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Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Daniel on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm

And that Tsonga was a shadow of his best form, too.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm

mcekovic wrote:
He lost quite a few close matches he should have won:

Delray Beach 2018 SF to  Francis Tiafoe: 7-5 6-4
AO 2018 R64 to Jo Wilfried Tsonga: 3-6 6-3 1-6 7-6(4) 7-5 (Shapovalov won 51.1% points)
Brisbane 2018 R32 to Kyle Edmund: 6-7(5) 7-6(4) 6-4
Antwerp 2017 R32 to Ernesto Escobedo: 7-6(5) 6-4
USO 2017 R16 to Pablo Careno Busta: 7-6(2) 7-6(4) 7-6(3)

He is not a classical head-case, that is chocking at important points, he just seems does not have that killer instinct to win close matches, even when he does not play the best. One need this to be true champion.

I know what you mean and I agree.
He is almost too nice and pure, a happy kind of soul. Same as Pouille.

He is not sly and crafty like Federer who doesn’t suffer any fools gladly.

Maybe he’ll change and get that “grr” instinct in a few years and become ruthless on the court.

But a lot of those losses was just lack of experience.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by gallery play on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:53 pm

Tenez wrote:
mcekovic wrote:Also, players like McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Agassi have less them 10 GS.
Are you saying you now see a player of even their caliber? I don't Sad

What I see is next Murray, Wawrinka, Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Ferrero, Moya...

All those guys would struggle to get through the first rounds of slams in today's era. So speculating on how good they would have been had they trained and played in today's era is not going to make a tangible comparison.

All those guys distinguished themselves before they turned 20, so Shapo needs to do that too, era talk is not relevant. What's your point anyway? Is Shapo so good he'll win 10+ or not,  because today is tougher for youngsters? It's not clear to me.

I think mcekovic summed it up quite right: Shapo must hurry up making a mark before you can call him a potential 10+ slam winner. Federer's breakthrough took a while too, but honestly: Shapo is no Federer.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:05 am

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
mcekovic wrote:Also, players like McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Agassi have less them 10 GS.
Are you saying you now see a player of even their caliber? I don't Sad

What I see is next Murray, Wawrinka, Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Ferrero, Moya...

All those guys would struggle to get through the first rounds of slams in today's era. So speculating on how good they would have been had they trained and played in today's era is not going to make a tangible comparison.

All those guys distinguished themselves before they turned 20, so Shapo needs to do that too, era talk is not relevant. What's your point anyway? Is Shapo so good he'll win 10+ or not,  because today is tougher for youngsters? It's not clear to me.
On the contrary, era talk is extremely relevant. Competition has constantly increased and wining has constantly got tougher. If you ignore that then it means you regard Renshaw as great as Pete Sampras. Though those are two extreme cases it helps in the reasoning. Being a slam champion at 18 in the 70s is not the same as being one nowadays.

I think mcekovic summed it up quite right: Shapo must hurry up making a mark before you can call him a potential 10+ slam winner. Federer's breakthrough took a while too, but honestly: Shapo is no Federer.
I don;t think one needs to rush it nowadays. If you take Djoko's case for instance, chances are he would not have won a slam before 23 or 24 had Federer not had that Mono in 2008 and yet would still be a 10+ slam champion. The very reason it took Djoko quite a few years to become a slam wining machine is that teh game had become even more professional than at Rafa's time as this one contributed immensely in raising the physical bar for everybody, plus Fed being a one off winning everything else. yet Djoko coudl have won more slams even had he not messed up so many opps.

So no Shapo has not got to win something soon to belong to the 10+ slam club. He might never achieve it cause there are too many factors to consider but he certainly has the potential.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Daniel on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:38 am

Yes, this wonderfully strong era... of... no clay court specialists - a 30+ year old dominating clay... and a 36 year old N1.  No one stepping up.  Two of the top players injured.  Generation Never.

This is the weakest transitional phase there has ever been, Tenez.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:38 am

This is a very strong era in terms of tennis skill, just that injuries have caught up with a considerable group at the top.


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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by gallery play on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:51 am

On the contrary, era talk is extremely relevant. Competition has constantly increased and wining has constantly got tougher.
Ok, in that case you might as well say: no one's going to win 10+ anymore

The very reason it took Djoko quite a few years to become a slam wining machine is that teh game had become even more professional
Not sure about that..didn't Todd Martin messed up his game?

So no Shapo has not got to win something soon to belong to the 10+ slam club. He might never achieve it cause there are too many factors to consider but he certainly has the potential.
You know as a football player the crucial age is from 10 to 12. If you haven't convinced clubs by then, you're out. And there's no coming back.
Those clubs know what they're doing, there's a lot money involved.

Anyway, i want to see more of Shapo before i make my judgement.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:28 am

gallery play wrote:
On the contrary, era talk is extremely relevant. Competition has constantly increased and wining has constantly got tougher.
Ok, in that case you might as well say: no one's going to win 10+ anymore

The very reason it took Djoko quite a few years to become a slam wining machine is that teh game had become even more professional
Not sure about that..didn't Todd Martin messed up his game?

So no Shapo has not got to win something soon to belong to the 10+ slam club. He might never achieve it cause there are too many factors to consider but he certainly has the potential.
You know as a football player the crucial age is from 10 to 12. If you haven't convinced clubs by then, you're out. And there's no coming back.
Those clubs know what they're doing, there's a lot money involved.

Anyway, i want to see more of Shapo before i make my judgement.
He did!
2010 was Nole’s annus horribilis.

Todd Martin tried to transform Nole into Sampras and ruined his serve completely.

