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Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:08 pm

Nadal holding his grown. Woudl have been completely outplayed years ago when he was standing way further back!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:34 pm

And another big server left clueless through NAdal's court positioning 
He's so far back returning serves, you can litterly crawl to the net and still be in time

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:36 pm

Please reset NKR!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:45 pm

Tenez wrote:Nadal holding his grown. Woudl have been completely outplayed years ago when he was standing way further back!
Don't agree.
Look at this clip from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1DbWYrnaQ

And look at f.i. his positioning at 2:18. He's almost returning on the baseline. It was Moya who told him this year  to step 5 yards back . It has been working all year, except against Muller, yes, a S&V player.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Quite pathetic display by Nick. He has no plan B. Well,  he has: walking around like a spoiled kid.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Jahu on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:52 pm

Come on Korgi, wake the fuck up man, do something.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:55 pm

Sad

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:58 pm

noleisthebest wrote:What needs to happen for the druggie to get time violation! 

This is a joke.
I stopped watching there and then.

Life is too precious to waste on cheating Nadal wnd gutless umpires like Llayani.

Nick Kyrgious would redeem himself for all the stupid stuff he had done in the past if he said stg about it during trophy presentation.
Stg like: "I wish I could congratulate Nadal on his victory, but I don't congratulate cheats who abuse rules. Shame on you, and shame on the umoire and ATP for allowing it."

Come on,  Nick, be a REAL rebel.

It's worth it!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:00 pm

gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal holding his grown. Woudl have been completely outplayed years ago when he was standing way further back!
Don't agree.
Look at this clip from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1DbWYrnaQ

And look at f.i. his positioning at 2:18. He's almost returning on the baseline. It was Moya who told him this year  to step 5 yards back . It has been working all year, except against Muller, yes, a S&V player.
This clip v Dimi does show a very different Nadal and certainly not his best. His mouvement and shots are quite below what we see today so it is difficult to compare.

I agree he returns far back today but look at what he does after...he gets closer to the baseline and hold it firm. His strength is that he can really find angles from BH and FH while being close to the baseline. Points are much shorter now than they were years ago.

In teh past he was standing further back....and any baseliner with power from both side woudl give him trouble. Now they don't.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:04 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal holding his grown. Woudl have been completely outplayed years ago when he was standing way further back!
Don't agree.
Look at this clip from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1DbWYrnaQ

And look at f.i. his positioning at 2:18. He's almost returning on the baseline. It was Moya who told him this year  to step 5 yards back . It has been working all year, except against Muller, yes, a S&V player.
This clip v Dimi does show a very different Nadal and certainly not his best. His mouvement and shots are quite below what we see today so it is difficult to compare.

I agree he returns far back today but look at what he does after...he gets closer to the baseline and hold it firm. His strength is that he can really find angles from BH and FH while being close to the baseline. Points are much shorter now than they were years ago.

In teh past he was standing further back....and any baseliner with power from both side woudl give him trouble. Now they don't.

And it is because he can find those angles that he now has more time while standing close to the BL.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:05 pm

Kyrgios is playing poorly, not very focused. I would have liked to see Zverev today actually.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Jahu on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:10 pm

Nadal bought this match, bit of a Nike deal for Korgi, to let Nadal get as many points for YE 1.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:18 pm

Sensational performance!!

So happy Big Grin Of course the tournament was not the most important, but his level was fantastic after R1 and all the matches were so fun to watch

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:18 pm

I think next year Djoko and Murray will still be off form with low confidence, Federer simply too old. So our only hope to stop Nadal will be Zverev, a fit Nishi and a mentally strong Kyrgios.....so in short, not much!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:20 pm

Tenez wrote:I think next year Djoko and Murray will still be off form with low confidence, Federer simply too old. So our only hope to stop Nadal will be Zverev, a fit Nishi and a mentally strong Kyrgios.....so in short, not much!
Well, I hope Djoko just retires and leave Nadal to win twenty slams.
Christ would def come the next day!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:21 pm

DECIMA wrote:Sensational performance!!

So happy Big Grin Of course the tournament was not the most important, but his level was fantastic after R1 and all the matches were so fun to watch
His BH is certainly considerably better nowadays followed by his FH sending players corner to corner with enough long trajectory to allow him to stand close to the baseline. His footwork is just still crazy. He retrieved a FH from Kyrgios that not many woudl have put a racquet on.

BUt your player is still ugly to watch. It's still pur power with little talent.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:23 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:I think next year Djoko and Murray will still be off form with low confidence, Federer simply too old. So our only hope to stop Nadal will be Zverev, a fit Nishi and a mentally strong Kyrgios.....so in short, not much!
Well, I hope Djoko just retires and leave Nadal to win twenty slams.
Christ would def come the next day!
Laugh

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Jahu on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:24 pm

Zeverev cant beat Nadal for next 4y, heck even Fed is too strong for him.

