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Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

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Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:16 pm

Just read a sickening article which argues why doping should be allowed in sport.

The "opinion" comes from Ellis Cashmore who is a professor of culture, media and sport at Staffordshire University in the UK, and the author of Making Sense of Sports:

"The Lance Armstrong case forces us to consider a philosophical problem that has tormented sport since 1988 when Ben Johnson was disqualified at the Olympics after testing positive for drugs.

Not 'How we can improve detection and make punishment serve as both deterrent and restitution,' but 'Should we allow athletes to use drugs?' My answer is yes.

Were we to treat athletes as mature adults capable of making informed decisions based on scientific information, we could permit the use of performance enhancing substances, monitor the results and make the whole process transparent.


Instead we continue to demonize those found guilty of doping violations, willing ourselves into ignorance.Athletes take unknown substances, procured from unknown sources and with uncertain results. Permitting the use of doping would rescue sport from this clandestine state, creating an environment that would be not only safer, but more congruent with the reality of professional sport in the 21st century.

Twenty-four years after the Johnson scandal, performance-enhancing drugs are as abundant as everand, as the Armstrong experience reminds us, the testers remain embarrassingly behind the curve. Despite the major advances since 1988, several athletes have evaded detection not just for the odd competition,but for entire careers.

Before Armstrong, American sprinter Marion Joneswas convicted and imprisoned, though, like Armstrong, she never returned a positive drug test (she was found guilty of impeding a Federal investigation). Nor did baseball's Barry Bonds, who was convicted on one count of misleading a grand jury investigating drug use by athletes in 2011.
No sensible observer of sport today denies the prevalence of drugs in practically every major sport, yet none would argue they can ever be eliminated completely. Money alone guarantees that much. The days of the gentleman-amateur have long gone: Athletes today are competing for high stakes, not just millions, but dozens of millions (Armstrong is worth about $70 million, according to Forbes).

In a culture that encourages the constant search for the limits of human achievement, we, the fans, the consumers of popular sports entertainment, revel in record-breaking, gravity-defying, barely believable feats on the field of play. Promoters, leagues, sponsors, advertisers and a miscellany of other interested parties dangle incentives.

Armstrong got rich thanks to the beneficence of people who didn't just back him but lauded,even lionized him as the greatest cyclist ever, and perhaps pound-for-pound one of the world's finest sportsmen. Small wonder he wasmotivated to gamble: a quick cost-benefit calculation would have told him the chances of detection were slight compared with the bounties available.

The objections are predictable:

This is cheating.

In a technical sense, perhaps; but that could be fixed by changing the rules. In a moral sense, it is unfair on those competitors who do not wish to use drugs. The evidence of the Armstrong investigation suggests that many other cyclists were habitual dopers, anyway. We can't say the same for other sports, though we can remind competitors that among the array of performance enhancing aids which are available to them, such asacupuncture, hypnotism, hypoxic tents (that simulate high altitude) and the countless other perfectly legal performance enhancements are some that are probably more dangerous than drugs.

Taking drugs is wrong.

Maybe, but how many of us get through a day without taking a pharmaceutical product, such as statins, antidepressants, painkillers
and so on? By an accident of language we use the same term for these products and performance enhancing materials as we do for illicit drugs like crack cocaine and heroin. This misleads us into imagining related objections.

There are too many dangers.

Of course there are -- as the situation is now. By inviting athletes todeclare with impunity what they are using, we encourage and open
discourse and promote research so we'd be in a position to advise on therelative values and risks of different substances. This openness isn't possible while we continue to force drug-taking underground. Opening up sport in the way I'm advocating would render it a safer, more secure environment.

Sports stars are role models.

Possibly. But they are not paragons of virtue, and even if they were, young people who follow them and organize their own naive ambitions around theirs will eventually run into the rock hard reality that drugs are to sport what Twitter is to celebrities -- not exactly essential, but a valuable resource when used strategically.

Fans would turn off sport.

