ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
There is something really ugly in Zverev's game...and as Koening said, with his size he should be serving much better.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
There is zero finesse about him, that’s what it is.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishi does it, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
Let’s hope he can recover and give us a match tomorrow!
Let’s hope he can recover and give us a match tomorrow!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishi did it. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
...and it is only noon here!
...and it is only noon here!
summerblues- Posts : 5068
Join date : 2012-05-19
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
summerblues wrote:Nishi did it. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
...and it is only noon here!
Great, shops have just opened, off you go!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Good from Ninja!!!
Well I;m watching FedCup USA-FRA superb match compared to this MC
Well I;m watching FedCup USA-FRA superb match compared to this MC
Jahu- Posts : 4103
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
LOL, indeed.noleisthebest wrote:Great, shops have just opened
summerblues- Posts : 5068
Join date : 2012-05-19
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
I have now watched the first set of Rafa vs Thiem. Rafa was playing ok, but not phenomenally so. It was mostly about Thiem playing very poorly.
If Rafa plays like he is playing right now, then he is beatable. There is of course a chance he is in the second gear and perfectly able to step it up if needed. Also, last year he did not hit his stride until midway through Barcelona either (in spite of winning MC).
Young guys are depressing me. All the best ones - Zverev, Thiem, Kyrgios - are playing worse this year than last. Coric is playing better than last year, but he will never be good enough to go all the way to the top.
If Nishi is to have a chance tomorrow, he will need to play far better than today. He was very up-and-down, and barely beat a very poor Zverev.
If Rafa plays like he is playing right now, then he is beatable. There is of course a chance he is in the second gear and perfectly able to step it up if needed. Also, last year he did not hit his stride until midway through Barcelona either (in spite of winning MC).
Young guys are depressing me. All the best ones - Zverev, Thiem, Kyrgios - are playing worse this year than last. Coric is playing better than last year, but he will never be good enough to go all the way to the top.
If Nishi is to have a chance tomorrow, he will need to play far better than today. He was very up-and-down, and barely beat a very poor Zverev.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
Join date : 2012-05-19
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
summerblues wrote:I have now watched the first set of Rafa vs Thiem. Rafa was playing ok, but not phenomenally so. It was mostly about Thiem playing very poorly.
If Rafa plays like he is playing right now, then he is beatable. There is of course a chance he is in the second gear and perfectly able to step it up if needed. Also, last year he did not hit his stride until midway through Barcelona either (in spite of winning MC).
so Young guys are depressing me. All the best ones - Zverev, Thiem, Kyrgios - are playing worse this year than last. Coric is playing better than last year, but he will never be good enough to go all the way to the top.
If Nishi is to have a chance tomorrow, he will need to play far better than today. He was very up-and-down, and barely beat a very poor Zverev.
Thiem played poorly, but Nadal put too much pressure on him. I don't call them unforced, he grabbed Thiem by the nuts and forced him to yield.
Dimi, well can't handle pressure. Losing serve with 2 DF serving to stay in 1st at 4*-5. And then was clueless what to do. Barely availed a bagel.
Yes young guys are depressing, more so on clay. Its remarkable how good Nadal was and still is on clay. How to beat him has been known for more than 13 years, and yet there is none who could do it consistently. The only consistent is Nadal.
Clearly show how above everyone else he is on clay, multiple levels up.
If he wins 2/3 MTS before RG, he win surely win RG too.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
Join date : 2012-07-20
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Let’s hope Nishi can remember that he did beat Nadal on clay before and show once again that he is beatable.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
He almost did....but never quite beat Nadal on clay.noleisthebest wrote:Let’s hope Nishi can remember that he did beat Nadal on clay before and show once again that he is beatable.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
You’re right...I just checked...they only played twice on clay.
First time was what stayed in my mind as a win as he was leading and demolishing Nadal 6:2 3:1 in Madrid and than faded and retired due to injury.
And second time was close in Barcelona 16 final 6:4 7:5.
So maybe third time lucky!
Come on, Nishi you CAN do it!
First time was what stayed in my mind as a win as he was leading and demolishing Nadal 6:2 3:1 in Madrid and than faded and retired due to injury.
And second time was close in Barcelona 16 final 6:4 7:5.
