Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

Latest topics
» The US swing
Today at 5:01 am by Daniel

» ATP 2017 500,250: Rio, Marseille, Delray
Yesterday at 11:38 pm by ...

» Wimbledon Day 12 - Men's Semi
Yesterday at 9:00 pm by bogbrush

» Why are the youngsters struggling?
Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:35 pm by ...

» Nastase Banned Till 2019
Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:36 pm by Jahu

» The doping program joke of the ITF!!!
Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:59 am by legendkillar

» How long can this go on?
Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:31 am by Daniel

» Fight for #1
Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:04 am by summerblues

» Congratulations
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:07 am by ...

July 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
     12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31      

Calendar Calendar

Affiliates
free forum


The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Tenez on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:51 pm

DECIMA wrote:I don't believe Tenez was banned from 606v2 for libel though?
I can't remember what I was banned for...probably used the word "moonballing" too many times.

Tenez

Posts : 16492
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:03 pm

Well, very strange. I pop over here for my 6-monthly visit hoping to find a Dan Evans discussion, only to find 606v2 dominates the conversation.

I'm glad nitb/ellipsis (...) posted that thread. I always wondered what got Tenez and NITB banned. Never did find out. It's a long thread though, so I won't be reading it all.

lk is right - the 606v2 admins had the police on their backs a few times and when you run something on a voluntary basis who wants to spend time being interviewed by the authorities? Easier to just proceed with caution. It's nothing to do with ego or free speech, or even being that worried about getting fined - it's just not wanting the hassle of having to deal with the authorities. Would anyone - over a hobby? 

The free speech argument is a daft one, by the way - if a discussion on the pros and cons of child molesting came up on 606v2 it would be deleted - but no-one would argue that people can't discuss it openly elsewhere - if people were against freedom of speech they would want the discussion banned everywhere.
Is anyone really saying that removing the Athletics section was a move against freedom of speech?

I've banned a few users over there in my time. Not for opinions per se, but sometimes for repeating just one opinion over and over and over and never saying anything else (that's a recent example - not someone on this forum). I've banned Federer fans, Nadal fans, Djoko fans. No Murray fans, but does he really have any?

And I've never handed out a permanent ban to anyone simply for expressing an opinion. What would be he point of that? A forum needs different opinions.

However, I do admit that an opinion such as 'McEnroe is a prick whose wife is a dirty whore' might get a short ban, even though it is just an opinion. And if it was repeated several times then why would anyone want that sort of poster on a forum? Obviously just a hypothetical, but goes to show how opinions aren't necessarily all they are cracked up to be.

Maybe other mods or admins have banned for lesser reasons, who's to say? And maybe they think being a mod/admin is an ego trip. Not for me. Seriously - an anonymous mod on some internet forum. It's hardly something to put on a CV is it? Banning some bloke you've never met is hardly wielding the reigns of power. I dislike having to do it and would rather not have to. Tenez runs this place - he has far more internet power than I do!

Anyway, glad to see Tenez, NITB, Amri and a few others on here - hope everyone is doing well! This place looks pretty active. Good work!

JHM.

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:17 pm

Didn't agree with some of your moderating decisions Julius (lol), but fair play to come on here and write a post when you know on this forum things sometimes get heated and people here will disagree.

Hope you're doing well too Thumbs Up

Anyway, glad to see Tenez, NITB, Amri and a few others on here - hope everyone is doing well! This place looks pretty active. Good work!
I think in its early days when this forum just had Federer fans it was a bit quiet, then I joined and there was obviously more contrasting opinions so it created debate and forum got busier; however nowadays Tenez has managed the incredible skill of pissing off even some of Federer's fanbase to the point I'm not even needed anymore to make this forum heated (and thus entertaining Winking )

DECIMA

Posts : 4190
Join date : 2013-05-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:24 pm

DECIMA wrote:Didn't agree with some of your moderating decisions Julius (lol), but fair play to come on here and write a post when you know on this forum things sometimes get heated and people here will disagree.

