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ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 1:57 pm

After a tragic first set, Nole must have got sick of himself and said: Right, you are not losing to THAT! Laugh

You can never forget to be a champion.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Still looks flaky to me.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 2:07 pm

Very flaky, but if he wins today it's going to be a big step forward.
I haven't seen him play this confident (despite UEs) for a long time.

He has dug into some deep old reserves of that confidence memory.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 2:15 pm

More concerned about his shot's pace. His shots look weak. Problem is that he does not have an healthy elbow to play with a heavier racquet yet.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 2:19 pm

I think his shot pace is ok, don't rememeber it being different.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 2:38 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I think his shot pace is ok, don't rememeber it being different.
They cannot even expose Kyle's mouvement.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 2:44 pm

Well, this is clay and Edmund has a fast FH.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 2:55 pm

A quick end to a long match. It's not going to help his comeback!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 2:55 pm

Ouch!

Stinging loss. Nole will be kicking himself for letting Edmund off the hook with 00:40 he had at the beginning of the set.

I think he drops to number 18 now.

Positives are that he did play best so far in 2018.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 3:03 pm

I hope Schwartzman is fit&inform, he can give Nadal run for his money.

I don't know if I should bother to watch Nadal-Monfils.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 3:08 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I don't know if I should bother to watch Nadal-Monfils.
Probably not but cannot help.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 3:34 pm

I’ve seen three points from 30:40 BP Monfils, quite enough.
He is moving like a crane.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Since Nadal stands closer to the BL on clay, he forces much more running than in the past.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 3:43 pm

But we have to see whether he can stand that close when he plays Delpo!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by bogbrush on Wed May 09, 2018 3:43 pm

I just don't see where Djokovic is going. Have Nadal or Federer ever needed this sort os period after returning? The only time Federer took a break he came back and won a Slam straight off the bat beating 4 top 10-ers!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 3:51 pm

bogbrush wrote:I just don't see where Djokovic is going. Have Nadal or Federer ever needed this sort os period after returning? The only time Federer took a break he came back and won a Slam straight off the bat beating 4 top 10-ers!
There is no rule in that respect.

Nadal has a simple game to execute, yet he went for over a year of hesitation and poor play before finding his current form.

Federer simply can switch it on as he has that talent.

There is no reason why Nole might not find some form after a while.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 3:56 pm

ohoh we saw a flagrant cheat from referee Lhayani over calling a mark out in in Nadal's favour!

This is a joke. HE showed it at 5ml out and Monfils saw it clearly out but does he care?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Wed May 09, 2018 4:20 pm

Lhayani asking Monfils to slow down between points cause Nadal is not ready.

Angry

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Wed May 09, 2018 4:40 pm

I tuned in to see Monfils bow down to Nadal after a RR style point.

What a loser....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Wed May 09, 2018 4:42 pm

good start for nadal.

Love clay

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Thu May 10, 2018 3:19 am

naxroy wrote:good start for nadal.

Love clay
Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Thu May 10, 2018 3:26 am

Wow!  Just wow what Nole is doing.  He is 6-6 for the year so far.  If he loses his first match in Rome - certainly plausible in his current form - he would probably drop just outside top 32.  Depending on how many players skip RG, he could conceivably be unseeded there.  Still a long shot, but not unthinkable anymore.

And if he continues in his current form, he will almost certainly be unseeded at Wimbledon, and will need wild cards just to enter Canada and Cincy.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 am

Tenez wrote:Shapo is also a basher.
You think so?  I have not seen him since the AO, but I never had the impression he was.  He can hit spectacular winners but when I was watching him last summer I thought he was trying to be quite thoughtful about when to go for big shots.  I did not feel like he was just pulling trigger brainlessly.

Maybe he is bashing more on clay?  I could understand that - his game is not as well suited to clay as to HC, so maybe he feels more pressure to try to go for big shots early - before opponents grind him down?

I don't know, hopefully I will get to see some of his game later this week - even if only replay and not live.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 7:32 am

Tenez wrote:ohoh we saw a flagrant cheat from referee Lhayani over calling a mark out in in Nadal's favour!

This is a joke. HE showed it at 5ml out and Monfils saw it clearly out but does he care?

That is not HE which is shown on TV. That replays are not official, that is just the official ball tracker shown by the TV broadcaster.

Clay has been very stubborn to use HE and eliminate such controversies. 

Human error, can't be eliminated unless we have only robots judging the line calls etc.Do you want to see that?

Everyone gets the benefits of such lines calls. See here: https://youtu.be/1BBtiVdnAFg?t=169

In the long run it evens out.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 7:51 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:ohoh we saw a flagrant cheat from referee Lhayani over calling a mark out in in Nadal's favour!

