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This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:32 pm

1. You keep making the same mistake. IF the guy has popular support then no honest Court will find him guilty. Oh, and outlaw means outside of the protection of the law. As such the people are unfettered to defend themselves without sanction of law. Know what that means? In such a system I wonder if you want to reconsider your evaluation of the punishment.

2. Oh “we know” do we? Spoken like a good Statist. This is no problem as it happens, fault from pollution can be found in the contribution to general condition of the atmosphere and law would find against the causer of the pollution to make their damage good. That means making reparation and probably going bust, by the way.

3. THE GOVERNMENT PROMOTES THEM. how many times am I going to have to explain this? It is only through the instruments if the State that such entities can thrive. Every time you see a State ”heroically” taking abusive Corporatism it is doing no more than repairing the problem it caused. 

I showed you your silly hypothetical didn’t come to pass when the opportunity existed. I have also pointed you to vast, debilitating monopolies that DO exist because of the State. When are you going to get your head out of these lame hypothetical examples that have been flogged far past use and address these massive points of principle? Ever?

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:25 pm

bogbrush wrote:I point to a fork in the road. Totalitarianism is inherently unstable because

- it destroys wealth leading to competitive disadvantage and failure against a rival
- it relies on ever-escalating oppression leading eventually to revolution.

I suspect if the State model is not challenged we will waste another hundred years or so going down the wrong road before inevitable crisis and another turmoil.
Maybe crises followed by turmoil, and then another totalitarian system etc forever is the stable situation.

But more importantly, are there even forks in the road?  Does not everything just happen because it has to and no other alternative was possible?  Maybe it only looks like a fork to us because we do not know which direction things have to go.  And in that context, is not everything that happens by definition the best (and only) thing that can happen.  And if totalitarianism and coercion win out, does it not just mean that they were superior to any other alternative?  Are the statements like "going down the wrong road" not nonsensical by definition?  If there is only one road, then it is impossible to go down a wrong one.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:27 pm

DECIMA wrote:some of my younger friends who like Communism
Do you also have friends that like Nazism?

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Daniel on Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:11 am

Most people who like communism know nothing about it. They think it's the ultimate form of equality and have been told nothing from their uni or colleges, that are themselves infested with leftism. Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about. You can't get away from the world's deadliest battle being told on TV and in history classes.

And when the media is 90%+ Left wing... you are unlikely to hear bad coverage about the ideals of Corbyn or Bernie Sanders and the death and destruction they bring.  People are idiots.  They believe what they are told on TV and by their peers.  They seldom take time to use the internet for 5 minutes. My extended family and some of my friends are that dumb as well.

They know nothing about Jeremy Corbyn other than he makes a lot of promises about equality.  They don't read about his connections to IRA, his support of Hezbollah, his communism ideals, his rallies that are attended by hundreds of commie flag wavers.  All of this they aren't told on BBC... so to them it doesn't exist.  The average voter is an ignoramus. 


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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:37 pm

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I point to a fork in the road. Totalitarianism is inherently unstable because

- it destroys wealth leading to competitive disadvantage and failure against a rival
- it relies on ever-escalating oppression leading eventually to revolution.

I suspect if the State model is not challenged we will waste another hundred years or so going down the wrong road before inevitable crisis and another turmoil.
Maybe crises followed by turmoil, and then another totalitarian system etc forever is the stable situation.

But more importantly, are there even forks in the road?  Does not everything just happen because it has to and no other alternative was possible?  Maybe it only looks like a fork to us because we do not know which direction things have to go.  And in that context, is not everything that happens by definition the best (and only) thing that can happen.  And if totalitarianism and coercion win out, does it not just mean that they were superior to any other alternative?  Are the statements like "going down the wrong road" not nonsensical by definition?  If there is only one road, then it is impossible to go down a wrong one.
Roads, directions, whatever. You get the idea.