I disagreed with some of the other moderating decisions smiley

And I tend to assume everyone disagrees with me!

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Daniel on Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:44 am

Handing on short bans is the same as handing out long bans. The effect is the same and you know it - it restricts what someone can say and stops certain conversations you want outlawing. Tenez is a good example, although I remember he was banned permanently?  But it wouldn't matter if he wasn't.  You ain't getting brownie points for that defence.

Daniel

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Slippy on Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:11 am

Tenez wrote:But to be fair slippy...you don t see much evidence for anything. You dont see Murray as a road runner, you dont see Murray as a defensive player and i m sure you did not see any evidence of doping to any athlete that failed a test.
I invite you to look at any player of the 90s like Henman for instance and compare his frame with Nadal and Murray. The fact they base their games on being fitter than the opposition won t be a proof either I guess. Knowing that some dope (facts), you don t find it strange that Nadal and Murray beat those cheats without cheating?!?  That of course won t be evidence to you cause according to you only a blue tongue would give them away.
Obviously Murray is a defensive player/counterpuncher. No one is going to disagree with that. However, he's obviously clearly also a very good tennis player, which is the reason he's been successful. You make it sound as though he just runs around a lot. 

As for body shape, the question is whether it is possible for someone to be the shape of Murray naturally and have the level of fitness he does. He's clearly an excellent natural runner - see the speed he had when he was 17. My personal view is that it's entirely plausible with the access to the world class fitness trainers he has for him to have achieved the fitness levels he has naturally. Is it possible he's taken shortcuts? Of course it is. However, there's no actual evidence he has done so.

I'm sure there are players who dope in tennis, although it's hard to say how prevalent it is. However, fitness is rarely the determining factor in any tennis match. Doping is not going to turn a guy ranked 200 into a top 10 player. Unlike in cycling, its perfectly plausible to me that clean tennis players could beat dopers.

Slippy

Posts : 160
Join date : 2016-10-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:37 am

Moment that Temp dumbass was made a mod, it went all downhill.

Was banned 50 times by JHM and LF, did not mind it, once that Temp started dishing banns like candies out of nowhere, it sucked.

Got a ban from Temp for LK's opinions, that I was not even involved, hahahaha that was fun.

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Tenez on Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:54 am

Slippy wrote:Obviously Murray is a defensive player/counterpuncher. No one is going to disagree with that. However, he's obviously clearly also a very good tennis player, which is the reason he's been successful. You make it sound as though he just runs around a lot. 
he makes the difference with his running not with his shots. Thy are all good tennis players. The margins are extremely thin at this level. What makes him better is his ability to bring the ball back more than the opposition. The reason why he has a bad record against Djoko and Nadal is that they are better than him at bringing the ball back.

It's very simple.

As for body shape, the question is whether it is possible for someone to be the shape of Murray naturally and have the level of fitness he does. He's clearly an excellent natural runner - see the speed he had when he was 17. My personal view is that it's entirely plausible with the access to the world class fitness trainers he has for him to have achieved the fitness levels he has naturally. Is it possible he's taken shortcuts? Of course it is. However, there's no actual evidence he has done so.
You are hopping so. The truth is that you do not wish to be too curious about it. The facts is he admitted himself putting 7lb (or was it 14lb I can't remember) in the 2 month off season in 2006. It's impossible to grow as much muscles as quickly as that. And all this of course under the surveillance of typical doper specialists that were Gilbert and Johnson. They had the "know how".

Do you know that taking steroids once can give you muscle mass benefiting for 10 years? (Ref: bbc article).

I'm sure there are players who dope in tennis, although it's hard to say how prevalent it is. However, fitness is rarely the determining factor in any tennis match. Doping is not going to turn a guy ranked 200 into a top 10 player. Unlike in cycling, its perfectly plausible to me that clean tennis players could beat dopers.
That shows you don't quite understand the dynamics of the game. Power and stamina not only provides you the chance to get to many more balls, but more importantly it gives you powerful and safe shots. If you don't have that extra power you'd need to have perfectly timed, yet very risky shots (to achieve a similar pace)...and when the ball comes back a lot (versus the 3 road runners), one needs to be extremely talented to have a chance of winning.