So maybe third time lucky!
Come on, Nishi you CAN do it!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
I am hoping he can make Nadal nervous with his BH. Nadal hates those punchy cross court BHs taken early....a la Nalby.
But Nishi will be nervous!
But Nishi will be nervous!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
It's going to be hard for Nishi to maintain that level. He needs Nadal to tire with shorter balls.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishi is the better player on clay....over 3 games!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Just saw the Barca draw...even harder for nadal than MC. Likely to play Nishi in the second round.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nadal back to over 30s between points.....being over the allowed time 91% of the time! Once a cheat, always a cheat!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
..and with less time between points, Nadal would lose power and precision.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Tenez wrote:Nadal back to over 30s between points.....being over the allowed time 91% of the time! Once a cheat, always a cheat!
What a surprise!
Tuning in now, hopefully not all hope lost.
Come on, Nishiiii!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
So it was just one break of serve in the 1st set....the match is young!
Hope Nishi continues to put pressure on Nadal.
Go Nishiii!!!
Hope Nishi continues to put pressure on Nadal.
Go Nishiii!!!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nadal at the net....
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Btw, that ball was 100% out. Llayani is as bad as linesmen.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Another stolen point by Llayani,
This is beyond anything I’ve seen.
How nan anyone respect Nadal....
This is beyond anything I’ve seen.
How nan anyone respect Nadal....
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishi is not aggressive enough....I know it would be riskier....but has he a choice?
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
noleisthebest wrote:Another stolen point by Llayani,
This is beyond anything I’ve seen.
How nan anyone respect Nadal....
Strangely HE was not shown on those 2 close points.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishi lost soirit to fight after rpeatedly being cheated blatantly by linesmen and Llayani.
He politely stayed on the court because of the crowd.
Well I am very proud of myself for yelling out what a cheat Nadal was in Roland Garros.
And if ever I see Llayani I’ll tell him he should be ashamed of himself.
It’s important that the voice of truth is heard.
He politely stayed on the court because of the crowd.
Well I am very proud of myself for yelling out what a cheat Nadal was in Roland Garros.
And if ever I see Llayani I’ll tell him he should be ashamed of himself.
It’s important that the voice of truth is heard.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
I just realised I posted (of all my zillions of posts here!!!) this one in a totally difderent section od OTF!!!
Almost as bad as Nishi hitting that ball I was postong about!
Well...very interesting and definitely not a coincidence.
Almost as bad as Nishi hitting that ball I was postong about!
Well...very interesting and definitely not a coincidence.
noleisthebest wrote:and if it’s not enough Nishi is havng to fight umpire, rule breaking opponent and linesmen, he is now gifting Nadal a point by going for the ball which was flying 2m out...
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
He will get him in Barcelona.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Well well, nothing new.
Jahu- Posts : 4103
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Tbh, I’m not even that bothered any more....(like I used to be)...the cheat will stink, sweat and uglify tennis for a few more years and then disappear into oblivion...
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
We need guys with everlasting lungs like the Kenyan marathon runners to compete on this surface. I can only see Nadal winning the RG without dropping a set again, if he is fit.
AceofDeath- Posts : 448
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
noleisthebest wrote:Btw, that ball was 100% out. Llayani is as bad as linesmen.
It was close but its not certain. You can't be sure seeing it on a monitor at home.
I really think hawk-eye should be deployed on clay as well, it eliminates all such human errors to a very large extent.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
Join date : 2012-07-20
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nishikori didn't lose because of 1-2 points. He never looked like winning at all.noleisthebest wrote:Nishi lost soirit to fight after rpeatedly being cheated blatantly by linesmen and Llayani.
He politely stayed on the court because of the crowd.
Well I am very proud of myself for yelling out what a cheat Nadal was in Roland Garros.
And if ever I see Llayani I’ll tell him he should be ashamed of himself.
It’s important that the voice of truth is heard.
Nadal's game on clay is almost as good as it can get. His court coverage is greatest, his court speed is 2nd to none, he can defend and attack on the run like no other, his footwork is the best ever, he can run around the FH and generate great power and the most acute angles. The angles and accuracy he can get even from 5-6m behind the line is impeccable, he can change the direction of the shot like no one. He can't be rushed enough times on slow clay. He
He is almost perfect on clay.
