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Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

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Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:11 pm

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/london/311/draws

Quite an easy draw for Federer: No Shapo, No Raonic, No Delpo.....well on grass most draws seem easy for Federer.


Last edited by Tenez on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm

That’s the link for Queens you’ve got...looks pretty loaded.

Here’s the one for Halle:

http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2018/500/mds.pdf



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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by summerblues on Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:49 pm

Yes, Queens is loaded with players. Cilic Verdasco Shapovalov Muller all bunched up together. Halle has higher ranked top players but other than Fed they are not known for grass court prowess.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:05 pm

Thanks NITB...Have updated the title

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:07 pm

So No Chang or Rublev. Shame Rublev did ok last year on grass.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:28 am

Early test for Shapo against Muller. Muller has a very good grass-court game. I doubt shapo can survive this right now.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:58 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Early test for Shapo against Muller. Muller has a very good grass-court game. I doubt shapo can survive this right now.
Shapo needs to switch on the winning machine mode.
Can he do it?

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:09 am

Muller is a very good grass court player, but he's having a stinker of a 2018 including losing 1st round last week whilst defending his title at s'Hertogenbosch.  His runs at Queens and Wimbledon in 2017 are largely propping up his top 50 ranking (540 out of 1050 points).  Unless he's going to wake up, and last week is hardly a strong sign, it might just be a good time to play him right now.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:12 am

The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am

Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


Last year he took a Tue start, but he lost Stuttgart early. I think he will stay with Tue.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:37 am

Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


Up to a point, I'd agree, especially given that the winner has to play the same no. of matches as seeded players at a Masters for half the points, but: (i) the top players are not always busting a gut to win, especially if the 500 is a 'practice run' on a new surface; and (ii) you rarely face the same quality of opponent as at a Masters - this week is an exemplifier of both points when Queens is back-to-back with Halle. 

I reckon that the toughest 500's are probably the Swiss Indoors and Dubai when all players are grooved in on the surface, there are usually a good quota of top players, the tournament sits in the middle of a series on that surface, is not back-to-back with a genuine competitor, and everyone is going there to win.

I don't think there will ever be a Masters on grass and given the logistical impossibilities it's not a realistic matter for regret.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:17 pm

Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!

Absolotely!

Where would Nadal be without his 5000+ points available from clay.
Imagine if it was reverse with grass....

And it’s only in the last uear or so that ATP made an effort to extend grass season....

Mind you, I don’t mind clay per se...if anything there are too many hard court masters 1000.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by naxroy on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:50 pm

3 clay masters is perfect

6 hardcourt masters is way too much

grass should have at least 1 and it should be in the place of one of the hardcourt ones

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:39 pm

At present we have a five week grass court season - three weeks before Wimbledon, and two weeks for Wimbledon.  There is one grass court tournament after it, Newport, but that is really for lower-ranked grass court specialists.

The question is how do you fit a Masters Tournament into that programme - namely a tournament which you make it compulsory for the top 50 to attend and which attracts the bulk of the top 10 year in-year out?

Everyone needs a warm-up period on grass to avoid straining all the muscles they have been using differently on clay - the earliest the tournament could be would be the second week of grass, and that is also the latest it could be to ensure that there is a gap of 1 week between the Masters and Wimbledon.

That would destroy the existing (popular) arrangement of warm-up tournaments.

I think the grass season works extremely well - players have plenty of time to come into Wimbledon prepared; Halle and Queens are worthy tournaments with a good history, and the other preparation tournaments are well-attended by players and popular with the public.  The vast majority of world players will only have experience of grass by way of preparation for Wimbledon (grass is pretty much limited to Northern Europe & East Coat America).  I don't think you'd get enough buy-in from the top 50 to make a Grass Masters viable.

Leave well alone.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by bogbrush on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:58 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


Last year he took a Tue start, but he lost Stuttgart early. I think he will stay with Tue.
The thing in his favour is that the field isn't demanding. Federer should really be off court in some of this under an hour.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:43 pm

bogbrush wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


Last year he took a Tue start, but he lost Stuttgart early. I think he will stay with Tue.
The thing in his favour is that the field isn't demanding. Federer should really be off court in some of this under an hour.

Yup - in the scheme of things if he's worried about the effect on his stamina/health and Wimbledon prospects between starting on Wednesday or Tuesday at Halle he should be considering a well-concealed 'tank'.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:05 pm

And Shapo is out again in the first round...maybe he is a clay courter after all!

More worringly, it's at least his 3rd TB loss in a row.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Look at this Youzhny, he must be a permanent russian tester of gov. drugs.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:46 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:The main question is will Federer start Tuesday to make the most of a rest day or will he start Weds with 5 games in a row? I think ATP500 are the toughest for the least rewarding.

Shame there are no let (alone as many) ATP1000 on grass as there are on clay!


