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ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:52 pm

There is something really ugly in Zverev's game...and as Koening said, with his size he should be serving much better.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:00 pm

There is zero finesse about him, that’s what it is.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Nishi does it, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

Let’s hope he can recover and give us a match tomorrow! diva


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by summerblues on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Nishi did it.  Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

...and it is only noon here!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:04 pm

summerblues wrote:Nishi did it.  Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

...and it is only noon here!

Great, shops have just opened, off you go! Laugh

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Jahu on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:08 pm

Good from Ninja!!!

Well I;m watching FedCup USA-FRA superb match compared to this MC  Big Grin

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:59 am

noleisthebest wrote:Great, shops have just opened
LOL, indeed.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by summerblues on Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:06 am

I have now watched the first set of Rafa vs Thiem.  Rafa was playing ok, but not phenomenally so.  It was mostly about Thiem playing very poorly.

If Rafa plays like he is playing right now, then he is beatable.  There is of course a chance he is in the second gear and perfectly able to step it up if needed.  Also, last year he did not hit his stride until midway through Barcelona either (in spite of winning MC).

Young guys are depressing me.  All the best ones - Zverev, Thiem, Kyrgios - are playing worse this year than last.  Coric is playing better than last year, but he will never be good enough to go all the way to the top.

If Nishi is to have a chance tomorrow, he will need to play far better than today.  He was very up-and-down, and barely beat a very poor Zverev.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:28 am

summerblues wrote:I have now watched the first set of Rafa vs Thiem.  Rafa was playing ok, but not phenomenally so.  It was mostly about Thiem playing very poorly.

If Rafa plays like he is playing right now, then he is beatable.  There is of course a chance he is in the second gear and perfectly able to step it up if needed.  Also, last year he did not hit his stride until midway through Barcelona either (in spite of winning MC).
so Young guys are depressing me.  All the best ones - Zverev, Thiem, Kyrgios - are playing worse this year than last.  Coric is playing better than last year, but he will never be good enough to go all the way to the top.

If Nishi is to have a chance tomorrow, he will need to play far better than today.  He was very up-and-down, and barely beat a very poor Zverev.

Thiem played poorly, but Nadal put too much pressure on him. I don't call them unforced, he grabbed Thiem by the nuts and forced him to yield.

Dimi, well can't handle pressure. Losing serve with 2 DF serving to stay in 1st at 4*-5. And then was clueless what to do. Barely availed a bagel.

Yes young guys are depressing, more so on clay. Its remarkable how good Nadal was and still is on clay. How to beat him has been known for more than 13 years, and yet there is none who could do it consistently. The only consistent is Nadal.

Clearly show how above everyone else he is on clay, multiple levels up. 

If he wins 2/3 MTS before RG, he win surely win RG too.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:27 am

Let’s hope Nishi can remember that he did beat Nadal on clay before and show once again that he is beatable.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:48 am

noleisthebest wrote:Let’s hope Nishi can remember that he did beat Nadal on clay before and show once again that he is beatable.
He almost did....but never quite beat Nadal on clay.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:59 am

You’re right...I just checked...they only played twice on clay.
First time was what stayed in my mind as a win as he was leading and demolishing Nadal 6:2 3:1 in Madrid and than faded and retired due to injury.



And second time was close in Barcelona 16 final 6:4 7:5.

So maybe third time lucky!

Come on, Nishi you CAN do it!diva

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:47 pm

I am hoping he can make Nadal nervous with his BH. Nadal hates those punchy cross court BHs taken early....a la Nalby.

But Nishi will be nervous!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:03 pm

It's going to be hard for Nishi to maintain that level. He needs Nadal to tire with shorter balls.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Nishi is the better player on clay....over 3 games!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Just saw the Barca draw...even harder for nadal than MC. Likely to play Nishi in the second round.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:24 pm

Nadal back to over 30s between points.....being over the allowed time 91% of the time! Once a cheat, always a cheat!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:27 pm

..and with less time between points, Nadal would lose power and precision.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal back to over 30s between points.....being over the allowed time 91% of the time! Once a cheat, always a cheat!

What a surprise!

Tuning in now, hopefully not all hope lost.
Come on, Nishiiii! diva

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:44 pm

So it was just one break of serve in the 1st set....the match is young!
Hope Nishi continues to put pressure on Nadal.

Go Nishiii!!! tennisball

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:54 pm

Nadal at the net....Laugh

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Btw, that ball was 100% out. Llayani is as bad as linesmen.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:01 pm

Another stolen point by Llayani,

This is beyond anything I’ve seen.
How nan anyone respect Nadal....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:01 pm

Nishi is not aggressive enough....I know it would be riskier....but has he a choice?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:02 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Another stolen point by Llayani,

This is beyond anything I’ve seen.
How nan anyone respect Nadal....

