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#1 ranking

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:That’s Nadal for you....can’t go down gracefully but has to drag Murray and Djokovic with him.

For Murray he may be right, as Murray’s had 3 surgeries so far, but no way is Djokovic spent physically like the other two.

On the one hand, Nadal is right that Federer is lucky  because of the talent he’s been given, but on the other Nadal was greedy and like Salieri -  jealous: he stopped at nothing in order  to destroy that talent and in the process destroyed his body.

 My heart is not bleeding.
Come on, give the guy a break! Can't believe I'd ever stick up for Nadal but what he said there makes a lot of sense.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:17 pm

bogbrush wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:That’s Nadal for you....can’t go down gracefully but has to drag Murray and Djokovic with him.

For Murray he may be right, as Murray’s had 3 surgeries so far, but no way is Djokovic spent physically like the other two.

On the one hand, Nadal is right that Federer is lucky  because of the talent he’s been given, but on the other Nadal was greedy and like Salieri -  jealous: he stopped at nothing in order  to destroy that talent and in the process destroyed his body.

 My heart is not bleeding.
Come on, give the guy a break! Can't believe I'd ever stick up for Nadal but what he said there makes a lot of sense.
I am happy for you all to give Nadal a break.

I can’t. There is something about him I can’t stand organically.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Daniel on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:48 am

^NITB... Perhaps it's this:

Whenever I read something Nadal has said, it nearly always has an arrogance or double meaning contained within it. It's not my own bias doing it, either, because it's easy to spot, and it's relentless. 

So, it's hard for me to ever give him a break. 

Case in point:
If he [Federer] finishes his career as a rose, it’s because he has an extraordinary body

As I mentioned before, this is an excuse.  It's not a compliment.  It is not 
"He manages his schedule better."
"He has an attacking game."
"He has a lot of variety and shortens points, like at the net, whereas we play longer defensive points."

No.  It's none of that.  It's just an excuse.  What he is saying is "Federer got lucky!" with an added hint of jealousy "as a rose".


And Nadal, Toni, wherever you are out there - Fuck you too!




We've had

I was injured (x10000)
I was X, but now is not the time to talk of that.
He kept moving during the point.
There are too many hard court tournaments.
The ranking system should be rolling 2 years.
If you use blue clay again, I am boycotting the tournament.
If it wasn't for those pesky kids  these injuries I would be beating Federer's slam total!
I received on-court coaching (and I can even state that in my autobiography knowing nothing will be done haw haw haw).
Serve and volley isn't proper tennis (because I am useless at it and win most of my points through gutless defence).

He's a walking verbal diarrhoea factory.  Especially when he loses.  Every time he isn't able to maintain the PR mask he shoves on.  I want him to retire as soon as possible. And I don't care why or how. I am going to dance a jig when he's out of the game.  Star  Dance until my knees are as bad as his.

I think too many tennis fans think Nadal likes Federer.  He doesn't.  To be frank, what I sense in Nadal is a loathing for Federer. It's self evident that Nadal is a narcissistic arsehole, who'll do anything to win, but you get a real feeling from some of what he says that there is a deep rooted envy there as well. I don't know why more people can't see it. I get a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that it kills him to see Federer's grace, style, and records - That Nadal knows Federer is the best. There's nothing worse for a narcissist than to be continually outshone and talked about as second best to their main rival, while they are picking up all the plaudits from fellow pros - adding insult to injury - in the sportsmanship awards and so on.  Wah

Nadal is full of fake humility and fake praise. His only saving grace is having sycophantic pundits/media surrounding him, who seldom call him out on any of it - and a governing body that, as usual, places money above all else. This cretinous moron and his gangster uncle have gotten away with murder. They've forced umpires out, muscled their way into favourable time slots, abused the time rule at every step of the way, engaged in illegal on-court coaching, and generally brought the game into complete disrepute.  It could only be worse if, at some point, Nadal really was found guilty of doping.  Then the circle would be complete, wouldn't it? But he's done enough in my book that any true fan of this game should be glad to see the back end of the arse scratching, fist pumping, excuse making, grunting, scowling, unsportsmanlike twat. 

Salud!  Cheers

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by luvsports! on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:21 am

Scent of a Woman! Love it!  Laugh

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:51 am

bogbrush wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:That’s Nadal for you....can’t go down gracefully but has to drag Murray and Djokovic with him.

