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Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:19 am

BTW, I think his standing far back on the return was a mistake from Nadal. Federer 's accurate serving makes it much harder to return.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:21 am

Tenez wrote:But the pace at Shanghai has alaways been quite fast(ish). This is why I guess he never won it.

Here is a list of players he lost to in Shanghai since 2009:

Davydenko 2009
Melzer 2010
Mayer 2011
Delpo 2013
Lopez 2014
Tsonga 2015
Troiki 2016
I don't think he woudl have lost to those guys this year (Maybe to Davy and Delpo).

The good measure of how much Nadal has improved from 2016-17 is Wimbledon.

So, not much...

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:23 am

Tenez wrote:BTW, I think his standing far back on the return was a mistake from Nadal. Federer 's accurate serving makes it much harder to return.
Plus, Federer was lightning quick on his feet.
I can't remember seeing him like that even this AO.

He looked strong and fresh, nothing was hindering him.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:51 am

noleisthebest wrote:The good measure of how much Nadal has improved from 2016-17 is Wimbledon.

So, not much...
Well he looked like a pretender to the title this year, certainly due to the slower conditions. He is a much better player this year than last. Let's not bling ourselves. As much as I wanted him to decline years ago (and thought he would), he is still very tough to beat. Shame we do not have other measuring sticks as the other top players are all out.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:BTW, I think his standing far back on the return was a mistake from Nadal. Federer 's accurate serving makes it much harder to return.
Plus, Federer was lightning quick on his feet.
I can't remember seeing him like that even this AO.

He looked strong and fresh, nothing was hindering him.

I just saw where nadal was standing on Federer's serve. Not nearly as far as against Cilic or Dimi. So clearly he knew he had to hold his ground v Fed, even on returns. It's obvious as fed would have exploited that standing so far back with his volleying.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by bogbrush on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:04 am

Stand up or stand back, whatever. The problem for Nadal is that he ran a single strategy against Federer for a decade based on a shot (the weak sliced backhand) that no longer exists. That's become a dangerous driven backhand that shoves him way out wide to his forehand. He now has to do stuff like serve to the forehand, something he rightly did about 1% of the time before. 

You can see how this might give him some problems.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:09 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:The good measure of how much Nadal has improved from 2016-17 is Wimbledon.

So, not much...
Well he looked like a pretender to the title this year, certainly due to the slower conditions. He is a much better player this year than last. Let's not bling ourselves. As much as I wanted him to decline years ago (and thought he would), he is still very tough to beat. Shame we do not have other measuring sticks as the other top players are all out.

There is no reason why he should not be.

He has a strong wind in his back from ATP who are in a panic mode as half the tour is injured.

Do you remember that umpiring robbery vs Goffin?
Or how physical he was in RG?

Dangerous players are kept away from in a draw and when they do play him, umpires come to rescue...(didn't an incident happen with Kyrgios in the first game recently?)
It's nit everything, but as TESCO says- every little helps...

To me, he's been given the green light to be a "fit" as he pleases.

And that's always been all he needed to win...noone is doubting his retrievig skills.
Even yesterday they were impressive at times.

It's not like he's shortening the points...still the same recipe.

Plus, he is naturally timing the ball a bit better, like everyone else.

If the tour was all present and healthy, I doubt he'd ve won much this year.

But that's 2017...at least we saw Federer's best tennis and also Shapo came on the scene.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:14 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:BTW, I think his standing far back on the return was a mistake from Nadal. Federer 's accurate serving makes it much harder to return.
Plus, Federer was lightning quick on his feet.
I can't remember seeing him like that even this AO.

He looked strong and fresh, nothing was hindering him.

I just saw where nadal was standing on Federer's serve. Not nearly as far as against Cilic or Dimi. So clearly he knew he had to hold his ground v Fed, even on returns. It's obvious as fed would have exploited that standing so far back with his volleying.
Yes!! This is my very point all along. And this is why i'm so dissapointed in all the others. They do nothing, they all turn into Gasquets, waiting on their backfoot for NAdal to strike

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:18 am

bogbrush wrote:Stand up or stand back, whatever. The problem for Nadal is that he ran a single strategy against Federer for a decade based on a shot (the weak sliced backhand) that no longer exists. That's become a dangerous driven backhand that shoves him way out wide to his forehand. He now has to do stuff like serve to the forehand, something he rightly did about 1% of the time before. 

You can see how this might give him some problems.
yes though we are not arguing this here. Btw, it's extra pace from both wings and the serve that helps. Fed can now play normal shots consistently while keeping the ball deep. Before even his topspin BH was shorter/slower. Nadal cannot even create a BPs nowadays. I am sure Fed woudl have won his AO in 3 had he not had that groin impediment.

