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The US swing

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The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:15 am

They certainly don't waste time. It's

Canada 7th-13th August
Cincinnatti 13th -20th August
Winston Salem 20th - 26th August
US Open 28th August - 10th Sept

With Djokovic & Murray very likely to miss most it all of this it's open season on ranking points in the unspoken race to get the #1.

Surely Federer won't commit to both Masters? He won the sunshine double but then kicked back for a month or two, here he'd only have a week off. Doing Canada alone gives more rest but Cincinnati is a great event for him and there still a week off. I think he'll have his eyes on winning one and then going hard for a 3rd Slam of the year.

What will Nadal do? My guess is probably he'll play both Masters. He might not though - times running out to win more Slams and we're approaching the time where his bust first half often begins to tell.

What's people think? And what would they like to see?

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Re: The US swing

Post by summerblues on Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:04 am

I would like to see Rafa lose his first match in both tournaments and Fed take #1 before the USO.

I think Fed should only play one of the Masters, probably Cincy.

I expect Rafa will play both.  Rafa typically needs to play well in the prep tournaments to do well in the slams, so I expect he will try to do that this year too.  How well he plays in Canada and Cincy will tell us a lot about his chances for YE #1.  If he goes deep in both, I think he will end year at #1 - even if Fed were to take the USO.  I just do not see Fed killing himself in fall week after week, so I think a well playing Rafa will hold him off.

My dream has always been to see - once Rafa, Nole and Andy fade - Fed in the SF of a slam against three youngsters.  In Wimbledon, Fed made the appointment but the youngsters did not.  Would love to see USO SF with Fed, Kyrgios, Dimitrov and maybe Zverev (or perhaps even Shapovalov - dare we dream?).  With Fed taking the title, of course.

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Re: The US swing

Post by gallery play on Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:45 am

Fed should play only Cinci. It's traditionally played under fast conditions and one of his most succesful tournaments. 

The number 1 spot probably means more to Rafa than Fed so he might play both. But it's risky. He virtually didn't miss any noteworthy tournaments  (bar Queens) so the danger is there to burn out at some point. Rafa played great earlier on HC this year but usually less convincing in the second part of the year. It will be hard for him to take titles, but there's a chance he will.

Fed can't give in to any smugness now. There's a great chance for him to win the USO. He has to increase the slam number as much as possible. You just never know with Nadal. Or like SB said: "what if NAdal is a slamcontender till his mid thirties?"

What i would like to see? Fed beating Nadal in the USO final Cool

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Re: The US swing

Post by Daniel on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:37 am

Nadal's record on HC isn't great - and his slam haul stands at 3 on HC his entire career.  It's very very fanciful thinking to suppose he will be challenging for slams at 35 when he hasn't for years away from RG (with the sole exception of US Open 2013). The big favourite for N1 is Federer. As for this year, people are doing what they did with Wimbledon... elevating Nadal based on his ranking - which is nearly entirely made up from clay. Odds are firmly that Nadal gets beaten quite a number of times for the remainder of the year.  Kyrgios will be one to watch - if he can stop getting injured.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Tenez on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:47 am

Nadal could have won another slam and 2 more TMS1000 on HC this year if it was not for Federer!

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Re: The US swing

Post by Daniel on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:57 am

"Could have" is the phrase you need help with, I think.  Also, perhaps an understanding of how science works - since if Federer wasn't there someone else "could have" beaten him - and the draw would have been totally different too (butterfly effect).

The fact remains that Nadal has won one slam off clay since 2010 - and usually always does worse on the faster courts, which the latter part of the season is. AO is a slower court than US. You don't get any points for "could have". Additionally, we're talking about NOW. Not the start of the season.  I deal in facts, so start there.  Thumbs Up

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Re: The US swing

Post by Tenez on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:52 am

Daniel wrote:"Could have" is the phrase you need help with, I think.  Also, perhaps an understanding of how science works - since if Federer wasn't there someone else "could have" beaten him - and the draw would have been totally different too (butterfly effect).

The fact remains that Nadal has won one slam off clay since 2010 - and usually always does worse on the faster courts, which the latter part of the season is. AO is a slower court than US. You don't get any points for "could have". Additionally, we're talking about NOW. Not the start of the season.  I deal in facts, so start there.  Thumbs Up
very insightful as ever.....from the guy who believes federer and Nadal declined 10 years ago!

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:50 pm

No Washington event this year?