This is a joke. HE showed it at 5ml out and Monfils saw it clearly out but does he care?

That is not HE which is shown on TV. That replays are not official, that is just the official ball tracker shown by the TV broadcaster.

Clay has been very stubborn to use HE and eliminate such controversies. 

Human error, can't be eliminated unless we have only robots judging the line calls etc.Do you want to see that?

Everyone gets the benefits of such lines calls. See here: https://youtu.be/1BBtiVdnAFg?t=169

In the long run it evens out.

It is HE. Not used officially on clay but still HE technology. The line jduge, Monfils and HE saw it out but Lhayani over ruled every body and everything.
Also disgusting that when Nadal showed that Monfils was serving too fast between points (averaging 19s) by turning his back to him while serving Lhayani again summoned Monfils and not Nadal (averaging 28s).

Would not have made a difference in the result (it seems) but now asking the opponent to slow down his serve to suit Nadal is an absolute joke.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 7:55 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Shapo is also a basher.
You think so?  I have not seen him since the AO, but I never had the impression he was.  He can hit spectacular winners but when I was watching him last summer I thought he was trying to be quite thoughtful about when to go for big shots.  I did not feel like he was just pulling trigger brainlessly.

Maybe he is bashing more on clay?  I could understand that - his game is not as well suited to clay as to HC, so maybe he feels more pressure to try to go for big shots early - before opponents grind him down?

I don't know, hopefully I will get to see some of his game later this week - even if only replay and not live.

Maybe bashing is not the right word but that has the same effect of bashers. Those who go for too much even when not needed. Leconte was really like that. Immensely talented but had to hit the ball 100% even if the opponent is no longer chasing the ball.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am

Tenez wrote:Lhayani asking Monfils to slow down between points cause Nadal is not ready.

Angry


why hasnt monfils complained after the match about such unfair situation?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 9:27 am

naxroy wrote:
Tenez wrote:Lhayani asking Monfils to slow down between points cause Nadal is not ready.

Angry


why hasnt monfils complained after the match about such unfair situation?

It's market laws. He complained enough in front of TV and 1000s spectators.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 9:35 am

Tenez wrote:
naxroy wrote:
Tenez wrote:Lhayani asking Monfils to slow down between points cause Nadal is not ready.

Angry


why hasnt monfils complained after the match about such unfair situation?

It's  market laws. He complained enough in front of TV and 1000s spectators.


yeah he seemed to be very annoyed during the match and when they finished the match

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 9:45 am

It starts right after the first point of the second set. very disrespectful of Nadal to impose his rhythm on return of serve. Woudl he have done that if not in Madrid?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 9:52 am

Time taken between serves also depends on how long is the receiver taking to be ready to receive. Nadal with his silly superstitious routines has been keeping the server waiting.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 9:57 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Time taken between serves also depends on how long is the receiver taking to be ready to receive. Nadal with his silly superstitious routines has been keeping the server waiting.
Superstitious routines? Please. Professionally calculated.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by bogbrush on Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am

summerblues wrote:Wow!  Just wow what Nole is doing.  He is 6-6 for the year so far.  If he loses his first match in Rome - certainly plausible in his current form - he would probably drop just outside top 32.  Depending on how many players skip RG, he could conceivably be unseeded there.  Still a long shot, but not unthinkable anymore.

And if he continues in his current form, he will almost certainly be unseeded at Wimbledon, and will need wild cards just to enter Canada and Cincy.
My outside chance of watching Federer v Djokovic at Wimbledon on day 1 remains.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 10:00 am

HE doesn't always show the correct result. The ball shadow is bigger than actually the surface of the ball that might hit the court surface. So even if the ball mark is out, the HE can show it as in. ( we saw how that 1mm in mattered in the W 08 final ).

An 'out' can be called 'in' by HE, but an 'in' can't be shown 'out'. So in the mentioned case if HE says its out, then it must be.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 10:07 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:HE doesn't always show the correct result. The ball shadow is bigger than actually the surface of the ball that might hit the court surface. So even if the ball mark is out, the HE can show it as in. ( we saw how that 1mm in mattered in the W 08 final ).

An 'out' can be called 'in' by HE, but an 'in' can't be shown 'out'. So in the mentioned case if HE says its out, then it must be.
There you go. Lhyuani to justify his call mimics the mouvement of the ball. Monfils was very cool and behaved as if he knew he had to lose today to save the tournament's business.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 10:23 am

close match that nadal could have lost, but won 6-3 6-1 thanks to umpire decisions

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 10:26 am

Everyone has suffered bad calls. Its has favored everyone at some times. They even out in the long run.