Do you understand that the 3 road runners' game is based on taking a minimum of risk, hence why they are/were so consistent? This risk reduction is based on power and stamina: Doping would help tremendously.

Tenez

Posts : 16492
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:48 am

mikeyM1000 wrote:
DECIMA wrote:Didn't agree with some of your moderating decisions Julius (lol), but fair play to come on here and write a post when you know on this forum things sometimes get heated and people here will disagree.

I disagreed with some of the other moderating decisions smiley

And I tend to assume everyone disagrees with me!
The place collapsed once temp started modding. You & laverfan were good, keot it light and sensible even when things got heated by temp brought bias to he whole thing. Worse though was the high handed attitude, rubbing in 'authority' like only a small minded twat can.

i left unbanned, I'd just had enough of it. I've dropped in once or twice to look and it's desolate, there's nothing of being discussed interest there. Pity.

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Veejay on Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:00 pm

mikeyM1000 wrote:Well, very strange. I pop over here for my 6-monthly visit hoping to find a Dan Evans discussion, only to find 606v2 dominates the conversation.

I'm glad nitb/ellipsis (...) posted that thread. I always wondered what got Tenez and NITB banned. Never did find out. It's a long thread though, so I won't be reading it all.

lk is right - the 606v2 admins had the police on their backs a few times and when you run something on a voluntary basis who wants to spend time being interviewed by the authorities? Easier to just proceed with caution. It's nothing to do with ego or free speech, or even being that worried about getting fined - it's just not wanting the hassle of having to deal with the authorities. Would anyone - over a hobby? 

The free speech argument is a daft one, by the way - if a discussion on the pros and cons of child molesting came up on 606v2 it would be deleted - but no-one would argue that people can't discuss it openly elsewhere - if people were against freedom of speech they would want the discussion banned everywhere.
Is anyone really saying that removing the Athletics section was a move against freedom of speech?

I've banned a few users over there in my time. Not for opinions per se, but sometimes for repeating just one opinion over and over and over and never saying anything else (that's a recent example - not someone on this forum). I've banned Federer fans, Nadal fans, Djoko fans. No Murray fans, but does he really have any?

And I've never handed out a permanent ban to anyone simply for expressing an opinion. What would be he point of that? A forum needs different opinions.

However, I do admit that an opinion such as 'McEnroe is a prick whose wife is a dirty whore' might get a short ban, even though it is just an opinion. And if it was repeated several times then why would anyone want that sort of poster on a forum? Obviously just a hypothetical, but goes to show how opinions aren't necessarily all they are cracked up to be.

Maybe other mods or admins have banned for lesser reasons, who's to say? And maybe they think being a mod/admin is an ego trip. Not for me. Seriously - an anonymous mod on some internet forum. It's hardly something to put on a CV is it? Banning some bloke you've never met is hardly wielding the reigns of power. I dislike having to do it and would rather not have to. Tenez runs this place - he has far more internet power than I do!

Anyway, glad to see Tenez, NITB, Amri and a few others on here - hope everyone is doing well! This place looks pretty active. Good work!

JHM.
for people having some opinions? Laugh
sorry but I find that very hard to believe..
so why doesn't other forums ( like this one for instance) have the police on their backs??
we are pretty much saying the same things here as we were saying on v2
the only way the police could be involved is if there is a complaint..ie some nadal fan who couldn't stand hearing about the peurto and galgo cases so they ran off to the police and made a complaint,much like people who run off to Ofcom to complain when they don't like seeing something on tv,when they can simply just change the channel

so to me it goes back to the tyrant moderators who thought that they could sensor what people were saying because they simply couldn't handle hearing it or didn't want to offend some snitch

Veejay

Posts : 3377
Join date : 2012-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:14 pm

No, not for having opinions, obviously. For other stuff that was said, which did lead to complaints. Not on the tennis section, but tennis isn't the only sport with doping issues or posters posting stuff which can potentially get the site into trouble.