I say wrong because the long term development of the species will be best served through freedom. Totalitarianism just stumbles from failure to failure. There’s lots of examples of how evolution can be long term inefficient, the organism just can’t make the leap to the efficient solution (like the laryngeal nerve) but it would be cool if evolution allowed us to reason through this stage.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:52 am

Daniel wrote:Most people who like communism know nothing about it. [...] Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about.
You are probably right.  Still, I find it amazingly hypocritical how differently people treat the two.  You can fairly frequently see people happily donning Che Guevara T-shirts.  Nobody would wear Mussolini shirts.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:26 am

bogbrush wrote:I say wrong because the long term development of the species will be best served through freedom.
But this is all irrelevant.

If the world is deterministic, and if people have no free will, then the world can only advance in exactly one direction - and that is whatever direction the rules of physics (because ultimately it is all just physics) let it advance.

All that matters is what happens.  There is nothing that "should" happen that does not happen.  There is no "wrong" direction because the very concepts of "right" or "wrong" have no objective meaning.  Things either happen or they do not.

If the world does not take the direction that best promotes (your view of) the long term development of the species, then so be it.  It just means that the rules of physics do not lead to optimal long term development of the species.  There is nothing "wrong" with that, irrespective of your cries to the contrary.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:05 am

summerblues wrote:
Daniel wrote:Most people who like communism know nothing about it. [...] Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about.
You are probably right.  Still, I find it amazingly hypocritical how differently people treat the two.  You can fairly frequently see people happily donning Che Guevara T-shirts.  Nobody would wear Mussolini shirts.

The problem with Communism is people. No different than with Capitalism. Capitalism, and not Hitler, led to the last 2 world wars. So I find you a bit partial in your judgement. Capitalism is now destroying the planet like no system did before and in the process starts wars wherever it can.

But unlike you I don't blame "systems", I blame people's greed. It's as simple as that.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:07 am

summerblues wrote:
Daniel wrote:Most people who like communism know nothing about it. [...] Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about.
You are probably right.  Still, I find it amazingly hypocritical how differently people treat the two.  You can fairly frequently see people happily donning Che Guevara T-shirts.  Nobody would wear Mussolini shirts.

Must be because Che was better looking...not only than Mussolini but Blair, Clinton, Bush...

Putin is now becoming the latest t-shirt fashion.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:33 pm

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I say wrong because the long term development of the species will be best served through freedom.
But this is all irrelevant.

If the world is deterministic, and if people have no free will, then the world can only advance in exactly one direction - and that is whatever direction the rules of physics (because ultimately it is all just physics) let it advance.

All that matters is what happens.  There is nothing that "should" happen that does not happen.  There is no "wrong" direction because the very concepts of "right" or "wrong" have no objective meaning.  Things either happen or they do not.

If the world does not take the direction that best promotes (your view of) the long term development of the species, then so be it.  It just means that the rules of physics do not lead to optimal long term development of the species.  There is nothing "wrong" with that, irrespective of your cries to the contrary.
This is a good point but I disagree.

Just because we are just atoms doesn't mean we are free from the instincts that have characterised our predecessors, whose reproductive success reinforced those instincts. Thus it's perfectly within definition to want to achieve superior organisation because it promotes well being (a state which we're instinctively drawn to for all the above reasons).

It might be that this point caused some issues with others many pages ago: I would never argue that we are somehow made indifferent because of our evolution. Quite the reverse really, we're utterly trapped by these instincts (which explains why religious leaders proclaiming how wonderful it's going to be when sat at the feet of God in the eternal afterlife of lovely things will fight tooth and claw not to die).

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:35 pm

Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Daniel wrote:Most people who like communism know nothing about it. [...] Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about.
You are probably right.  Still, I find it amazingly hypocritical how differently people treat the two.  You can fairly frequently see people happily donning Che Guevara T-shirts.  Nobody would wear Mussolini shirts.

The problem with Communism is people. No different than with Capitalism. Capitalism, and not Hitler, led to the last 2 world wars. So I find you a bit partial in your judgement. Capitalism is now destroying the planet like no system did before and in the process starts wars wherever it can.

But unlike you I don't blame "systems", I blame people's greed. It's as simple as that.
People are instinctive resource gatherers. What goes wrong is when we forget that and try to organise on the basis of altruism or other fantasies. That's when we do really stupid things like give some power over others.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:01 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Daniel wrote:Most people who like communism know nothing about it. [...] Everyone, on the other hand, knows what Hitler was about.
You are probably right.  Still, I find it amazingly hypocritical how differently people treat the two.  You can fairly frequently see people happily donning Che Guevara T-shirts.  Nobody would wear Mussolini shirts.

