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Indian Wells

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:50 pm

It looks a bit faster though today. Probably night play is the worst.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:05 pm

Fed was just not playing well. I do not think it was his back. When he has back issues he usually plays a little differently - less power hitting, more slices and trying to win with guile alone. Yesterday he was hitting the ball - just hitting it out a lot.

Conditions or opponent may not be helpful, but even outside of that, he was just off.

Maybe he figures he can come in cold and play himself into form. Plus I doubt he is too stressed out about how well he does here anyway.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:29 pm

Nole looks like a shadow of his old self.

Amazing what a difference confidence makes.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:42 pm

Djokovic looks rubbish, really terrible. Hard to know where to start but he looks powerless.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:06 pm

bogbrush wrote:Djokovic looks rubbish, really terrible. Hard to know where to start but he looks powerless.
He is not muscling the ball any more.
He actually played better in AO.

Looks like even he doesn’t like sandy courts any more.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:36 pm

Looks like he’ll get through this though. Maybe he just needs some matches.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:55 pm

As bad as Daniel is think he should win that one. Djoko is way worse than at the AO.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:59 pm

and Daniel breaks.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:01 pm

Daniel has the same game as Djokovic....but with a fresh pair of legs.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:01 pm

Looks knackered, understandably I suppose.

Funny to see him under pressure to hit winners.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:02 pm

Quite funny. After copying the Western cars, the japanese copy the Western games. They wish they could copy Federer's game.....

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:06 pm

If anything, it;s Djoko's legs the problems....more than his shots.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:10 pm

Oh his legs have completely gone.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:12 pm

I suppose Djokovic would take it being fitness, that’ll come back.

Far more important that (i) the elbow is ok, and (ii) the remodelled serve hangs together.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:12 pm

It will take a lot more time for Djoko to get back to his level....teh problem is by the time he gets back to his best level...the tour will have moved on to higher levels even.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Delbonis is the Brad Gilbert of the new century.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:40 pm

Finally, a sight for sore eyes...

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Tenez wrote:Daniel has the same game as Djokovic....but with a fresh pair of legs.
It was a horrible match from both, I stopped watching in the third set.


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Daniel has the same game as Djokovic....but with a fresh pair of legs.
It was a horrible match from both, I stopped watching in the third set.

I only saw the 3rd and Daniel played solid. Djoko was really bad....well he gave up early.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Listening on Radio as I write something - sounds like Federer is getting the bit between his teeth.

Commentators are clear that IW is the slowest of the HC Masters, and saying that the surface is v. rough and kicks the ball up.  Saying how much it would suit Nadal.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:02 pm

barrystar wrote:Listening on Radio as I write something - sounds like Federer is getting the bit between his teeth.

Commentators are clear that IW is the slowest of the HC Masters, and saying that the surface is v. rough and kicks the ball up.  Saying how much it would suit Nadal.
Exactly like that.

Fed is playing well, just that the comditions are giving other players more time and making it longer to winnpoints.
Fed still managing to s&v.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:12 pm

This is now very tight - he does not want to collapse into a third set crap-shoot.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:15 pm

In spite of the hiccup in the TB, Federer was playing pretty well.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:15 pm

Fed needed some help from Delbonis in the end, but is safely through at least.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:16 pm

barrystar wrote:Listening on Radio as I write something - sounds like Federer is getting the bit between his teeth.

Commentators are clear that IW is the slowest of the HC Masters, and saying that the surface is v. rough and kicks the ball up.  Saying how much it would suit Nadal.
Miami used to be the slowest...But nothing was as slow as last year USO.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Tenez wrote:In spite of the hiccup in the TB, Federer was playing pretty well.  
Definitely much better than yesterday.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:22 pm

Having some taro tea (never realized how yummy it was) and thinking of the Nole match.

Shocking result.  I was only able to watch until 6:5 in the first set.  Nole was not at his best, but he seemed ok-ish and he certainly looked way better than Daniel.  Did Nole just run out of gas or did something else happen?  With Nishi pulling out, Nole's draw would have been opening up if he had only managed to get there.

So far, I am really enjoying Nole's 2018 return to the tour.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:26 pm

Djokovic started well but was faltering long before he ran out of steam. He had no bite to his game, it was all very safe and his opponent smelt that there was nothing to fear in rallying.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:28 pm

Djoko looked flat footed. His speed on the court was everything to his game. Sure his shots were not nearly as good as back then but to me that was mostly down to his legs....cause his shots were never really good anyway.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:34 pm

You think he’s got a chance to come back or not?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:43 pm

summerblues wrote:Having some taro tea (never realized how yummy it was) and thinking of the Nole match.
What’s taro tea?
summerblues wrote:
Shocking result.  I was only able to watch until 6:5 in the first set.  Nole was not at his best, but he seemed ok-ish and he certainly looked way better than Daniel.  
I started at 4:1 in the first set, so he must have had a good start.
I saw a couple of “old” Nole points, but most of it was hard to stomach: low confidence, gutless, high percentage shots with no bite...he looked petrified in fact...definitely his worst match I’ve seen.
summerblues wrote:Did Nole just run out of gas or did something else happen?  With Nishi pulling out, Nole's draw would have been opening up if he had only managed to get there.
I think he is rusty and super low on confidence.
Mind you, he played much better in Oz, I can’t explain why he was so scared today.
summerblues wrote:
So far, I am really enjoying Nole's 2018 return to the tour.
He’ll come back but slowly...probably for indoor autumn season.
Strangely, I think he doesn’t want slow courts any more.