I expect Federer to play Cinncy as mentioned above. Good tourney and conditions suit. Expect Nadal to play Toronto/Cinncy. Think he will win Toronto given I expect Djokovic and Murray not to play.

I reckon Djokovic will miss the rest of the season. I think he needs time from the game and it won't be such a big decision for him given the way he has spoken in recent months leads me to believe he will skip the rest of 2017. Murray on the other hand despite his body saying rest up and come back next year will now doubt play the US Open and the back end (to defend those points) and end up in a bigger physical and mental mess.

The US Open this year feel like a touch of fate that not so long after setting the record at Wimbledon that Federer will do the same at NYC. When I look at the rest of the field, I can't pick at on current form who could win 7 matches in a row.

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:52 pm

summerblues wrote:I would like to see Rafa lose his first match in both tournaments and Fed take #1 before the USO.

I think Fed should only play one of the Masters, probably Cincy.

I expect Rafa will play both.  Rafa typically needs to play well in the prep tournaments to do well in the slams, so I expect he will try to do that this year too.  How well he plays in Canada and Cincy will tell us a lot about his chances for YE #1.  If he goes deep in both, I think he will end year at #1 - even if Fed were to take the USO.  I just do not see Fed killing himself in fall week after week, so I think a well playing Rafa will hold him off.

My dream has always been to see - once Rafa, Nole and Andy fade - Fed in the SF of a slam against three youngsters.  In Wimbledon, Fed made the appointment but the youngsters did not.  Would love to see USO SF with Fed, Kyrgios, Dimitrov and maybe Zverev (or perhaps even Shapovalov - dare we dream?).  With Fed taking the title, of course.

Sometime, somewhere, Haddie has just marked your card for death! Winking

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Re: The US swing

Post by Slippy on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Fed - Cincy and US. No point over stretching by including Canada.

Rafa - If I were him I would play Canada, skip Cincy and play the US. Suspect he will play all three though.

Andy - obviously depends how bad his injury is but, at most, he should only play one Masters. 

Novak - again, depends on injury, but perhaps the player who would be less harmed by playing both masters.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Slippy on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:25 pm

I'd like to see new winners of both masters (under 30), preferably beating Fed or Rafa on merit in the finals. I'd then like to see all the big 4 healthy for the US and QFs that include all of them and genuine younger challengers/Stan.

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:22 pm

My brain is not ready for US swing. online2long

It's tough to say much as we don't even know if Nole & Murray are going to play.

Again, draw will be important.

Traditionally, USO have favoured Nadal, so not expecting fast balls unfortunatelly.

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Re: The US swing

Post by summerblues on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:09 am

legendkillar wrote:Sometime, somewhere, Haddie has just marked your card for death! Winking
Haddie knows how I feel about Rafa. I don't think she likes it much, but is reasonably cool about it.

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Re: The US swing

Post by summerblues on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:16 am

In 2013, Nadal swept the US summer HC swing.  His year so far has been best since 2013, and he did quite well on HCs in spring.  He could potentially be very dangerous.  I think this HC swing will give us insight into how likely he is to continue collecting slams in future.  If he bombs, I will be inclined to believe that he is declining and this year's spring may have been a last hurrah.  If he does well I will be much more worried.

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Re: The US swing

Post by summerblues on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:19 am

gallery play wrote:What i would like to see? Fed beating Nadal in the USO final Cool
That would be cool but also worrying.  It would mean that Rafa would have made three slam finals this year.  I would be happier if Rafa lost early and Fed beat someone else in the final.

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Re: The US swing

Post by gallery play on Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:46 am

summerblues wrote:
gallery play wrote:What i would like to see? Fed beating Nadal in the USO final Cool
That would be cool but also worrying.  It would mean that Rafa would have made three slam finals this year.  I would be happier if Rafa lost early and Fed beat someone else in the final.
The AO was much more satisfying than Wimbledon. In fact: i've almost forgotten about Wimbledon 2017. When i think about Wimbledon 2017 the first thing that pops ups is crying Cilic..

That said, ask me again the night before Nadal and Federer are in opposite Semis: i definitly would prefer Nadal to lose Big Grin

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:01 am

summerblues wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Sometime, somewhere, Haddie has just marked your card for death! Winking
Haddie knows how I feel about Rafa.  I don't think she likes it much, but is reasonably cool about it.


I did see that smiley just a gentle rib.

Can you pm her my condolences. I did see on there she mentioned about her husband passing away recently which seems to have got lost amongst another Rafa debate over there.

