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Barcelona 2018

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:39 pm

Sad

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:09 pm

I am such a bearer of bad luck! I connect to the match at 4/5 Goffin to serve to stay in the set.....and makes 3 UEs.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:11 pm

He was quite nervous.  I thought he might get broken even in the game before that one.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:13 pm

summerblues wrote:He was quite nervous.  I thought he might get broken even in the game before that one.

I heard...but I still think he has the game to do it.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:24 pm

He has a better game than most for the task, but doing it RG over Bo5?  Very difficult.

Tsitsipas will be playing plenty of BHs tomorrow, unless Goffin turns it around somehow.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:31 pm

Tsitsi is our only hope.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:37 pm

Just landed in Belgrade, photo of No,e striking BH on the stretch on Lacoste shop. 
27 degrees, sunshine, aaaaaaahhhhh.....

And just found out Nole s in BG, too. Winking
What a coincidence. Big Grin

And yes, great Tsits is in the final.

COME OOOOOOON!!!!! diva

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:40 pm

It is all just regular water guns.  Not even Super Soakers.

At least Tsitsipas is someone new.  Better than watch Rafa play yet another 2nd tier player he has played miilion times before.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:43 pm

It's been very bad sport results for me over the past 2 to 3 weeks.

Frustrating!

Someone please stop Nadal!

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:45 pm

Tenez wrote:Tsitsi is our only hope.
He will find out that all those forehand winners he was hitting today will be coming back as if they had been regular rally shots tomorrow.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:57 pm

Most likely. But I will not cease to believe.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:17 pm

Tenez wrote:Most likely. But I will not cease to believe.
I think Nadal is going to keep winning on clay as long as he wants to. The guy is GOAT on clay, and no one comes even near. 

They come and put a great effort for a set, and then lose it and lose all hope along with it. I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by bogbrush on Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:05 am

Probably true.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:53 am

Tenez wrote:Most likely. But I will not cease to believe.
Believe or hope?  Believe is too strong, but yes, I will always hope.

If Rafa, playing Benoit Paire in RG final, serves 1st serve ace at matchpoint at 6:0 6:0 5:0 40-0 and Paire asks the referee to review the ball mark, I will still hope that the referee will find the serve was out and Benoit stages a comeback from there.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:04 am

This is looking like one of the bleaker run-ups to the RG in years - and that is something since most of them have been quite bleak.  Was there any year that looked more hopeless?

2005-08 were bad but one was always hoping Fed would somehow find the answer.  2010 was hopeful because Rafa had his streak snapped the year before that.  In 2011 and later there was always hope that Nole might prevail.  This year I see nobody who has any hope.

Glass-half empty view:  This is the most depressing run-up, right up there with 2009.

Glass-full view:  But 2009 was the year when Rafa - against all odds - did lose to a "nobody".

Here's hoping that another nobody will become a somebody at this year's RG!

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:48 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:Most likely. But I will not cease to believe.
Believe or hope?  Believe is too strong, but yes, I will always hope.

If Rafa, playing Benoit Paire in RG final, serves 1st serve ace at matchpoint at 6:0 6:0 5:0 40-0 and Paire asks the referee to review the ball mark, I will still hope that the referee will find the serve was out and Benoit stages a comeback from there.

I just don;t think Nadal is unbeatable. Even though the score looks convincing I always feel, it is closer than the score looks. This is what Djokovic thought even when he was beaten by Nadal on clay for the first time and said it candidly in that press room.

You just need to run with Nadal...he will then tire first....but he does his best to show he can last for ever...when in fact he can't.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:53 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:..... I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

There are many records which are likely to stay as long....in fact some will stay longer cause they were achieved before nadal's.

8 Wimbledon is most likely never going to be beaten. Winning 24 finals in a row is also very unlikely to be beaten when you consider the closest record to that is 12. Number of Semis or 1/4F...etc....

and maybe one day....Like Lance's record they will be deleted.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:43 am

History cares more about Wimbledon than anything on clay - so I don't care.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:05 pm

Tenez wrote:I just don;t think Nadal is unbeatable.
Oh I agree.  I am not even convinced he is playing that great this year.  But the competition seems particularly weak.  Federer and Murray are out, Djokovic may as well be out.  Youngsters playing worse than this time last year.  I do not think anyone is putting up even Ferrer level of display.


Last edited by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:09 pm

If Rafa wins in straight sets today, it will be third time he goes through MC and Barcelona without dropping a set.