If you've spent the afternoon in 'discussion' with the authorities, incurring legal fees, you're probably not going to want to go through it again, so will set some guidelines up - which will apply across all sections, just to make it easier to run. If that upsets a few people, then tough, they can be upset, or come here, which is then fine for everyone. I don't see the problem.

Why 606v2, why THASP, not here - I guess because more people look at those sites, so they are at greater risk. But even the THASP bloke gave in, in the end, from what I can see.

What about that Dan Evans though, eh?  What a twat.

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Veejay on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:36 pm

mikeyM1000 wrote:No, not for having opinions, obviously. For other stuff that was said, which did lead to complaints. Not on the tennis section, but tennis isn't the only sport with doping issues or posters posting stuff which can potentially get the site into trouble.

If you've spent the afternoon in 'discussion' with the authorities, incurring legal fees, you're probably not going to want to go through it again, so will set some guidelines up - which will apply across all sections, just to make it easier to run. If that upsets a few people, then tough, they can be upset, or come here, which is then fine for everyone. I don't see the problem.

Why 606v2, why THASP, not here - I guess because more people look at those sites, so they are at greater risk. But even the THASP bloke gave in, in the end, from what I can see.

What about that Dan Evans though, eh?  What a twat.
so what is this "other stuff that was said"
as I said in my previous comment,the majority of people who have been banned from there for voicing their opinions ( like myself) have just been voicing the exact same opinions over here
and in all the years that this forum has been going,i don't believe ( tenez correct me if I am wrong) that there has ever been a threat or complaint by the police or any other form of authority for what is being said over here
so if that's the case,then for what reason was v2 banning people in the first place?
if they aren't getting the forum into trouble here for what they were saying,then how on earth were they getting v2 into trouble for what they were saying over there?
I personally think that your comment is just an excuse and I'm struggling to believe it based on the reasons above
I believe the moderators on v2 were banning people because they didn't like what was being said and because they wanted to sensor what people were writing
you can go onto youtube,or bleacher report etc and call nadal a doper,where is the police or legal action there?
THASP blog is slightly different cause it was an article that was written,which is no different then writing an article in a newspaper and we all know newspapers can be sued for libel or defamation of character
but even though the THASP may possibly have been threaten with legal action,the blog STILL continued in spite of it,you should go an read all the comments made there even after the article was removed,nothing changed,if anything even more accusations were being made
the guy who ran the blog just got to the point of being tired of trying to expose or talk about a problem that no one in the sporting world really wanted to address
he got tired of fighting the fight when no one else really seemed to care
his decision to move onto better things to do with his time was not a result because of being threatened by anyone
and frankly I don't blame him,there is more to life so let him go and live it

Veejay

Posts : 3377
Join date : 2012-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:45 pm

So 606v2 Tennis failed cause of JHM.

1. He made Temp a mod, to get some rest from modding, understandable.
2. Temp ruined the whole section with his/her lack of brain.
3. JHM too tired to intervene.
4. Posters started to leave or get banned.
5. JHM demotes Temp.
6. Tennis section fails to resurrect.
7. JHM come here to post and hides behind libel stuff.
8. JHM looking to be a mod now here with Evans engagement  Laugh

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:51 pm

Jahu wrote:So 606v2 Tennis failed cause of JHM.

1. He made Temp a mod, to get some rest from modding, understandable.
2. Temp ruined the whole section with his/her lack of brain.
3. JHM too tired to intervene.
4. Posters started to leave or get banned.
5. JHM demotes Temp.
6. Tennis section fails to resurrect.
7. JHM come here to post and hides behind libel stuff.
8. JHM looking to be a mod now here with Evans engagement  Laugh

Thumbs Up

Number 1 isn't true Winking

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:52 pm

Veejay wrote:...there is more to life so let him go and live it

We agree on that!