I don't think Lahyani purposely called the ball 'in'. I've seen worse overrules. I'm not sharing the opinion that this is all done to favour Nadal winning ( who is most likely going to win either way ).

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 10:29 am

naxroy wrote:close match that nadal could have lost, but won 6-3 6-1 thanks to umpire decisions
Who said close match? The problem is that rafa like his game does not want to take any risk. Also Nadal's aim is to show the field he is by far the fittest out there. A few long rallies might expose that he is not actually as fit as he wants to appear, this is why he needs to extra seconds between points, to refill his excess of red cells.

If he were to starve slightly of oxygen, his pwer would drop and UEs would follow. Djokovic has exposed that, even though they both took so long between points.

There is nothing left to chance with Nadal.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Everyone has suffered bad calls. Its has favored everyone at some times. They even out in the long run.


I don't think Lahyani purposely called the ball 'in'. I've seen worse overrules. I'm not sharing the opinion that this is all done to favour Nadal winning ( who is most likely going to win either way ).

Of course he did. Everyone suffers bad call....except Nadal! And if he did hed know it's not against him...but a pure mistake. Against Nadal bad calls as calculated as time violation his opponent suffer. Yesterday it was even more ridiculous....time violation (almost) for Monfils for playing too fast....for Nadal that is!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

tenez, enjoy tennis

if you dislike him so much, dont watch nadal


you would miss great clay tennis though

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 11:12 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Everyone has suffered bad calls. Its has favored everyone at some times. They even out in the long run.


I don't think Lahyani purposely called the ball 'in'. I've seen worse overrules. I'm not sharing the opinion that this is all done to favour Nadal winning ( who is most likely going to win either way ).

Of course he did. Everyone suffers bad call....except Nadal! And if he did hed know it's not against him...but a pure mistake. Against Nadal bad calls as calculated as time violation his opponent suffer. Yesterday it was even more ridiculous....time violation (almost) for Monfils for playing too fast....for Nadal that is!

Did you see the youtube link I posted? See it. Only one of the many I've seen.

https://youtu.be/1BBtiVdnAFg?t=169


Last edited by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Thu May 10, 2018 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 10, 2018 11:14 am

naxroy wrote:tenez, enjoy tennis

if you dislike him so much, dont watch nadal


you would miss great clay tennis though

The only reason why tennis fans watch Nadal is to see him lose as he symbolises all that is anti-tennis - he is a cheat who breaks rules, has odious backside picking/sniffing habit, is a doper, stands 6m behind the baseline to receive serves, is not a shotmaker, has ugly sweaty grunty style.

He has robbed tennis fans of nice tennis on clay for the last 12-13 years.

The sooner he retires, the better.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 am

noleisthebest wrote:
naxroy wrote:tenez, enjoy tennis

if you dislike him so much, dont watch nadal


you would miss great clay tennis though

The only reason why tennis fans watch Nadal is to see him lose as he symbolises all that is anti-tennis - he is a cheat who breaks rules, has odious backside picking/sniffing habit, is a doper, stands 6m behind the baseline to receive serves, is not a shotmaker, has ugly sweaty grunty style.

He has robbed tennis fans of nice tennis on clay for the last 12-13 years.

The sooner he retires, the better.


In my opinion, anti-tennis is well represented by haters like you.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 12:07 pm

naxroy wrote:tenez, enjoy tennis

if you dislike him so much, dont watch nadal


you would miss great clay tennis though
You dont get the point. I woudl not dislike Nadal if it wasn't for his dodgy muscles, stamina and on court behaviour. But don;t worry I enjoy when he loses.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 12:30 pm

Tenez wrote:
naxroy wrote:tenez, enjoy tennis

if you dislike him so much, dont watch nadal


you would miss great clay tennis though
You dont get the point. I woudl not dislike Nadal if it wasn't for his dodgy muscles, stamina and on court behaviour. But don;t worry I enjoy when he loses.
 

you are right there, I just dont get it

I ve never watched tennis to see a certain player lose, nor had I ever felt happy for somebody losing

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by naxroy on Thu May 10, 2018 12:41 pm

Good tournament by Edmund

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 10, 2018 1:26 pm

It would be impressive if Shapo can survive Raonic today.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 10, 2018 1:42 pm

What a gorgeous BH pass almost on the run from Shapo to set up a BP!

Finally some magic in caja magica! Magic

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by noleisthebest on Thu May 10, 2018 1:56 pm

And Shapo serves out first set in style.

I really like his BH, he strikes it with such ease! surfer

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Thu May 10, 2018 1:58 pm

It's not elegant but very good. So clearly better than Dimi in spite of the 7 years separating them.

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