For Murray he may be right, as Murray’s had 3 surgeries so far, but no way is Djokovic spent physically like the other two.

On the one hand, Nadal is right that Federer is lucky  because of the talent he’s been given, but on the other Nadal was greedy and like Salieri -  jealous: he stopped at nothing in order  to destroy that talent and in the process destroyed his body.

 My heart is not bleeding.
Come on, give the guy a break! Can't believe I'd ever stick up for Nadal but what he said there makes a lot of sense.

Quite - and in a second language that he's not too great at.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:13 am

Daniel wrote:^NITB... Perhaps it's this:

Whenever I read something Nadal has said, it nearly always has an arrogance or double meaning contained within it. It's not my own bias doing it, either, because it's easy to spot, and it's relentless. 

So, it's hard for me to ever give him a break. 

Case in point:
If he [Federer] finishes his career as a rose, it’s because he has an extraordinary body

As I mentioned before, this is an excuse.  It's not a compliment.  It is not 
"He manages his schedule better."
"He has an attacking game."
"He has a lot of variety and shortens points, like at the net, whereas we play longer defensive points."

No.  It's none of that.  It's just an excuse.  What he is saying is "Federer got lucky!" with an added hint of jealousy "as a rose".


And Nadal, Toni, wherever you are out there - Fuck you too!




We've had

I was injured (x10000)
I was X, but now is not the time to talk of that.
He kept moving during the point.
There are too many hard court tournaments.
The ranking system should be rolling 2 years.
If you use blue clay again, I am boycotting the tournament.
If it wasn't for those pesky kids  these injuries I would be beating Federer's slam total!
I received on-court coaching (and I can even state that in my autobiography knowing nothing will be done haw haw haw).
Serve and volley isn't proper tennis (because I am useless at it and win most of my points through gutless defence).

He's a walking verbal diarrhoea factory.  Especially when he loses.  Every time he isn't able to maintain the PR mask he shoves on.  I want him to retire as soon as possible. And I don't care why or how. I am going to dance a jig when he's out of the game.  Star  Dance until my knees are as bad as his.

I think too many tennis fans think Nadal likes Federer.  He doesn't.  To be frank, what I sense in Nadal is a loathing for Federer. It's self evident that Nadal is a narcissistic arsehole, who'll do anything to win, but you get a real feeling from some of what he says that there is a deep rooted envy there as well. I don't know why more people can't see it. I get a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that it kills him to see Federer's grace, style, and records - That Nadal knows Federer is the best. There's nothing worse for a narcissist than to be continually outshone and talked about as second best to their main rival, while they are picking up all the plaudits from fellow pros - adding insult to injury - in the sportsmanship awards and so on.  Wah

Nadal is full of fake humility and fake praise. His only saving grace is having sycophantic pundits/media surrounding him, who seldom call him out on any of it - and a governing body that, as usual, places money above all else. This cretinous moron and his gangster uncle have gotten away with murder. They've forced umpires out, muscled their way into favourable time slots, abused the time rule at every step of the way, engaged in illegal on-court coaching, and generally brought the game into complete disrepute.  It could only be worse if, at some point, Nadal really was found guilty of doping.  Then the circle would be complete, wouldn't it? But he's done enough in my book that any true fan of this game should be glad to see the back end of the arse scratching, fist pumping, excuse making, grunting, scowling, unsportsmanlike twat. 

Salud!  Cheers

Stg like that!

Laugh Laugh Laugh

Applause Cheers Bubbly

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:21 am

barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:That’s Nadal for you....can’t go down gracefully but has to drag Murray and Djokovic with him.

For Murray he may be right, as Murray’s had 3 surgeries so far, but no way is Djokovic spent physically like the other two.

On the one hand, Nadal is right that Federer is lucky  because of the talent he’s been given, but on the other Nadal was greedy and like Salieri -  jealous: he stopped at nothing in order  to destroy that talent and in the process destroyed his body.

 My heart is not bleeding.
Come on, give the guy a break! Can't believe I'd ever stick up for Nadal but what he said there makes a lot of sense.

Quite - and in a second language that he's not too great at.

Ok, let me say something nice, too. smiley

Nadal has been a great dark background that has allowed Federer to shine as brightly as possible.
Like a night sky with stars in it.

Without Nadal, we would have never had some epic matches a la AO ‘12 & ‘17 final.

Watching Nadal get beaten is chatarsis! Phenomenal.