In 2007 he dropped 52 games, and in 2012 he dropped 56. So far this year it is 42. So unless Tsitsipas wins at least 10 games (or a set), this will be Rafa's most dominant start to the clay court season ever.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:14 pm

As I was looking at the stats I also looked at Tenez's often mentioned claim that Rafa often struggles in the first set.  At least in 2007/12/18 MC and Barcelona that does not seem to be the case:

In 2007, Rafa dropped 22 games in the first sets, and 30 in second sets.  In 2012 the numbers were 27 and 29, and this year so far 20 and 22.  So not much difference between the sets.  If anything, Rafa is marginally more dominant in the first set, on average.

EDIT:. And while I am at it I also looked at the first two sets in Rafa vs Fed matches. They met 15 times on clay. In the opening sets, Rafa has 11-4 edge, while he is 9-6 in second sets. So, again, he does at least as well in set #1 as in set #2.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:30 pm

Scary I agree.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:32 pm

summerblues wrote:As I was looking at the stats I also looked at Tenez's often mentioned claim that Rafa often struggles in the first set.  At least in 2007/12/18 MC and Barcelona that does not seem to be the case:

In 2007, Rafa dropped 22 games in the first sets, and 30 in second sets.  In 2012 the numbers were 27 and 29, and this year so far 20 and 22.  So not much difference between the sets.  If anything, Rafa is marginally more dominant in the first set, on average.

EDIT:. And while I am at it I also looked at the first two sets in Rafa vs Fed matches.  They met 15 times on clay.  In the opening sets, Rafa has 11-4 edge, while he is 9-6 in second sets.  So, again, he does at least as well in set #1 as in set #2.

It's annoying cause I have made the study (probably 4 or 5 years ago) and Federer was a break up or won it in that first more often than not. Will try to do it again.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:16 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Most likely. But I will not cease to believe.
I think Nadal is going to keep winning on clay as long as he wants to. The guy is GOAT on clay, and no one comes even near. 

They come and put a great effort for a set, and then lose it and lose all hope along with it. I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.
I don’t consoder Nadal GOAT on clay simply as I don’t respect his game.

Someone who stands 5m behind the baseline to wait for a serve can’t be valued.

The fact he made conditions etc all work for him is something else. But it ain’t tennis.
It’s junk food of the lowest grade.

The fact masses like it is frankly their problem. You are what you eat.

The only GOAThood  Nadal wins hands down is the pleasure he provides  in seeing him get beaten.

His whole tennis career is an ugly nuisance that will one day be quickly forgotten.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:44 pm

I like what I see. Tsi is not afraid to run...and that's good.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:56 pm

Tsits a little nervous, first serve wobbly...but holding his own.
Missed the very beginning, shame rain interrupted his good prep for the match.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:58 pm

Does Rotla see that Tsi has the better shots?


Last edited by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:00 pm

It's hard for Tsi as he has never played Rafa on clay. But once you get used to the spin and learn to handle it....it's going to be a different story.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:03 pm

Once again, Nadal making most of his points on his opponents UEs. Tsi has more winners than Nadal of course.....in spite of losing the first set.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:09 pm

How cheap and pathetic (and ugly) was Nadal trying to stall and disrupt Tsits serving on 30:40...


If that’s the GOAT, enjoy!

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:17 pm

noleisthebest wrote:How cheap and pathetic (and ugly) was Nadal trying to stall and disrupt Tsits serving on 30:40...


If that’s the GOAT, enjoy!
Yep he did again cause he had just missed 2 of th e3 BPs he had so wanted to make sure he would not miss the 3rd one.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:18 pm

I like Tsits’s BH technique, simple and clean, better than Dimi’s or Thiem’s.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:26 pm

Nadal is tired due to the couple of rallies. Nearly 2 Dfs and easy UEs.

That's why I think he is beatable. he just needs to meet an average Djoko.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:27 pm

The score says 4:0, but it doesn’t reflect balance from the court.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal is tired due to the couple of rallies. Nearly 2 Dfs and easy UEs.

That's why I think he is beatable. he just needs to meet an average Djoko.
Djoko is jogging up some ancient steps in Belgrade fortress with his brother. Totally lost the plot.

Tennis seems to be the last thing on his mind...shame...

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:40 pm

I did not expect such a one sided score but as you said it looked closer than the score says. Nadal hit many lines today.

I was glad to see nadal tiring in the middle of that second set.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:46 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:... I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

You could also say that Borg's 6 FO in a row will never be beaten by Rafa.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by AceofDeath on Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:59 pm

Bring on the grass season.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:12 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Bring on the grass season.
Some more suffering first I am afraid.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:20 pm

For me this clay season is not suffering (any more). Nothing to suffer over, really.
Even in today’s match I was enjoying Tsits’s good FHs and BHs, and nice demeanour on court..I almost wasn’t noticing Nadal.


The only pain is that clay season doesn’t exist any more.
The beautiful spring months in Europe are now forced hibernation for tennis lovers.

It’s been three-four weeks that we haven't had even a half-decent match.