Strangely HE was not shown on those 2 close points.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:24 pm

Nishi lost soirit to fight after rpeatedly being cheated blatantly by linesmen and Llayani.

He politely stayed on the court because of the crowd.

Well I am very proud of myself for yelling out what a cheat Nadal was in Roland Garros.

And if ever I see Llayani I’ll tell him he should be ashamed of himself.

It’s important that the voice of truth is heard.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:27 pm

I just realised I posted (of all my zillions of posts here!!!) this one in a totally difderent section od OTF!!! Yikes

Almost as bad as Nishi hitting that ball I was postong about!

Well...very interesting and definitely not a coincidence.

noleisthebest wrote:and if it’s not enough Nishi is havng to fight umpire, rule breaking opponent and linesmen,  he is now gifting Nadal a point by going for the ball which was flying 2m out...  Doh Doh Doh

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:29 pm

He will get him in Barcelona. Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Jahu on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:34 pm

Well well, nothing new.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:35 pm

Tbh, I’m not even that bothered any more....(like I used to be)...the cheat will stink, sweat and uglify tennis for a few more years and then disappear into oblivion...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by AceofDeath on Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:44 pm

We need guys with everlasting lungs like the Kenyan marathon runners to compete on this surface. I can only see Nadal winning the RG without dropping a set again, if he is fit.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:36 am

noleisthebest wrote:Btw, that ball was 100% out. Llayani is as bad as linesmen.

It was close but its not certain. You can't be sure seeing it on a monitor at home. 

I really think hawk-eye should be deployed on clay as well, it eliminates all such human errors to a very large extent.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:46 am

noleisthebest wrote:Nishi lost soirit to fight after rpeatedly being cheated blatantly by linesmen and Llayani.

He politely stayed on the court because of the crowd.

Well I am very proud of myself for yelling out what a cheat Nadal was in Roland Garros.

And if ever I see Llayani I’ll tell him he should be ashamed of himself.

It’s important that the voice of truth is heard.
 Nishikori didn't lose because of 1-2 points. He never looked like winning at all. 


Nadal's game on clay is almost as good as it can get. His court coverage is greatest, his court speed is 2nd to none, he can defend and attack on the run like no other, his footwork is the best ever, he can run around the FH and generate great power and the most acute angles. The angles and accuracy he can get even from 5-6m behind the line is impeccable, he can change the direction of the shot like no one. He can't be rushed enough times on slow clay. He

He is almost perfect on clay. 

Now what can the opponent do now? He can only win if someone can do the above equally well and has better serving than Nadal.

Which only peak and Djoko had in the last 15 years, that too for some time. It was good while it lasted.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:00 am

I would not say Nadal's game is perfect on clay because of his shots/tennis. A lot of players have made him look stupid even on this surface. However he is almost perfect due to the physical effort it takes to produce that kind of tennis for 2 or 3 sets.

But if you looked at what Nishi and many others such as Chung, Federer, Stan, Sod, Shwartzman, Djoko, Murray can do to him even on clay, then Nadal has not got the best game. He has by far the most consistent game, preventing competition to play their best...but IF they do, it's far better than Nadal's game.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:11 am

Tenez wrote:I would not say Nadal's game is perfect on clay because of his shots/tennis. A lot of players have made him look stupid even on this surface. However he is almost perfect due to the physical effort it takes to produce that kind of tennis for 2 or 3 sets.

But if you looked at what Nishi and many others from Chung, Federer, Stan, Sod, Shwartzman, Djoko, Murray even can do to him even on clay, then Nadal has not got the best game. He has by far the most consistent game, preventing competition to play their best...but they do, it's far better than Nadal's game.

Stupid?? I didn't see when any of the above made Nadal look stupid on clay?? Can you bring some matches when this happened? They may have a few good points, some great winners, 1-2 wins too, but compare the overall result since Nadal came on the scene. Not even Djoko couldn't beat him before at RG before 2015 ( the Peak Djoko).

Its not about the physical effort, not as much as you are making it look like. The targets Nadal gives on clay are very very small. and its almost impossible to keep hitting it enough times to beat time especially in bo5. The opponent has no where to go in the end. He can turn defense into attack in to time, gets passes from 6m behind the base-line and generates so acute angles with power, its alomst impossible to deal with.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:13 am

Looking at NITB clip she posted yesterday, it illustrates perfectly what I say above.



Nadal is scrapping right and left and his main goal is to bring the ball back. But once again, physically it's really tough for Nishi, especially as he cannot rely on cheap points on his serve, like Djoko could.

That is what makes Nadal "almost" perfect on clay cause he asks the toughest question there: fitness....not because of his shots, who are only good when his opponent allow him to dictate.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:16 am

Djoko also makes him look stupid in that FO2013. Nadal is scrapping right and left...including in that rally where he misses that crucial smash....Nadal is completely out of teh court hoping for a mistake.

