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Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:36 am

The draw is out, both Federer and Nadal playing:

http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2017/352/mds.pdf


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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by naxroy on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:54 pm

nops, Federer isnt

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:58 pm

As I said on the other thread, good call by Fed.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:01 pm

That’s it for Paris, then...another dull and boring tournament to sleep through.


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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by naxroy on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:02 pm

yes, he wants that WTF. and he might well get it

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:47 am

Nadal should play at least 1 match and confirm his YE #1, So likely he will do it even if he drops off after that.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by bogbrush on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:03 am

Sad but wise. This is why he won't play clay next year either - it's not that his game wouldn't hold up on any given day but that he can't afford to be dragged into attritional matches.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by naxroy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:00 am

if I were nadal I wouldnt play paris either

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by bogbrush on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:03 am

He certainly doesn't need to now.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 pm

yeah and Fed might have regretted his decision not to play Paris. All Nadal needed to do was bluffing his form by entering.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:03 am

Nadal has been playing well most of the year. It would have been very unlikely for him to play so poorly that Fed would overtake him.

And potential slam #20 is more important than YE #1 - by a long shot. Yes, it would be nice to be #1 at 36 but when careers get evaluated, it is mostly based on overall achievements, not on their timing. And an extra slam is far superior to an extra few weeks at No 1.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 am

summerblues wrote:Nadal has been playing well most of the year.  It would have been very unlikely for him to play so poorly that Fed would overtake him.

And potential slam #20 is more important than YE #1 - by a long shot.  Yes, it would be nice to be #1 at 36 but when careers get evaluated, it is mostly based on overall achievements, not on their timing.  And an extra slam is far superior to an extra few weeks at No 1.

To me, YE1 and a slam are pretty close, even in this era...because in theory, the achievement showed that you dominated the field in that particular year.

It would have meant a lot to Federer...to be at the top at the end of his career, to show he has mastered another generation of players and gone into the sunset with that feeling.

Especially after the year he has had and the tennis he has played.

In the hearts of tennis fans he will be number one for 2017 as he has conquered both Nadal and the young generation (that match vs Kyrgios, was it Miami or IW?).

As things are, he has got the cake this year, the only bit missing is the cherry on the top.

My personal grief is that it’s Nadal who bagged it instead of him.

And if Fed wins London, that pain will be eased a bit.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by luvsports! on Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:16 am

noleisthebest wrote:
summerblues wrote:Nadal has been playing well most of the year.  It would have been very unlikely for him to play so poorly that Fed would overtake him.

And potential slam #20 is more important than YE #1 - by a long shot.  Yes, it would be nice to be #1 at 36 but when careers get evaluated, it is mostly based on overall achievements, not on their timing.  And an extra slam is far superior to an extra few weeks at No 1.

To me, YE1 and a slam are pretty close, even in this era...because in theory, the achievement showed that you dominated the field in that particular year.

It would have meant a lot to Federer...to be at the top at the end of his career, to show he has mastered another generation of players and gone into the sunset with that feeling.

Especially after the year he has had and the tennis he has played.

In the hearts of tennis fans he will be number one for 2017 as he has conquered both Nadal and the young generation (that match vs Kyrgios, was it Miami or IW?).

As things are, he has got the cake this year, the only bit missing is the cherry on the top.

My personal grief is that it’s Nadal who bagged it instead of him.

And if Fed wins London, that pain will be eased a bit.

You say that but Murray was year end world no1 last year and you were saying that Nole should have been as he won 2 slams. 
Look at the WTA tour. Halep year end no1 without winning a slam.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:14 am

summerblues wrote:Nadal has been playing well most of the year.  It would have been very unlikely for him to play so poorly that Fed would overtake him.
It's never as clear cut with Nadal. He could lose early as it has happened a few times or was very close to (Tokyo v Pouille), especially not knowing how his knee's going.

Just one thing, I wished Fed had waited till Weds to make a decision on Paris. I don't like this easy surrendering.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:07 am

Woudl Nadal have won his yesterday match had Federer entered the draw and added pressure on Nadal?