Last year he took a Tue start, but he lost Stuttgart early. I think he will stay with Tue.

Welll done on this one! He is on tomorrow v Bedene.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by summerblues on Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:28 am

Shapo, what are you doing???

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:21 am

naxroy wrote:3 clay masters is perfect

6 hardcourt masters is way too much

grass should have at least 1 and it should be in the place of one of the hardcourt ones

which HC TMS should be replaced with a Grass TMS?

1. IW-Miami - They are mini slams with the biggest draw field for a TMS.
2. Canada- Cinnci - Prep tournaments for US open.
3. Shanghai -  For an Asian continent this is required.
4. Paris bercy - An Indoor hard surface, can be regraded as prep for WTF. But its timing is poor and marred by injuries/retirements and now got worse with WTF in the following week.

The only one I see that can( rather should) be replace is Monte-Carlo or Madrid.

 Hamburg with its history should not have been downgraded to ATP500 from TMS.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:50 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote: Hamburg with its history should not have been downgraded to ATP500 from TMS.

Really agree with that. It was this idiot of Devillier who did more harm than good to the game....including to allow loud music between games.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:14 am

I do not see an upset today from federer.....but would not be surprised if Thursday or Friday, his will to win were to fade a bit in view of resting for Wimbeldon.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by naxroy on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:22 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
naxroy wrote:3 clay masters is perfect

6 hardcourt masters is way too much

grass should have at least 1 and it should be in the place of one of the hardcourt ones

which HC TMS should be replaced with a Grass TMS?

1. IW-Miami - They are mini slams with the biggest draw field for a TMS.
2. Canada- Cinnci - Prep tournaments for US open.
3. Shanghai -  For an Asian continent this is required.
4. Paris bercy - An Indoor hard surface, can be regraded as prep for WTF. But its timing is poor and marred by injuries/retirements and now got worse with WTF in the following week.

The only one I see that can( rather should) be replace is Monte-Carlo or Madrid.

 Hamburg with its history should not have been downgraded to ATP500 from TMS.




9 masters, 3 surfaces, 

but actually no grass and 6 hardcourt 

do the maths

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:47 pm

No one cares for Nadal on Halle/Queens thread when he is not even playing.

Stop polluting every thread with Nadal, comment about matches if you are watching.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:53 pm

Fed sleeping in second set. Barely running, he hurt?

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:15 pm

All over in 1hr 11mins - Fed broke when he needed to go 5-4 and served out to 15.  Looked like a very easy match despite a lull at the beginning of the 2nd set.  Not one bp faced.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:22 pm

I was watching Fed and Nole stereo.

Both Badene and Millman were a pair of eyesores on grass. Dismissed with no sweat.

At one stage both Nole and Fed pulled exactly the same shot, FHDTL and missed hitting the same spot by the same margin...5 seconds after the other, was quite amazing to see.

I like Halle CC, nice, elegant, similar to Wimbledon. Fed was just smoulderingly good looking even in his netted shots. Blush

Nole made no sounds while he was hitting the ball, really enjoyed that.

Now watching Kyrgios-Murray, Kyrgios being watchable and playful, some very nice shots from him.

Murray looks quite ok for someone who's missed a year on tour.

Mind you, that's more thanks to Kyrgios' exo mood, kind of him, I suppose.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:37 pm

Stop press!!!

John Lloyd has just declared Murray a second favourite for Wimbledon.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:49 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Stop press!!!

John Lloyd has just declared Murray a second favourite for Wimbledon.

Where's Greg Rusedski when you need him?

Seriously though, Muzza taking the 1st set 6:2 vs. Kyrgios is exceeding my expectations.  He will not exactly be 2nd favourite, but he'll join Wawrinka as a dangerous floater, Djoko will almost certainly be seeded between 32 and 16 so a possible R1-3 for one of the top seeds could be Stan/Muzza/Djoko....

This is the last year of 32 seeds - can it be a pure coincidence that the regime has overlapped with three of the greatest accumulators of slams of all time?


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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Stop press!!!

John Lloyd has just declared Murray a second favourite for Wimbledon.

You sure it wasn't for Queens?  Laugh

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:29 pm

Andy seems to moan on every shot that is a little longer or makes him twist his body, probably not up to even 50% yet managing to annoy somehow Kyrgios.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Jahu wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Stop press!!!
John Lloyd has just declared Murray a second favourite for Wimbledon.
You sure it wasn't for Queens?  Laugh
Second favourite behind Federer can only be in Wimbledon.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Joke of the month then.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:40 pm

Is Kyrgios' "I'm slapping the ball and having fun because I CAN" defensive mechanism fixable?

I reckon not.

Another waste of talent from Australia. Such a shame both for him and Tomic.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by bogbrush on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:31 pm

What kind of poor exhibition messing about is this?

I’d want my money back.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by bogbrush on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:32 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Stop press!!!