Federer has made Nadal look stupid on clay by bagelling him and giving him a few breadsticks there. It's just doing it over the distance that was difficult.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:25 am

Tenez wrote:Djoko also makes him look stupid in that FO2013. Nadal is scrapping right and left...including in that rally where he misses that crucial smash....Nadal is completely out of teh court hoping for a mistake.

Federer has made Nadal look stupid on clay by bagelling him and giving him a few breadsticks there. It's just doing it over the distance that was difficult.

So they made him look stupid for a shot time, while he makes them look stupid all the time. Tennis is about making the opponent look stupid. None have beaten him enough times to make him looks stupid.

RG 2013, one point didn't decide the match. Nadal was ahead in the match, Djo won the 4th set TB. 

I think you look down upon the act of running down every ball to defend. You look down upon the act of returning from 4-5m behind the BL. That's why he looks stupid to you.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by gallery play on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:29 am

Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it. 
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control. 

The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:58 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
So they made him look stupid for a shot time, while he makes them look stupid all the time. Tennis is about making the opponent look stupid. None have beaten him enough times to make him looks stupid.
But that's my point. "time". Over the distance Nadal has most often the last word..but that's down to his fitness not his shotmaking, even if he hits a very heavy ball. Nadal is currently lucky that Djoko, Murray and Nishi have had bad injuries....and that fed is not playing clay. Nadal used to beat Fed right and left...now he can't.

RG 2013, one point didn't decide the match. Nadal was ahead in the match, Djo won the 4th set TB. 
I am afraid but that point decided the match. And I am sure you agree Djoko was playing terriblein long stretches....yet  he had Nadal in his racquet.

I think you look down upon the act of running down every ball to defend. You look down upon the act of returning from 4-5m behind the BL. That's why he looks stupid to you.
That's one reason he looks stupid to me. He is just hoping for UEs. It's his opponents UEs count which makes him look good, not his shots.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:24 am

He is not 'hoping for errors'. He can't be 'hoping' for 15 years and still be winning over 90% of his matches on clay with 10RGs titles. 

He makes the target smaller, and smaller...this is certainly not 'hoping for the errors'. Calling this 'hoping for errors' is like someone saying Fed's shots right in the corners painting the lines are 'hoping for the ball to be in'. 

... and turns defense into attack on the very first opportunity. And his counter attack is often lethal. The angles he can generate with his FH is like no other.

Plus his shot selection.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:29 am

gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it. 
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control. 

The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
 Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:41 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it. 
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control. 

The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
 Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.

Let's put it this way, he has not got the best game on clay over a set....but has it over a 3 or more. I have seen better clay game over a set and even very rarely even over B03 and Bo5. Fed has teh best game over a set as well as over B03 and Bo5 outside clay.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:07 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it. 
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control. 

The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
 Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.
Yes, but it’s still a reactive game, rotla.
Nadal is not a shotmaker.

If he was he wouldn’t be camping 4m behind the baseline.

He’s made the most of current super slow conditions, without them he is like fish out of water...

What kind of a player is he when he likes high bounce, come ooooon!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Slippy on Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal is a very reactive player. 9 out of 10 times you see the same pattern: the first 6 games it's a close combat and from then on he does exactly what he has to and walks away with it. 
So best game -whatever that may be- or not, he has everything under control. 

The thing is: a reactive game shouldn't be so effective...
 Maybe then its more than just a reactive game. Its not a secret what he does on clay, but there is none who can consistently beat it. Forget consistently, beating him even once is extremely difficult.

Let's put it this way, he has not got the best game on clay over a set....but has it over a 3 or more. I have seen better clay game over a set and even very rarely even over B03 and Bo5. Fed has teh best game over a set as well as over B03 and Bo5 outside clay. 
Who does have a better clay game than Rafa over one set then? Very few players win any sets against him at all.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:26 pm

Fognini, Nishi, Murray, of course, Nole, Fed, Soderling etc.

If the balls were faster like they used to be or should be to balance out the larger frames now, even more players could beat him over a set and probably over a match.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:13 pm

Over a third of Nadal TMS1000 tally (31) was won in Monte Carlo! That's absurd!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by Daniel on Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:43 pm

He's one dimensional and lucked out with this pathetic rabble.  It makes total sense.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by summerblues on Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:35 am

Nobody managed to win more than 5 games against Rafa.  Ouch!  And I really think he was not even playing that well yet - I am sure he will be better at RG.

It looks like we are going to be having another depressing clay court season.

At this point I would not mind if Djoko miraculously rediscovered his 2011/2015 form.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

Post by summerblues on Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:39 am

Nobody currently alive has better clay court game than Rafa - over a set or five.

The only one who might have been better was Nole at his absolute best (RIP).  And even that was close, plus he was not able to sustain his best year after year like Rafa has been.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo 2018

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