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Indian Wells

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:32 am

legendkillar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:This is why it was smart to try to defend IW / Miami, he can set himself right through to Wimbledon with a great fortnight here and kick back until Stuttgart / Halle.

And that assumes Nadal returns fully healthy. Any frailty on clay and Federer would be odds-on to go through to the year end.

My thinking too. 2018 is shaping up to be a great year for him. If he bags the IW/Miami double, can't see Nadal getting near the No.1 this year. 

Amazing to think by April the rest of the tour will be fighting for scraps from the top table.

"could be fighting for scraps from the top table" - he's got 8 matches to win first, and a kamikaze effort at the clay on Fed's part or even just the back making itself heard at some inopportune moment could undo everything......

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:43 am

barrystar wrote:Federer grunting quite a lot on serve and some biggish swats - a bit of shanking here and there too.  If Chung cuts out those UE's he'll be formidable in a grindy relentless sort of way.

If I'm right that this week on a sandy hard court is pretty hard work - Fed is hopefully forming the view that a clay season is best avoided.

The fact he makes quite a few UEs means he is not as much as a grinder we think. I find his ball really heavy and flat...on many occasions.
.....
or you could say that if he doing well here.....why not try clay?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by legendkillar on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:48 am

barrystar wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:This is why it was smart to try to defend IW / Miami, he can set himself right through to Wimbledon with a great fortnight here and kick back until Stuttgart / Halle.

And that assumes Nadal returns fully healthy. Any frailty on clay and Federer would be odds-on to go through to the year end.

My thinking too. 2018 is shaping up to be a great year for him. If he bags the IW/Miami double, can't see Nadal getting near the No.1 this year. 

Amazing to think by April the rest of the tour will be fighting for scraps from the top table.

"could be fighting for scraps from the top table" - he's got 8 matches to win first, and a kamikaze effort at the clay on Fed's part or even just the back making itself heard at some inopportune moment could undo everything......

Can't see Fed playing Clay. Hard to see currently in the field who could take him out..

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:13 am

Federer on Chung....before the match.

Q. Can you talk a little bit about Chung Hyeon? Everybody says his play style is kind of similar to Novak. Do you feel the same way? If you have talked to him before, what kind of guy he is?

ROGER FEDERER: I don’t know him well enough to tell you I know him personally very well. It’s been very short, you know, and nice, to be honest. Hey, how you doing? Nice to see you. Congratulations. Well done, whatever. Bad luck, you lost or I lost.

No, but he seems like a nice guy, very level-headed. I think similarities to Novak’s game are particular, which is mostly in his movement, the way he’s able to slide to his forehand and to his backhand with the open stance, you know, which not many guys do or do it as extensively as Chung does.

That’s the only similarity I see. You know, service motion, all the other motions are very, very different. It’s a Chung motion, if you like. Nobody has that kind of motion, I think, which is good.

But I see where the similarities come from with Novak and it’s not a bad one to have, to be honest, because Novak has maybe the best footwork on hard courts we have ever seen.

So it’s just a question for Chung to see that he can maintain that level, you know, with the blister, with injuries, over the course of the next 10, 15 years to make sure he stays injury-free and doesn’t get injured three months of the year.

But it’s highly explosive, it’s highly impressive what he does, and I think he’s going to be a great player. How good will still remain to be seen. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, and I think he’s going to be, yeah, very successful.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:47 am

Reading that - it's a reminder that Fed is just so freed up these days; he seems to be in a permanent state of calm and focused bliss.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:55 am

I agree with Federer that the similarities are essentially the mouvement though Djoko was much lighter on his feet. So the similarity to me is just the extreme retrieving on both wings (while really stretched).

Shot wise, Chung is much more explosive than Djokovic, seems to hit flater. According the stats of last night match, Fed injected more spin than Chung on average from both winds.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by barrystar on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:14 am

Tenez wrote:I agree with Federer that the similarities are essentially the mouvement though Djoko was much lighter on his feet. So the similarity to me is just the extreme retrieving on both wings (while really stretched).