As if Nadal’s put a spell on the entire tour. Everyone is either injured or coming back from injury.

But the truth is, clay is slow and he is like pig in the mud  in those conditions.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:16 pm

noleisthebest wrote:The score says 4:0, but it doesn’t reflect balance from the court.
It is 4:0 on the court, but 0:4 in your heart.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:44 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:..... I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

There are many records which are likely to stay as long....in fact some will stay longer cause they were achieved before nadal's.

8 Wimbledon is most likely never going to be beaten. Winning 24 finals in a row is also very unlikely to be beaten when you consider the closest record to that is 12. Number of Semis or 1/4F...etc....

and maybe one day....Like Lance's record they will be deleted.

8* wimbledon( Fed can certainly add more and I'm sure he will too) are not as impressive for me as of now as the 2nd one on this list is 7-wins. 

Nadal's records at RG are are well above the 2nd place.

Other records like 24 finals, yes... yes will stay for long time.. but my point was in reference to records on a given and the clear dominance he exhibits on clay.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:48 am

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:As I was looking at the stats I also looked at Tenez's often mentioned claim that Rafa often struggles in the first set.  At least in 2007/12/18 MC and Barcelona that does not seem to be the case:

In 2007, Rafa dropped 22 games in the first sets, and 30 in second sets.  In 2012 the numbers were 27 and 29, and this year so far 20 and 22.  So not much difference between the sets.  If anything, Rafa is marginally more dominant in the first set, on average.

EDIT:. And while I am at it I also looked at the first two sets in Rafa vs Fed matches.  They met 15 times on clay.  In the opening sets, Rafa has 11-4 edge, while he is 9-6 in second sets.  So, again, he does at least as well in set #1 as in set #2.

It's annoying cause I have made the study (probably 4 or 5 years ago) and Federer was a break up or won it in that first more often than not. Will try to do it again.

You are making too much of 'a Break up' thing. Clay produces more breaks than any other surface, so being a break up or down doesn't mean as much as on the other surfaces. So it doesn't matter who gets his nose ahead in the set, winning is set is what would be the first thing to look at.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:50 am

Daniel wrote:History cares more about Wimbledon than anything on clay - so I don't care.
 Alright, personal choice. 

But History does care about clay, and French open and Wimbledon are the only 2 Slams that have retained their historic surfaces since beginning.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:53 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:... I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

You could also say that Borg's 6 FO in a row will never be beaten by Rafa.

Some inaccuracy here, Borg won 6 RG but didn't win 6 in a row. 


[/table]
French Open4RWWQFAWWWW


Last edited by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:57 am

Tenez wrote:Does Rotla see that Tsi has the better shots?

I would like to know what is your definition for 'better shots'. Lets get this clear else we would be talking different thing.

How do you define which is a better shot?

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:22 am

Tenez wrote:It's hard for Tsi as he has never played Rafa on clay. But once you get used to the spin and learn to handle it....it's going to be a different story.

Nadal has been winning on Clay since aged 15 years old.( won challengers  this young and without any of the physicality as you often try to bring in for any of his wins.)

And yet there is none none who have learnt to handle it consistently enough to get better of him. Shows how far ahead he has been compared to the field.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:27 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:... I think his records on clay will stay longer than any of other tennis records.

You could also say that Borg's 6 FO in a row will never be beaten by Rafa.

Some inaccuracy here, Borg won 6 RG but didn't win 6 in a row. 


[/table]
French Open4RWWQFAWWWW
Fair point. My memory is failing me but point stands about many other records in tennis.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:36 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:It's hard for Tsi as he has never played Rafa on clay. But once you get used to the spin and learn to handle it....it's going to be a different story.

Nadal has been winning on Clay since aged 15 years old.( won challengers  this young and without any of the physicality as you often try to bring in for any of his wins.)
At the age of 15 without this physicality he was beaten by Gasquet. Nadal became physical quite early. I remember he was mentioned before he won anything significant as a physical player. You are now trying to say that Nadal's physicality is not linked to his wins.....and that frankly is absurd. Nadal's wins are completely linked to his fitness. He has never won anything on clay or on any other surface without this physicality...which in turns gives him so much confidence. That confidence crumbles as soon as as he has the slightest physical trouble.  

And yet there is none none who have learnt to handle it consistently enough to get better of him. Shows how far ahead he has been compared to the field.
Disagree. Djoko handled him consistently. Not over 10 years but Djoko completely worked out Nadal when on form and you are only making the most of this now that Djoko is injured or down. But it's like talking of Nadal performances in 2015 and 16....that would be unfair.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:44 am

He has not won 2/3 his slam and 3/4 of his TMS on clay by any chance. That's because this surface typically allows him to retrieve better than anywhere else.

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Re: Barcelona 2018

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