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Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

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Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:58 pm

Seedings are out today, some thoughts:

There are a couple of pretty heavy possible scenarios for Fedal, possibly Murray and Wawrinka in the first two rounds, obviously both highly beatable in their current states, but unrelaxing opponents nonetheless, then: 

R32 Coric R16 Kyrgios, QF Del Potro SF Cilic

R16 Isner QF Anderson could be tough variants if the grass is fast

R16 Djoko would be unrelaxing even if he is beatable right now, and I suppose you have to put Raonic in that category, but less so I'd suggest.

As the nightmare scenarios tend to show, the 'borders' (namely #4/#5, #8/#9, and #16/#17) fall in interesting places all the way down, increasing the risk of a build up of dangerous players in one part of the draw.


Singles Seeds [ATP Ranking] 
1. Roger Federer (SUI) [2] 
2. Rafael Nadal (ESP) [1] 
3. Marin Cilic (CRO) [5] 
4. Alexander Zverev (GER) [3] 
5. Juan Martin del Potro (ARG) [4] 
6. Grigor Dimitrov (BUL) [6] 
7. Dominic Thiem (AUT) [7] 
8. Kevin Anderson (RSA) [8] 
9. John Isner (USA) [10] 
10. David Goffin (BEL) [9] 
11. Sam Querrey (USA) [13] 
12. Novak Djokovic (SRB) [17] 
13. Milos Raonic (CAN) [32] 
14. Roberto Bautista Agut (ESP) [14] 
15. Diego Schwartzman (ARG) [11] 
16. Nick Kyrgios (AUS) [19] 
17. Borna Coric (CRO) [21] 
18. Lucas Pouille (FRA) [20] 
19. Jack Sock (USA) [15] 
20. Fabio Fognini (ITA) [16] 
21. Pablo Carreno Busta (ESP) [12] 
22. Kyle Edmund (GBR) [18] 
23. Adrian Mannarino (FRA) [24] 
24. Richard Gasquet (FRA) [29] 
25. Kei Nishikori (JPN) [27] 
26. Hyeon Chung (KOR) [22] 
27. Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER) [25] 
28. Denis Shapovalov (CAN) [26] 
29. Damir Dzumhur (BIH) [30] 
30. Filip Krajinovic (SRB) [28] 
31. Marco Cecchinato (ITA) [31] 
32. Fernando Verdasco (ESP) [33]

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:20 pm

question:

for quarters, seeds 5, 6, 7 and 8 are susceptible of meeting seeds 1 and 2? or just 7 and 8?

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Slippy on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:38 am

In the quarters, seeds 1-4 can face any of seeds 5-8.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:49 am

thanks

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 pm

plenty of first round tricky opponents

murray, feliciano, muller, chardy, marterer, khachanov, paire, tsitsipas, tsonga?, haase, M.zverev...

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by summerblues on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:40 am

Heading out on vaca tomorrow - two weeks and London, Paris, Nice.  Should be fun.  Sadly, it looks like I will not make it to Wimbledon Sad.  Maybe some other year.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by summerblues on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:42 am

If Federer crashes out of Wimbledon early, it may be the end of this forum. It is only Fed's continuing success that seems to be keeping it alive.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by bogbrush on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:13 am

Certainly that goes for the forum, but to a lesser extent I think tennis needs him possibly more than ever.

His extraordinary virtuosity combined with virtually spotless reputation and the relentless tumbling of records and all the media focus on those, has skewed the purpose of watching the sport.
He’s attracted so much devotion that fans will be left looking around wondering what’s the point of watching Sasha Zverev and his unimaginative game, or cheering on any particular individual who personality or style don’t  create new experience.

I certainly don’t see a lot of point watching the sport without him and already if he’s not in the draw I tune out. There just isn’t anything worth watching.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:17 am

bogbrush wrote:Certainly that goes for the forum, but to a lesser extent I think tennis needs him possibly more than ever.

His extraordinary virtuosity combined with virtually spotless reputation and the relentless tumbling of records and all the media focus on those, has skewed the purpose of watching the sport.
He’s attracted so much devotion that fans will be left looking around wondering what’s the point of watching Sasha Zverev and his unimaginative game, or cheering on any particular individual who personality or style don’t  create new experience.

I certainly don’t see a lot of point watching the sport without him and already if he’s not in the draw I tune out. There just isn’t anything worth watching.

I didn't think like that in 2016 when he looked to be slowly falling out of contention, but now we have seen the fireworks of his return to competition I find myself agreeing. Perhaps because he now plays so sparingly and has managed such astonishing consistency when he does play, that there is a more marked difference than before between the events he graces and those he does not.  