Shot wise, Chung is much more explosive than Djokovic, seems to hit flater. According the stats of last night match, Fed injected more spin than Chung on average from both winds.

So does that mean that Chung's game may not be so suited to clay?  Wasn't Connors a flat-hitting baseliner too?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:23 am

barrystar wrote:
Tenez wrote:I agree with Federer that the similarities are essentially the mouvement though Djoko was much lighter on his feet. So the similarity to me is just the extreme retrieving on both wings (while really stretched).

Shot wise, Chung is much more explosive than Djokovic, seems to hit flater. According the stats of last night match, Fed injected more spin than Chung on average from both winds.

So does that mean that Chung's game may not be so suited to clay?  Wasn't Connors a flat-hitting baseliner too?
Depends....Soderling was hitting quite flat too.

I have seen Chung put a lot of spin v Cuevas the round before but the thing I like about his game (and I am not a fan overall) is that he can flatten it and hurt.

Not sure you saw how he played nadal last year on clay (Barelona) but he was a break up and nadal got a bit lucky to come back and win that first set. He has made some good progress in one year. No-one beisdes Chung got 8 games v Nadal that week.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by gallery play on Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Besides: his weakness (the serve) will be less consequential on clay. 
Like Nole, his game should work out fine on clay.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:19 pm

For me, Chung's main obstacle atm is stamina.

He is a lot heavier than Nole and is not light on his feet. So not that energy efficient.

His hand skills are great though.

If he can add a bit of serve variation, he's sorted.

His game is same as Nole's so, will be tough to play against.
It's just that fine balance which is hard to predict, what will work better in this era - the trade off between having fast shots and not so fast legs (Chung) or the other way round (Nole).

Also, I think he's able to build a transition game.
Nole's game is quickly becoming obsolete, so Chung's got to add something to it if he wants to win big.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Also, Chung reminded me of Nishi last night, he loses heart quickly.
That is very not Nole.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by AceofDeath on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:36 pm

There's not many players with the heart to compete like the big 3 nitb. Also Chung needs to pack more punch in his serves if he wants to go further.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by bogbrush on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:38 pm

What’s happened to Raonic’s serve?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:47 pm

...and FH?

Querrey choked serving formthr set, so suddenly Raonc looks better without doing anything.

I can’t believe I am watching this...tennis of such low quality.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:13 pm

Delpo and Kholi, that’s more like it!

Proper players with plenty of skill.

Kholi making Delpo run like crazy with dropshots....which don’t even work as the ball bounces so high....

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 pm

Kholi is such a decent player, didn’t realise he is only 1.76m tall.

Outplaying Delpo with some old school tennis thinking.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:29 pm

And just as I said that, Delpo breaks, Kholi having an enegy dip...no such problem for Del Potro who is belting the ball like there is no tomorrow.

Go Kholi! diva

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:37 pm

And just in case we forget which tournament this is, a sea of trout pouts, fake tan etc....confirms it’s sIlicom valley....there isn’t a normal face in the crowd except for coaches and the box.

Scary.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:37 pm

Decider.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:29 pm

And that’s that...Sad

Kholi had his chances and didn’t use them. Simple as that.

Why?
Now that’s a $64K  question.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:02 am

I missed it all...but looks like I did not miss much!

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:17 am

Has anyone seen Coric?  How is he playing?  Does he have a chance against Fed?  I have not seen him play in a looong time.  The last time I saw him I thought he was woefully underpowered, but his results this week look quite impressive.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:27 am

I haven’t seen Coric, but really don’t think Fed’s got anyone to worry him in IW.

He is in spectacular form, full of confidence.


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 am

summerblues wrote:Has anyone seen Coric?  How is he playing?  Does he have a chance against Fed?  I have not seen him play in a looong time.  The last time I saw him I thought he was woefully underpowered, but his results this week look quite impressive.

He runs as much as ever but seems to have more powerful shot. Of course he has a chance....but if Fed stays fit it should be 2 sets. I don;t rate the players in the bottom draw.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:16 am

It looks like youngsters are making breakthrough quicker in WTA than ATP.