Ask yourself this: Did you feel a thrill when you saw the imperious Armstrong cross the line at the 2002 Tour de France seven minutes ahead of his nearest rival? Or when you watched Marion Jones surge to victory at the Olympic 100m final in 2000? At the time, we didn't realize they or, for that matter, any of their rivals had doped. And it didn't affect our enjoyment of their performances any more than if we'd known they were wearing aerodynamically designed clothing.

The argument in favour of permitting drugs in sport is not popular at a time when the world is busy annihilating Lance Armstrong. But it is rational, sound and in harmony with sport, not as it was in the days of "Chariots of Fire," but as it is in the twenty first century: Unrelenting, mercilessly competitive and unsparingly achievement-oriented."



What do you think?


Last edited by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:29 pm

No most obviously not.
Look if its allowed, the people who win will just be the ones who are more prepared to risk themselves with more drugs (which can have very negative side effects), and the ones who have more money to obtain better and better steroids.
Allowing it will lead to a massive decline in control- and could lead to a huge safety risk for competitors.
I also feel they nullify the point of the sport- your success should stem from hard work, not steroids.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:34 pm

I find the last paragraph and comparison to Chariots of Fire an ultimate insult.
Quite a disturbing way of thinking, but not surprising.

It's essential that this LA case momentum gets used to crack down on other dopers across sport as much as possible now.
Because if it doesn't, we may as well say goodbye to it for good.

Worst case scenario, we'll always have the option of enjoying playing it ourselves, happy and dope-free.
Still, can't help being sad for the state it's in now.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by sphairistike on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:17 pm

Nitb, thanks for posting this. It is quite interesting but not a new subject, especially in philosophy. Actually in university, even though my majors were all essentially in math, I had a philosophy course, and a series of them were on whether or not doping should be allowed in sport. At the time we even took the example of formula one (I know there is no doping needed in there) in the sense that drivers can have more or less performing cars and that it could decide much more of the results than the skills of the drivers etc. I cannot recall everything we talked about but only one thing is clear, it is not an obvious yes or no answer. Actually purists may say that nothing prevents it from being allowed as if they can all do it, it would not be cheating and the situation would be more equal as a lot of professional athletes do it anyways but without getting caught. And Amrit half of what you say is not right I am afraid, money is already helping the richer ones to get the best training conditions anyways or use hypoxic tents etc., so it is not like it will help them necessarily more with PED, etc. Actually performance drugs would be cheaper if it is all legal. Now I agree with the first half of your statement though about favoring the "braves" more prepared to take the risk but we all know these ones already exist even when it is forbidden, some athletes even try to cheat on the field, etc. It goes back to the moral point in this article about it being unfair for the ones who do not want to use them but I am sure the more talented ones would not need to use as much anyways, even though they will have to do it if they want to compete at the highest level. If it is allowed, science can help optimize the dosage, etc. for best performance for the longest time career wise. Anyways, some sports need it more (like cycling) some sports can try their best to make themselves rely more on pure technical skills than endurance and strength, for instance in the case of tennis, they'll have to speed the conditions enough so that more skilled competitors can hit winners more easily, without needing to hit with huge strength, instead of having marathon slug fests... IMHO

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Worst case scenario, we'll always have the option of enjoying playing it ourselves, happy and dope-free.
Still, can't help being sad for the state it's in now.

This is the real purpose of professional sport! Getting younger and older people out and do something. After all the rest is much less relevant.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:22 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Worst case scenario, we'll always have the option of enjoying playing it ourselves, happy and dope-free.
Still, can't help being sad for the state it's in now.

This is the real purpose of professional sport! Getting younger and older people out and do something. After all the rest is much less relevant.

You're right, I forgot how inspirational athletes have been for me all my life. Darn!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:30 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Worst case scenario, we'll always have the option of enjoying playing it ourselves, happy and dope-free.
Still, can't help being sad for the state it's in now.

This is the real purpose of professional sport! Getting younger and older people out and do something. After all the rest is much less relevant.