The problem with Communism is people. No different than with Capitalism. Capitalism, and not Hitler, led to the last 2 world wars. So I find you a bit partial in your judgement. Capitalism is now destroying the planet like no system did before and in the process starts wars wherever it can.

But unlike you I don't blame "systems", I blame people's greed. It's as simple as that.
People are instinctive resource gatherers. What goes wrong is when we forget that and try to organise on the basis of altruism or other fantasies. That's when we do really stupid things like give some power over others.

That's why I believe in random elections...cause then we don;t give power to others but responsabilise every citizen.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:47 am

bogbrush wrote:This is a good point but I disagree.

Just because we are just atoms doesn't mean we are free from the instincts that have characterised our predecessors, whose reproductive success reinforced those instincts. Thus it's perfectly within definition to want to achieve superior organisation because it promotes well being.
Everything that happens is within definition.  We all have our preferences and it is "within definition" to try to advance those.  But - if you accept that we are just a product of laws of physics - no preferences are above any others.  (Some preferences may be more common than others, but that does not make them superior - all preferences that exist are equally valid).

If one person prefers to play a round of golf, and another one prefers to start a genocide, they are both "within definition".  And, if in fact the golfer ends up not playing because of bad weather while the other guy successfully starts a genocide, it is the latter's preferences that were in tune with laws of physics, so, if anything, you should view those as "superior".

If you take the view that physics is all there is, and if you want to be intellectually honest with yourself, then you need to also say that genocide is perfectly ok.  Trying to skate around that is disingenuous.


Last edited by summerblues on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:53 am

Tenez wrote:The problem with Communism is people. No different than with Capitalism. [...] But unlike you I don't blame "systems"
I don't think we are as far apart as you suggest.  Of course the problem is people.  We both agree on that.  But given that, we can still try to figure out a system that works as well as possible.  Again, we both seem to agree there too - that is presumably why you are suggesting that government should be drawn by a random lot - because you think that would create a better system.

Where we disagree is on how to set up a reasonable system.  I find the suggestion of randomly drawing people hopelessly naïve.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:22 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:This is a good point but I disagree.

Just because we are just atoms doesn't mean we are free from the instincts that have characterised our predecessors, whose reproductive success reinforced those instincts. Thus it's perfectly within definition to want to achieve superior organisation because it promotes well being.
Everything that happens is within definition.  We all have our preferences and it is "within definition" to try to advance those.  But - if you accept that we are just a product of laws of physics - no preferences are above any others.  (Some preferences may be more common than others, but that does not make them superior - all preferences that exist are equally valid).

If one person prefers to play a round of golf, and another one prefers to start a genocide, they are both "within definition".  And, if in fact the golfer ends up not playing because of bad weather while the other guy successfully starts a genocide, it is the latter's preferences that were in tune with laws of physics, so, if anything, you should view those as "superior".

If you take the view that physics is all there is, and if you want to be intellectually honest with yourself, then you need to also say that genocide is perfectly ok.  Trying to skate around that is disingenuous.
I’m not talking about commonality or “ok” behaviour, whatever that means, We agree that systems of organisation evolve like organisms but evolution does not necessarily produce the most efficient outcome, it just advances any systemfrom where it started in the direction of what gets to survive.

The nerve I mention is very interesting. It’s completely efficient in a fish but stupid everywhere eise because evolution can’t flip it around the artery. Thus as the animal body shape evolves the nerve has to continue to take the longer and longer route. It’s a very good demolition of the ridiculous Intelligent Design theory as it happens, only an idiot would put it there so if God did this he needs to go back to school.

