Medvedev was never going to win is because you are a Fed supporter and therefore wanted him to win. As someone who was neutral (albeit would have preferred a Medvedev victory) I thought he was favourite going into the fifth. He looked physically strong and nerveless. All the momentum was with him and serving first was a big advantage. Felt like it could be a real changing of the guard moment but sadly not to be. Nadal did brilliantly to wrest back control.

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Post by Slippy Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:15 am

The USTA have to be commended for the condition of the courts by the way. Felt like they were just right. Good shots were rewarded but players still had to construct points. The slice was really effective at times in the final and both players recognised that getting to the net was a viable tactic. I didn’t watch too many matches but most of the ones I did were excellent. I’d probably give the tournament 8/10. One of the better US Opens for a while.

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:32 am

Slippy wrote:
legendkillar wrote:If I was going a Top 5

McEnroe vs Borg Wim 80
Edberg vs Becker Wim 90
Nadal vs Federer AO 09
Agassi vs Goran Wim 92
Stan vs Novak FO 15

So many others that could go in there. Agassi vs Federer USO 05 just on the basis of the first 2 sets which were pulsating. The atmosphere was electric. 

This final hasn't wowed me to be honest. More so because I felt Nadal was below his max level for the match. Made many errors on the FH and wasn't ripping his BH that much. With respect to Medvedev, I never thought at any time during the match he could go on and win it.
I suspect the feeling that Medvedev was never going to win is because you are a Fed supporter and therefore wanted him to win. As someone who was neutral (albeit would have preferred a Medvedev victory) I thought he was favourite going into the fifth. He looked physically strong and nerveless. All the momentum was with him and serving first was a big advantage. Felt like it could be a real changing of the guard moment but sadly not to be. Nadal did brilliantly to wrest back control.

Wow. Not sure where you got that from, but crikey way off the mark. 

Being a neutral, no I wouldn't have made Med favourite going into the fifth given how he buckled in the first set. As I stated to Decima the other day, Nadal would have to have a massive off day for Med to win. The result has very much supported that view. 

As for a changing of the guard, even if Med won no way would that have felt a changing of the guard. Look at the WTA and learn from that. Look how many break out winners there have been and look at how short their success has been. None of them really dominating. Osaka and Halep could dominate if they find consistency, but that is the key. Kerber and Muguruza won multiple Slams and then their form fell off a cliff! 

It's one thing for the Men's side to find a new Slam winner and another to find multiple ones and a level of consistency amongst the other players. For every Federer, Nadal, Djokovic you will need Murray, Wawrinka, Cillic, Roddick, Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga's of this world to at least make competition serious enough. The latter on that list might not be remembered for winning loads of titles, but they were at least consistent top 10er's and competitive and could reach latter stages of most tournaments. Granted you have Thiem, Zverev and now Medvedev, but take Thiem and Zverev, they have the odd burst, but Thiem is gash off Clay and Zverev is crap at the Slams. 

The changing of the guard is going to be slow and painful.

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Post by naxroy Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:29 pm

I think 2020 is the end of the road for "the Big 3"

Maybe, because he is younger and he is right now the most allrounded of the 3, Djokovic could still win a few slams past 2020, but dont think Rafa will be able to win anything in 2021 at 35. Impossible also for Federer being 40 

What Roger has done since 2017 is out of this world... but I dont think Rafa can do it.

Anyway he has already had a much longer career than most great champions. And for sure, much longer than expected by the wise men in tennis forums

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Post by legendkillar Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:38 pm

naxroy wrote:I think 2020 is the end of the road for "the Big 3"

Maybe, because he is younger and he is right now the most allrounded of the 3, Djokovic could still win a few slams past 2020, but dont think Rafa will be able to win anything in 2021 at 35. Impossible also for Federer being 40 

What Roger has done since 2017 is out of this world... but I dont think Rafa can do it.

Anyway he has already had a much longer career than most great champions. And for sure, much longer than expected by the wise men in tennis forums

Not sexist much!

