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ATP 2019 season commences: Doha, Brisbane, Hopman Cup in Perth

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:33 am

2019 season begins before the year 2019 started, and I must say this year, even for the greatest tennis pundits, is highly unpredictable. 

Doha: 

1. Who's playing?

Djokovic(s) yeah he managed entry for his brother too.
Thiem - the only other  top-10.

Khachnov, Goffin and Stan 'the man' wawrinka.


Brisbane.

Strong field for an atp250.

Nadal, Murray, Tsonga, Nishikori, Kyrgios, Medevedev

Hopman Cup:

Fed and Zverev are among the favs.

Tata Open:
 Anderson and Chung headline the field.


Last edited by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:40 am

Scanning through some results:

1. Stan beats ' Khachnov' in 1st rnd.
2. Nick Kyrgios lost of Chardy
3. Nadal and Tsonga are scheduled to meet in 2nd round.
4. Murray wins his first match.

And Delpo is out of AO,19. What a waste.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:43 am

Murray looks to be finished doesn't he? Didn't see the Medvedev match but I saw him limping around in the 1st round, the guy doesn't even walk straight (worse than ever) and there's no way a body is holding up with mechanics like that.

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Post by Jahu on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:28 am

He was about ok in 1st set, then second one totally out, don't know how long can he keep playing without doing more harm to himself.

Stan was super yesterday against Kacha. Hope he is properly back!!

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Post by Jahu on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:35 am

Nadal seems no good, pulled out of Brisbane too.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:59 pm

Jahu wrote:Nadal seems no good, pulled out of Brisbane too.
Any reason? Trouble is, with him I don't believe anything he says anyway.

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Post by Jahu on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:53 pm

Rafael Nadal cast doubt on his fitness for the Australian Open by pulling out of the Brisbane International before his first match.
The Spaniard opted not to play his second match at an exhibition event in Abu Dhabi last week after tweaking his thigh and is worried about the risk of exacerbating the problem.
“I did an MRI and it shows a small strain on my left thigh. I tried to play, I wanted to play, but recommendations from the doctors [were otherwise],” he said. “I feel better than I did four days ago. It’s a risk to damage my body for one month if I play here.”

Usual stuff.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:00 am

Nadal is likely going to pull out from AO-19 too. It's not too far and he, perhaps more than anyone else, needs his body to be fit to execute his game. Even if he gets in the draw he looks like will retire mid-way in a match and take away the credit from his opponent just like the last time ( and on many occasions ).

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Post by bogbrush on Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:25 pm

How do you know that, or are you just guessing based on prior observation?

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Post by DEC1M8 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:43 pm

Nadal is going to win the Australian Open.

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Post by Jahu on Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:32 pm

Could be actually, Nadal taking a page of Djokos book of faking injury and looking tired while de-focusing the other player, than easy surprise win.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:56 pm

Well faking injury to deprive himself of a proper warm up tournament would be moronic, if you watched him at Abu Dhabi it was clear he has a thigh strain. It is very minor though so he should be fit for the Aus Open. Meanwhile if any tennis players are unprofessional enough to let a rival's injury 'defocus' them, then they deserve to lose before the second week.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:58 am

bogbrush wrote:How do you know that, or are you just guessing based on prior observation?

My opinion is based on his tennis playing history.

In the recent Abu Dhabi exhibition tournament ( exho but with big $$$ ), he retired from his 3rd place match. Before that, he only played one match which he lost.

Now he comes to Brisbane, trains and then retires the last min. AO starts on 14 Jan. If his injuries are real, its too close to getting match ready.


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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 am

DEC1M7 wrote:Well faking injury to deprive himself of a proper warm up tournament would be moronic, if you watched him at Abu Dhabi it was clear he has a thigh strain. It is very minor though so he should be fit for the Aus Open. Meanwhile if any tennis players are unprofessional enough to let a rival's injury 'defocus' them, then they deserve to lose before the second week.

Where do you get those BS from? I saw his whole match vs Anderson and there was nothing like 'clear' injury. It was 'very minor' and yet for you, the greatest expert on spotting Nadal's injuries, it was 'clear' bah!!!