I see State government like that nerve. It lasts because that’s where it’s developing from but it’s stupid. Maybe developed intelligence will enable humans to flip it over and move to a more enlightened solution. I’m not holding my breath.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:18 pm

bogbrush wrote:It lasts because that’s where it’s developing from but it’s stupid.  [...] and move to a more enlightened solution
Again, you are trying to skate around the issue and push your agenda.  There is no "stupid" or "enlightened" solution.  Things either are or are not.  If physics does not produce "a more enlightened" state but a "stupid" one instead, then it is a fool's errand to pine for the former.

bogbrush wrote:I’m not holding my breath.
Good idea.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:35 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:It lasts because that’s where it’s developing from but it’s stupid.  [...] and move to a more enlightened solution
Again, you are trying to skate around the issue and push your agenda.  There is no "stupid" or "enlightened" solution.  Things either are or are not.  If physics does not produce "a more enlightened" state but a "stupid" one instead, then it is a fool's errand to pine for the former.

bogbrush wrote:I’m not holding my breath.
Good idea.
Not at all; evolution has enabled many humans to understand the difference between historical precedent and precision and it might be that this enlightenment can come to form the superior form of organisation. That's evolution, the question is only which force will prove more fit in the future. Circumstances might change (war, natural catastrophe, some form of failure, etc.) and create the environment for a change. 

Evolution does not follow straight lines nor does what worked before work best in the future. There have been numerous mass extinctions and reset buttons pressed leading to the pre-eminence of mammals which was certainly not inevitable.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:58 am

Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 pm

Tenez wrote:Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!  
Nope, I didn't.

The trick is to realise it's only chemistry. The atoms never changed, just the arrangement.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Daniel on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:04 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!  
Nope, I didn't.

The trick is to realise it's only chemistry. The atoms never changed, just the arrangement.

Oh, good... it's all explained.    Laugh Doh  I'm glad all these complex debates can be cleared up with one liners.  I was starting to worry that the universe was complicated.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:03 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!  
Nope, I didn't.

The trick is to realise it's only chemistry. The atoms never changed, just the arrangement.

You keep missing the trick. Dead atoms would never arrange to reproduce. Not even in a trillion years! And unlike what you say atoms constantly change as they are made of multiple sub particles ! It;s like 0 + 0 will never equate 1, yet, you do not see any problem with that in-equation.
Matter is extremely difficult to define. It;s a work in progress. "Lively" matter could lead to life, but not dead one.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:15 am

bogbrush wrote:Not at all; evolution has enabled many humans to understand the difference between historical precedent and precision and it might be that this enlightenment can come to form the superior form of organisation. That's evolution, the question is only which force will prove more fit in the future. Circumstances might change (war, natural catastrophe, some form of failure, etc.) and create the environment for a change. 

Evolution does not follow straight lines nor does what worked before work best in the future. There have been numerous mass extinctions and reset buttons pressed leading to the pre-eminence of mammals which was certainly not inevitable.
That is mostly true but also utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.  (Still, I do note the use of a loaded term "superior form of organization" as well as a claim "which was certainly not inevitable", which is of course nonsense if the universe is deterministic.)

We are clearly not understanding each other.  My view is that it is you who is not understanding what I am telling you, though at least in principle I am willing to accept that it could be me not understanding you.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by DEC1M7 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:44 am

Bogbrush, SB is saying that if everything is a manifestation of natural science, there is no reason that any one outcome is better than another.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:25 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Not at all; evolution has enabled many humans to understand the difference between historical precedent and precision and it might be that this enlightenment can come to form the superior form of organisation. That's evolution, the question is only which force will prove more fit in the future. Circumstances might change (war, natural catastrophe, some form of failure, etc.) and create the environment for a change. 

Evolution does not follow straight lines nor does what worked before work best in the future. There have been numerous mass extinctions and reset buttons pressed leading to the pre-eminence of mammals which was certainly not inevitable.
That is mostly true but also utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.  (Still, I do note the use of a loaded term "superior form of organization" as well as a claim "which was certainly not inevitable", which is of course nonsense if the universe is deterministic.)

We are clearly not understanding each other.  My view is that it is you who is not understanding what I am telling you, though at least in principle I am willing to accept that it could be me not understanding you.
The Universe is not deterministic, randomness forms a big part of outcomes.

I understand you to be saying that whatever happens must have been the best suited, I'm saying that's not entirely true as it depends where you start from. The nerve is a great example of how the giraffe developed the best suited neck for purpose but the nerve is a joke because it can't flip around the artery. Evolution just does the best with what it starts with. A leap to a free society would in my opinion create a sustainable growth model of organisation but it's possibly as hard to get there when everyone is trained from birth to mimic a domesticated rabbit as it is for the nerve to jump around the artery.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:27 am

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!  
Nope, I didn't.