He lost to Kholi in RG and Berd in Wimbledon SF...he must have really developed his groundstrokes that year as he had virtually no serve.

The year before that he switched from Wilson to Head...it took him ages to adjust, so that's where he lost two crucial years. And was never the same player with HEAD.

He said he was so frustrated he wanted to quit the sport.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:34 am

gallery play wrote:
On the contrary, era talk is extremely relevant. Competition has constantly increased and wining has constantly got tougher.
Ok, in that case you might as well say: no one's going to win 10+ anymore
In the same way as you can be your club champion, it's going to be harder to be your city champion, even harder to be national champion, world champion....It is for the same reasons I don't think golf has reached that competitive level yet. Tennis at a professional level has only had increasing pools of players since it turned pro. Now you even have Asian players stepping in. But that's not the only factor making tennis tougher. Like everything there is a whole technique and science behind it, therefore the learning process is longer, those at the top making millions have lots of money to make it harder. Now they have teams working for them. Did Borg and Pete have teams behind them? So though there will always be a winner, that winner will have to equip himself with much more than "talent". Those guys Mcekovic mentions could turn up with their talent and win slams....now you cannot...unfortunately. There is much more to it. It's this "much more" that makes me question whether those guys would have been successful nowadays. Can you imagine Pete arriving with his Serve and volley and win a slam at 20 now?
Not sure about that..didn't Todd Martin messed up his game?
Laugh yeah maybe but 1, it shows Djoko still was finding solutions to get there, and 2, we know why he suddenly became unbeatable in 2011....cause he suddenly "could fly" as he was saying. He became that amazingling lean and fast body at nearly 24, finally able to last the distance. And that gave him a huge mental boost!....3 whole years after his first slam.

You know as a football player the crucial age is from 10 to 12. If you haven't convinced clubs by then, you're out. And there's no coming back.
Those clubs know what they're doing, there's a lot money involved.
My wife is nursery school teacher, she can tell so much about children of 4 and 5. Who is determined, focus, artist, etc...So yeah I am not surprised. MOst tennis pro are selected earlier. Wasn't Sharapova picked up by Martina at teh age of 5? Noah was picked up by Arthur Ash very early too.

Anyway, i want to see more of Shapo before i make my judgement.
He is a very impressive player now. To be that good knowing how tough it is to play that kind of game and be successful. It's not like he has a super body making the difference, a la nadal, who had a simple mission, running after the ball and hit it back as hard and spinny as possible...against a field who had never faced such spiny balls cause the field had not played with those new strings much.

There are circumstances that make young players succeed early....Shapo generation hasn't got much help in that regard.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:43 am

Tenez wrote:
Not sure about that..didn't Todd Martin messed up his game?
Laugh yeah maybe but 1, it shows Djoko still was finding solutions to get there, and 2, we know why he suddenly became unbeatable in 2011....cause he suddenly "could fly" as he was saying. He became that amazingling lean and fast body at nearly 24, finally able to last the distance. And that gave him a huge mental boost!....3 whole years after his first slam.

All players look for solutions during their whole careers, that’s the name of the game: evolution.

Before he won his first slam in AO08 at 19 (even if Fed was really affected by mono) the year/slam before in USO’07, he lost a very close match to a fit formidable Fed in the final...three TBs from memory.

That was his first slam final, so def. plenty of inexperience and emotions, not to mention De Niro & Sharapova watching him from the box.

He was a different player with Wilson, and I wish he never changed to Head...he did it for the $$$, in order to buy the licence for a 250 tournament, in order to bring first ever tournament to Serbia.

So that was a bit heroic and really nice from him.

It’s not all black and white.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 am

Anyway, for Shapo’s own confidence he should start winning a bit more this year, next year at the latest.

He is not far.

Time to show the depth of that talent.

Otherwise, too many early scars may do damage in the long run.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by legendkillar on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:10 pm

Very difficult to call. I say this because if you take into account that only 3 male players in the pro era have won 10+ Slams in the same decade, makes the out look difficult. 

I see the post Federafovic era containing 4-5 Slam winners rather than an absolute dominant force and I see that being the pattern for the upcoming decade/s.

I see the current crop of youngsters being more streaky than consistently winning titles in high proportions for years on end.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:52 pm

I know WTA is a bit of a joke compared to ATP,  but if we remember Ostapenko’s win last RG, we can see it's still possoble to be young and win.

You just have to have a BIG heart and champion’s belief.

She literally grabbed that trophy by the scruff of its neck, I loved it!

Unlike her, all ATP “youngsters”carry on like babies...no men among them.

I can understand them losing to Federer and maybe Nadal last year...but it’s not like they all made it to slam SF or final...

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by barrystar on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 pm

Who knows, but they could do a lot worse than watch this.


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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by luvsports! on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:32 am


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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:51 pm

hehe..I understand now why Moya said Pete was a much better player than Federer!

A simple and nice youngster.

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Daniel on Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 pm

Tenez wrote:hehe..I understand now why Moya said Pete was a much better player than Federer!

A simple and nice youngster.

I bet you think Sampras v Fed would be Federer 8-0 at Wimb?

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:55 pm

And why should I think otherwise?

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Re: Who Will Be The Next 10+ slams champion?

Post by Daniel on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:55 pm

Tenez wrote:And why should I think otherwise?

Anyone with any sense would realize that if Djokovic can beat Fed, the second best grass player of all time could. If Sergiy Stakhovsky can beat Fed, then the second best grass player of all time could. It really isn't taxing on the synapases to realize this. 


You're a fanboy.  Of the very worst kind. Not that I ever expect you to change.

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