 There is nowhere any comment from Nadal about any thigh strain or any injury. Just precautionary rest to be ready before AO.

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/tennis/rafael-nadal-withdraws-from-scheduled-third-place-match-at-mubadala-world-tennis-championship-1.807268


The fan-girls are daydreaming as always ready with their book-of-excuses.  Doh

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Post by DEC1M8 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:28 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
The fan-girls are daydreaming
It may be a new year, but same old ROTLA! Unnecessarily getting angry a people over the internet, take a chill pill.

Nadal said he had some pains after his match vs Anderson (where his movement was poor), and then quit before the 3rd place play off. I could tell something was a bit off with his movement, but to be fair I can see why others who haven't seen Nadal play as much may not have been able to spot it.
If someone has a theory that Nadal is faking his injury and is actually fully fit, I'd say that's pretty stupid, as why would he want to harm himself by not having a warm up tournament before the Aus Open? Conspiracy theories are okay, but ones which involve people harming themselves as part of the conspiracy are retarded.
He said it was a minor injury and he should be fit for Aus Open, footballers have injuries like this that get better within a week or so all the time.

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Post by Jahu on Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:30 pm

Djoko beaten by Agut hahahaha

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Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:15 pm

Have not watched any tennis thus far....but I am sure 2019 is going to be the end of the big 3.

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Post by luvsports! on Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 am

Laugh

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Post by DEC1M8 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:15 am

So much bitterness because he can't fuck Sharapova, sad!

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Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:44 pm

Well I been telling everyone Russia/Russians suckkkk hahahaah

Kaf seems to be on some famous russian magic drugs, moron.

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Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:09 pm

Great doubles match CH/DE, congrats to Fed and Bencic, good tournament.

A masterclass of Fed to Zverev in singles too, please same level of play at AO smiley

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Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:44 pm

Jahu wrote:Great doubles match CH/DE, congrats to Fed and Bencic, good tournament.

A masterclass of Fed to Zverev in singles too, please same level of play at AO smiley
That was last year....have they played this year?

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Post by Jahu on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:26 pm

Today they played, whats wrong with you this 2019? You are on another planet with your predictions too for 2019, get back to reality!!!  Laugh

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Post by summerblues on Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:05 am

Hopefully Fed can win AO.  I have not seen any of his matches, but at least the score vs Zverev looks hopeful.  With Andy and Rafa having niggles, and Nole maybe off form too, who knows?

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Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:28 pm

Jahu wrote:Today they played, whats wrong with you this 2019? You are on another planet with your predictions too for 2019, get back to reality!!!  Laugh
You right. But my days are filled with so many tasks living in the country side (and sea side) but worse I will be starting a new consultancy job tomorrow. Maybe being forced to be seated again will force me back into cyber tennis.


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Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:51 pm

I have been trying to look at old threads where we discussed tennis players average successful years but in vain.

Just to say that the winners and finalists this week:

Nishi 29 W v Dimi 22 F
Agut 30 W v Berdych 33
Anderson 32 W v Karlo (53?) F
and
Federer 37 v Zverev (21?)

So in spite of some youngster doing well, it looks like the trend of players maturing later carries on!...and Nadal, Djoko and Fed are no exception in that department.

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Post by Jahu on Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm

Tenez, good luck with the new project, maybe takes the rust away a little  Whistle

Think I saw a stat for AO this year, 36 or 39 players over 30y old, 2 teens only Shapo and Osuigwe (16!)

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Post by luvsports! on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

It was Medvedev, not Dimi.

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Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:41 pm

Jahu wrote:Tenez, good luck with the new project, maybe takes the rust away a little  Whistle

Think I saw a stat for AO this year, 36 or 39 players over 30y old, 2 teens only Shapo and Osuigwe (16!)
Winking I'll join the tennis club soon...for sure.

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Post by Tenez on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:41 pm

luvsports! wrote:It was Medvedev, not Dimi.
Yep....I got the age right!