That’s why all those long five set matches are priceless. Beating  Nadal in straight sets is just not the same.  monster

His fans, however hypersensitive are a source of great entertainment.
I am almost envious of their bliss.

I like Nadal’s imperfect English because it can be so funny.

Nadal himself is really funny, too. He is absolutely a character in his own right. (remember how he sat through a press conference in cramp pain and disappeared under a table?)

I found that unbeliavably quirky and fascinating...how someone could do it, rather than stand up, stretch his leg, excuse himself or stg...

I think it’s this almost infantile, childlike streak in Nadal that Federer likes.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:47 am

noleisthebest wrote:


I think it’s this almost infantile, childlike streak in Nadal that Federer likes.

On the whole, I think that there's too much speculation about what they really think about one another based on over-elaborate parsing of what they say in press conferences when they may still be infused with the heat of battle but are at the same time trying to watch what they say.  We do have some clearer actions and statements to go on (their mutual exhibitions, Fed going to the opening of the academy and giving (or lending) one of his Wimbledon 08 jerseys for a display, there was a time when they each set out their different views on how the Tour should be arranged when they had a disagreement on the player's council and Nadal was obviously frustrated).  It seems clear that however much they really like one another, however much they truly manage to put their burning competitiveness to one side, they understand that the public's perception of each of them is very often through their rivalry.  They obviously accept the entanglement of their career stories and want to put on at least an outward show of mutual respect, which you have to accept they do well.

Despite my caution about indulging in more personal speculation, there may well be something in what nitb says above - they are both capable of being a bit dorky and goofy - it's possible that helps make a connection.

Of all the great rivals, the closest now to being real friends look to be Borg & McEnroe - time will tell if Fedal manage something similar.  If forced to bet now, I'd bet on 'no', but we'll see.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:02 pm

barrystar wrote:
On the whole, I think that there's too much speculation about what they really think about one another based on over-elaborate parsing of what they say in press conferences when they may still be infused with the heat of battle but are at the same time trying to watch what they say. 
For me, the whole, deepest truth is what we see on the court.
Everything else is propaganda. Winking

barrystar wrote:
We do have some clearer actions and statements to go on (their mutual exhibitions, Fed going to the opening of the academy and giving (or lending) one of his Wimbledon 08 jerseys for a display, there was a time when they each set out their different views on how the Tour should be arranged when they had a disagreement on the player's council and Nadal was obviously frustrated).
Academy, charities and all that is all about $$$, of course. You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours kind of thing.

Having said that, that kind of “relationship” never took of between Nole and Fed.
There is a “healthy”dislike between them.

Nole’s “ rough” parents, Fed’s early “high-horsedness” probably were where it all came from..now it’s all mellowed but their relationship never got beyond mutual “champion” respect at best.

Which is a big thing...however cliche it sounds.

At the end of the day, they have shared and been through things only they  can talk about.
And those “things”, mountaintops and valleys are who they have become now.

A bit like us here on OFT! Big Grin

barrystar wrote:

  It seems clear that however much they really like one another, however much they truly manage to put their burning competitiveness to one side, they understand that the public's perception of each of them is very often through their rivalry.  They obviously accept the entanglement of their career stories and want to put on at least an outward show of mutual respect, which you have to accept they do well.
I like that in a way..it’s a bit like a “well-played” net handshake...always good to see, esp theor fierce battle in court wjere they really pour out their all.
barrystar wrote:
Despite my caution about indulging in more personal speculation, there may well be something in what nitb says above - they are both capable of being a bit dorky and goofy - it's possible that helps make a connection.

Of all the great rivals, the closest now to being real friends look to be Borg & McEnroe - time will tell if Fedal manage something similar.  If forced to bet now, I'd bet on 'no', but we'll see.

I suppose it’s all like life...impossible to isolate one from the other.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by gallery play on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:25 pm

It's always a great pleasure to see Nadal losing. But i'm aware that he's the guy i love to hate. A bit like Tiger Woods. It drove me nuts when he holed another 15 feet put to get in the playoff, which he automatically would win of course. And he did that all the time.  But now he's gone, it's a bore. 
Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:30 pm

gallery play wrote:It's always a great pleasure to see Nadal losing. But i'm aware that he's the guy i love to hate. A bit like Tiger Woods. It drove me nuts when he holed another 15 feet put to get in the playoff, which he automatically would win of course. And he did that all the time.  But now he's gone, it's a bore. 
Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking
Don’t know much about golf, to me in a way it was Federer who made Nadal.