The trick is to realise it's only chemistry. The atoms never changed, just the arrangement.

You keep missing the trick. Dead atoms would never arrange to reproduce. Not even in a trillion years! And unlike what you say atoms constantly change as they are made of multiple sub particles !   It;s like 0 + 0 will never equate 1, yet, you do not see any problem with that in-equation.
Matter is extremely difficult to define. It;s a work in progress. "Lively" matter could lead to life, but not dead one.
Dead atom are always rearranging themselves. Burn hydrogen and you get water because the "dead" Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms combined as H2O. If they can't do this stuff when dead what on Earth happened? Did they come to life?

And so they go, finding arrangements ever more complex until we can have self-replicating ones, and then we're off.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:29 am

Daniel wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:Yeah....but you are still missing the link that turned a rock made of dead atoms into that "enlightenment".

There is a clear flaw in that logic!  
Nope, I didn't.

The trick is to realise it's only chemistry. The atoms never changed, just the arrangement.

Oh, good... it's all explained.    Laugh Doh  I'm glad all these complex debates can be cleared up with one liners.  I was starting to worry that the universe was complicated.
That's your problem. Looking to explain meanings which aren't there is always going to be tricky.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:15 pm

bogbrush wrote:Dead atom are always rearranging themselves. Burn hydrogen and you get water because the "dead" Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms combined as H2O.
But show me how dead atoms can be complex enough to reproduce. That they follow physical law is one thing but does not mean they are dead. Like you and I are under physical laws.

If they can't do this stuff when dead what on Earth happened? Did they come to life?
hehe..this is my very question to you. How can you be dead, yet produce/turn into energy? You will see when you are dead, your are going to get cooler.

I suspect you wish things dead to avoid questions.

And so they go, finding arrangements ever more complex until we can have self-replicating ones, and then we're off.
Again, can you see the flaw in logic in that same sentence?

How can you be dead and "find"..or do anything? You would need to revisit the definition of "dead". A plastic piece of Lego does not look for anything, It does not rearrange itself or reproduce. It does not move and if the atoms constituting it were not alive, it woudl not even decompose over time.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:30 pm

1. Easy. Some molecules have the complexity whereby as more atoms are drawn to form bonds that result in broken away copies. There's nothing intentional about it, it's just chemistry. Just the same as how hydrogen does that think with oxygen. Hard to visualise? You bet, but then if there's billions of years of accidental stuff going on it obviously happens.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128251-300-first-life-the-search-for-the-first-replicator/

2. Easy, you're not dead or alive. Atoms can convert to energy in certain extreme conditons but far more have exothermic reactions without being able to have a conversation (like the wood on a fire).

3. A twig might find itself part of a birds nest but the twig didn't actually think about it. If you'd rather I didn't use the word "find" then I'll use "happened to become because of straightforward chemical processes", but the thought find was easier.
Oh, things that are not alive by your definition decompose over time. Heavy atoms decompose into smaller ones, that's why we have things with "half-lives".

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:58 pm

bogbrush wrote:1. Easy. Some molecules have the complexity whereby as more atoms are drawn to form bonds that result in broken away copies. There's nothing intentional about it, it's just chemistry. Just the same as how hydrogen does that think with oxygen. Hard to visualise? You bet, but then if there's billions of years of accidental stuff going on it obviously happens.
You actually remind me for amri when he purposely refuses to see it as it is.
You simply cannot use the word "easy" when a phenomenon has been observed only once in the universe and happened 4 billion years ago. Any scientific is baffled by what happened here...bar you.

And what is the difference between saying "it's all chemistry" and "it is all about the Holy Spirit". Absolutely none. Just different words but scientific people are still trying to work it out. This is why I find you more religious than any other poster here.

2. Easy, you're not dead or alive. Atoms can convert to energy in certain extreme conditons but far more have exothermic reactions without being able to have a conversation (like the wood on a fire).
But we don't know if at the beginning of the universe energy was there first or matter. Remeber E=MC2 and can work both ways. This in itself is a scientific miracle. You have an invisible force and then it turns into solid "dead or alive" matter.