There is nobody else who combines an attractive playing style with being regularly competitive - players at best have one or the other (in too many cases neither) but not both.  I like del Potro, but it's not really the same thing.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:42 am

PROJECTED QUARTER-FINALS ACCORDING TO SEEDING:


* Roger Federer vs Kevin Anderson, 
* Marin Cilic vs Grigor Dimitrov, 
* Dominic Thiem vs Alexander Zverev, 
* Rafael Nadal vs Juan Martin del Potro


So Nadal has a tough potential QF opponent - but that does not tell us about other dangerous floaters ranked below #8

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:49 am

Nadal has Djokovic in his half...

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:53 am

DEC1M7 wrote:Nadal has Djokovic in his half...

But, but, that wasn't supposed to happen was it?

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:56 am

Federer has Cilic in his half, Nadal has del Boy and Djoko in his.

The Thiem/Zverev quarter in Nadal's half is worth examining.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:13 am

Nadal has Murray, Del P all in his quarter.

Horrific draw.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 am

Here it is Fhttp://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/draws/index.html?event=MS

Relatively even I'd say, sticking to headline names or major grass court risks:

Federer has Coric in his R16 and Cilic in his half

Nadal has the winner of del Potro & Murray in his quarter, and the winner of Djokovic and Kyrgios in his half

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:47 am

in A.zverev´s quarter you have djokovic, edmund and kyrgios, so one of those will get to semis rather than young zverev

in nadals quarter delpo appears as the main obstacle to get to semis, but we know nadal is not the safest bet in first week. Murray, shapo and sock would be alternatives to delpo in quarters

probably M. zverev rather than cechinatto is a hard one for nadal in 3rd round


as for federer, nobody can even make him sweat until coric if he gets there in 4th round

in general they were both lucky


nadal´s half is harder, but most of the risk is not in his quarter, but for delpo

I think for nadal it would be: (not seeds, but my prediction)

dudi sela, kukushkin, M.zverev, fognini, delpo, djokovic, federer

and for federer:

lajovic, lacko, struff, coric, anderson, cilic, djokovic


cilic´s quarter is really a joke

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:09 pm

Quite - the nasty quarter is Zverev's one, so Nadal is seeded to play whoever comes out of that in the SF, if he gets past the QF where he is seeded to meet delpo.  

Thinking about grass court credentials of people in his little section, only really M. Zverev has them.  I reckon getting to the QF is on Nadal's raquet.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Slippy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:14 pm

That top half of the draw is hilarious. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a draw look more unbalanced. Cilic’s section particularly is an absolute cupcake.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Slippy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:16 pm

Murray also has a tough draw given his circumstances:

Paire
Shapovalov 
Del Potro

Ouch.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Slippy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:17 pm

Dimitrov drawing Wawrinka in R1 also deserves a mention.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:22 pm

Slippy wrote:That top half of the draw is hilarious. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a draw look more unbalanced. Cilic’s section particularly is an absolute cupcake.
Thumbs Up

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:39 pm

DEC1M7 wrote:
Slippy wrote:That top half of the draw is hilarious. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a draw look more unbalanced. Cilic’s section particularly is an absolute cupcake.
Thumbs Up

Cilic has a good draw, admittedly; but I don't take either of you to be saying that as between Federer and Nadal one has it notably easier than the other - each are seeded to face two genuine grass-court dangers before the final - Nadal is seeded to meet del Potro in the QF then a SF vs. whoever creeps out of the Zverev quarter; Federer is seeded to meet the form horses on grass, Coric R16 and Cilic SF.

It's the guys in the maelstrom of the Zverev quarter who require sympathy.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by bogbrush on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:00 pm

What matters the most is do you avoid players who could genuinely beat you.

On that basis avoiding Cilic was the top priority, and he's with Federer.

As for the rest, Djokovic is a player who might just be much more dangerous than his seeding and he's with Nadal.

Overall I'd have swapped with Nadal just to avoid Cilic.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by gallery play on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:06 pm

The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels. The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic. All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 

Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by bogbrush on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:37 pm

It does seem a very long time since you looked at a Nadal draw and thought "God, that's a bit brutal!".

Federer would have a real job on to get pact Cilic and then turn up at the final. He must hope really for Cilic to slip up earlier.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:40 pm

gallery play wrote:The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels.The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic.
It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Or maybe again just highlights the depth of their tennis ignorance.
And then they jump up and down when noone takes them seriously...
gallery play wrote:
All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 
Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.
The only good thing there is Fed avoids Nole who may gather some momentum if he can get past Kyrgios or even Edmund who'll have fierce home crowd behind him. So two ifs there.