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Post by bogbrush on Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:25 pm

summerblues wrote:Hopefully Fed can win AO.  I have not seen any of his matches, but at least the score vs Zverev looks hopeful.  With Andy and Rafa having niggles, and Nole maybe off form too, who knows?
Ah, the hope, the hope.

It kills doesn’t it?Big Grin

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:50 am

DEC1M!7 wrote:It may be a new year, but same old ROTLA! Unnecessarily getting angry a people over the internet, take a chill pill. 

Of course its going to be the same old me. You expect people to change by the calendar?


Nadal said he had some pains after his match vs Anderson (where his movement was poor), and then quit before the 3rd place play off. I could tell something was a bit off with his movement, but to be fair I can see why others who haven't seen Nadal play as much may not have been able to spot it. 

1. More BS. Bring me a quote from a news source or a clip. I saw is on court interview too and there was NO mention of any pain. Read the news on his withdrawl and again no mention of any pain. You making it all up. Admit it.

2. Why do you keep claiming that you have watched Nadal more than anyone here? If by 'watching' Nadal you mean on court playing tennis, then you are wrong. Or perhaps you have also been watching him in his bed-room, showers, in addition to on-court,  then sure you are right.

3. 'tell something was a bit off' and 'minor' and 'clear' do no go in sync.

4. I don't have a theory that Nadal fakes Injuries. I have proved it years ago and you have seen it too. Don't accept it, you can keep your head in a sand-pit.

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Post by barrystar on Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:58 am

bogbrush wrote:
summerblues wrote:Hopefully Fed can win AO.  I have not seen any of his matches, but at least the score vs Zverev looks hopeful.  With Andy and Rafa having niggles, and Nole maybe off form too, who knows?
Ah, the hope, the hope.

It kills doesn’t it?Big Grin

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Post by DEC1M8 on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

Of course its going to be the same old me. You expect people to change by the calendar?
No I was just hoping as you got older your anger issues would clear up, but unfortunately it's not turning out that way.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:1. More BS. Bring me a quote from a news source or a clip. I saw is on court interview too and there was NO mention of any pain. Read the news on his withdrawl and again no mention of any pain. You making it all up. Admit it.
https://www.supersport.com/tennis/more/news/181228/Nadal_satisfied_despite_loss_to_SAs_Anderson
Post match conference: "At the same time, I get pains after a long time without playing, so probably tomorrow (Saturday) I will not play."
Link to full match in HD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rumiCVzgA2M
He was obviously not moving like normal, playing silly shots to compensate for it.
Talk to any expert in sports medicine and they'll confirm that being out for a few months and returning after a surgery increases the likelihood of a thigh strain or similar injuries.

Lastly, there's just no incentive for Nadal to pretend he's injured and not play Brisbane if he was fully fit. There are clear advantages in playing Brisbane, as it gives match practice ahead of Aus Open. There are no negatives, if he played a few matches and eventually lost he wouldn't frankly care about some tinpot event before a Slam.

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Post by Tenez on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:13 pm

Interesting discussion. I personally do not think Nadal fakes injury to excuse his losses. I can;t remember one if I am honest.

However he can fake injury to take time out and/or to allow cycling down like he used to do after Wimbledon or the USO. I have seen him fake injury while playing many times too to gain advantage.

But I would not say he would find injury as an excuse for his losses.

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:24 am

Lost other account details and recovering them sucked.

Anyway, Tenez, you must be living under a rock:

reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/9e0s4m/this_is_at_least_the_11th_slam_loss_where_nadal/

That's Slams only. Nadal ALWAYS makes excuses.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:45 am

Yeah, that surprised me. Last AO he even reprised his previous losses at Slams due to injury.

Like nobody is ever injured, it's just that's he's lucky modern science can stick stem cells and the like in and regenerate him or like players from the past he'd have retired years ago.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:11 am

ROTLA made a specific claim about Nadal faking an injury to skip Brisbane, don't give him an out by making many other allegations. If so, do that one by one.
Last year in Australia, he was 2 sets to 1 up against Cilic when he suffered his muscle tear. He didn't move much at all for end of 4th set and first 3 games of 5th set before quitting. There's just no reason he'd fake an injury there, why would he suddenly give up while beating Cilic?