Two new-ish players that loook less athletic than the older ones yet are able to beat them: Katsakina and Osaka are in the IW final.

I haven’t watched them this week, just noticed the results - Katsakina knocked out Venus in three long sets (from 00:30, 4:5 down), Osaka beat Halep.

I saw Osaka briefly in the doubles match vs Switzerland in Hopman Cup.

Both her and Katsakina seem to have effortles power and they don’t grunt. Houraaaa!

I wonder if either will be able to distinguish herself as a dominating force for more than 6 months.

Where are the quick feet and heart of Henin, beautiful movememnt of Jelena Jankovic, athleticism if Kim Clijsters...too many muscles and boring bashing clones now thanks to Williams bros.

Same effect as Nadal had on ATP.

A generation of talented players retired too early the rest injured...

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:54 am

Looking at Katsakina in this clip, I realise she has a men’s FH...much shorter swing, that’s the way women’t tennis is going to go.


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:34 am

I like this kasatkina....Was it her I said recently I have a new WTA favourite?

I am not sure about the short swing. She takes the ball quite early and places the ball very well...that's talent!

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:02 pm

The swing just says she does not bash the ball, yet has same effect as Venus (look how big a backswing hers is).

I still like Ostapenko most of current women. 100% heart.

I’d love to see her play Bartoli now that she is back.

But really, women’s tennis is finished for me. It’s crossed that physical line, no more joy in anyone.

Their faces are all pain and strain.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:21 pm

Coric’s game is tragic!

Trying to play like  early Murray, pushing the ball....I feel sorry for Federer.
It’s like having a conversation with someone who has a 10 word vocabulary.

Maybe that’s why he even didn’t bother shaving! Laugh

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Koening said something similar when asked about Coric on TennisTv. He says he sees other youngsters doing better than Coric unless Coric becomes a bit more offensive....which clearly in my view is trying to do.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:30 pm

11am is quite early for a 36yo! I expect Fed to loosen up and play better as his body warms up.


Last edited by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:37 pm

Fed’s bh looks a bit “old’...like he is playng in 2nd gear.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:39 pm

I think he is playing in 2nd gear. I expect he will be putting far more pressure on Coric the next couple of service games. He did the same vs Chung. Did not really bother until late in the first set.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:41 pm

Mmmm....Fed very casual on returns...as if he doesn’t want to be on the court.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:46 pm

Uh oh.  I did not plan for this.  I do not have time to watch three sets today.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:48 pm

Is Fed tanking?

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Coric is applying the very simple plan versus federer! Everything on the BH!

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:51 pm

Reminds me so much Miami 2005 final when fed was not playing too well at first and teh copter was circling around the court really upsetting Federer.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:52 pm

Tenez wrote:Coric is applying the very simple plan versus federer! Everything on the BH!
Still no attempts to go DTL with it.

Something’s fishy.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:52 pm

First sign of fragility for Fed this week. I still expect him to turn it around.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:53 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Coric is applying the very simple plan versus federer! Everything on the BH!
Still no attempts to go DTL with it.

Something’s fishy.
No he is not tanking now. That's where all the big points are.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Coric started the match really poorly and I thought Fed would just cruise, but as the set progressed, it was Coric who slowly improved.  He is missing much less than early on.  But still, if Fed played well, this should have been a fairly easy set for him.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm

The slow courts have much more to do with the result than Fed's form. The spin prevents Fed from really inject pace in his BH!

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm

Fed being slapped left and right, wake the fuck up man, wtf is this, move ittttttt

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm

...PLus Coric has all the luck with lots of his shots painting the lines .

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 pm

He is kicking Fed in the nuts, no spins, no painting, Fed asleep.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 pm

BH DTL...at laaaast!


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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Koening mentioning the early start as a possible reason for not having Federer hit form.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by Jahu on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Fed will win this, but closely. Coric to choke soon.

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Re: Indian Wells

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Tenez wrote:Koening mentioning the early start as a possible reason for not having Federer hit form.

To me he looks miffed about something.

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Re: Indian Wells

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