The assumption is Federer is having one more crack at Olympic Gold and then following that will be some what of swansong. Depends how his season goes really. Unless his performance levels dip dramatically and the performance levels of the rest increase, he still might yet carry on. 

It's literally waiting until they hang up their racquets, rather than natural decline and exit left of the stage. Unless of the course the rest of the field really up their game in the next 12 months.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 am

Slippy, I don't agree that Nadal vs Medvedev is in the top 5 Grand Slam finals.

Firstly the quality of the first 2.75 sets wasn't high enough. It was Medvedev playing meek tennis, and Nadal just pummelling him. Scoreline made it look closer than it was for sets 1 and 2.

Then Nadal in control of set 3, had a brainfreeze, and let Medvedev back into it. I acknowledge that after this the level was very high. Med started putting pace on the ball in defence and attack, and Nadal was really stretched. Rallies where Medvedev was painting the lines, and Nadal had to use slices and net play as a change up to cope.
However unless all 5 sets in a Grand Slam final are world class, I can't count that as one of the greatest finals.

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Post by N2D2L Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:35 am

Nadal should be lauded for his mental strength in his final, and I think I say that objectively as well as being a biased fan.

It takes mental fortitude to totally fuck up in the way he did while closing out the match, and then still have the positivity to keep fighting when his back was against the wall in set 5.

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Post by summerblues Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:20 am

Slippy wrote:
summerblues wrote:But I have to say, they both are playing rather boring tennis today.  I know I know, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder etc, so if someone finds midcourt-to-midcourt exchanges sexy, be my guest.  It is not my cup of tea though.
Just seen this post. Surely a joke right? The start was a bit nervous but from then on the match had everything. Some of the volleying was exceptional and stunning rallies. All court tennis at its very best. Combine that with the drama of the comeback, a few nervy misses and things like Nadal having his first serve taken away at crucial times and it’s right up there as one of the best major finals of all time, if not the best. Just a shame Medvedev couldn’t compete the win but sometimes you just have to appreciate the brilliance of a match, regardless of result.
Slightly unfair from you.  I posted my post right after the third set - so I was in no position to give credit for "drama of the comeback" etc. that would unfold later.

In terms of quality, I certainly do not rate it anywhere as high as you do.  And specially not the first three sets that my post was referring to.  Medvedev was making weak attempts to hit through Rafa that Rafa was able to contain with little fuss and without playing anything extra special himself.  If the match did not end in three easy sets, it was because Rafa was not playing quite at his best, and because he looked a little extra tight in important moments.

I suggest you sleep on this a couple of nights, and if you still think this was one of the best major finals of all time ("if not the best" smiley) after that, then it will be more useful to talk.

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Post by legendkillar Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:21 pm

summerblues wrote:
Slippy wrote:
summerblues wrote:But I have to say, they both are playing rather boring tennis today.  I know I know, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder etc, so if someone finds midcourt-to-midcourt exchanges sexy, be my guest.  It is not my cup of tea though.
Just seen this post. Surely a joke right? The start was a bit nervous but from then on the match had everything. Some of the volleying was exceptional and stunning rallies. All court tennis at its very best. Combine that with the drama of the comeback, a few nervy misses and things like Nadal having his first serve taken away at crucial times and it’s right up there as one of the best major finals of all time, if not the best. Just a shame Medvedev couldn’t compete the win but sometimes you just have to appreciate the brilliance of a match, regardless of result.
Slightly unfair from you.  I posted my post right after the third set - so I was in no position to give credit for "drama of the comeback" etc. that would unfold later.

In terms of quality, I certainly do not rate it anywhere as high as you do.  And specially not the first three sets that my post was referring to.  Medvedev was making weak attempts to hit through Rafa that Rafa was able to contain with little fuss and without playing anything extra special himself.  If the match did not end in three easy sets, it was because Rafa was not playing quite at his best, and because he looked a little extra tight in important moments.

I suggest you sleep on this a couple of nights, and if you still think this was one of the best major finals of all time ("if not the best" smiley) after that, then it will be more useful to talk.

Sounds like you have a notepad and couch at the ready Winking

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