Now what can the opponent do now? He can only win if someone can do the above equally well and has better serving than Nadal.
Which only peak and Djoko had in the last 15 years, that too for some time. It was good while it lasted.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
Join date : 2012-07-20
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
I would not say Nadal's game is perfect on clay because of his shots/tennis. A lot of players have made him look stupid even on this surface. However he is almost perfect due to the physical effort it takes to produce that kind of tennis for 2 or 3 sets.
But if you looked at what Nishi and many others such as Chung, Federer, Stan, Sod, Shwartzman, Djoko, Murray can do to him even on clay, then Nadal has not got the best game. He has by far the most consistent game, preventing competition to play their best...but IF they do, it's far better than Nadal's game.
But if you looked at what Nishi and many others such as Chung, Federer, Stan, Sod, Shwartzman, Djoko, Murray can do to him even on clay, then Nadal has not got the best game. He has by far the most consistent game, preventing competition to play their best...but IF they do, it's far better than Nadal's game.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Tenez wrote:I would not say Nadal's game is perfect on clay because of his shots/tennis. A lot of players have made him look stupid even on this surface. However he is almost perfect due to the physical effort it takes to produce that kind of tennis for 2 or 3 sets.
But if you looked at what Nishi and many others from Chung, Federer, Stan, Sod, Shwartzman, Djoko, Murray even can do to him even on clay, then Nadal has not got the best game. He has by far the most consistent game, preventing competition to play their best...but they do, it's far better than Nadal's game.
Stupid?? I didn't see when any of the above made Nadal look stupid on clay?? Can you bring some matches when this happened? They may have a few good points, some great winners, 1-2 wins too, but compare the overall result since Nadal came on the scene. Not even Djoko couldn't beat him before at RG before 2015 ( the Peak Djoko).
Its not about the physical effort, not as much as you are making it look like. The targets Nadal gives on clay are very very small. and its almost impossible to keep hitting it enough times to beat time especially in bo5. The opponent has no where to go in the end. He can turn defense into attack in to time, gets passes from 6m behind the base-line and generates so acute angles with power, its alomst impossible to deal with.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
Join date : 2012-07-20
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Looking at NITB clip she posted yesterday, it illustrates perfectly what I say above.
Nadal is scrapping right and left and his main goal is to bring the ball back. But once again, physically it's really tough for Nishi, especially as he cannot rely on cheap points on his serve, like Djoko could.
That is what makes Nadal "almost" perfect on clay cause he asks the toughest question there: fitness....not because of his shots, who are only good when his opponent allow him to dictate.
Nadal is scrapping right and left and his main goal is to bring the ball back. But once again, physically it's really tough for Nishi, especially as he cannot rely on cheap points on his serve, like Djoko could.
That is what makes Nadal "almost" perfect on clay cause he asks the toughest question there: fitness....not because of his shots, who are only good when his opponent allow him to dictate.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Djoko also makes him look stupid in that FO2013. Nadal is scrapping right and left...including in that rally where he misses that crucial smash....Nadal is completely out of teh court hoping for a mistake.
Federer has made Nadal look stupid on clay by bagelling him and giving him a few breadsticks there. It's just doing it over the distance that was difficult.
Federer has made Nadal look stupid on clay by bagelling him and giving him a few breadsticks there. It's just doing it over the distance that was difficult.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Tenez wrote:Djoko also makes him look stupid in that FO2013. Nadal is scrapping right and left...including in that rally where he misses that crucial smash....Nadal is completely out of teh court hoping for a mistake.
Federer has made Nadal look stupid on clay by bagelling him and giving him a few breadsticks there. It's just doing it over the distance that was difficult.
So they made him look stupid for a shot time, while he makes them look stupid all the time. Tennis is about making the opponent look stupid. None have beaten him enough times to make him looks stupid.
RG 2013, one point didn't decide the match. Nadal was ahead in the match, Djo won the 4th set TB.
I think you look down upon the act of running down every ball to defend. You look down upon the act of returning from 4-5m behind the BL. That's why he looks stupid to you.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it.