It’s not difficult to imagine tour without Nadal but without Fed?

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:54 pm

gallery play wrote:....

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

That's my feeling too but I am a bit more sinister. I want him to be found out for his amazing fitness.

And this is the interesting point about the Federer / Nadal relationship. What does Federer think about Nadal's fitness? Fed very proudly shows his thin arms every time he is being asked about his fitness. Surely he and his camp have some suspicion about the RR fitness. That's teh only bit I will want to read from him once he retires..but it is unlikely he will ever say a word about it.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by gallery play on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
gallery play wrote:It's always a great pleasure to see Nadal losing. But i'm aware that he's the guy i love to hate. A bit like Tiger Woods. It drove me nuts when he holed another 15 feet put to get in the playoff, which he automatically would win of course. And he did that all the time.  But now he's gone, it's a bore. 
Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking
Don’t know much about golf, to me in a way it was Federer who made Nadal.

It’s not difficult to imagine tour without Nadal but without Fed?
True, although the clay season will look like a steerless car

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by gallery play on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:04 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:....

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

That's my feeling too but I am a bit more sinister. I want him to be found out for his amazing fitness.

And this is the interesting point about the Federer / Nadal relationship. What does Federer think about Nadal's fitness? Fed very proudly shows his thin arms every time he is being asked about his fitness. Surely he and his camp have some suspicion about the RR fitness. That's teh only bit I will want to read from him once he retires..but it is unlikely he will ever say a word about it.
The thing is Federer knows NAdal better off court then we do. He had the opportunity to look him deeply in the eyes, in a private setting. Maybe Fed has his doubts but he doesn't want to spend energy on it and might be thinking: "ah well whatever, i believe him".
That's his strength anyway, he has the belief it's always in his racquet, regardless what the others do

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:10 pm

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:....

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

That's my feeling too but I am a bit more sinister. I want him to be found out for his amazing fitness.

And this is the interesting point about the Federer / Nadal relationship. What does Federer think about Nadal's fitness? Fed very proudly shows his thin arms every time he is being asked about his fitness. Surely he and his camp have some suspicion about the RR fitness. That's teh only bit I will want to read from him once he retires..but it is unlikely he will ever say a word about it.
The thing is Federer knows NAdal better off court then we do. He had the opportunity to look him deeply in the eyes, in a private setting. Maybe Fed has his doubts but he doesn't want to spend energy on it and might be thinking: "ah well whatever, i believe him".
That's his strength anyway, he has the belief it's always in his racquet, regardless what the others do
So true.
And good job he finally changed that very racquet in the nick of time!!!

You could not script how fine a line his win in AO17 was.

Without it, he will certainly have had some regrets, stubborn man that he is.
How deep faith in his talent is!

This way, his victory is completely pure.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:13 pm

gallery play wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
gallery play wrote:It's always a great pleasure to see Nadal losing. But i'm aware that he's the guy i love to hate. A bit like Tiger Woods. It drove me nuts when he holed another 15 feet put to get in the playoff, which he automatically would win of course. And he did that all the time.  But now he's gone, it's a bore. 
Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking
Don’t know much about golf, to me in a way it was Federer who made Nadal.

It’s not difficult to imagine tour without Nadal but without Fed?
True, although the clay season will look like a steerless car

Nadal certainly wrote a big chapter on clay.
Not my favourite read, though, hehe.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:15 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:....

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

That's my feeling too but I am a bit more sinister. I want him to be found out for his amazing fitness.

And this is the interesting point about the Federer / Nadal relationship. What does Federer think about Nadal's fitness? Fed very proudly shows his thin arms every time he is being asked about his fitness. Surely he and his camp have some suspicion about the RR fitness. That's teh only bit I will want to read from him once he retires..but it is unlikely he will ever say a word about it.
I doubt Nadal will ever be exposed.
His back is stronger than his left bicep!

Main thing he was beaten on court.

Both physically (AO12) and tennis-wise (AO17).

I am amazed how he can still keep motivated.



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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Emancipator on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:56 pm

If Nadal is suspect for PEDS then Federer is even more so. What he is doing at this age is virtually unheard of in any athletic sport. 