You're right, I forgot how inspirational athletes have been for me all my life. Darn!
Nadal Applause

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:31 pm

Sphair, about your point on how being richer helps atm, I do agree; but have you heard of Djokovic's story?

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:53 pm

sphairistike wrote: Anyways, some sports need it more (like cycling) some sports can try their best to make themselves rely more on pure technical skills than endurance and strength, for instance in the case of tennis, they'll have to speed the conditions enough so that more skilled competitors can hit winners more easily, without needing to hit with huge strength, instead of having marathon slug fests... IMHO

the more tennis reverts to its original pre-professional ways & playing conditions, the better. I don't know if and how that is possible, but slow conditions encourage doping.
Not only does it ruin the aesthetical side of tennis, but also players' careers and health. Nobody wins.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:55 pm

Simply no. It encourages cheating for less talented athletes to bridge the gap with doping instead of persevering with hard work.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:31 pm

The idea that allowing doping would allow an even playing field cannot be more wrong. Doping science actually favours one athlete over the other based essentially on the respective labs supporting those athletes. It cannot be further away from what got us interested in sport in the first place.

For me the answer is very simple. Athletes should be running on the same stuff as we, in our daily life, do.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by sphairistike on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:17 pm

Tenez wrote:The idea that allowing doping would allow an even playing field cannot be more wrong. Doping science actually favours one athlete over the other based essentially on the respective labs supporting those athletes. It cannot be further away from what got us interested in sport in the first place.

For me the answer is very simple. Athletes should be running on the same stuff as we, in our daily life, do.

I'm sorry Tenez but you cannot be more wrong this time IMHO. Which is the one athlete that will be favored? It's an even field in the first place, it's not like what you are describing here is not happening already. Only, because it is hidden, only a few can do it and are favored in an unfair fashion. If they all had the access, of course someone could benefit more of it - analogy with Schumi who benefited more with Ferrari but why was Schumi chosen in the first place will answer your doubts - but it would be more a function on raw talent at the start or which athlete will actually get the best results with the help, etc. Also, why would you want Athletes to run on the same stuff as you? You really hope to be able to compare yourself to them that way? In the sense that you can say to yourself yeah, I'd love to be able to do that? Do you really think that this is the main driver of the entertainment part of sport? Sport is a business and athletes are just pawns on the chess board, some are knights, some rooks, etc. But at the end of the day, whatever makes the entertainment better is what is going to prevail. Maybe they'll start replacing athletes by robots like in the movie Real Steel where boxers are robots that are programmed by humans. I know it is just a movie, but from that viewpoint it is totally realistic. Anyways, do you really think tennis is not already a lot like that? Also, for all we know, matches have a predetermined winner and it is all a show already...

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by sphairistike on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:18 pm

PS: Nitb, can you please edit the title and add the d at "should"? Thanks.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:22 pm

Really good thread. One moment answer would be "NO", but let me think more on it smiley

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:22 pm

sphairistike wrote:PS: Nitb, can you please edit the title and add the d at "should"? Thanks.
done!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:35 pm

Commentators talking about who is the #1 atm on current form. One said

1. Murray
2. Djokovic
Federer

Big Grin


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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:37 pm

For some jumping on the bandwagon is very easy.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:38 pm

Opps.. wrong thread Run

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:38 pm

sphairistike wrote:
Tenez wrote:The idea that allowing doping would allow an even playing field cannot be more wrong. Doping science actually favours one athlete over the other based essentially on the respective labs supporting those athletes. It cannot be further away from what got us interested in sport in the first place.

For me the answer is very simple. Athletes should be running on the same stuff as we, in our daily life, do.