Regardeless, if Fed makes it to the final in this draw, Cilic will have drained the life out of him.

Bad news is Cilic doesn't have any roadblocks before Fed, so he'll be fresh...Anderson will crack mentally. I wouldn't mind seeing Cilic-Raonic clash. That match may wake up Raonic as it would be a clash of Balkanites, so no given for Cilic (sorry Winking )

No ifs and buts with Nadal, though.

Bottom line is Nadal has a cakedraw in week one (and two) where he is most vulnerable.
Can Dudi Sela who has decent tennis hands be the Chosen one this time and perform another miracle?

Would be awesome!

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:56 pm

Have been travelling... Stuck in the channel tunnel again. 

I have court 1 ticket for weds
... If anyone wants to swap for CC for a bit.... Welcome.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:03 pm

gallery play wrote:The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels. The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic. All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 

Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.
What's more worrying is  the dry weather. All those guys Fed faces are no Rrunners. So even though they are the better players on grass... They might be a better draw than Coric, Zverev and Djoko. Have not seen the draw yet....

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:26 pm

pathetic or not
that was my first anlysis of the draw

as I said: "in general they were both lucky"

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by bogbrush on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm

gallery play wrote:The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels. The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic. All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 

Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.
It does look like all the type of player who have knocked him out for the last many years are secured elsewhere.

He couldn't really have hoped for a better draw I think. Even Djokovic has to get the the semi to play him.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:15 pm

Djokovic is his nightmare opponent, second favourite with the bookies, who is in his half. Whatever draw Nadal got you guys would say the same thing.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:19 pm

Let's remember, Cilic who is being seen as so difficult, was seen as less difficult than Berdych at the Aus Open by Federer fans when Nadal drew him in the QF.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by barrystar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:51 pm

DEC1M7 wrote:Let's remember, Cilic who is being seen as so difficult, was seen as less difficult than Berdych at the Aus Open by Federer fans when Nadal drew him in the QF.  

Whatever was said then, I don't think there's much disputing that Cilic on grass at Wimbledon is, on paper, the most dangerous opponent for top seeds for pretty obvious reasons.  He's last year's finalist, the finalist at AO, and on a strong run of form over his last three tournaments, including a good win at Queens.  He also has a pretty good run at the SF, so is likely to be fresh and blister free.

For me, behind Cilic come del Potro, Djokovic, and Kyrgios (not necessarily in that order), with Coric's recent form putting him up there too.  Both Nadal and Federer avoid dangerous early floaters in the first week.  I'm not convinced by suggestions that Djoko of 2018 is kryptonite for Nadal, we don't really know beyond it being the case that if they get through to the SF it's because they are both on good form.

I think avoiding Cilic on your side of the draw would be first choice for one of the top two, and if you have him on your side you don't want him to have an easy quarter, but overall I don't think the draws are significantly imbalanced.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:42 pm

Nadal was beaten by pouille today at hurlingham club, 7-6 7-5

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:03 pm

It's a funny draw! Looks like there 2 tournaments:

On one side, the grass specialists sorting it out in the the top draw and a second tournaments made of clay specialists and roadrunners fighting it out to play the grass specialist in the final.

Would be great to see a Fed v Coric rematch!


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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:10 pm

summerblues wrote:If Federer crashes out of Wimbledon early, it may be the end of this forum. It is only Fed's continuing success that seems to be keeping it alive.
Frankly Fed has not had much success besides his AO slam. He has played dramatic matches and, like often ended up in the wrong side in spite of some great tennis mixed with poor patches.

I really think he has ran his course...and it will bizarrely coincide perfectly with my moving back to France.


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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:13 pm

but he has a soft path until coric, and I doubt if coric really is a menace

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:17 pm

naxroy wrote:but he has a soft path until coric, and I doubt if coric really is a menace

Not sure. Karlo on grass can sort anyone in 3 TBs on a good day.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by naxroy on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:44 pm

karlovic wont even get there

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:59 pm

All I can reference in time like this is Negan.

To Federer and Nadal fans.

"Get your shitting pants on"

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:06 pm

legendkillar wrote:All I can reference in time like this is Negan.

To Federer and Nadal fans.

"Get your shitting pants on"

t'es marrant!

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:38 pm

naxroy wrote:Nadal was beaten by pouille today at hurlingham club, 7-6 7-5
A devastating blow, this in combination with his nightmare draw means we can once again safely bet that old Nadal isn’t reaching week 2.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Daniel on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:56 pm

gallery play wrote:The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels. The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic. All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 

Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.