Last edited by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:46 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:44 pm

bogbrush wrote:You think he’s got a chance to come back or not?

Come back yes...at the very top..much more doubtful.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:46 pm

Ostapenko is a pain to watch. Spraying all over the court. Looks like she is good good on clay cause she has more time to aim and pull...but way too many UEs outside clay....as far as I saw.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:48 pm

I watched her previous match (and a few other since RG) she has changed a bit, hasn’t adjusted to pressure well.


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:You think he’s got a chance to come back or not?

Come back yes...at the very top..much more doubtful.
Another important part of his game, besides the court speed, was his flexibility....and that certainly won;t get any better from now on. ..though I am now sure how it plateaus.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Imagine if at the end of 2013 you were told that of the 'big 4' in 2018 there'd be only one player fully fit for both the Australian Open and IW, who would recapture the AO title he won in 2017 and go into IW as #1 defending the first leg of the sunshine double he also won in 2017.

None of us would have got the identity of the player right - I still can't quite believe it.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 pm

My biggest surprise today was how poorly Nole was returning...even Daniel’s second serves.

He was also regularly netting his BHDTL and all short, low FHs.

A shell of his old self.

Painful loss, not sure how he is going to regroup, stg has to click in his head or else he is finished.


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:53 pm

barrystar wrote:Imagine if at the end of 2013 you were told that of the 'big 4' in 2018 there'd be only one player fully fit for both the Australian Open and IW, who would recapture the AO title he won in 2017 and go into IW as #1 defending the first leg of the sunshine double he also won in 2017.

None of us would have got the identity of the player right - I still can't quite believe it.

I can! Big Grin

It’s wonderful, no?

How does that beer ad go: all good things come to those who wait! Cheers

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:17 am

noleisthebest wrote:What’s taro tea?
http://coloradocoffeecompany.net/blog/11627/Taro-Bubble-Milk-Tea-Recipe

Normally I do not much care for it - I think it is really more for Chinese teenage girls - but it was yummy today.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:19 am

barrystar wrote:Imagine if at the end of 2013 you were told that of the 'big 4' in 2018 there'd be only one player fully fit for both the Australian Open and IW, who would recapture the AO title he won in 2017 and go into IW as #1 defending the first leg of the sunshine double he also won in 2017.

None of us would have got the identity of the player right - I still can't quite believe it.
I do not think I would have guessed it even at the end of 2016.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:25 am

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:What’s taro tea?
http://coloradocoffeecompany.net/blog/11627/Taro-Bubble-Milk-Tea-Recipe

Normally I do not much care for it - I think it is really more for Chinese teenage girls - but it was yummy today.

I got the yummy bit the first time.. Laugh


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:33 am

noleisthebest wrote:I got the yummy bit the first time.. Laugh
Glad you did.  I am not going to pretend I was not thrilled to see the score, but it is all in good humor.

I won't begrudge you your happy dance if he ever comes back and wins a few more slams (Yikes).

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:45 am

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I got the yummy bit the first time.. Laugh
Glad you did.  I am not going to pretend I was not thrilled to see the score, but it is all in good humor.
I think you are confusing me with certain Nadal fans...
If I wasn’t Serbian, I’ve probably thrilled, as well.
summerblues wrote:
I won't begrudge you your happy dance if he ever comes back and wins a few more slams (Yikes).
I can’t imagine him winning slams...not while healthy Federer is around.
He can’t even get past Taro Daniel!

But I’d be proud if he could for one minute forget about money and play like a man...or at least like when he was younger.
This fearfulness he’s shown today was tough to watch.

Maybe I am too hard, and Nole is, as GP says - just human.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:14 am

Djoko has a lot on his plate: (a) the elbow; (b) the new service action; (c) basic match fitness - although that should be the least of his worries; (d) having recently cleared out his team, perhaps not for pure tennis reasons; (e) these 'on court' issues could muck up the mind of even the best adjusted and happy player; (f) he does not seem to be particularly well-adjusted or happy - there's the family situation and what I'd term the 'man child' problem - the long-term issue of his strong but unrequited desire to be universally loved.

There may be a bit of the 'Tiger Woods' in his situation - but as a golfer Tiger has had more time to deal with his issues than a tennis player.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:21 am

Tenez wrote:It will take a lot more time for Djoko to get back to his level....teh problem is by the time he gets back to his best level...the tour will have moved on to higher levels even.

Completely agree. And I would say his time of dominating the tour is over. He hasn't fallen down the rankings like Delpo, but coming back to the top is totally different thing.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:25 am

It looks like it's going to take a few more years for Zverev to really be a dominant player. Is he the new Raonic?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:35 am

barrystar wrote:
There may be a bit of the 'Tiger Woods' in his situation - but as a golfer Tiger has had more time to deal with his issues than a tennis player.

And even then Tiger Woods wasn't able to deal enough to getting back to top like before. And this is how its likely going to be for Djokovic.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:42 am

And another loss for Shcha Zvereev too. I see that the tour is shaping itself back to the the 98-2003 times when upset of the top seeds wasn't really as rare as it became during the last decade.

Year End top-10 this year is more unpredictable that it has been in the last 15 years.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:47 am

Yep. Difficult to predict.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:45 am

Needs a specific thread really, it’s very big when a #1 looks like fading fast, especially the implications for other players left behind.

Anyone want to set out the framework of discussion? Barry did a good job above abd I don’t want to plagiarise his post.

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