Daniel, it’s still not too late to get some help. I fear we may hear about you in the news one day. 

ghost

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:57 pm

gallery play wrote:...That's his strength anyway, he has the belief it's always in his racquet, regardless what the others do
he must have had a vindicated feeling for a few years though with such a poor H2H.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:04 pm

Emancipator wrote:If Nadal is suspect for PEDS then Federer is even more so. What he is doing at this age is virtually unheard of in any athletic sport. 

Daniel, it’s still not too late to get some help. I fear we may hear about you in the news one day. 

ghost

Emancipator
We never know but I don;t see much evidence for it.

Unlike The RRs he doesn't get his wins by lengthening the rallies. he does everything he can to shorten them. That is how to sort the dopers from clean ones.

We know what makes him more successful than in the past, it's having easier power from his racquet and cutting his tournaments to a minimum number.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:05 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:....

Maybe i just want Raf around to see him lose  Winking

That's my feeling too but I am a bit more sinister. I want him to be found out for his amazing fitness.

And this is the interesting point about the Federer / Nadal relationship. What does Federer think about Nadal's fitness? Fed very proudly shows his thin arms every time he is being asked about his fitness. Surely he and his camp have some suspicion about the RR fitness. That's teh only bit I will want to read from him once he retires..but it is unlikely he will ever say a word about it.

I've noticed he talks more and more about his spindly left arm, and he never looks that impressive with his shirt off either.  I think that's part jokey and part a bit of game-playing.  Like you I've often wondered if they have suspicions, and asked myself whether his behaviour towards Nadal is consistent with having suspicions.  Could Fed really make the show he has done for so long now of mutual respect, and doing exhibitions and so-on if he thought the man who most often thwarts him is cheating?  I find that difficult to accept.  I have also sometimes thought that the most obvious response to might be to try a bit of that too...

I just really hope that they are both clean - I'd almost rather not know if either of them (or Djoko/Murray/Stan) has cheated.  As between Fedal, Nadal has the more likely profile of a doper, but that of a 36-yr-old who has returned from injury to dominate a very physical sport is a profile of someone who could benefit and be tempted.

Can you imagine what it would do for the credibility of pro sport generally if Federer were nailed for a PED?  It's close to unimaginable.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:16 pm

barrystar wrote:....Could Fed really make the show he has done for so long now of mutual respect, and doing exhibitions and so-on if he thought the man who most often thwarts him is cheating?  I find that difficult to accept.
I think there is a 3rd more likely approach from Federer. Doping did not start with the current players. It has always been rampant in professional sports. So Fed is probably saying to himself, that's the name of the game and I can't do anything about it (what GP was saying) and just hope the anti-doping agencies are doing their best. So he would not pick on Nadal, or anyone else unless they got busted. I however felt he was annoyed to see Djoko who kept having breathing problems turn into this tireless machine. NITB is right when she says he was never as forgiveful with Djoko as with Nadal or Murray.

Can you imagine what it would do for the credibility of pro sport generally if Federer were nailed for a PED?  It's close to unimaginable.
yes but personally I would not mind as much cause drugs don;t give you talent. So at one stage I was even hoping he'd dope instead of getting lessons systematically by nadal. I wanted an even field.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:20 pm

I think the Fed/Djoko 'thing' started when Fed was really riled by what he thought were tactical MTO's by a young Djoko, particularly vs. Stan during an infamous DC singles match in 2006.  He said a few pretty harsh things about Djoko and made it obvious that he relished beating Djoko after that.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:32 pm

barrystar wrote:I think the Fed/Djoko 'thing' started when Fed was really riled by what he thought were tactical MTO's by a young Djoko, particularly vs. Stan during an infamous DC singles match in 2006.  He said a few pretty harsh things about Djoko and made it obvious that he relished beating Djoko after that.
I think so, too.
That’s what’s annoyed me about Fed.
That he got so riled about Nole’s rule bending back in 2006 and at the same time kept chummy with Nadal despite Nadal’s  fragrant rule breaking, time between the points.

Not that I approve of MTOs/retirements...they are a sign of weakness...but let’s call spade a spade here!

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
barrystar wrote:I think the Fed/Djoko 'thing' started when Fed was really riled by what he thought were tactical MTO's by a young Djoko, particularly vs. Stan during an infamous DC singles match in 2006.  He said a few pretty harsh things about Djoko and made it obvious that he relished beating Djoko after that.
I think so, too.
That’s what’s annoyed me about Fed.
That he got so riled about Nole’s rule bending back in 2006 and at the same time kept chummy with Nadal despite Nadal’s  fragrant rule breaking, time between the points.