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by naxroy on Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:35 am

if if if


I think nadal would have won, yes

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:08 pm

Nadal is so scared of Serbian players he gave a w/o to Krajinovic, the King of Challengers...

I suppose Tenez has now gone to the darkest room of his house and screaming into a pillow.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:49 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal is so scared of Serbian players he gave a w/o to Krajinovic, the King of Challengers...

I suppose Tenez has now gone to the darkest room of his house and screaming into a pillow.

Federer is probably doing the same! What a real shame and did not try. In that state, Nadal might not win a match in London.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:58 am

noleisthebest wrote:I suppose Tenez has now gone to the darkest room of his house and screaming into a pillow.
Note that he did not deny it. smiley

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:02 am

Well that is too funny with Nadal just barely being able to play, yet Fed chickened out of chasing him.  Oh well.  I still think that it was the right decision for Fed to skip Paris, though in retrospect it does feel like shame he did not go for it.  On the plus side, this is improving Fed's chances of reclaiming No1 in spring.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by DECIMA on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:33 am

Nadal needs to do the right thing and skip WTF. If he gives his knee a few weeks of rest, that could be good ahead of a few weeks of training before the start of the news year, and then a couple more weeks of training before the Aus Open. Playing WTF could aggravate the knee problem, and even though he could rest the knee in December, it would limit his training ahead of 2018.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by DECIMA on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:33 am

I have WTF tickets, will probably be a crap match now, but Rafa needs to prioritise 2018.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:56 am

DECIMA wrote: I have WTF tickets, will probably be a crap match now, but Rafa needs to prioritise 2018.

For future, it’s better to wait for the draw, then you can choose who you are going to watch...there are always good tickets (and bad) available on the day with viagogo.

You pay a little more but you eliminate the risk of going to all the effort just to see Busta-Thiem, for example.

Anyway, I hope you get to see a good match and have a great time.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by gallery play on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:36 am

I'm amazed y'all still don't see through Nadal. Had Federer played in Paris, Nadal wouldn't have pulled out yet. Of course Nadal has real injuries too, but this time it's one again to put on the long list of convenient injuries, perfectly suiting his agenda.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:45 am

gallery play wrote:I'm amazed y'all still don't see through Nadal. Had Federer played in Paris, Nadal wouldn't have pulled out yet. Of course Nadal has real injuries too, but this time it's one again to put on the long list of convenient injuries, perfectly suiting his agenda.
Well yes Nadal would have tried harder but then it would be a real fight between 2 tired and/or injured athletes, and Federer is the best in that department a he requires less fitness to make a difference.

Nadal bluffed and it worked! he is the better poker player! cause had he not needed to play Paris, he probably would not have entered. Federer should have done the same....though I do not know Fed's physical state. Still he seemed ok in his last match.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:50 am

I still think Federer never planned to play Paris.

So long as he doesn’t come with the statement how happy he is for “Rafa” to be number one...

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by gallery play on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:18 am

Nadal knew he only needed a few wins, so it's logical he wanted those asap. Fed knew even if he won all of it, Nadal still had the best chances. So the best thing Fed could do was to focus on the last big price this year.

Anyway, will they meet again at the AO, there will be much much more prestige at stake, the ranking means nothing compared with that.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:32 am

Yes, it all sounds doable in theory, but his body will be 37 years old soon...and the tennis he plays is so mentally draining and demanding.


I don’t expect him to play IW and Miami next year, he is now shutting down after a week of a 500 event.
He only played thise two back to back because of how well he did at AO...and he missed playing badly.


The more I think about it, no way would he have been able to play both Paris and London.

If we are lucky, Federer will have another successful year in 2018, with a slam or two in the bag.

But his body could seize up at any stage of it...so best is to enjoy him when it allows him to play.
He has realised he can’t take anything for granted any more and wants to play as long as henpossibly can...so let’s be kind and not flog him with our wishes.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by gallery play on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:47 am

noleisthebest wrote:
If we are lucky, Federer will have another successful year in 2018, with a slam or two in the bag.
Personally i think the best he could possibly do is defending his Wimbledon title. 2017 was a miracle year, we shouldn't expect something like that again in 2018.