John Lloyd has just declared Murray a second favourite for Wimbledon.
Him & Castle are competing to see who wank the biggest over this joke match.

Good for Murray playing again but he won’t get past the 1st round at Wimbledon. Kyrgios is just being a prat.


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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:34 pm

What the hell is Kyrgios doing playing pat-ball with his forehand slices and going long whenever he has to hit it properly?

I'd go crazy if I were his coach.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:43 pm

Murray "back in action and back in business" according to Castle.  Not so sure about that - not good enough to beat an on-off Kyrgios who was playing within himself.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by legendkillar on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm

No idea what the hell that was. Felt more of an exhibition match. 

For Andy, great to get court time. Not sure it will be enough for Wimbledon.

As for Kyrgios, he needs a throttling!

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:02 pm

This a match paid by Under Armpit to loosen up Andy in 3 easy school yard sets, please Andys fans, some grass court time for Korgi, not bad.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:08 am

I think Djoko could be a good bet for Wimbledon. It looks like he is hitting form again.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by summerblues on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 am

Zverev loses to that grass court prodigy Coric.  Maybe this time he will do well in Wimbledon.  Normally he has good results in the warm-ups and then bombs in the slams.  Could be the other way around now.  But more likely not.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by summerblues on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:20 am

Tenez wrote:I think Djoko could be  a good bet for Wimbledon. It looks like he is hitting form again.
Was he playing well?  He is supposed to win these kinds of matches even on poor form.  Remember, last year he was playing no good and still won Eastbourne.  Everything I have seen from him so far this year is telling me he is very far from being competitive.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Emancipator on Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:46 am

barrystar. wrote:
This is the last year of 32 seeds - can it be a pure coincidence that the regime has overlapped with three of the greatest accumulators of slams of all time?

No, I think it has certainly aided their efforts, along with surface homogenisation. 

But Federer is probably the first to really focus efforts on every slam and the accumulation of slams. Sampras, iirc, wasn't too bothered about AUS early on but later realised that slams were the currency that would define his legacy thus becoming a ruthless accumulator of them.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:31 am

Emancipator wrote:
barrystar. wrote:
This is the last year of 32 seeds - can it be a pure coincidence that the regime has overlapped with three of the greatest accumulators of slams of all time?

No, I think it has certainly aided their efforts, along with surface homogenisation. 

But Federer is probably the first to really focus efforts on every slam and the accumulation of slams. Sampras, iirc, wasn't too bothered about AUS early on but later realised that slams were the currency that would define his legacy thus becoming a ruthless accumulator of them.

I was interested with what you said about Sampras at Aus and, sure enough, Sampras didn't attend for 1991 and 1992 - I don't know why that was.  Certainly he reacted 'strangely' to being USO Champion so young in 1990 and expressed relief at getting the monkey of his back when he failed to defend it in 1991, he also said that it took being properly beaten by Edberg at USO 1992 to appreciate the extent to which he needed to knuckle down and get the best out of himself - he went to Aus 1993 (losing again to Edberg in the SF), but never looked back after Wimbledon 1993.  I  suspect that he wasn't into accumulating slams in 1991-1992 because he was still 'finding himself' rather than because of a failure to appreciate their importance.

On the wider point, though, in the Open Era slam accumulation was certainly not on most of the top player's minds for most of the early 1980's and before then, unless they were Australian that is.  The AO was such a poor relation that it never had fields of 128, and frequently it had fields as small as 56 with a disproportionate amount of lesser Australians making up the numbers.  Lendl and Wilander were the first two top players from the northern hemisphere who regularly attended all the slams, and close behind them Edberg (all are multi-AO winners).  The AO also moved twice in the calender from January to December in the 1970's (there were two in 1977 - January and December), and then back in the 1980's (AO skipped 1986 going from December 1985 to January 1987).  The AO only began to get its current status after 1988 when it moved to HC with a place in an increasingly defined HC period of the early season (since expanded), and draws of 128.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Tenez on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:51 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:I think Djoko could be  a good bet for Wimbledon. It looks like he is hitting form again.
Was he playing well?  He is supposed to win these kinds of matches even on poor form.  Remember, last year he was playing no good and still won Eastbourne.  Everything I have seen from him so far this year is telling me he is very far from being competitive.
Don't know. I did not watch his match.....but from what I saw at the FO, he is improving seriously.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by Jahu on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Stan back to his old fluctuations, loses in 3 sets to Querrey.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by barrystar on Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:15 pm

Funny things happening: Thiem a set down to Sugita, and Cilic a set down to Muller.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:18 pm

Thiem being the usual Thiem. One good tournament followed by a very poor one. This is mental weakness I'm afraid and  will cost him big in his entire career if he can't fix it now. 

First things first, get rid of Gunter. He is not going to take him any further.

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Re: Gerry Webber Open Halle & Queens

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