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:14 am

Daniel2 wrote:Lost other account details and recovering them sucked.

Anyway, Tenez, you must be living under a rock:

reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/9e0s4m/this_is_at_least_the_11th_slam_loss_where_nadal/

That's Slams only. Nadal ALWAYS makes excuses.
You are very tough on Nadal, but did you see Federer's comments in Basel last year?
It's fine by me by the way, I think Federer's right to talk about his injury openly trumps the feelings of the players who may have beaten him while he was injured. I remember even defending Federer on these grounds before.

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Post by barrystar on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:49 am

All players will have to compete when sub-par, how far to push oneself physically is a matter of judgment for each player.  Players know well in advance when they need to be at their best.

Unless it is unavoidable because spectators incontrovertibly see it developing, it is unsporting for the losing player to pee on the winner's bonfire in their hour of glory with excessive talk of injury (although certain lines of questioning can make that difficult), but I agree with DECIM7 that it is legitimate when the dust has settled to discuss past injuries.

I get so bored with the mindset, 'He would have won if he wasn't injured &c &c'.  Even if it's beyond one-eyed fans and hyper-ventilating journalists, players understand that being in shape is a pre-requisite to winning a match and that is nobody else's responsibility.  In a physical sport fitness over a career is one of the many things each player brings to the table by which their 'greatness' is judged vs. their peers.  A persistent lack of fitness at key moments is a mark down, not a reason for 'what if' marking up.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:42 pm

I agree that lack of fitness is a mark down and a limitation, and should be acknowledged as such. I've probably been too generous to Nadal on that front in the past.

Few points to add:

1/ Your 'pee on the bonfire' point I do not agree with. I see that as similar to political correctness getting in the way of the facts. It's frustrating to see when a player upsets a below par injured Federer or Nadal and they receive hype as the next big thing.
If Federer is injured and plays like the world number 50, a youngster beating him should get as much credit and hype as he would beating a world number 50, not Federer at his best.

2/ People have to be consistent and criticise all players when doing it. Daniel is tough on Nadal and even wrote a thread after he lost to Muller speculating about whether he would blame injury (he didn't). However there was no word after Federer talked about his wrist injury last autumn, or Djokovic said immediately after his losses against Kachanov and Zverev late last year that he played way below his best because of his flu.

3/ Nadal haters claiming he faked injury when it's clear only doing so would harm himself is not just tiring, but frankly not very bright. ROTLA did it with him skipping his only warm up tournament this year. Some said it last year when he was 2 sets to 1 up against Cilic, then tore a muscle. I even remember back in 2011 a conspiracy that Nadal's knee injury from early on in a match against Ferrer in the AO QF was fake, and his poor movement for the rest of the match was to convince others of the fake injury, all because he was too scared of Ferrer?

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Post by barrystar on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:51 pm

1. I did not suggest that a player should lie about injury, just approach the subject with a bit of decorum - I'd say the sporting response is to say to the effect that yes, he has been struggling, but it was a worthy win and now isn't the time to dwell on an injury but let the opponent enjoy his win. If we differ, I think it's only a matter of emphasis.

2. Agree - each player should be treated similarly in similar circumstances.

3. I rather agree - whether or not players are horsing around with their schedules is for them and the TD's.  For me it's conduct during a match that counts, so I get worked up when a player calls for the trainer in a match and then seems to bounce back and win with no obvious adverse effect.  I'm no fan of Nadal, and Nadal vs. Del Potro at Wimbledon 2011 is an example I remember, I know Djoko has been criticised for such conduct at times too.  The odd pee break excluded, that's not something usually associated with Federer.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:41 pm

The worst I can ever say of Federer was when he came straight off Court at Wimbledon after losing to Berdych and said he had a bad back. I was at that match and you could see he was not right but he shouldn't have said it.

On the other hand I thought it was brilliant when he was apologising no end to Malisse for taking an MTO in 2012 when he was obviously half-crippled but felt it might have put him off.

