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NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

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NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:46 am




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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by summerblues on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:51 am

smiley

Congrats, sir!

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:10 am

summerblues wrote:smiley

Congrats, sir!

Bubbly Bubbly

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:29 am


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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Daniel on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:27 am

And yet doesn't have anywhere near 7 slams at the greatest slam.  The one that takes more ability (beaten 4 times to rank 100s).  And weeks n1... way behind.  Sampras is a better player than Nadal on all surfaces except clay.  That's a fact. Having  greater number of slams because of the FO doesn't do squat to change that.

Plus Sampras never had a draw as easy as that one.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:31 am

Federer and Nadal both had an amazing year- be happy! Bubbly Rose

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by bogbrush on Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:47 am

I think medical science is hard on the legends of the past. We will see all their accomplishments eclipsed because players are able to be repaired and sent back out for many years after they would otherwise have gone. Nadal is a case in point - stem cells, etc. have got him fit & playing whereas 15+ years ago he'd be retired by now.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:40 am

bogbrush wrote:I think medical science is hard on the legends of the past. We will see all their accomplishments eclipsed because players are able to be repaired and sent back out for many years after they would otherwise have gone. Nadal is a case in point - stem cells, etc. have got him fit & playing whereas 15+ years ago he'd be retired by now.

Absolutely agree. Also the mindset of players and level of professionalism. Earlier a lot of players played with no coach, Fed himself went with no coach for many years. Now they hire multiple coaches, fitness trainers, hitting partners, psychologists, hair stylists  .. an entire team of people helping to the cause of their ward's success both in and out of court.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:03 am

It is indeed this new professionalism which makes it much harder for youngsters to be successful earlier in their career, as they don't have the know-how nor the means of those older more successful players.

And again technology being unchanged in the last 17 years does not give the young players a chance to shine early like Djoko and Nadal had while using new strings versus older players who learnt the game with nat gut and smaller frames.

It's all about timing. Still Nadal won too convincingly this USO to find excuses besides the real slow conds and all decent players injured. Nadal's luck has reached new levels.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by legendkillar on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:07 am

Congrats to Nadal for winning a 16th Slam. Hard to imagine that 2010 was the last time Fedal cleaned up the Slams.

As regards to the US Open. Seen some rather insane excuses banded about. Murray being blamed for distorting the draw or the easiest path for Nadal. Let's remember 2 things.

For Murray, timing poor yes, however, given Federer's performances during the tournament there would've been absolutely no guarantee he would've made the final on the other side of the draw. He struggled in the first 2 rounds and getting 2 back to back 5 setters out of your legs so early in the tournament is a tough ask. Especially at 36. Given what I saw of him at Montreal, I can't say I was convinced he would find the form that served him well at Wimbledon.

As for the draw, who really saw the likes of Kyrgios, Dimitrov, Thiem and Zverev bow out so tamely? It's pot luck if anything how the draw unfolded. Yes it was without doubt one of the easiest routes to a Slam victory I've seen since Wimbledon 2003, however that's sport.

Think it was BB or SB (someone with a B in their name) that said this year for Federer was been amazing. I am sure any of his fans given the chance would've bitten my hand off if I offered a Slam victory at the start of the year and he's won 2 this year.

It's been a strange year. More so not because of the Federer and Nadal successes, but seeing so many high profile injuries that has decimated the tour. Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka. Also Raonic and Nishikori. I am finding the autumn will be interesting. I'd like to see how the rest of the field will perform in tournaments, if we will see more journeymen winning the 250/500 events or whether the younger players will finally step up.

Shapovalov has been a revelation this year. Behind Federer's resurgence, I've found him to be the feel good story of the year. Gives tennis fans hope that there is someone who can led the game forward with brilliant and imaginative tennis.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by bogbrush on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:17 am

Pretty much agree across the board there lk, and yes it was me.

Observation of Nadals cupcake run (ah, the old ones....) is completely true and completely not his fault, it just is. It's only "value" is in assessing whether this signals Nadal is back winning Slams off clay. I'd say it proves nothing; extrapolation is the one aspect where assessing the calibre of the opponents does matter, and when a ravaged Del Potro is the only recognisable quasi-threat you can't use this to look forward. I expect Djokovic to come back (but I'm not so sure of Murray) and a fully fit Djokovic would have strolled to the title here.