Not that I approve of MTOs/retirements...they are a sign of weakness...but let’s call spade a spade here!

I think watching Djoko behave one minute like he'd been poleaxed and then the next running around like a maniac rubbed it in a fair bit more than Nadal's gurning away between points.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:18 pm

barrystar wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
barrystar wrote:I think the Fed/Djoko 'thing' started when Fed was really riled by what he thought were tactical MTO's by a young Djoko, particularly vs. Stan during an infamous DC singles match in 2006.  He said a few pretty harsh things about Djoko and made it obvious that he relished beating Djoko after that.
I think so, too.
That’s what’s annoyed me about Fed.
That he got so riled about Nole’s rule bending back in 2006 and at the same time kept chummy with Nadal despite Nadal’s  fragrant rule breaking, time between the points.

Not that I approve of MTOs/retirements...they are a sign of weakness...but let’s call spade a spade here!

I think watching Djoko behave one minute like he'd been poleaxed and then the next running around like a maniac rubbed it in a fair bit more than Nadal's gurning away between points.
Now that you put it like that I can see the point, it's more "in your face", acute...makes sense...it would certainly drive me mad!

But Nadal and his antics...much more for sure.
Though there is always a possibility Fed was not aware of any of it during matches, focused on his game...which is still hard to imagine!

It doesn't matter so much any more...with all the water that's gone under the bridge.

He is human. Winking

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by summerblues on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:15 am

gallery play wrote:Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.
I do not think anyone - not even Fed - has remotely the same impact on the popularity of tennis as Tiger had on golf.  Tiger was golf for a number of years.  When Fed came along, you could see here in the US that Nike was trying to sell him here similarly as they were selling Tiger hoping for a big boost in interest.  But it never came - most likely because he is not American but maybe for other reasons too.  In tennis, I believe the interest (in the US at least) only went up after Fed found his kryptonite in Rafa.  Even so, tennis is nowhere near as popular in the US as it used to be in the 1980s or 1990s.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by gallery play on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:14 pm

summerblues wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.
I do not think anyone - not even Fed - has remotely the same impact on the popularity of tennis as Tiger had on golf.  Tiger was golf for a number of years.  When Fed came along, you could see here in the US that Nike was trying to sell him here similarly as they were selling Tiger hoping for a big boost in interest.  But it never came - most likely because he is not American but maybe for other reasons too.  In tennis, I believe the interest (in the US at least) only went up after Fed found his kryptonite in Rafa.  Even so, tennis is nowhere near as popular in the US as it used to be in the 1980s or 1990s.
Because he's not American period
If Federer was an American, he would have been considered at least as great as M. Jordan.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:22 pm

Americans are funny with their sports.

Basketball is ok, but you can't compare it to tennis.

Jordan was the goat of basketball like  Maradona in football, each ultimate talent/genius in their field, so in a way not "fair" and also no need to compare...until Federer came along...partly because of the nature of tennis and how tough it is, partly because of the quality of his grace, and how easy he makes it look.

Don't know how it works in golf.
it looks static to me.

Tbh, I never even realised golf was that popular until Woods turned up.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:33 pm

gallery play wrote:
summerblues wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.
I do not think anyone - not even Fed - has remotely the same impact on the popularity of tennis as Tiger had on golf.  Tiger was golf for a number of years.  When Fed came along, you could see here in the US that Nike was trying to sell him here similarly as they were selling Tiger hoping for a big boost in interest.  But it never came - most likely because he is not American but maybe for other reasons too.  In tennis, I believe the interest (in the US at least) only went up after Fed found his kryptonite in Rafa.  Even so, tennis is nowhere near as popular in the US as it used to be in the 1980s or 1990s.
Because he's not American period
If Federer was an American, he would have been considered at least as great as M. Jordan.
I agree. Though one reason tennis is less popular in the US is that it has not got the same marketing value. Advertising to Golf fans mean advertising to a wealthy, big spender audience, including all those negotiating contracts on the golf course. And that in the US matters a lot. Tennis has less of a wealthy connotation.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by bogbrush on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:34 pm

People are all the same, in Britain we have occasionally decided that Curling, or sliding down ice on a tea tray, or ice dancing were the biggest things in sport.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Daniel on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:59 pm

Tennis isn't as popular in America as golf or baseball or basketball - that's why. Not close.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:12 am

Emancipator wrote:If Nadal is suspect for PEDS then Federer is even more so. What he is doing at this age is virtually unheard of in any athletic sport. 