I do think Federer regards these things as an imposition on the other player whereas Nadal (for one) seems to see it as an entitlement. I don't recall him apologising for the inconvenience, perhaps I'm wrong.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:57 pm

barrystar wrote:1. I did not suggest that a player should lie about injury, just approach the subject with a bit of decorum - I'd say the sporting response is to say to the effect that yes, he has been struggling, but it was a worthy win and now isn't the time to dwell on an injury but let the opponent enjoy his win. If we differ, I think it's only a matter of emphasis.
Fair

barrystar wrote:I'm no fan of Nadal, and Nadal vs. Del Potro at Wimbledon 2011 is an example I remember
I prefer it when people make specific claims as you just did than more general vague allegations. Let's address this one head on.
This is the link to the Nadal vs Del P point, I've timed it to 8:30: https://youtu.be/rvh201CZYbc?t=509
It's deuce at 5-6 and Nadal hits a forehand down the line winner to set up set point. Instead of celebrating the shot he immediately winces, looking at the feet he just landed on to hit the forehand, before going down. The next point I remember he didn't move at all, and from deuce next couple of points he moved gingerly, losing the game. Called a MTO after the loss of this game.
What is the alternative theory on this? From set point up he faked the immediate reaction of a wince, then as part of his machiavellian scheme he didn't move well for the next few points, all so he could take a fake MTO before a tiebreak which he could have avoided if he had taken the set point?
Winning itself after a MTO is not a crime, as bogbrush pointed out Federer did that will Mallise, and I agree with BB he handled that very classily.

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Post by DEC1M8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:01 pm

bogbrush wrote:
I do think Federer regards these things as an imposition on the other player whereas Nadal (for one) seems to see it as an entitlement. I don't recall him apologising for the inconvenience, perhaps I'm wrong.
You're correct here, no doubt.
Federer sometimes talks about his injury after a match, sometimes he doesn't. One of the times I wish he did put more emphasis on his injury was after his loss vs Zverev in Toronto in 2017. Zverev was so smug after beating injured Federer, and then the commentators and presenters started going on about this great achievement, how he's the next big thing... load of nonsense

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:55 pm

barrystar wrote:I get so bored with the mindset, 'He would have won if he wasn't injured &c &c'.  Even if it's beyond one-eyed fans and hyper-ventilating journalists, players understand that being in shape is a pre-requisite to winning a match and that is nobody else's responsibility.  In a physical sport fitness over a career is one of the many things each player brings to the table by which their 'greatness' is judged vs. their peers.  A persistent lack of fitness at key moments is a mark down, not a reason for 'what if' marking up.

Sure no one wants to hear that.....but if it is true? so what? When I say true, I agree it will never be verifiable. But it is important - and isn't that the very purpose of a forum? - , to suggest such possibilities. It doesn't mean the better did not win on the day.

For instance I am convinced, based on the last 5 encounters, that Fed would have had a positive H2H v Nadal, even on clay!. Sure I cannot prove it but I can argue it. And forums are there for that purpose. Like discussing why Emmerson's record might not be as good as it looks and so on.

Frankly, if someone says Nadal lost cause he was injured, my reaction would be to check the facts more that criticise the fan.

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Post by Tenez on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:06 pm

bogbrush wrote:The worst I can ever say of Federer was when he came straight off Court at Wimbledon after losing to Berdych and said he had a bad back. I was at that match and you could see he was not right but he shouldn't have said it

Yes, I might not have minded as much but it was unlike Federer. Yet, under the emotion of losing I can understand such slip up. However, Berdych's reaction then was much worse in my view.

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Post by Jahu on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:16 pm

Fresh from the oven while we wait for AO start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kpmJuFVG2U

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Post by Daniel2 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:26 pm

At least Fed is over mid thirties.  It's naive to think he isn't injured a lot of the time - and historically he hasn't made any excuses.

Nadal, on the other hand, is a serial complainer and excuse maker.  All through his career. It's relentless.  And he lies as well.  If you are injured, don't participate.  I am also tired of Nadal rewriting history - not an injury in sight with the Rosol match and now years later he claims he was injured. Odious. 

Comparing Nadal's atrocious conduct with Federer's generally great conduct is disingenuous.

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