Shapovalov is the big win this year for sure. Just hope he maintains progress.

A Fedal clean sweep is interesting but deeply troubling for the state of the game. Ok, one each - especially the decima and #8 - would have been a nice curiosity but this is just ridiculous. I said to a friend the other day that if I could be guaranteed that three new young players could start cleaning up I'd happily accept that Federer is stopped at 19.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:20 am

I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by legendkillar on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:31 am

Exactly BB. I don't read much into this Slam (which is a sad indictment in itself) and I think the masses will look back and think "meh" because as you say, what one really draw from this event? Don't think there's ever been such a decimated field at the back end of a Slam in many a day.

I've reached a point now where I am not trying to gauge who will come through and usher a new era, but actually trying to work out when Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka will decline to a point of not challenging at major events on tour. Saying that is madness. Never seen so many false dawns with the young generations in this era than any before.

Like you I'll be intrigued to see how the others fare upon their returns and the impacts the injuries have on their games from here on out. Stan I worry as knee surgery is pretty bad and I wonder for his movement if he'll have to be even more aggressive. Murray and Djokovic I wonder too if they will now have to be more aggressive and economical on court.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by naxroy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:43 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.
 easy, if nadal wins, people say conditions are slow

wimbledon was slow in the first week, then in the quarters we had cilic, berdych, querrey, muller, raonic. nadal fell and no talking about slow conditions for the rest of the tournament

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:53 am

Rotla it was very slow this year. Just watch the first point of yesterday final. It sets the tone for Anderson expectations: a good serve and FH dtl won t be enough. So right from the start he is under pressure to play above his comfy level. Federer called the courts slowish ans Gilbert twits about the courts slower et than last year.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:58 am

naxroy wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.
 easy, if nadal wins, people say conditions are slow

wimbledon was slow in the first week, then in the quarters we had cilic, berdych, querrey, muller, raonic. nadal fell and no talking about slow conditions for the rest of the tournament

Well Naxroy....If Nadal had won 10 Wimby and 2 FOs....then teh argument would be ridiculous, I agree...but that's not quite the case.

Nadal saying the first week at Wimby is toughest cause it is fast, easier teh second week cause it's less skiddy, confirms it, isn't it?

It's one think having a champ making the most of the sluggish conditions, Another one to make your champion look like a king of surface adaptation!

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:07 am

Also just look where he stands on receiving...does he look like someone who can cope with pace?!?!

As McEnroe rightly says, great serve and FH...yet loses the point!


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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

Tenez wrote:Rotla it was very slow this year. Just watch the first point of yesterday final. It sets the tone for Anderson expectations: a good serve and FH dtl won t be enough. So right from the start he is under pressure to play above his comfy level. Federer called the courts slowish ans Gilbert twits about the courts slower et than last year.

Thanks. found the tweet. https://twitter.com/bgtennisnation/status/901914017182224385

Reading some of the tweet responses and it makes me sick.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by gallery play on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:11 am

naxroy wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.
 easy, if nadal wins, people say conditions are slow

wimbledon was slow in the first week, then in the quarters we had cilic, berdych, querrey, muller, raonic. nadal fell and no talking about slow conditions for the rest of the tournament
You know that they did cut the grass a bit on middle sunday? The court actually did play faster after that. Even if it was a fraction, it did help Muller to beat Nadal. 

Let's see how fast the courts are indoors this year. If it is fast and Nadal loses, i'll blame the court speed OK?

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by naxroy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:24 am

I think it is no secret that nadal is better in slow courts, its just funny how in 2007 nadal haters said he would never win wimbledon, once he did they said wimbledon was very slow and that he would never win usopen, and when he did win there (3 times now) its because it is slow too

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by gallery play on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:34 am

naxroy wrote:

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really
So true!

Winking

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:41 am

naxroy wrote:

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really

A good tennis player wouldn't need all that "help", would he?

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:45 am

naxroy wrote:I think it is no secret that nadal is better in slow courts, its just funny how in 2007 nadal haters said he would never win wimbledon, once he did they said wimbledon was very slow and that he would never win usopen, and when he did win there (3 times now) its because it is slow too

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really

What is this nadal harters? Why do all Nadal fans behave as if every non-fanboy is a Nadal hater? No silly, get out of your cocoon. 