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:53 pm

Made him/allowed it same, you had power to disallow him being a mod, come on, you're the boss in that section. 

Anyway history. I'm gonna ban you now  Run

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:01 pm

No, I didn't have that power. Admins are the bosses.

Now you can ban me.

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:02 pm

Nah, you're a senior citizen, respect, that's why I did not mind your bans of LF's.

Enjoy smiley

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:10 pm

I did genuinely expect some sort of discussion on Dan Evans on here. Might have been interesting.

mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by ... on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:13 pm

mikeyM1000 wrote:I did genuinely expect some sort of discussion on Dan Evans on here. Might have been interesting.
Start a thread, make yourself at home.  chef

...

Posts : 24344
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Veejay on Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:26 pm

mikeyM1000 wrote:
Veejay wrote:...there is more to life so let him go and live it

We agree on that!
precisely which is the reason why I will never buy someone claiming that the police were sitting around reading comments on v2 all day long for months on end just to make sure that no one was saying libelous things
they have far more important and better things to do
the only way the police may have gotten involved is if someone made a complaint or reported something,but even then I still find it hard to believe that they would waste their time with someones "libelous" comments
the only way the police usually involved with what goes on online is if there is a genuine and serious threat being made to a person
so I guess youre not going to tell us what this other stuff was that you were referring to

as for dan evans...he did something that hundreds and thousands of people living in london do every single weekend,something many working in the city do daily
does that make it right,no but its no big deal cause it would be hypocritical to use him as some kind of scape goat that many many many people do the same thing for recreation
he wasn't cheating his way to winning titles by snorting cocaine,but at the same time the sport cant be seen going lenient to illegal drug use
if anyone one of us were caught possessing the drug or were caught in the act of using it,then we would have to face the consequences so it should be no different for him

Veejay

Posts : 3377
Join date : 2012-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Daniel on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:11 pm

He's an idiot, and so are the people I know in my circle of friends that do it.  But it isn't performance enhancing and is a non story. Craig Charles, from Red Dwarf, is as sound as a pound... and he was snorting about that much too.

Daniel

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Veejay on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:43 pm

Jahu wrote:So 606v2 Tennis failed cause of JHM.

1. He made Temp a mod, to get some rest from modding, understandable.
2. Temp ruined the whole section with his/her lack of brain.
3. JHM too tired to intervene.
4. Posters started to leave or get banned.
5. JHM demotes Temp.
6. Tennis section fails to resurrect.
7. JHM come here to post and hides behind libel stuff.
8. JHM looking to be a mod now here with Evans engagement  Laugh
Big Grin

Veejay

Posts : 3377
Join date : 2012-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by mikeyM1000 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:45 pm

Veejay wrote:
mikeyM1000 wrote:
Veejay wrote:...there is more to life so let him go and live it

We agree on that!
precisely which is the reason why I will never buy someone claiming that the police were sitting around reading comments on v2 all day long for months on end just to make sure that no one was saying libelous things
they have far more important and better things to do
the only way the police may have gotten involved is if someone made a complaint or reported something

Yes, exactly.


mikeyM1000

Posts : 231
Join date : 2012-08-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Emancipator on Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:42 pm

mikeyM1000 wrote:
Jahu wrote:So 606v2 Tennis failed cause of JHM.

1. He made Temp a mod, to get some rest from modding, understandable.
2. Temp ruined the whole section with his/her lack of brain.
3. JHM too tired to intervene.
4. Posters started to leave or get banned.
5. JHM demotes Temp.
6. Tennis section fails to resurrect.
7. JHM come here to post and hides behind libel stuff.
8. JHM looking to be a mod now here with Evans engagement  Laugh

Thumbs Up

Number 1 isn't true Winking

Temp is such a wet blanket - he's still trying to moderate the forum even though he's no longer a moderator. He smothers even the hint of interesting debate; expects us all to hold hands and sing lullabies .