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
gallery play- Posts : 2620
Join date : 2012-09-05
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
But that's my point. "time". Over the distance Nadal has most often the last word..but that's down to his fitness not his shotmaking, even if he hits a very heavy ball. Nadal is currently lucky that Djoko, Murray and Nishi have had bad injuries....and that fed is not playing clay. Nadal used to beat Fed right and left...now he can't.raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
So they made him look stupid for a shot time, while he makes them look stupid all the time. Tennis is about making the opponent look stupid. None have beaten him enough times to make him looks stupid.
I am afraid but that point decided the match. And I am sure you agree Djoko was playing terriblein long stretches....yet he had Nadal in his racquet.RG 2013, one point didn't decide the match. Nadal was ahead in the match, Djo won the 4th set TB.
That's one reason he looks stupid to me. He is just hoping for UEs. It's his opponents UEs count which makes him look good, not his shots.I think you look down upon the act of running down every ball to defend. You look down upon the act of returning from 4-5m behind the BL. That's why he looks stupid to you.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
Join date : 2012-06-18
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
He is not 'hoping for errors'. He can't be 'hoping' for 15 years and still be winning over 90% of his matches on clay with 10RGs titles.
He makes the target smaller, and smaller...this is certainly not 'hoping for the errors'. Calling this 'hoping for errors' is like someone saying Fed's shots right in the corners painting the lines are 'hoping for the ball to be in'.
... and turns defense into attack on the very first opportunity. And his counter attack is often lethal. The angles he can generate with his FH is like no other.
Plus his shot selection.
He makes the target smaller, and smaller...this is certainly not 'hoping for the errors'. Calling this 'hoping for errors' is like someone saying Fed's shots right in the corners painting the lines are 'hoping for the ball to be in'.
... and turns defense into attack on the very first opportunity. And his counter attack is often lethal. The angles he can generate with his FH is like no other.
Plus his shot selection.
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it.
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
raiders_of_the_lost_ark- Posts : 3499
Join date : 2012-07-20
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it.
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
Let's put it this way, he has not got the best game on clay over a set....but has it over a 3 or more. I have seen better clay game over a set and even very rarely even over B03 and Bo5. Fed has teh best game over a set as well as over B03 and Bo5 outside clay.
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Yes, but it’s still a reactive game, rotla.raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it.
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
Nadal is not a shotmaker.
If he was he wouldn’t be camping 4m behind the baseline.
He’s made the most of current super slow conditions, without them he is like fish out of water...
What kind of a player is he when he likes high bounce, come ooooon!
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Who does have a better clay game than Rafa over one set then? Very few players win any sets against him at all.Tenez wrote:raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it.
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control.
The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
Let's put it this way, he has not got the best game on clay over a set....but has it over a 3 or more. I have seen better clay game over a set and even very rarely even over B03 and Bo5. Fed has teh best game over a set as well as over B03 and Bo5 outside clay.
Slippy- Posts : 517
Join date : 2016-10-23
Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Fognini, Nishi, Murray, of course, Nole, Fed, Soderling etc.
If the balls were faster like they used to be or should be to balance out the larger frames now, even more players could beat him over a set and probably over a match.
If the balls were faster like they used to be or should be to balance out the larger frames now, even more players could beat him over a set and probably over a match.
noleisthebest- Posts : 27907
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Over a third of Nadal TMS1000 tally (31) was won in Monte Carlo! That's absurd!
Tenez- Posts : 21050
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
He's one dimensional and lucked out with this pathetic rabble. It makes total sense.
Daniel- Posts : 3645
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nobody managed to win more than 5 games against Rafa. Ouch! And I really think he was not even playing that well yet - I am sure he will be better at RG.
It looks like we are going to be having another depressing clay court season.
At this point I would not mind if Djoko miraculously rediscovered his 2011/2015 form.
It looks like we are going to be having another depressing clay court season.
At this point I would not mind if Djoko miraculously rediscovered his 2011/2015 form.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018
Nobody currently alive has better clay court game than Rafa - over a set or five.
The only one who might have been better was Nole at his absolute best (RIP). And even that was close, plus he was not able to sustain his best year after year like Rafa has been.
The only one who might have been better was Nole at his absolute best (RIP). And even that was close, plus he was not able to sustain his best year after year like Rafa has been.
summerblues- Posts : 5068
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