Slams are big business and they do try to control results as much as possible. Surface/Playing conditions is totally in their control and hence the first  and easiest target. And in Fedal times, the most effective as well. There has never been a Fedal match at USopen and this year given the playing field available, the chances are most. So what are the options for the TDs to ensure this. 

1) Surface being medium fast: Feds chances of reaching deep into the Slam is way more than Nadal's. Nadal is likely to get blown away by many, we have been seeing it over the years. So Fedal match less likely.

2) Surafce being slow and high bouncing: Fed is still likely to reach deep, he is capable of adjusting. And this almost guarantees Nadal too will reach deep. So Fedal match highly likely.


So what do you think will a TD whose business is to make more money for slams do in this situation?

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:45 am

gallery play wrote:
naxroy wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.
 easy, if nadal wins, people say conditions are slow

wimbledon was slow in the first week, then in the quarters we had cilic, berdych, querrey, muller, raonic. nadal fell and no talking about slow conditions for the rest of the tournament
You know that they did cut the grass a bit on middle sunday? The court actually did play faster after that. Even if it was a fraction, it did help Muller to beat Nadal. 

Let's see how fast the courts are indoors this year. If it is fast and Nadal loses, i'll blame the court speed OK?

In fact my understanding is that they actually cut the grass to 8mm instead of 9mm which made teh court slower and weaker as tehy also deprive it of water for making the soil as hard as baking clay. The problem is this year was particularly hot conds and the grass disappeared very quickly in the first quick. So they actually watered a bit more that middle Sunday to help the grass grow more roots and hold a bit better for the remaining of the week.

Same thing anyway as you rightly said it was slightly faster in that second week (softer soil (watered) means lower bounce).

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:48 am

naxroy wrote:I think it is no secret that nadal is better in slow courts, its just funny how in 2007 nadal haters said he would never win wimbledon, once he did they said wimbledon was very slow and that he would never win usopen, and when he did win there (3 times now) its because it is slow too

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really
I don't think he would have stood a chance on grass as it was known pre 2002. Same with the USO...once again he only won it once they provided bigger balls than the ladies.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by gallery play on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:53 am

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:
naxroy wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I'm not sure about this slow conditions at this USOpen. I didn't find anything which made it look any slower that it had been last 3-4 years. Can someone provide any quote or give any reference of this being discussed.
 easy, if nadal wins, people say conditions are slow

wimbledon was slow in the first week, then in the quarters we had cilic, berdych, querrey, muller, raonic. nadal fell and no talking about slow conditions for the rest of the tournament
You know that they did cut the grass a bit on middle sunday? The court actually did play faster after that. Even if it was a fraction, it did help Muller to beat Nadal. 

Let's see how fast the courts are indoors this year. If it is fast and Nadal loses, i'll blame the court speed OK?

In fact my understanding is that they actually cut the grass to 8mm instead of 9mm which made teh court slower and weaker as tehy also deprive it of water for making the soil as hard as baking clay. The problem is this year was particularly hot conds and the grass disappeared very quickly in the first quick. So they actually watered a bit more that middle Sunday to help the grass grow more roots and hold a bit better for the remaining of the week.

Same thing anyway as you rightly said it was slightly faster in that second week (softer soil (watered) means lower bounce).
You're right.
They watered the grass

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:54 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
naxroy wrote:I think it is no secret that nadal is better in slow courts, its just funny how in 2007 nadal haters said he would never win wimbledon, once he did they said wimbledon was very slow and that he would never win usopen, and when he did win there (3 times now) its because it is slow too

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really

What is this nadal harters? Why do all Nadal fans behave as if every non-fanboy is a Nadal hater? No silly, get out of your cocoon. 

Slams are big business and they do try to control results as much as possible. Surface/Playing conditions is totally in their control and hence the first  and easiest target. And in Fedal times, the most effective as well. There has never been a Fedal match at USopen and this year given the playing field available, the chances are most. So what are the options for the TDs to ensure this. 

1) Surface being medium fast: Feds chances of reaching deep into the Slam is way more than Nadal's. Nadal is likely to get blown away by many, we have been seeing it over the years. So Fedal match less likely.

2) Surafce being slow and high bouncing: Fed is still likely to reach deep, he is capable of adjusting. And this almost guarantees Nadal too will reach deep. So Fedal match highly likely.


So what do you think will a TD whose business is to make more money for slams do in this situation?

Maybe Naxroy thinks that a Anderson v Isner woudl have sold as many tickets as a Fedal final or semi?


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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:54 am

Tenez wrote:Also just look where he stands on receiving...does he look like someone who can cope with pace?!?!

As McEnroe rightly says, great serve and FH...yet loses the point!

But yet tactically it was the right thing to do. Petchey brought out stats and showed Nadal was getting more Anderson's first serves back into play as a percentage than any other player so far this fortnight.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:59 am

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:Also just look where he stands on receiving...does he look like someone who can cope with pace?!?!

As McEnroe rightly says, great serve and FH...yet loses the point!

But yet tactically it was the right thing to do. Petchey brought out stats and showed Nadal was getting more Anderson's first serves back into play as a percentage than any other player so far this fortnight.

Yes it is the right tactic if like Nadal you can compensate for those slower reactions by standing 5m behind and exocet yourself right and left while the speed of the ball is dropping fast...and generate enough energy to make up for it and send a spiny ball back.

Right tactic if one has the energy. But please don't tell us that's "talent" and more don't tell us that the slow conds don't play a role here.

That's really my problem with Nadal's success, not him!

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:08 pm

Few points:

1/ Yes, it's true the surface was slow, but if we cast our minds back to the Aus Open where the surface was quicker, Nadal did play fantastic tennis there too, only denied by Federer red-lining for an extended period at the end. Also there's nothing inherently wrong with slower courts.

2/ The ranking point about Nadal's opponents in the semis and finals needs some context. Yes, no doubt Nadal had an easy run in and this was his easiest win in terms of competition. But both Del Potro and Anderson had their ranking much lower than it should have been due to time missed off tour due to injury. They both missed the Aus Open this year for example. For Anderson he was ranked 10 in 2015 before the injury, and the tennis he played this fortnight was the best of his career, better than when he was ranked number 10. Of course he was still an easy opponent for a slam final, but it's just a bit silly to look at his rank in this circumstance. In a more extreme example, Serena will be low ranked for the first few months of next year, but you wouldn't look at that as a necessarily a negative indicator- rather how she is playing on her return.

3/ I did not notice anyone complaining about Federer's run in at Wimbledon. He faced Dimi (who was easy for Nadal at Aus Open, so can't be hard opponent 6 months later, right?), Berdych who hasn't beaten anyone good in ages, and then a player who broke down and started crying in the final.

4/ Another question for people who dislike Nadal: Who in the French Open or US Open do you feel could have beaten Nadal this year? Lots of talk about the draw, frankly I think the bottom half was weaker than the top half Nadal was in.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:23 pm

DECIMA wrote:Few points:

3/ I did not notice anyone complaining about Federer's run in at Wimbledon. He faced Dimi (who was easy for Nadal at Aus Open, so can't be hard opponent 6 months later, right?), Berdych who hasn't beaten anyone good in ages, and then a player who broke down and started crying in the final.
I agree with your 1 and 2...except I think there is something very wrong with slow conds when it makes it so one sided between a good server and a clay courter.
But that #3 is pure bollocks. No-one said Nadal had it easy with Dimi and Nadal certainly did not make it easy v Dimi at the AO. Fed made it look easy v Dimi though. Fed has a few grass specialists (Dimi, as mentioned, Berdych, pretty good record there, Raonic, and certainly Cilic who unfortunately was injured. yet Fed did not lose a set there.

4/ Another question for people who dislike Nadal: Who in the French Open or US Open do you feel could have beaten Nadal this year? Lots of talk about the draw, frankly I think the bottom half was weaker than the top half Nadal was in. [/quote] fit Djoko, fit Murray and fit Federer. A Nishi on form also..if had nothing to lose.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:30 pm

Tenez wrote:
I agree with your 1 and 2...
Thanks

Tenez wrote:But that #3 is pure bollocks. No-one said Nadal had it easy with Dimi

Actually, Bogbrush did say that.
Berdych is playing considerably worse recently than a few years ago, who has he beaten recently on any surface? No top players at all. Raonic, Nadal also beat in Aus Open, and apparently his draw until the final was easy. In any case, Raonic has not been as good as last year. You say Cilic was injured, well in that case it's still luck for the opponent.
Anyway, I am not trying to criticise Federer. But if Nadal faced Berdych in the semis of a slam, and then a crying broken down Cilic in the final, don't tell me you guys wouldn't have moaned about it as if it was satanic luck. And Raonic and Dimi, Nadal beat in Aus Open, and I can bring out literal quotes from Fed fans on this forum saying Nadal had an easy run in in AO until the final.

Tenez wrote:
4/ Another question for people who dislike Nadal: Who in the French Open or US Open do you feel could have beaten Nadal this year? Lots of talk about the draw, frankly I think the bottom half was weaker than the top half Nadal was in.
fit...,  
No, I'm talking about the draw. People said he had a lucky draw. Apparently so lucky it was rigged according to some. So who playing the USO 2017 as they were could have handled Nadal?

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by naxroy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:48 pm

Tenez wrote:

Maybe Naxroy thinks that a Anderson v Isner woudl have sold as many tickets as a Fedal final or semi?


no I dont think that.

I am just trying to give Nadal credit for what he did.


surfaces are what they are, top 100 is what it is.

Nadal goes on court and earns his money, he has his way, not all have to like it of course. I see that federer is much more natural and elegant tennis, and I love it, but I admire nadal´s aproach too

in the end he managed to get 6 slams offclay beating federer, djokovic, murray, soderling, del potro...

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:58 pm

naxroy wrote:
Tenez wrote:

Maybe Naxroy thinks that a Anderson v Isner woudl have sold as many tickets as a Fedal final or semi?


no I dont think that.

I am just trying to give Nadal credit for what he did.


surfaces are what they are, top 100 is what it is.

Nadal goes on court and earns his money, he has his way, not all have to like it of course. I see that federer is much more natural and elegant tennis, and I love it, but I admire nadal´s aproach too

in the end he managed to get 6 slams offclay beating federer, djokovic, murray, soderling, del potro...

Let's give credit where credit is due: Nadal is very strong physically and has great stamina!

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by legendkillar on Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
naxroy wrote:I think it is no secret that nadal is better in slow courts, its just funny how in 2007 nadal haters said he would never win wimbledon, once he did they said wimbledon was very slow and that he would never win usopen, and when he did win there (3 times now) its because it is slow too

so nadal Empire has power to make tournaments change surface in his favour, to fix draws and to make antidoping controls look the other way
more impressive than being a good tennis player really

What is this nadal harters? Why do all Nadal fans behave as if every non-fanboy is a Nadal hater? No silly, get out of your cocoon. 

Slams are big business and they do try to control results as much as possible. Surface/Playing conditions is totally in their control and hence the first  and easiest target. And in Fedal times, the most effective as well. There has never been a Fedal match at USopen and this year given the playing field available, the chances are most. So what are the options for the TDs to ensure this. 

1) Surface being medium fast: Feds chances of reaching deep into the Slam is way more than Nadal's. Nadal is likely to get blown away by many, we have been seeing it over the years. So Fedal match less likely.

2) Surafce being slow and high bouncing: Fed is still likely to reach deep, he is capable of adjusting. And this almost guarantees Nadal too will reach deep. So Fedal match highly likely.


So what do you think will a TD whose business is to make more money for slams do in this situation?

Maybe Naxroy thinks that a Anderson v Isner woudl have sold as many tickets as a Fedal final or semi?


Wouldn't knock that element of the equation. In the US they dig on home success. Their biggest viewing figures were in 1999 when two Americans were in both singles finals. Of the 5 Federer finals there, which one do you think attracted the most viewers?

I find it interesting that TD's are being heavily criticised for doing too much, when as ROTA said about the magnitude of a Fedal match at the US Open. Why weren't they kept apart in the draw? Bear in mind they've played in the finals of the other 3 GS's. Given where they are in their careers and spectacle that was the AO final this year, would've been a sponsors, tournament and viewers wet dream.

I agree with you about the conditions, some of the tennis was beyond intolerable at times, however the field was so massively depleted I do wonder if a Fedal encounter would've saved the event tbh.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:01 pm

legendkillar wrote:I find it interesting that TD's are being heavily criticised for doing too much, when as ROTA said about the magnitude of a Fedal match at the US Open. Why weren't they kept apart in the draw? Bear in mind they've played in the finals of the other 3 GS's. Given where they are in their careers and spectacle that was the AO final this year, would've been a sponsors, tournament and viewers wet dream.
Clearly having them in the same part of the draw would roughly increase by 4 the chance of finally having a Fedal match at the USO, especially knowing how Nadal and federer were shaky in those pre-USO tournaments.

I also don;t think TDs care who win between Fedal or even Nadal v Kevin (as long as they isn't a big record on the line)...they want the xfactor players, big names to be at the end of the tournament to bring the crowds.

I agree with you about the conditions, some of the tennis was beyond intolerable at times, however the field was so massively depleted I do wonder if a Fedal encounter would've saved the event tbh.
they woudl have made teh most of it...even if Nadal had crushed an injured Fed. As mentioned it's the title of the show that matters, not its result.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by legendkillar on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:09 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:I find it interesting that TD's are being heavily criticised for doing too much, when as ROTA said about the magnitude of a Fedal match at the US Open. Why weren't they kept apart in the draw? Bear in mind they've played in the finals of the other 3 GS's. Given where they are in their careers and spectacle that was the AO final this year, would've been a sponsors, tournament and viewers wet dream.
Clearly having them in the same part of the draw would roughly increase by 4 the chance of finally having a Fedal match at the USO, especially knowing how Nadal and federer were shaky in those pre-USO tournaments.

I also don;t think TDs care who win between Fedal or even Nadal v Kevin (as long as they isn't a big record on the line)...they want the xfactor players, big names to be at the end of the tournament to bring the crowds.

I agree with you about the conditions, some of the tennis was beyond intolerable at times, however the field was so massively depleted I do wonder if a Fedal encounter would've saved the event tbh.
they woudl have made teh most of it...even if Nadal had crushed an injured Fed. As mentioned it's the title of the show that matters, not its result.


It does increase the chances of that encounter, however the grander the stage, the more you can milk from it. No doubt in my mind a Fedal final is more alluring than a Fedal semi-final. You want the biggest players playing for the bigger prizes, hence in my mind the final would be the sure winner. I don't think we'll ever know now.

Yeah they would've the most of it, but I don't think it would've been a tournament saver. It would be sad if the whole event rested on 1 day.

I think this is where the AO deserves enormous credit this year because with a full field, you got the shocks and quite enterprising play. I don't think in their mind they envisaged a final that they got to top it off. It tested all players. The shotmakers, retrievers and S&Vers. It feels sadly the US just went to the most ridiculous extremes.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by legendkillar on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:15 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:Rotla it was very slow this year. Just watch the first point of yesterday final. It sets the tone for Anderson expectations: a good serve and FH dtl won t be enough. So right from the start he is under pressure to play above his comfy level. Federer called the courts slowish ans Gilbert twits about the courts slower et than last year.

Thanks. found the tweet. https://twitter.com/bgtennisnation/status/901914017182224385

Reading some of the tweet responses and it makes me sick.


http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/09/us-open-tourney-director-ashe-court-isnt-slower-other-courts/69153/

Interesting this chap piped up!

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by bogbrush on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:33 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez wrote:
I agree with your 1 and 2...
Thanks

Tenez wrote:But that #3 is pure bollocks. No-one said Nadal had it easy with Dimi

Actually, Bogbrush did say that.
Berdych is playing considerably worse recently than a few years ago, who has he beaten recently on any surface? No top players at all. Raonic, Nadal also beat in Aus Open, and apparently his draw until the final was easy. In any case, Raonic has not been as good as last year. You say Cilic was injured, well in that case it's still luck for the opponent.
Anyway, I am not trying to criticise Federer. But if Nadal faced Berdych in the semis of a slam, and then a crying broken down Cilic in the final, don't tell me you guys wouldn't have moaned about it as if it was satanic luck. And Raonic and Dimi, Nadal beat in Aus Open, and I can bring out literal quotes from Fed fans on this forum saying Nadal had an easy run in in AO until the final.

Tenez wrote:
4/ Another question for people who dislike Nadal: Who in the French Open or US Open do you feel could have beaten Nadal this year? Lots of talk about the draw, frankly I think the bottom half was weaker than the top half Nadal was in.
fit...,  
No, I'm talking about the draw. People said he had a lucky draw. Apparently so lucky it was rigged according to some. So who playing the USO 2017 as they were could have handled Nadal?
Actually I said Dimi would normally be regarded as a plum draw for a semi-final (true) but Nadal made it look hard (also true).

While I'm on, I also said that Federer would have paid good money for his Wimbledon draw (which included Raonic) so I recognised that (even though it was nowhere near as easy as Nadal's staggeringly easy USO) but that we should remember what a brute he got at the Australian, beating 4 top 10 opponents. Nadals AO was pretty easy - which given I recognised Raonic as part of Feds easy W draw is consistent.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:37 pm

bogbrush wrote:

While I'm on, I also said that Federer would have paid good money for his Wimbledon draw

OK fair enough, I must have missed that.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:57 pm

Honestly looking at Fed's Wimbledon 2017 opponents, if Nadal had played those players or their 'hard court specialist' equivalents, I highly doubt he would have lost either. Obviously Cilic would have been dangerous, except if not for him being a crying (and according to Tenez, injured) wreck in the final which probably makes him similar level to big-Kev.
Berdych he would have crushed, Raonic he straight setted at the AO where the conditions suited Rao, Dimitrov was in his quarter but got taken apart by Rublev, who was then in turn taken apart by Nadal.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:59 pm

I don't think having Rao at Wimbledon is easy. Not sure many coudl handle his serve there.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:03 pm

Tenez wrote:I don't think having Rao at Wimbledon is easy. Not sure many coudl handle his serve there.
They did Hawkeye and Rod Laver was playing faster than Centre Court; and Nadal straight setted Raonic in RLA. Fact is Raonic hasn't been very impressive this year, just look at his YTD results, being beaten regularly by players such as Sock and Goffin.
Given Nadal looked has more confidence now than when he faced Milos at AO, and the conditions suited him at AO but wouldn't at USO, I think it would be a pretty big stretch to say Raonic would have had much of a chance against Rafa here.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by garthmarenghi on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:30 pm

I'm disappointed with how the tournament went for my guy Fed, but credit due to Nadal this year. I didn't see him winning any slams, no matter the draw, so kudos to the Mallorcan. 

Both Fed and Rafa have shown their durability this year, while others have fallen to pieces around them. I truly thought Djokovic would find something at some point in the year and turn things around. How wrong I was.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:43 pm

Agree Garth Bubbly

Amazing year for both Federer and Nadal, after last year surely no one could have predicted this. True that the Grand Slam finals weren't very competitive, but next year we will see Djokovic and Murray returning, and I think Shapavalov will hit the big time very soon too.

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:44 pm

DECIMA wrote:
Tenez, did you watch this video? Think it would be good for you to watch Big Grin

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:56 pm

DECIMA wrote:
DECIMA wrote:
Tenez, did you watch this video? Think it would be good for you to watch Big Grin
you want to kill me?

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by DECIMA on Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:05 pm

Tenez wrote:
you want to kill me?
Laugh Thought you would have liked the erm... analysis

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by Tenez on Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:03 pm

About Nadal volleys one thing is interesting is that I never saw him punch a volley long in the corner. They are all drop shot volley or those which go long are those he tries to "contain" or keep in the court due to paced passing.

I have yet to see a serve and volley with a neat volley punch low over the net and deep (beyond the T line at least).

In that clip for instance chosen by a rafa fan as Nadal's 10 best , he does not realise they are all drop volley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlIivyg2BnQ&t=62s

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

Post by naxroy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:16 pm

damn! he wins points in the net, but not in the way tenez aproves...

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Re: NADAL WINS SLAM NUMBER 16, MOVES 2 CLEAR OF THIRD PLACED SAMPRAS

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