To me Nadal is better at playing closer to the baseline this year. Not good enough to beat Federer obviously but still a better player.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:53 am

another HC master final for Nadal

17 HC masters finals for the claycourter.

I wonder how many specialists have more than him

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by gallery play on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:03 pm

naxroy wrote:another HC master final for Nadal

17 HC masters finals for the claycourter.

I wonder how many specialists have more than him
Keep sending your daily updates about Nadal's career. You're one tiny step away from turning us into Nadal fans
Winking

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 pm

Another interesting stat is how shorter was the final compared to Nadal's typical match. 63 64 in 1h12mn when he can take up easily 1h30mn for such score. I wonder whether he has the obligation to play within the rules when facing Federer.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:32 pm

gallery play wrote:
naxroy wrote:another HC master final for Nadal

17 HC masters finals for the claycourter.

I wonder how many specialists have more than him
Keep sending your daily updates about Nadal's career. You're one tiny step away from turning us into Nadal fans
Winking

its a good thing for nadal and his fans that there are updates to his career

6 HC finals in one year (including 2 slam finals and 2 m1000 finals)

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:15 am

naxroy wrote:
gallery play wrote:
naxroy wrote:another HC master final for Nadal

17 HC masters finals for the claycourter.

I wonder how many specialists have more than him
Keep sending your daily updates about Nadal's career. You're one tiny step away from turning us into Nadal fans
Winking

its a good thing for nadal and his fans that there are updates to his career

6 HC finals in one year (including 2 slam finals and 2 m1000 finals)

Easily forgetting that the pace of Hard courts are as good as clay. This is not era of specialists, the surfaces are more-or-less same  i.e. slow to very slow. No place for specialists, they are all extinct. Hence it produces players who can play the same game on all courts and still succeed to certain level.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:02 am

Yes, that interview shows he should've changed the racquet long time ago...

Even now at 97", it's still the smallest one on tour, probably.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:35 am

I think Delpo has a 95"

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:45 am

luvsports! wrote:I think Delpo has a 95"
Now imagine Delpo playing a SBH topspin DTL vs Nadal...

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:52 am

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I think Delpo has a 95"
Now imagine Delpo playing a SBH topspin DTL vs Nadal...

Agreed. When you think Fed was on a 90inch!!!! It's crazy!

Another guy Fed has not lost since changing to larger frame: Murray. I think he has 5 wins in a row too. Worse he took only one close set TB in those 5 encounters and could not win a set in their last 4 matches!.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:18 pm

fact is federer is the best ever

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:14 pm

naxroy wrote:I have the feeling nadal wont be playing much until london

nadal wont play basel

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:28 am

Shame that the year end no1 battle is probably over. 
Being no1 at 36 would have been incredible.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:50 am

yes...maybe it's too late.

But noone can say Federer is not the real number one.
Not even Nadal.

Maybe he made a few scheduling mistakes this year...we don't know how he was in his body...part of being 36!

Personally, I am very happy with his 2017. I thought he'd never come back after Wimbledon last year.

So to see him win two slams and in what style, produce some sublime tennis, reinvent his BH, beat Nadal 4 times and turn him into his bunny - it's like a miracle...mission well accomplished. Winking

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:51 am

I know nitb but we get greedy! 
This year has brought me so much joy. I still watch that final set of the Oz Open when i am feeling blue Winking

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:52 am

luvsports! wrote:I know nitb but we get greedy! 
This year has brought me so much joy. I still watch that final set of the Oz Open when i am feeling blue Winking
me, too. I know the last five games by heart!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:58 am

Yes that AO final has almost made up for that 2008 Wimby loss. That was terrible. Fed's worse defeat imo.

If there was a week rest between Basel and Paris I would still fancy his chances. But as is.....no way.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by naxroy on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:03 pm

indeed a great year for Federer, and of course also for Nadal

its nice for federer to have beaten nadal 5 times in a row, like nadal already did 3 different times to him

as for number one... ranking is what it is... maybe fed should have played clay season, but who knows... as it happened, nadal is of course the clear number 1

federer can still reclaim that spot though, lets see what happens

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:09 pm

naxroy wrote:indeed a great year for Federer, and of course also for Nadal
...
Indeed. Even better as he is the number 1 in spite of being beaten 4 times by the number 2. Nadal's luck really.

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:10 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I know nitb but we get greedy! 
This year has brought me so much joy. I still watch that final set of the Oz Open when i am feeling blue Winking
me, too. I know the last five games by heart!

I enjoy these too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJOYjhXvsc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LV_o7rhz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II0GLV1G9Vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwgvEcyiBHc

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:20 pm

Well the H2H has become interesting again.

Cillic needs shooting. Nearly 100 ball bounces in a service game!! Disgraceful. Just serve the fcking ball man!

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:50 pm

luvsports! wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I know nitb but we get greedy! 
This year has brought me so much joy. I still watch that final set of the Oz Open when i am feeling blue Winking
me, too. I know the last five games by heart!

I enjoy these too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJOYjhXvsc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LV_o7rhz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II0GLV1G9Vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwgvEcyiBHc

Brilliant, thanks!

The Arabic guy is the king as always, followed by Robbie.
The Spanish commentator had to mention Roland Garros. Doh

And that American guy summed it up well: Has the victory ever been so sweet, right here, right now!
Amen to that! Bubbly

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:42 pm

Yeah the Spanish one, haha! 
Mentioning Rafa winning 9 at the time and feds just one on match point XD

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Re: Asian Swing 2017: Bejing/Tokyo & Shanghai

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