3. A twig might find itself part of a birds nest but the twig didn't actually think about it. If you'd rather I didn't use the word "find" then I'll use "happened to become because of straightforward chemical processes", but the thought find was easier.
Oh, things that are not alive by your definition decompose over time. Heavy atoms decompose into smaller ones, that's why we have things with "half-lives"
. I am not sure it is a good example. the twig is there cause a bird "found" the twig. In fact you will always find a will/desire (energy) behind anything complex.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Daniel on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:37 pm

Dead atoms may be always be moving about, but they don;t know they are.  And they aren't on a tennis forum debating their own existence.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:57 pm

Daniel wrote:Dead atoms may be always be moving about, but they don;t know they are.  And they aren't on a tennis forum debating their own existence.
When you are dead you can’t move whether you are a man or an atom (a man is a big collection of atoms, don’t forget that).

Simple as that.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:08 pm

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:1. Easy. Some molecules have the complexity whereby as more atoms are drawn to form bonds that result in broken away copies. There's nothing intentional about it, it's just chemistry. Just the same as how hydrogen does that think with oxygen. Hard to visualise? You bet, but then if there's billions of years of accidental stuff going on it obviously happens.
You actually remind me for amri when he purposely refuses to see it as it is.
You simply cannot use the word "easy" when a phenomenon has been observed only once in the universe and happened 4 billion years ago. Any scientific is baffled by what happened here...bar you.

And what is the difference between saying "it's all chemistry" and "it is all about the Holy Spirit". Absolutely none. Just different words but scientific people are still trying to work it out. This is why I find you more religious than any other poster here.

2. Easy, you're not dead or alive. Atoms can convert to energy in certain extreme conditons but far more have exothermic reactions without being able to have a conversation (like the wood on a fire).
But we don't know if at the beginning of the universe energy was there first or matter. Remeber E=MC2 and can work both ways. This in itself is a scientific miracle. You have an invisible force and then it turns into solid "dead or alive" matter.

3. A twig might find itself part of a birds nest but the twig didn't actually think about it. If you'd rather I didn't use the word "find" then I'll use "happened to become because of straightforward chemical processes", but the thought find was easier.
Oh, things that are not alive by your definition decompose over time. Heavy atoms decompose into smaller ones, that's why we have things with "half-lives"
. I am not sure it is a good example. the twig is there cause a bird "found" the twig. In fact you will always find a will/desire (energy) behind anything complex.
You have no idea that it happened once. It might have happened a million times for all you know.

We can see and test chemistry. It’s been a bit harder doing this with the Holy Spirit.

Of course E=MC^2 works both ways that’s why there’s equal signs and not an arrow. It’s not a miracle, we know how and why it works, there’s nothing miraculous about it.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:04 pm

bogbrush wrote:I understand you to be saying that whatever happens must have been the best suited, I'm saying that's not entirely true as it depends where you start from.
Best suited considering everything - including where you start from.  It is pointless to say "this would have been better suited but we cannot get there from where we started from".

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:18 pm

It matters if you’re interested in leaps.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:39 pm

Either you can get from here to there or you cannot. If you cannot then it is pointless to talk about getting there. "Leaps" or no leaps is the same thing - that is all baked into what the rules of physics allow. You would not say "rules of physics do not allow it but I can use leaps to get there".

Anyway, I think we have gone down this particular branch about as far as we can, so I am done for now. In the meantime, Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever it is you guys wish each other over there.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Daniel on Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:22 am

Happy holidays is an insane politically correct statement and people should be shot for using it.  Either they celebrate Christmas, or don't.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:37 am

Daniel wrote:Happy holidays is an insane politically correct statement and people should be shot for using it.  Either they celebrate Christmas, or don't.
Well said! Applause



p.s.
Biblically speaking Christmas is not biblical (neither the date nor the act of celebrating his birthday), but since Christ is:

Merry Christmas!

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:31 am

Yeah, happy Christmas all even if the whole story was pinched from religions of adjoining peoples in order to co-opt them into the manufactured account of Jesus.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:32 am

summerblues wrote:Either you can get from here to there or you cannot.  If you cannot then it is pointless to talk about getting there.  "Leaps" or no leaps is the same thing - that is all baked into what the rules of physics allow.  You would not say "rules of physics do not allow it but I can use leaps to get there".