I'm sorry Tenez but you cannot be more wrong this time IMHO. Which is the one athlete that will be favored? It's an even field in the first place, it's not like what you are describing here is not happening already. Only, because it is hidden, only a few can do it and are favored in an unfair fashion. If they all had the access, of course someone could benefit more of it - analogy with Schumi who benefited more with Ferrari but why was Schumi chosen in the first place will answer your doubts - but it would be more a function on raw talent at the start or which athlete will actually get the best results with the help, etc. Also, why would you want Athletes to run on the same stuff as you? You really hope to be able to compare yourself to them that way? In the sense that you can say to yourself yeah, I'd love to be able to do that? Do you really think that this is the main driver of the entertainment part of sport? Sport is a business and athletes are just pawns on the chess board, some are knights, some rooks, etc. But at the end of the day, whatever makes the entertainment better is what is going to prevail. Maybe they'll start replacing athletes by robots like in the movie Real Steel where boxers are robots that are programmed by humans. I know it is just a movie, but from that viewpoint it is totally realistic. Anyways, do you really think tennis is not already a lot like that? Also, for all we know, matches have a predetermined winner and it is all a show already...

As you saw in cycling doping can create a champion from scratch. It's not like LA woudl have won 7 TDF if no-one, including him, had doped. I am not sure how you can say it would be an even playing field. I think it was Hamilton who was saying just last week how doping favours some at the expense of others, even if they were all doping. It becomes a race to information and science and like your example about F1, not all have the same car and rarely the best pilot wins.

Also, why would you want Athletes to run on the same stuff as you? You really hope to be able to compare yourself to them that way? In the sense that you can say to yourself yeah, I'd love to be able to do that?

Of course. I want to see the human physical limits and I want, or now my children, be able to relate to it. If I run in 12s I want to know that best runner ever is at 10s/100m. Do I care if some drugs, special shoes and a ventilated t shirt can make you run the 100m in 8s? We have cars designed for those kind of achievements. I don;t want to watch a Labs race. I want to watch a human race and that is what is entertaining and this is what people have been untertained by since the Greeks games. It's teh athletes that make the show...much more than their performance as a performance is a relative thing.

Do you really think that this is the main driver of the entertainment part of sport? Sport is a business and athletes are just pawns on the chess board, some are knights, some rooks, etc. But at the end of the day, whatever makes the entertainment better is what is going to prevail.

That has not always been the case. Sport was very entertaining before it became a professional business and that is very precisely why it became a professional business. For us watching Laver v Rosewall in 1968 when they were making money was not more exciting than in 1962 when they weren;t making any (well officially).

I am sorry but you are also wrong on that occasion. Winking

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:46 pm

Tenez spot on here.

Never thought I would ever say that Yikes

Whistle

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:57 pm

amri,

being on OTF has done you a lot of good lately

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Don't worry NITB, this should be the only time that occurs this millennium Whistle

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:09 pm

The idea doping should be allowed is ludicrous, IMO.

That's clear.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:10 pm

Amritia3ee wrote:The idea doping should be allowed is ludicrous, IMO.

That's clear.

Is that the message from Nadal's video

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Amritia3ee wrote:The idea doping should be allowed is ludicrous, IMO.

That's clear.

Is that the message from Nadal's video
Basically, but not exactly.

In the video he was talking about how there should be zero tolerance to doping, and we should play a clean sport.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:21 pm

Amritia3ee wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Amritia3ee wrote:The idea doping should be allowed is ludicrous, IMO.

That's clear.

Is that the message from Nadal's video
Basically, but not exactly.

In the video he was talking about how there should be zero tolerance to doping, and we should play a clean sport.

Not we, him!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:55 pm

Tenez,
You should repost that comment you made about why doping shouldnt be legalised
That was a brilliant summery of why the drugs shouldnt be legalised

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Thanks Vee! You mean the one above on this thread or another one somewhere else?

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Tenez wrote:Thanks Vee! You mean the one above on this thread or another one somewhere else?

The one you said you got off THASP

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:44 pm

I can't remember now. Did I post it recently ...on the doping thread maybe?

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Tenez wrote:I can't remember now. Did I post it recently ...on the doping thread maybe?