I'm sure AO will be a lot slower next year. That's how it always goes. Everytime a tournament comes up with a medium fast (not even fast), the following year the sandpaper returns. I don't know why, but it's a trend. So i can't see Federer grinding his way to the final again in Melbourne, let alone winning it.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:54 am

Yes, I'd be happy with just another wimby win...and number 1 one last time in spring, or maybe from the AO if Nadal has an early exit and Fed closes in London. But for that Fed would need to reach the final minimum....quite a tough ask!.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:58 am

In AO it will all be about the war of sponsors, last year old guard Ozzy romantics stole the show and “cheated” with fast conds (similar to RG 2009) and I am so thankful for that!

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:01 am

I must say, seeing Nadal’s clueless, worried face in his matches vs Federer this year is as good as number one if not better! Winking

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:12 am

Can Benneteau win his first tournament at 35?

He failed to do it in ten finals during his career!

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:14 am

noleisthebest wrote:Can Benneteau win his first tournament at 35?

He failed to do it in ten finals during his career!

A proper French player!

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:21 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Can Benneteau win his first tournament at 35?

He failed to do it in ten finals during his career!

A proper French player!

Laugh

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by gallery play on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:38 am

noleisthebest wrote:I must say, seeing Nadal’s clueless, worried face in his matches vs Federer this year is as good as number one if not better! Winking
Yeah! NAdal going for Fed's FH as the better option to stay in the rally, is the best joke ever in tennis.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Daniel on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:29 pm

gallery play wrote:I'm amazed y'all still don't see through Nadal. Had Federer played in Paris, Nadal wouldn't have pulled out yet. Of course Nadal has real injuries too, but this time it's one again to put on the long list of convenient injuries, perfectly suiting his agenda.


Spot on.  SPOT ON.  He does it all the time.  Also lovely excuses for when he loses too.  He's an egomaniac and a liar and a cheat.  Thumbs Up

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:41 pm

FICO MAJSTOREEEEEEEEEEE!!!! diva

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:44 pm

yes he has a nice style actually. Shame he cannot qualify!

So we will have Busta! ...or Sock! ..but does it matter which? In a way I am now glad Delpo is not in it. He could have tired Federer unecessarily. Busta is actually not a bad choice..unless you have tickets! Winking

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:55 pm

Sock one win away from WTF?  That came out of the blue.  I think of him as a barely top-20 player.

Other than Rafa and Fed, a lot of the old guard top-10 players (think Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga etc) were finally replaced this year with younger generation.  I wonder if it all reverts back to more usual next year when Nole, Andy, Stan, Nishi and Raonic (and also Berdych) all return, or whether the old guys will finally start sliding and Zverev, Thiem etc will be able to hold them off.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:27 pm

Tenez wrote:yes he has a nice style actually. Shame he cannot qualify!
He’s ok...just a “normal” player.
I am so happy for him...reminded me of when JJ made that breakthrough in Bercy 5 years ago...except that Filip is more level-headed.

I know Fed makes tennis earth go round, but it’s nice to see someone come from qualies to the final.

It would be lovely of he could win tomorrow.

Tenez wrote:So we will have Busta! ...or Sock! ..but does it matter which? In a way I am now glad Delpo is not in it. He could have tired Federer unecessarily. Busta is actually not a bad choice..unless you have tickets! Winking

Yes, my thoughts, too. No preference, though Sock looks less like a robot and has some personality.

I read how Patchey saod Nadal was not going to play WTF...so maybe Delpo will get a chance in the end...or is he completely out?

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:36 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I read how Patchey saod Nadal was not going to play WTF...so maybe Delpo will get a chance in the end...or is he completely out?
Delpo will make it if Rafa pulls out and Sock loses tomorrow:

If Sock loses:
Busta is in WTF
Delpo also if Rafa pulls out

If Sock wins:
Sock is in WTF
Busta also if Rafa pulls out
Delpo is out

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:37 pm

summerblues wrote:Sock one win away from WTF?  That came out of the blue.  I think of him as a barely top-20 player.