Anyway, I can proudly say that I was never banned (not even for a day) despite my many heated exchanges.

ghost

Emancipator

Emancipator

Posts : 568
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by gallery play on Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:37 am

mikeyM1000 wrote:Well, very strange. I pop over here for my 6-monthly visit hoping to find a Dan Evans discussion, only to find 606v2 dominates the conversation.
Good one, sounds totally implausible tough...

Just admit you're hooked on OTF Big Grin

gallery play

Posts : 2119
Join date : 2012-09-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Daniel on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:11 pm

More likely someone went to him and told him 606v2 was being slagged off.

Daniel

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Slippy on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:51 am

Tenez wrote:
Slippy wrote:Obviously Murray is a defensive player/counterpuncher. No one is going to disagree with that. However, he's obviously clearly also a very good tennis player, which is the reason he's been successful. You make it sound as though he just runs around a lot. 
he makes the difference with his running not with his shots. Thy are all good tennis players. The margins are extremely thin at this level. What makes him better is his ability to bring the ball back more than the opposition. The reason why he has a bad record against Djoko and Nadal is that they are better than him at bringing the ball back.

It's very simple.

As for body shape, the question is whether it is possible for someone to be the shape of Murray naturally and have the level of fitness he does. He's clearly an excellent natural runner - see the speed he had when he was 17. My personal view is that it's entirely plausible with the access to the world class fitness trainers he has for him to have achieved the fitness levels he has naturally. Is it possible he's taken shortcuts? Of course it is. However, there's no actual evidence he has done so.
You are hopping so. The truth is that you do not wish to be too curious about it. The facts is he admitted himself putting 7lb (or was it 14lb I can't remember) in the 2 month off season in 2006. It's impossible to grow as much muscles as quickly as that. And all this of course under the surveillance of typical doper specialists that were Gilbert and Johnson. They had the "know how".

Do you know that taking steroids once can give you muscle mass benefiting for 10 years? (Ref: bbc article).

I'm sure there are players who dope in tennis, although it's hard to say how prevalent it is. However, fitness is rarely the determining factor in any tennis match. Doping is not going to turn a guy ranked 200 into a top 10 player. Unlike in cycling, its perfectly plausible to me that clean tennis players could beat dopers.
That shows you don't quite understand the dynamics of the game. Power and stamina not only provides you the chance to get to many more balls, but more importantly it gives you powerful and safe shots. If you don't have that extra power you'd need to have perfectly timed, yet very risky shots (to achieve a similar pace)...and when the ball comes back a lot (versus the 3 road runners), one needs to be extremely talented to have a chance of winning.

Do you understand that the 3 road runners' game is based on taking a minimum of risk, hence why they are/were so consistent? This risk reduction is based on power and stamina: Doping would help tremendously.
He makes the difference with his all round game. Look at his current results. He is moving as well as ever but his serve and groudstrokes have not been as solid as usual, hence he is losing some matches. You severely overrate the impact of fitness. The big four have consistently dominated the rest because they are better tennis players. Murray loses to Nadal because Rafa is better than him. It's only in Djokovic v Murray matches that fitness sometimes comes into it, where Murray's fitness often isn't good enough. 

Do you have a link that shows how much muscle Murray put on under Gilbert and any report or evidence that it's impossible to put on that amount naturally? If Murray's success is due to fitness then why have his previous coaches and fitness trainers not been able to come close to replicating his success with another player since? It should be easy to do if fitness is the only factor. 

The reality is that you don't have a clue whether any of the top guys are doping. I acknowledge that it's perfectly possible that they could be doping but we simply don't know or have any actual evidence to support that theory. Of course, even if in 20 years time nothing has come out about any of them, you'll still insist it's all a cover up.