Yeah.I think i may be on the LA thread,it was related to that if I remember correctly

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Yes I think it was Hamilton's interview. I 'll look at it.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by paulcz on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:26 pm

If doping should be allowed then the sport would start being a sort of entertainment industry as wrestling or bodybuilding. Let us imagine, that players could use injections and have freezing blood boxes besides their chairs. There would appear new tennis rules as how much blood they can take with them on the court and how many times they can use infusions I would rather watch an orchestra playing Vivaldi

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:39 pm

Yep...like Formula 1. Only 2 pits stops (blood bags) allowed. You'd have a team of 4 doctors standing by the chair, like we have 4 guys carrying a wheel each in F1. Each with the responsibility of one limb (arm or leg) with a big red syrenge. They'd change the entire blood every 10 games in 1'30m just in time during the change of end.

Fabulous!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Larry Ellison on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:41 pm

Tenez, you've change my mind over this.

That sounds brilliant!!!!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:56 pm

Is this what you meant Vee?

DC: I’d like to take that on, because you’re getting into the question of a level playing field — that if everyone is doping, then it’s a level playing field. I think this book explodes that myth. And it is a myth. When everyone can dope, it becomes a contest of who has the best information, who has the best access, who has the best doctor, and who has the most money. That’s what this contest is — it’s a chess game of information, connections and money. And whoever wins that chess game has the better chance of winning the Tour. What happens when you have a situation when there aren’t strong regulations, and people can dope, it’s the opposite of a level field, it’s a hugely distorted playing field, and it’s tilted toward people with access, with information and with money. And that’s the game you want to avoid playing. The level playing field of doping is a total myth.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by paulcz on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:06 pm

Tenez wrote:Yep...like Formula 1. Only 2 pits stops (blood bags) allowed. You'd have a team of 4 doctors standing by the chair, like we have 4 guys carrying a wheel each in F1. Each with the responsibility of one limb (arm or leg) with a big red syrenge. They'd change the entire blood every 10 games in 1'30m just in time during the change of end.

Fabulous!



Then there would be doctors´ races on the court, surely better than F1. F1 has vehicles, but tennis would have real live bodies, which is more interisting. How to speed up a blood infusion or inject a blood plasma during the match, that would be the most important things on the court. SHBH or DHBH does not matter.

Another phase then would be that players should be allowed to play with oxygen masks and with wi-fi connections to cardio analyzer and via ears plugs they could receive info about their heart pulsing and state of energy.

During the game there would be announced by a doctor something as: you have enough energy for 5 hits, oxygen is running out!

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:16 pm

I don't think it will ever come to doping being legalised at least in a free for all kind of style, but if tennis players are doping then there already is a wealth gap that can create a disbalance of who can afford what.

While watching a Davy match yesterday, a commentator mentioned that Davy decided to "get"/add a doctor to his brother/Irina team, someone to "look after" his body while traveling on tour.
Now, that's all nice, but not everyone can afford it, in fact I know of only Djokovic and Murray that have traveling physios (I'm assuming Federer and Nadal have them as well but don't know).
That's one end of the spectrum and at the other you have guys like Strakhovski who can get ahead after paying all his bills.

So it's a bit of a mumbo-jumbo created by this star-engineered ATP tour system.
Players have adjusted, and are obviously all adjusting: get fitter, get a doctor, team, play safe percentage tennis, and bob's your uncle!

I can see the logic of players' thinking like that, they are just copying the trend-setter who had seen the loop in the system that ATP have created, most likely, quite willingly in the first place.
I am just not sure, and would like to believe that they did not forsee such Frankenstein-ic consequences....hence all this talk of changing things back a bit....

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:23 pm

Its also the physicality raised by the top players which makes it harder for everybody else to get through a season without injury, hence, need for a physio.

However before being rich, I assume most players can't affoard a team with them....bar Murray I guess who always had huge help from the LTA.

I remember Federer mentioning the first thing he invested in as soon as he got a bit of success was a physio to travel with him. He said it was extremely important and made a whole difference.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:53 pm

I think it's the teams that are making a big difference now. Having the luxury of having one is just going to widen the gap even more.
Every player in to 50 should have one, esp those who travel to all tournaments.