Nishi? Given up on him.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:27 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nadal holding his grown. Woudl have been completely outplayed years ago when he was standing way further back!
Don't agree.
Look at this clip from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1DbWYrnaQ

And look at f.i. his positioning at 2:18. He's almost returning on the baseline. It was Moya who told him this year  to step 5 yards back . It has been working all year, except against Muller, yes, a S&V player.
This clip v Dimi does show a very different Nadal and certainly not his best. His mouvement and shots are quite below what we see today so it is difficult to compare.

I agree he returns far back today but look at what he does after...he gets closer to the baseline and hold it firm. His strength is that he can really find angles from BH and FH while being close to the baseline. Points are much shorter now than they were years ago.

In teh past he was standing further back....and any baseliner with power from both side woudl give him trouble. Now they don't.
This looks like his 2006 style to me, with him now being more succesful with it..
So the courts must be really sticky or today's competition is close of being a joke (today Kyrgios certainly is).

I really think this year he's playing further back than previous years, just check the clips. And because he faces so little variation in type of players, he sticks with it and keeps on winning.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Jahu on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:30 pm

Yep, no need to change anything, stays 5m after baseline, and still sorts of Korgi can't do a drop shot.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Tenez wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Sensational performance!!

So happy Big Grin Of course the tournament was not the most important, but his level was fantastic after R1 and all the matches were so fun to watch
His BH is certainly considerably better nowadays followed by his FH sending players corner to corner with enough long trajectory to allow him to stand close to the baseline. His footwork is just still crazy. He retrieved a FH from Kyrgios that not many woudl have put a racquet on.
It's considerably better than 2015 and last year when he was a shadow, still not at the level of his prime. Loved watching his matches this week, some really fantastic play.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:34 pm

Tenez wrote:I think next year Djoko and Murray will still be off form with low confidence, Federer simply too old. So our only hope to stop Nadal will be Zverev, a fit Nishi and a mentally strong Kyrgios.....so in short, not much!
It's what Federer said this year about the new generation: The're not attacking, really, they still all are slugging it out from the baseline. So yes: Nadal can maintain his winning ways for a while. It's this sameness of competition what's making it for Nadal a cake walk.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:36 pm

Kyrgios is not really the same style as Zverev though...

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:39 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Sensational performance!!

So happy Big Grin Of course the tournament was not the most important, but his level was fantastic after R1 and all the matches were so fun to watch
His BH is certainly considerably better nowadays followed by his FH sending players corner to corner with enough long trajectory to allow him to stand close to the baseline. His footwork is just still crazy. He retrieved a FH from Kyrgios that not many woudl have put a racquet on.
It's considerably better than 2015 and last year when he was a shadow, still not at the level of his prime. Loved watching his matches this week, some really fantastic play.
Sensational? 

You should have taken your eyes off Nadal for a second and see how pathetic Kyrgios played.
Sure that's also Nadal's merit but calling that sensational? nah

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:43 pm

DECIMA wrote:Kyrgios is not really the same style as Zverev though...
In the bigger picture: they are the same.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:47 pm

gallery play wrote:
Sensational? 
Yeah, in fact I think he played very well all week after the Pouille match. Cool
Kyrgios wasn't great today, but he wasn't that bad either, 6-2 6-1 is a battering

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Daniel on Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:32 pm

Capitulation from Kyrgios.  And not using his brain like Del Potro.  Just take Nadal's time away with net play and he's done and dusted.  But they just sit back and give him exactly what he wants. Doh No short balls.  No nothing.  Just keep playing the same shots and wait for him to return it.

And he got v lucky vs Pouille.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:57 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Sensational performance!!

So happy Big Grin Of course the tournament was not the most important, but his level was fantastic after R1 and all the matches were so fun to watch
His BH is certainly considerably better nowadays followed by his FH sending players corner to corner with enough long trajectory to allow him to stand close to the baseline. His footwork is just still crazy. He retrieved a FH from Kyrgios that not many woudl have put a racquet on.
It's considerably better than 2015 and last year when he was a shadow, still not at the level of his prime. Loved watching his matches this week, some really fantastic play.

Yeah right.....when he was losing every match from USO onwards...

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:03 pm

It is very hard to serve and volley versus Nadal.  Sure he stands far back on the return but what can you do with a zipping ball coming vertically at you? You need perfect timing and execution.

I don;t think federer does a lot of SVing against Nadal either. He creates opportunity to get to the net for sure but for that you need to built a good point.

I really think Zverev woudl have done better today simply because he is better at rallying and has a more powerful BH.

Having said that I am not sure you all see the improvement of Nadal from his BH side. he is hurting much more than in the past. he is often dictating nowadays. He has found his court positioning and tries to hurt with his FH and BH.

I woudl just like to see an in-form federer versus this Nadal. Should be interesting.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:26 pm

Tenez would you say his performances against Dimi and then Kyrgios this week were at his highest level ever?