Yes, scary...but not as scary as Busta.
I think of him as too 50 at best.

Something’s gone very wrong this year....
summerblues wrote:
Other than Rafa and Fed, a lot of the old guard top-10 players (think Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga etc) were finally replaced this year with younger generation.  I wonder if it all reverts back to more usual next year when Nole, Andy, Stan, Nishi and Raonic (and also Berdych) all return, or whether the old guys will finally start sliding and Zverev, Thiem etc will be able to hold them off.

I noticed at the very beginning of this year that the “old guard” (Tsonga etc) have lost spark.
They have kind of given up the dream.

Regardless of whether Nole and the rest pick up next year, we are in for a few dull years.

I see Zverev and Thiem as limited players. Safe, sweaty tennis.
Zverev’s got the weapons but no heart, Thiem is the other way round.

We need someone with wings.

Shapo looks exciting and so does Kyrgios but he is too unstable in the head.

I’d love to know who is going to make top eight next year!

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:39 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I still think Federer never planned to play Paris.
That is what I think too.  Right when he won Shanghai he was sounding like he would likely play only one of Basel, Paris, and when one thinks about it, it was obvious it would be Basel.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:41 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I see Zverev and Thiem as limited players. Safe, sweaty tennis.
Zverev’s got the weapons but no heart, Thiem is the other way round.

We need someone with wings.

Shapo looks exciting and so does Kyrgios but he is too unstable in the head.
I kind of agree with all that.  Until I saw Shapo, I thought Kyrgios was the only one who had real ability to be top notch, but he is a head case, plus also his tennis is not entirely my cup of tea.

I hope Shapo will be for real.  He looks the most exciting of all by a country mile.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:45 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I don’t expect him to play IW and Miami next year, he is now shutting down after a week of a 500 event.
I think you may be right, but IW/Miami combo is not quite as bad as it sounds.  Each tournament takes up two weeks in the calendar, with top players only starting to play around Saturday of the first week.  So they almost get a one week rest in-between.  Also, there is a day between SF and final in Miami.  So, all in all, not quite as bad as doing Basel/Paris back-to-back.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:17 pm

summerblues wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I don’t expect him to play IW and Miami next year, he is now shutting down after a week of a 500 event.
I think you may be right, but IW/Miami combo is not quite as bad as it sounds.  Each tournament takes up two weeks in the calendar, with top players only starting to play around Saturday of the first week.  So they almost get a one week rest in-between.  Also, there is a day between SF and final in Miami.  So, all in all, not quite as bad as doing Basel/Paris back-to-back.

Yes, but they are slow.
And slow is a killer for Federer.

That’s why I think he didn’t play Paris...it would have totally drained him.

WTF is going to be as bad probably but at least it’s the last tournament plus a day between matches.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:23 pm

I am not so sure a slow court is bad for Fed nowadays that he has the power on his left wing. Before it was tough cause his BH was so soft that his opponents could  simply control the rallies. Now he is like a big hitter with deep shots. And we know big hitters have done well on slow courts cause they make less mistakes and still have the power to hit through the court, a la Stan, Delpo, Sod, etc....Isner or Sock.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:33 pm

Tenez wrote:I am not so sure a slow court is bad for Fed nowadays that he has the power on his left wing. Before it was tough cause his BH was so soft that his opponents could  simply control the rallies. Now he is like a big hitter with deep shots. And we know big hitters have done well on slow courts cause they make less mistakes and still have the power to hit through the court, a la Stan, Delpo, Sod, etc....Isner or Sock.
He is, but on slow coirts they come back and he needs more of them....and that drains him.

If he was 30, he would have been fine.

I have a feeling he is in pain after every match now.

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Re: Paris Masters 2017

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 pm

Not sure they come back! cause they are more precise, hence hurt more. That's why I was so annoyed he skipped The whole of clay.

Would be handy now to have another 500pts from clay!!!

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