Daniel, it’s still not too late to get some help. I fear we may hear about you in the news one day. 

ghost

Emancipator
Here is a clip which shows that Federer's game would typically not benefit from steroids or EPO much.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by barrystar on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:23 am

Come on Tenez - of course his game is less dependent on running around than others because of his huge array of shots and hand-eye coordination, but he needs to run around too.  He is well known for extraordinary defence at times - his game would still benefit.


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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:29 am

But the point is over the years he uses his defense much less and has consistently tried to shorten points. Yes on important points he can run but he tries to minimise it. In any case steroids would not be of benefit, epo sure. But when he could for instance beat Rafa in 2011 63 60 indoors without sweating why woudl he take the risk to dope?

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Tenez wrote:

When I see shots like these, I wish there was a drug/medicine that can make Fed's legs fresh.

Also, most of the points are from last year's AO + "double sunshine" where the BH was awesome...he was so rejuvinated after that long break, part of me wants him to have a break of six months every year and come back like that...also, I love that black and white outfit he wore.


If I was a bloke, I'd play in it all the time, even wear it as a pyjama! Big Grin

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:28 pm

barrystar wrote:Come on Tenez - of course his game is less dependent on running around than others because of his huge array of shots and hand-eye coordination, but he needs to run around too.  He is well known for extraordinary defence at times - his game would still benefit.


The truth is, he does everything extraoridinarily...and beautifully!

But he is def not known for extending rallies and trying to win with sweat.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by Daniel on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:27 am

Emancipator wrote:If Nadal is suspect for PEDS then Federer is even more so. 

Oh, go away, you idiot.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:52 am

gallery play wrote:Because he's not American period
If Federer was an American, he would have been considered at least as great as M. Jordan.
Yes, that is a big part of it. But not only that.  Tennis was declining in the US while Americans - Sampras, Agassi and their generation - dominated.  I am not quite sure what the reasons are, but that's how it is.

And Federer is considered a true great here - much like Jordan.  But that is not enough to make people interested in tennis.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by summerblues on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:07 am

barrystar wrote:I'd almost rather not know if either of them (or Djoko/Murray/Stan) has cheated
But only "almost" I hope.

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by gallery play on Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:19 am

summerblues wrote:
gallery play wrote:Because he's not American period
If Federer was an American, he would have been considered at least as great as M. Jordan.
Yes, that is a big part of it. But not only that.  Tennis was declining in the US while Americans - Sampras, Agassi and their generation - dominated.  I am not quite sure what the reasons are, but that's how it is.

And Federer is considered a true great here - much like Jordan.  But that is not enough to make people interested in tennis.
Really? That's something i did not expect, after those years of European domination (Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Wilander).

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by legendkillar on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:00 pm

summerblues wrote:
gallery play wrote:Nadal does not mean to tennis what Woods once did to golf, as he does not have the "oomph" Tiger had. The TV ratings suffer heavily since Tiger's gone, don't think Nadal's absence have the same effect. Not close.
I do not think anyone - not even Fed - has remotely the same impact on the popularity of tennis as Tiger had on golf.  Tiger was golf for a number of years.  When Fed came along, you could see here in the US that Nike was trying to sell him here similarly as they were selling Tiger hoping for a big boost in interest.  But it never came - most likely because he is not American but maybe for other reasons too.  In tennis, I believe the interest (in the US at least) only went up after Fed found his kryptonite in Rafa.  Even so, tennis is nowhere near as popular in the US as it used to be in the 1980s or 1990s.

Have to say I agree. Tiger was golf and his commercial interests outside the sport too was huge. His golf video game for example is on par with Madden NFL video game in terms of revenue. Big big winner for EA Sports. 

I have to ask SB, what the is interest like at College level as I know that's where most of the pro's in recent years have come out of. There was a piece done years ago about declining numbers and wondered if it's still in sharp decline?

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Re: #1 ranking

Post by summerblues on Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:45 am

Lk,. I would not know answer to that. I would not be surprised if it were the case - golf's popularity suffered once Tiger disappeared - but I have no sense how it is specifically in colleges.

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Re: #1 ranking

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