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:50 am

See Djokovic is almost certain to miss the US Open. Believe a statement is to be released tomorrow.

Murray apparently fighting to be fit. Just sit it out man and recover! Be smart.

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:26 pm

So I see.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/25/novak-djokovic-miss-us-open-elbow-injury-tennis-andy-murray-hip-more-positive-recovery

Murray is a big daft I think, though I see him practicing with his role model near the bottom of the article smiley

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:30 pm

I have to say the picture of Djokovic is amusing. Like someone who has snuck out a crafty fart!

I have to agree Murray is plain daft. He'll be a shell come the US Open.

Federer's chance surely now receiving a much desired boost.

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:04 pm

It's his Stan Laurel look. Now I've said that I'm thinking who could stand in as Ollie.

Murray looking at Canada / Cincy too? He's mental, got to look longer term.

Rumour has it Andy, on a good day, was able to draw an unforced error from the wall as it lost patience Winking

I used to practice with a wall for hours on the end. It's brutal because (i) it never misses, and (ii) it's a net hugging volleyer not a baseliner and you have to cope with fast shot preparation. Its a killer when you feel really good and hit hard groundless. They're back at you before you've finished your stroke. It's only weakness is the put away of a slower, sliced shot.

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:32 pm

legendkillar wrote:See Djokovic is almost certain to miss the US Open. Believe a statement is to be released tomorrow.
Yes, I hope he can come back for AO.

I know I have been hard on him last two years, but I don't want him to retiiiiireeee Wah

legendakillar wrote:
Murray apparently fighting to be fit. Just sit it out man and recover! Be smart.

Well he is either injured or he is not.

If he wants to keep playing, the injury can't be that bad.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:20 pm

Djoko chose Belgrade to come and bark his future.

Most smart serbs replied with: Go to your country (Monaco) and bark from there, you can't show up in a country you don't pay taxes and announce things and expect anyone to give a toss.

Anyway the phantom injury when he can afford best doctors to tell him that ages ago, is dodgy, also baby on the way, maybe rekindles his family love, so back to AO for him, not bad.

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:04 am

Jahu wrote:Djoko chose Belgrade to come and bark his future.

Most smart serbs replied with: Go to your country (Monaco) and bark from there, you can't show up in a country you don't pay taxes and announce things and expect anyone to give a toss.

Anyway the phantom injury when he can afford best doctors to tell him that ages ago, is dodgy, also baby on the way, maybe rekindles his family love, so back to AO for him, not bad.

You really are obsessed with other people's money aren't you...

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:18 am

Obsessed with fake patriots, you know what I mean, you agree with me too, you just can't admit it publicly here  Big Grin

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:24 am

Nole is only half Serbian, maybe even not that.

But when he is at his grittiest best that's when his Serbian gene shines.

Regardless, I hears an interesting quote yesterday that people are not united by genes but by the ideals they follow/share.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:30 am

People are united only by mutual interests, animal instincts and money. 

Idealistic people, mostly have problems with the world, because it's not ideal.

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:33 am

Jahu wrote:People are united only by mutual interests, animal instincts and money. 

Idealistic people, mostly have problems with the world, because it's not ideal.
There is some truth in that.

Except that "idealists" are the ones that are on the right path.
It's good/healthy to question and have problems with this world.


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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:56 am

... wrote:
Jahu wrote:People are united only by mutual interests, animal instincts and money. 

Idealistic people, mostly have problems with the world, because it's not ideal.
There is some truth in that.

Except that "idealists" are the ones that are on the right path.
It's good/healthy to question and have problems with this world.


What is this now, from taxes to spiritual stuff, you doing a Pepe all over me or what?  Laugh

Have a coffee & ratluk, get back to earth  Big Grin

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:52 pm

Is it actually confirmed anywhere that Djokovic is missing the USO? All I see is maybes and coulds.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:54 pm

We have to wait for Djoko's press conf. Should be this week.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:59 pm

Actually its today at 2:30pm, so in 90min UK time.

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:36 pm

Just saw it on BBC.

Doing a Federer, out for all of 2017.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/40725984

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:46 pm

Yeah, probably see how January goes, might quit for good.

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Says he's going to work on aspects of his game.

I'd suggest his tragic volleying for a start but I hope he doesn't deprive us of his hilarious smash.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:54 pm

A selfie video by a tennis court while saying no more tennis this year, what a certified prick he is.

He is done for good, just does not know yet.