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:03 pm

well, nadal won a HC title

he beat pouille (with luck), khachanov, isner, dimitrov and kyrgios

he played some great tennis, and in the final he demolished the one who was thought to be his cryptonite.

I do think too he has improved his BH a lot

now donaldson to start in shanghai... not easy first match after such an intense week

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:10 pm

DECIMA wrote:Tenez would you say his performances against Dimi and then Kyrgios this week were at his highest level ever?
Neither Dimi or Kyrgios played well. However in the past Nadal's game, especially indoor, could make Garcia Lopez, Troicki or Melzer play "great". Nowadays those guys would have no chance. Even the better players find it hard to move Nadal around.

He now punishes systematically a poor shot whereas in the past he was not punishing anything on hard court, he woudl stand far back and send short balls. Now he is closer (around 1m5 behind the baseline max) and tries to get inside at the first opportunity. And he can do that thanks to his very angled shots.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:14 pm

Which Nadal win do you think was his best ever performance?

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:26 pm

I don't know. I tend to avoid watching his game but today he clearly dismantled Kyrgios.

Kyrgios should have felt comfortable and blast him of the court but simply could not.


In this clip we clearly see how close he is from the baseline when he serves. And when he returns just watch how he advances right after the return gaining half a meter per shot and finishing often inside the baseline.

I think his BH is simply much better than any time in the past but he can also hit his FH closer after the bounce. It;s bloody obvious in that clip.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:34 pm

that isn't HD, this is better quality:


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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:37 pm

It;s obvious he has better shots from both wings. WHat's bizarre he that he doesn;t seem to tire or feel the pain of playing in day in day out as one would at 31.

In form Djoko would still beat him I think. cause he woudl get better too.


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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by DECIMA on Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Get better from what? Sun bathing?

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:30 pm

in this tournament, he had a hard time with pouille, but then he could rest for one day. then all matches were quite fast except for dimitrov which went to a third just for a bad moment in second set, rest of the match was sailing

with this I am saying he didnt tire too much really

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Daniel on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:58 pm

Muller managed it, Tenez.  Stop pretending it's more difficult than it is to neutralize Nadal's insane position on court.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:13 am

Muller indeed played an incredible match

but it seemed more like he would have lost 9 out of 10 matches against rafa

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:39 am

Kachanov is pathetic and gutless, 33 shot rally to save first BP...80% of his shots went to Tsitsi's soft BH.

In the next point,Tsitsi takes the second BP and the first set, well done!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:48 am

good result from Chung. I have not lost hope on him....even if he is often injured.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:10 am

Tsitsi in round two, great result for him! Applause

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:11 am

Tenez wrote:good result from Chung. I have not lost hope on him....even if he is often injured.

Yes saw that, Gutty is quite a scalp.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:02 am

Can Shapavalov take Troicki out?

He should else he is going to the same road as the other young players. The slow-road.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:07 am

Nadal played phenomenal this week and he is playing aggressive on every opportunity he gets. He comes to the net to finish points, and once the rally starts, he is often on the BL and not too behind.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:14 am

By the way, the final was played indoor

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:18 am

naxroy wrote:By the way, the final was played indoor
Indoor eliminates wind/sun etc. But doesn't do anything to change the surface. But I'm not going there, he clearly was playing too good to beat everyone he faced. Poullie panicked oncrunch times, and that is all that differentiates top players from the pretenders.

 Dimi/Krygios created some chances for themselves, but for most of the part they themselves were chasing the scoreline. Poullie came closest to beat him and on another day would beat as well. Just panicked at the wrong moment.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:32 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
naxroy wrote:By the way, the final was played indoor
Indoor eliminates wind/sun etc. But doesn't do anything to change the surface. But I'm not going there, he clearly was playing too good to beat everyone he faced. Poullie panicked oncrunch times, and that is all that differentiates top players from the pretenders.
Well yes but on the bigger stage a year ago, it was Nadal who messed up MPs v Pouille at the USO.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:04 pm

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
naxroy wrote:By the way, the final was played indoor
Indoor eliminates wind/sun etc. But doesn't do anything to change the surface. But I'm not going there, he clearly was playing too good to beat everyone he faced. Poullie panicked oncrunch times, and that is all that differentiates top players from the pretenders.
Well yes but on the bigger stage a year ago, it was Nadal who messed up MPs v Pouille at the USO.

I disagree.

Nadal is the same player as last year. the only difference is the confidence that there is nobody in his way, namely Djokovic, and he knows Federer is physically inferior to him so can only compete with him fresh.

With the tour being in the state it is with all injuries, I also believe Nadal has been given green light to go as physical as he likes...disgusting umpiring all week suggests it.

Nadal's BH has improved and is very good in its limited CC scope where his fast legs and feet come to rescue.

But again, had Pouille not missed that FH sitter on the MP, would we be having this conversation?

I've given up on Nadal's "luck"...

noleisthebest

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

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