I fear that doping could be seen as a shortcut by the lower ranked players to being able to afford a team.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:36 am

I believe than any tennis athlete being serious about making a living of playing tennis is considering doping if not doped already.

THat's how bad I see the game now. Speeding conds could change that those it is likely to change the drugs used. A good dosage of Meth could be considered to increase reactions.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:10 am

I wonder what Agassi would have to say on the subject.....

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by laverfan on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:02 am

noleisthebest wrote:I fear that doping could be seen as a shortcut by the lower ranked players to being able to afford a team.

Stakhovsky - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 31 (27 Sep 2010) current rank 88.
Djokovic - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 1. Djokovic was ranked 88 on 24 Oct 2005.

Can you explain the difference between the two and why Stakh cannot afford a physio and Djokovic has a six-person team including a physio? Was Djokovic doping when he was ranked 88?

Regarding LA, was Cycling clean before LA showed up in 1999? - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/24/sports/top-finishers-of-the-tour-de-france-tainted-by-doping.html

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:10 am

laverfan wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I fear that doping could be seen as a shortcut by the lower ranked players to being able to afford a team.

Stakhovsky - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 31 (27 Sep 2010) current rank 88.
Djokovic - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 1. Djokovic was ranked 88 on 24 Oct 2005.

Can you explain the difference between the two and why Stakh cannot afford a physio and Djokovic has a six-person team including a physio? Was Djokovic doping when he was ranked 88?

Regarding LA, was Cycling clean before LA showed up in 1999? - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/24/sports/top-finishers-of-the-tour-de-france-tainted-by-doping.html

I can and I am sure you can as well. GSM

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by legendkillar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:46 am

laverfan wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I fear that doping could be seen as a shortcut by the lower ranked players to being able to afford a team.

Stakhovsky - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 31 (27 Sep 2010) current rank 88.
Djokovic - Turned Pro 2003 - Highest rank 1. Djokovic was ranked 88 on 24 Oct 2005.

Can you explain the difference between the two and why Stakh cannot afford a physio and Djokovic has a six-person team including a physio? Was Djokovic doping when he was ranked 88?

Regarding LA, was Cycling clean before LA showed up in 1999? - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/24/sports/top-finishers-of-the-tour-de-france-tainted-by-doping.html

I reckon he was smoking a bit of nandrolone Winking

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by paulcz on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:51 am

Tenez wrote:I believe than any tennis athlete being serious about making a living of playing tennis is considering doping if not doped already.

THat's how bad I see the game now. Speeding conds could change that those it is likely to change the drugs used. A good dosage of Meth could be considered to increase reactions.





Ten, I quite agree with you. The more money is in. the stake, the higher risk of doping occurence there. What is more, the economic outlook in Europe is not good and we know how it is in the south of Europe. ATP can be happy that Greeks do not play on the top. Fortunately they are too lazy anyway.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:09 am

paulcz wrote:[ What is more, the economic outlook in Europe is not good and we know how it is in the south of Europe. ATP can be happy that Greeks do not play on the top. Fortunately they are too lazy anyway.

LOL! I like lazy people. They are usually the talented ones. Winking The dopers are the envious ones trying to keep up with them.

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:20 am

paulcz wrote:

ATP can be happy that Greeks do not play on the top. Fortunately they are too lazy anyway.

Yeah, one look at Baghdatis....

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by laverfan on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:01 pm

paulcz wrote:Fortunately they are too lazy anyway.

Pretty certain you do not have any Greek friends, do you Paul?

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Re: Should Doping Be Allowed In Sport?

Post by ... on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:05 pm

laverfan wrote:
paulcz wrote:Fortunately they are too lazy anyway.

Pretty certain you do not have any Greek friends, do you Paul?

I used to have a Cypriot Greek accountant and he didn't like it when I told him Baghdatis was lazy. Still admitted I was right

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