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Re: The US swing

Post by legendkillar on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:14 pm

bogbrush wrote:Just saw it on BBC.

Doing a Federer, out for all of 2017.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/40725984


Well it's a sound decision. Glad he is focusing on longevity. Hopefully he'll come back stronger.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:15 pm

So no operation, wants to heal it naturally, this ain't going away in January then.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Daniel on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:54 pm

He'll lose 3740 points, putting him at 2585 (at least 13th in rankings - and likely out of top 16 by year end)

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:32 pm

So, we now have a Federer - Nadal race for number one, who would've thought it this time last year!!!

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:47 pm

God sake, he looks like he lost another 5Kg, under 70kg for sure now!!

Spreading love seems to be best diet to loose weight  Laugh

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Re: The US swing

Post by bogbrush on Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Maybe his aim until 2018 is to trim down for speed, losing all that excess weight.

I understand he's added another celebrity to the coaching team with a focus on diet and conditioning.

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3555508

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 pm

Jahu wrote:God sake, he looks like he lost another 5Kg, under 70kg for sure now!!

Spreading love seems to be best diet to loose weight  Laugh
That's his mum's genes.
He looks healthy.

We don't want him to have fake muscles a la Nadal and Murray.

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Re: The US swing

Post by summerblues on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:02 am

Jahu wrote:He is done for good, just does not know yet.
smiley

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Re: The US swing

Post by Daniel on Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:01 am

... wrote:
Jahu wrote:God sake, he looks like he lost another 5Kg, under 70kg for sure now!!

Spreading love seems to be best diet to loose weight  Laugh
That's his mum's genes.
He looks healthy.

We don't want him to have fake muscles a la Nadal and Murray.

You haven't proven in the slightest that they are "fake muscles" - and by that you mean doping.  I am sure the muscle is actually really made of muscle. Once again I feel it my duty to inform you that time spent in the gym or genetics or both is a much more plausible explanation for muscle size/strength than continuous and habitual doping, which would also have to be religiously covered up by the ATP and many others. On the balance of probability, I have to firmly believe that Murray and Nadal simply put more hours in at the gym and/or have the genetics for showy muscle.  Logic is good when you can use it.  friedegg

Muscle size does not equal "Guilty, Your Honour".  It never has. It never will.  Not even in barmy Muslim countries. And the same goes for hair loss at around age 28 onwards.. or I'd be classed a doper too.  Wah

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:10 am

Daniel wrote:
... wrote:
Jahu wrote:God sake, he looks like he lost another 5Kg, under 70kg for sure now!!
Spreading love seems to be best diet to loose weight  Laugh
That's his mum's genes.
He looks healthy.
We don't want him to have fake muscles a la Nadal and Murray.
You haven't proven in the slightest that they are "fake muscles" - and by that you mean doping.  I am sure the muscle is actually really made of muscle. Once again I feel it my duty to inform you that time spent in the gym or genetics or both is a much more plausible explanation for muscle size/strength than continuous and habitual doping, which would also have to be religiously covered up by the ATP and many others. On the balance of probability, I have to firmly believe that Murray and Nadal simply put more hours in at the gym and/or have the genetics for showy muscle.  Logic is good when you can use it.  friedegg
Muscle size does not equal "Guilty, Your Honour".  It never has. It never will.  Not even in barmy Muslim countries. And the same goes for hair loss at around age 28 onwards.. or I'd be classed a doper too.  Wah
You haven't proven they are not fake either.

Come on, let's see a proof they are not fake.

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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:22 am

How can a muscle be fake? Hormones/proteines help them, dope aint't gonna build muscle mass.

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Re: The US swing

Post by ... on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:19 pm

Jahu wrote:How can a muscle be fake? Hormones/proteines help them, dope aint't gonna build muscle mass.

OK, let me put it in, to you, understandable language:

Real muscles:



Fake muscles:




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Re: The US swing

Post by Jahu on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:22 pm

So you mean Implants?

Could of found a white ass to show it to me smiley

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Re: The US swing

Post by Daniel on Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:47 pm

... wrote:

You haven't proven they are not fake either.

Come on,  let's see a proof they are not fake.

Oh, dear god.  You are pulling a "prove a negative" on me?  It isn't up to me to start proving they aren't.  I am not the one making the claim that they are fake.  YOU are.  The burden of proof is with YOU. When YOU make an accusation, YOU have to prove it.  Otherwise, you are just being libellous and ignorant.

Daniel

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Re: The US swing

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