Slippy

Posts : 160
Join date : 2016-10-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by ... on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:01 pm

Murray does not have an all round game, he is an exclusive baseliner and not an exciting one - he is not a shotmaker.

He is a born pusher and now and then forces himself to "attack", usually in TBs.

The reason his groundstrokes weren't good recently was his injury and lack of practice.

Google Murray and 6 pounds of muscle and you'll find the info if you are interested.

His main strength is not his shot variety, it's his endurance and muscle.

He muscles the ball a lot. If you play the game you'll know the difference.

That requires a lot of energy and the fact he can do it for hours says everything.

There are tens of more attractive players to watch than Murray, I forgive only the Scots. Big Grin

...

Posts : 24344
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:35 pm

As a person I quite like Murray, and the oddball on-court antics entertain me. So as a guy I'd tend towards favoring him.

However I really can't find anything to watch with his tennis. It's awful to my eyes.

I know it's a bit predictable, but this is what I'll pay to watch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCSxjaEhTU

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Tenez on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:08 pm

bogbrush wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCSxjaEhTU
Amazing how some pundits were seriously comparing the talents between Fed and Murray. It's 2 worlds apart.

Tenez

Posts : 16492
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Emancipator on Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:03 pm

Another nail in the coffin for Nadal?

Djokovic is surely out of the running now - 7 behind - too far

But it can still change very quickly and if Nadal were to win the USO we'd be as you were at the start of the season, except Rafa would've proven that he can win outside of clay again.. and with more than four years less on the clock, you never know..

Certainly, Nadal will be a big threat at the USO, where we know he can play at a very high level.

Emancipator

Posts : 568
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:01 pm

Oh Eman, way to put a dampener on a most glorious day! Laugh

I prefer to look forward to #6 / #20 in a few months.

( but in truth, until he finally retires I'll keep being wary of Nadal)

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by HM Murdoch on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:03 pm

Emancipator wrote:and with more than four years less on the clock, you never know..
I don't think Nadal's slam-winning clock will go up to age 35.

If he reels Fed in, he probably needs to do it in the next couple of years.

HM Murdoch

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Emancipator on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:10 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
Emancipator wrote:and with more than four years less on the clock, you never know..
I don't think Nadal's slam-winning clock will go up to age 35.

If he reels Fed in, he probably needs to do it in the next couple of years.

Haha, most probably, but you never know. 

It will take something spectacular for Rafa to catch Fed now.. but he can be quite spectacular when he gets going.

Emancipator

Posts : 568
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:15 pm

Unless Zverev or Thiem buck up in the next year or so there's still going to be 7/8 Slams to share amongst the usual four, Stan permitting.

Federer might just need another to really tie it up. Can't believe I'm saying that when he was on 17 only 8 months ago.

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:17 pm

So we are back at the real old/new Top 4 again in 2017!

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by HM Murdoch on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:35 pm

I think we are back to the even older Big 2!

Murray and Novak combined have one slam SF between them this year and no title higher than a 250.

HM Murdoch

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Daniel on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:36 pm

I don't think so.  What Federer is doing is not normal - and I guarantee you that Murray, Nadal and Djok won't be winning much in their 30s.  There is already signs that Djok and Murray are well on their way out.  Nadal hasn't won a non clay Slam since 2013.

Daniel

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Yo yo HMM, welcome, how you been  Big Grin

As you know Djoko sucks, but at least some of his fans are good  Laugh

Keep it up smiley

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Well not according to the BBC. Just look at this crap: 

"Federer surpasses Pete Sampras and William Renshaw, who won their seventh titles in 2000 and 1889 respectively, with only Martina Navratilova still ahead in terms of Wimbledon singles titles on nine.
He has won two of the three Grand Slam titles so far this year, having returned from a six-month break to win the Australian Open in January.
With 19 major titles he extends his lead over Rafael Nadal in the men's game to four, and now stands joint-fourth on the all-time list with Helen Wills Moody, five behind Margaret Court on 24."