Anyway, I think we have gone down this particular branch about as far as we can, so I am done for now.  In the meantime, Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever it is you guys wish each other over there.
Ok, not leaps,

How about steps taken from farther back in the tree of development because a branch is found to be unfit for survival?

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:27 pm

Merry Christmans all. Good we can have all those conversations without ripping each others out.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:46 pm

OK,
here we go...

With just about an atom or two spare to type all this after cooking a huge Christmas lunch, drinking three shots of rakija and half a Bollinger:

Merry Christmas all my lovely tennis friends!

Right next to me - my dearest Christmas present (and no I am not into Christmas presents, but when in Rome do as the Romans do...)

and it is:

Roger Federer Autograph Pro-staff. Yes - elegant and gorgeous.

First of all, may I say I love it.

It’s a beautiful racquet to look at and to hold. I can’t wait to swing it.

The one the Maestro designed himself. His last racquet.
The one he played his best tennis with.


When I unwrapped it, it drew tears out of my eyes.

Why?

Because I am

Homo tennisus.


OK.

I survived it.


Now I need an hour or two to sleep off all these crazy calories I have consumed ( Yikes tongueout )


Finally...:

Life is for living!

Every second of it.

Come rain or shine.

Backhand chip or an ace down the T.

Ziveli!  Bubbly



love   love  love

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Tenez on Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:18 pm

Enjoy NITB!

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by Daniel on Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:31 am

bogbrush wrote:Yeah, happy Christmas all even if the whole story was pinched from religions of adjoining peoples in order to co-opt them into the manufactured account of Jesus.

That's really not the point.  If you want to take that line of thought to its conclusion, we'd have no traditions at all.  The modern celebration is entirely Christian in nature, and the people who want to do away with it are the same people who generally welcome in hoards of migrants and tell us how we should all be ashamed of being white.  I've got no time for cultural Marxism and cultural suicide.  So, while I don't believe in any religion, I respect the fact that this is part of our heritage and that Christ teaches a message of love and peace. That's why I celebrate Christmas.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:58 am

Tenez wrote:Enjoy NITB!
I will! Big Grin

May go and hit against the wall at the club this evening if noone is around.

Actually, that would be perfect.

The racquet, wall and NITB in the silence of birds.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:12 pm

Daniel wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Yeah, happy Christmas all even if the whole story was pinched from religions of adjoining peoples in order to co-opt them into the manufactured account of Jesus.

That's really not the point.  If you want to take that line of thought to its conclusion, we'd have no traditions at all.  The modern celebration is entirely Christian in nature, and the people who want to do away with it are the same people who generally welcome in hoards of migrants and tell us how we should all be ashamed of being white.  I've got no time for cultural Marxism and cultural suicide.  So, while I don't believe in any religion, I respect the fact that this is part of our heritage and that Christ teaches a message of love and peace. That's why I celebrate Christmas.
Yeah, celebrate the message of love, peace and effective border controls.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by luvsports! on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:02 pm

This is what a ridiculous feminist on Ch4 looks like after she gets destroyed by JP!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by bogbrush on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:32 pm

That’s hilarious. She holds all the cards, gets to dictate the subject and pace, yet is destroyed so badly that she repeatedly says “so what you’re saying is.....” to twist his words.
But she can’t lay a glove on him.


Last edited by bogbrush on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by luvsports! on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:38 pm

"Ha, gotchya" -  just glorious.

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by summerblues on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:25 am

Hah!  I saw that interview a few days ago.  She was so aggressive while being out of her depth and not even trying to understand what he was saying.

If you do not want to watch all 30 minutes of it, this meme sums up the interview quite nicely:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/336/076/c11.jpg

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

Post by noleisthebest on Mon May 14, 2018 9:34 pm

Tenez wrote:I have been mute on this thread for a while cause I was busy going to a conference. I'll come back to you soon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/41973119/why-do-people-still-think-the-earth-is-flat

So how was it?

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Re: This Is What A Feminist Looks Like

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