Nadal has gotten easy draw after easy draw.  It doesn't seem to end.
And he still gets his arse handed to him nearly all the time at 3 of the 4 slams.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:48 pm

bogbrush wrote:
gallery play wrote:The hypocrisy here is reaching new levels. The pro- Nadal fans here are truly pathetic. All the beforehand mentioned names that could cause troubles for Nadal are in the top half. Cilic, Anderson, Querrey, Coric, Raonic..
FFS even Muller! 

Fed's route to the final is much more tough, anyone can see that. Again it seems Nadal gets more protection than his ranking alone.
It does look like all the type of player who have knocked him out for the last many years are secured elsewhere.

He couldn't really have hoped for a better draw I think. Even Djokovic has to get the the semi to play him.

It's called a rigged draw on OTF.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:

It's called a rigged draw on OTF.
So they've rigged this nightmare draw for Nadal? Disgusting.

Murray in QF, like Fedal in AO 2017- could be a quick comeback form an injury break- huge threat if he builds up momentum? 2 time Wimbledon Champion. Djokovic 3 time Wimbledon champion waiting in the semis, he was superb at Queens, a set up and 4-1 up in the TB before losing focus- he won't lose focus in a Slam like that. 2nd favourite according to the bookies. Mission impossible for Nadal to even reach the final.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by gallery play on Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:46 am

summerblues wrote:If Federer crashes out of Wimbledon early, it may be the end of this forum. It is only Fed's continuing success that seems to be keeping it alive.
It certainly won't help the forum, but the biggest threat here is obviously the trolling of Nadal fans.

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:12 pm

gallery play wrote:
summerblues wrote:If Federer crashes out of Wimbledon early, it may be the end of this forum. It is only Fed's continuing success that seems to be keeping it alive.
It certainly won't help the forum, but the biggest threat here is obviously the trolling of Nadal fans.
A huge threat to the forum, no doubt, but luckily we have your insights as a gatekeeper for the forum.
Important to recognise that while Federer fans deride Nadal's draw for having JDP/Murray in the QF and Djokovic in the SF; the oracle Gallery Play was claiming that Hyung Chung was a mightily tough opponent in the semi of AO.

Chung truly is Djoko 2.0

Fed'd be better off with Djoko than Chung. Too fresh, no mental scars, too fit

Yeah, the way Djoko famously "chances direction" of the ball, Chung simply does better.

Chung is a physical beast of the highest order.
Step aside roadrunners, your time is up


Directed to me: It's going to be fun, when soon Chung will make Nadal look like an old man (like Djoko today) and leaves you speechless and look stupid.

DEC1M7

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:30 pm

DEC1M7 wrote:
gallery play wrote:
summerblues wrote:If Federer crashes out of Wimbledon early, it may be the end of this forum. It is only Fed's continuing success that seems to be keeping it alive.
It certainly won't help the forum, but the biggest threat here is obviously the trolling of Nadal fans.
A huge threat to the forum, no doubt, but luckily we have your insights as a gatekeeper for the forum.
Important to recognise that while Federer fans deride Nadal's draw for having JDP/Murray in the QF and Djokovic in the SF; the oracle Gallery Play was claiming that Hyung Chung was a mightily tough opponent in the semi of AO.  

Chung truly is Djoko 2.0

Fed'd be better off with Djoko than Chung. Too fresh, no mental scars, too fit

Yeah, the way Djoko famously "chances direction" of the ball, Chung simply does better.

Chung is a physical beast of the highest order.
Step aside roadrunners, your time is up


Directed to me: It's going to be fun, when soon Chung will make Nadal look like an old man (like Djoko today) and leaves you speechless and look stupid.

Be humble like your idol and enjoy the privilege from learning from the best, DECIMA.

You won’t find the likes of GP on other boring forums...





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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by DEC1M7 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:46 pm

Who needs others when I have you here NITB Rose

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

Post by Daniel on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 pm

Federer will potentially have to face Coric in R4 and ivo before that.  Coric has just beaten him and won Halle. Federer also may have to play Cilic - the other grass champion.

Nadal has a much easier first 4 rounds compared to Federer - and that's where Nadal is most vulnerable.  We'll see which players they actually get, but seems to me Nadal has gotten away with a lot of the big hitters too (raonic, anderson, ivo, isner) , both grass champions, and trouble early on... with the exception, perhaps, of M Zverev.

Nadal's draw only starts to look bad if he faces kyrgios, A zverev, del potro [this is a maybe, because nadal has good record against him], and maybe murray/djok IF they turn up like they used to.

Daniel

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Re: Wimbledon Seeding and Draw

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