When will they give this ramping of women's tennis a rest? They sound like Andy Murray on a bad day when his Mum's scripted his interviews. The Oestrogen event doesn't count, we're taking about PROPER Slams!!


Last edited by bogbrush on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:41 pm

Andy has ruined Male Tennis, now tennis records are joined with Female's.

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Daniel on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:41 pm

It's their usual Marxist 3rd wave feminist claptrap...  and it makes them look stupider than a Democrat voter, because people are going to continually keep correcting them and laughing at it...  you can get away with lying and peddling an agenda when it isn't so obviously wrong. Even the vast majority of women are not going to accept this silly narrative.  If anything, it just makes people ask why there are separate events haha.

Daniel

Posts : 2769
Join date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:42 pm

3 day news, will be forgotten by Montreal.

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by HM Murdoch on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:49 pm

Jahu wrote:Yo yo HMM, welcome, how you been  Big Grin

As you know Djoko sucks, but at least some of his fans are good  Laugh

Keep it up smiley
I'm very well, thanks.

Djoko winning RG16 was a big enough relief that my emotional investment in him waned and I can behave in a manner much more akin to a normal human being.

I still like the guy but he really has to stop that silly "throwing love to the crowd" celebration.

HM Murdoch

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:51 pm

Yeah RG was all he wanted since 2011, he got it, in the end he fulfilled his dreams.

On the other side, problems left and right, from tennis to family, let's see will he wake up by AO and kick that idiotic guru.

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Emancipator on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:02 pm

The BBC LGBTXYZ/intersex/non-binary/confused-weirdo bullshit agenda is even worse. The number of articles, reports, videos pushing this very political, and in my view, disturbing trend where suddenly gender has become a 'fluid' thing is ridiculous. 

Real story. I had to interact with the following person the other day at work. 16 years old, built like a rugby player, around 6ft tall, with a receding (Norwood 3) hairline, dressed like a drag queen in a mini skirt and with huge (presumably cosmetic) breasts. Looked fucking ridiculous - like something from the twilight zone. Came in with his Dad - and told me his name was 'Amy'.

I asked him if he was transitioning..

What I really wanted to say was: 'give it up son, you're never gonna pass for a women'.

Emancipator

Posts : 568
Join date : 2013-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Jahu on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:05 pm

Should of told his dad to give up on him, son already gave up his normal life in this world.

It's all internet's fault I swear.

Jahu

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2016-02-23
Location : Egg am Faaker See

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by bogbrush on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:10 pm

Jesus, tell he about it.

In this debate I'm always baffled by two things;

1. If trans people are prepared to claim they have a catastrophic defect where their entire body is the wrong sex, why is it so hard to contemplate that they might have a simple brain disorder?

2. Why are the people claiming trans people really are trapped in the wrong body the same people who will tell us that gender is a social construct and the only reason boys & girls behave differently is social formation?

I can pass a happy few hours screwing with SJW idiots this way. They usually freak out and end up resorting to the normal stuff (accusing me if being some form of "phobe"). Always know I've won then.

bogbrush

Posts : 833
Join date : 2015-03-30

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Tenez on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Emancipator wrote:The BBC LGBTXYZ/intersex/non-binary/confused-weirdo bullshit agenda is even worse. The number of articles, reports, videos pushing this very political, and in my view, disturbing trend where suddenly gender has become a 'fluid' thing is ridiculous. 

Real story. I had to interact with the following person the other day at work. 16 years old, built like a rugby player, around 6ft tall, with a receding (Norwood 3) hairline, dressed like a drag queen in a mini skirt and with huge (presumably cosmetic) breasts. Looked fucking ridiculous - like something from the twilight zone. Came in with his Dad - and told me his name was 'Amy'.

I asked him if he was transitioning..

What I really wanted to say was: 'give it up son, you're never gonna pass for a women'.
lol.

Tenez

Posts : 16492
Join date : 2012-06-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The GOAT conversation will reboot...

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum