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I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

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I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:42 am

Federer mentioned a couple of times recently that ATP points were not spread fairly, with too much benefit for the winner. Here is what he says in his yesterday interview:
RF wrote:Maybe one more thing you could argue is there's too many points on the winner's side. I think the gap between winner and finals and semis and quarters is too great when it comes to the points. Let's say you take the example of a slam, winning is 2000, a quarters is 360. I think the gap is just way too big. Quarters is not a bad result, yet you're looking at the guy who won, looks like you didn't even play the tournament. For me that's a bit too extreme. Maybe we could adjust that a little bit and just make it so it's not so brutally one-sided always that the points are starting from semis in tournaments.

It rewards the winners, and I'm all for that as well in some ways.

So as it stands for slams:
10 for R128
45 for R64
90 for R32
180 for R16
360 for QF
720 for SF
1200 for F
2000 for W

The biggest gaps is between R128 to R64 where one more than quadruple from loss to win.  but otherwise I think it is perfectly normal to double your points with every win..and the later rounds don't even do that.

I think the points should be a reflection of the effort it is to get through rounds and win. If Shapa for instance manages to beat Delpo, Rafa, fit Djoko and Federer in a slam final, the 2000 are bloody well deserved.

Maybe I have that feeling now that the top players (RRunners in particular) are so consistent and tough to beat. I might think differently if like in the 90s matches are decided by one points there and then in a TB on a SVing basis.

But for now the scoring system is pretty much spot on....if anything I think a slam winners is not compensated enough compared to a TMS1000.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by bogbrush on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:47 am

I think he also seemed to suggest the gap between winning a Slam and, say, five 250's was too big.

I think he's wrong but he's always championed the chances of up and coming players to penetrate the rankings.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:57 am

bogbrush wrote:...
I think he's wrong but he's always championed the chances of up and coming players to penetrate the rankings.
Yes and that is a good thing. I rarely disagree with him as he typically has lots of common sense. I just don't think in that occasion it makes sense to change the system.

It can be quite easy to dodge good players and get to a QFs. ....worth already more than ATP250 and as much as ATP500 final.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:27 am

Maybe he is feeling guilty young players can't break through.

Not sure adjusting points distribution will make difference.

Maybe reduce the number of protected seeds in slams, 8 max.


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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:07 pm

I also disagree. The reality is people care about winners so the sport needs to reflect that in the rankings or else the rankings will be out of sync with how people feel about who is the best. Even now, suppose Fed wins the USO but Rafa takes the No 1 on account of playing more tournaments in the fall. Most people would feel Fed was the best player this year irrespective of what the rankings would say.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:10 pm

I remember back to the beeb forum I mentioned a slam was undervalued compared to TMS1000 or WTF. Many disagreed...it's arguable as nothing compares to winning 7 bo5 matches in a row.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Yes, but I'd say the prestige that comes with winning a slam outweighs the points and everything else.

That's all people remember in the end.

Though, a slam should have something else added to it when it comes to year end number one.

It would be stupid for Nadal to end up being number one with only one slam, compared to Fed's two.

Even worse, to be a slamsless number one, like WTA had.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Tenez on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:58 pm

I remember back in the 90s I believe there was 2 crowns...of course ATP number 1 and "world champion" or something like that. The latter was based on big events (slams, masters essentially).

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by summerblues on Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:29 pm

I kind of think it is what it is.  Having a world champion title in addition to the YE #1 would make things confusing for casual observers.

And I can kind of see why ATP does not want to give slams more points than they already have.  ATP controls the tour but not the slams, so they want to use the point system to prop up their tournaments.  Already as it is, smaller tournaments struggle to get enough attention, if they got even fewer points, it would become even harder for them.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Daniel on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:34 pm

The scoring system is near perfect.  I'm not sure tweaking it would make much difference at all.  Fed isn't seeing that 360 points is massive compared to the lower end of the ranking positions. Shapavolov jumped over 300 places or something with around 80 points.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Tenez on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:28 pm

Daniel wrote:The scoring system is near perfect.  I'm not sure tweaking it would make much difference at all.  Fed isn't seeing that 360 points is massive compared to the lower end of the ranking positions. Shapavolov jumped over 300 places or something with around 80 points.
Not quite. 300 places is from beginning of the year maybe. He was around 150 before Montreal.

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Re: I disagree with Federer (scoring system)

Post by Daniel on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:05 pm

http://live-tennis.eu/en/atp-live-ranking

I was hung over and misread the points for the jump haha. It's still a huge jump though.

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