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ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 3:56 pm

He even waxed his chest!!!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 3:58 pm

... wrote:Nadal is very beatable.
Nole os shocking.
Nole is shocking, but Nadal is better than you are imagining.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:00 pm

summerblues wrote:
... wrote:Nadal is very beatable.
Nole os shocking.
Nole is shocking, but Nadal is better than you are imagining.
In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:03 pm

I can't believe what two losers Nole is keeping in his box.
The guru won all of 3 atp matches in his "rich" career, and his pathetic brother not even that...please tell me this is a baaad dream!!!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:04 pm

From hero to zero in 12 short months. Impressive.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:05 pm

summerblues wrote:From hero to zero in 12 short months.  Impressive.

I can't wait for the book.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by luvsports! on Sat May 13, 2017 4:06 pm

Well he is using that style well isn't he?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:07 pm

... wrote:In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.
He is making far fewer errors than he was making just a couple of months ago.  Also hits deeper and with more power than most of the last two years.

The safe old game won him 14 slams.  He does not need to do anything much different than that; he just needs to get back to playing it the way he used to.  And he is getting close to that now.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:08 pm

luvsports! wrote:Well he is using that style well isn't he?
Exactly.

Unfortunately.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:09 pm

summerblues wrote:
... wrote:In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.
He is making far fewer errors than he was making just a couple of months ago.  Also hits deeper and with more power than most of the last two years.

The safe old game won him 14 slams.  He does not need to do anything much different than that; he just needs to get back to playing it the way he used to.  And he is getting close to that now.
To me he is the same, no problem for Nole of last year.

You are underestimating how bad Nole is atm.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:11 pm

The nature of Nole's UEs also shows he hasn't been working that hard.

All in all, definitely his most embarrassing edition.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:13 pm

... wrote:To me he is the same,  no problem for Nole of last year.

You are underestimating how bad Nole is atm.
Tennis is not 100m sprint, so not directly measurable which one of us is correct so I think we will have to agree to disagree.  Rafa does look better to me than he did most of the last two years.  I do agree that Nole of last year would still beat him.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:15 pm

Nadal's balls are all safe, percentage shots.
How many does he need to win a point?

No, nothing has changed, I am afraid.

Nole on the other hand, can't even return serves, spraying easy basic ground strokes.

I can't believe my eyes...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:18 pm

And here comes the break back!

See what I mean? Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:19 pm

Finally! One good game from Nole. More of this please.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:21 pm

Has he hit a first serve in the whole match!!!? Angry

And now the double fault....like he is learning to play all over again!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:21 pm

... wrote:Nadal's balls are all safe, percentage shots.
But Nadal's shots were always safe, percentage shots.  In 2015-16 when he was not playing well, but also in the years when he was excellent.  So just saying his shots are safe is meaningless.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:24 pm

summerblues wrote:
... wrote:Nadal's balls are all safe, percentage shots.
But Nadal's shots were always safe, percentage shots.  In 2015-16 when he was not playing well, but also in the years when he was excellent.  So just saying his shots are safe is meaningless.

All I am saying he is playing the same game.

Nole's one has gone down the pan.

And I still think Fed would beat Nadal today.

Look how even a scared, tragic Nole can break him.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:28 pm

... wrote:All I am saying he is playing the same game.
Oh no question he is playing the same game. All I am saying is that the execution is better than it has been the last couple of years.

I agree Nole playing well would still beat this Rafa - quite easily probably. Nole at his best was better than Rafa at his best, and this Rafa is still not quite back to his very best.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:31 pm

I am not too bothered with Nadal winning.
He's worked like a dog and is facing zero opposition.

I just can't get my head round Nole's personal tragedy and this amazing & shocking downfall.

Should be a lesson to all.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Nole's volleys are of the super senior club level...

Why is he so scared?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:37 pm

... wrote:I am not too bothered with Nadal winning.
He's worked like a dog and is facing zero opposition.

I just can't get my head round Nole's personal tragedy and this amazing & shocking downfall.

Should be a lesson to all.
That is just the opposite of where I stand. I am not too bothered with Nole's downfall, just can't take Rafa winning.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:39 pm

I wonder why exactly his game collapsed so much.  He is not the first one to have done it - Wilander collapsed even quicker than that - but it is hard to fathom nonetheless.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:39 pm

summerblues wrote:
... wrote:I am not too bothered with Nadal winning.
He's worked like a dog and is facing zero opposition.

I just can't get my head round Nole's personal tragedy and this amazing & shocking downfall.

Should be a lesson to all.
That is just the opposite of where I stand.  I am not too bothered with Nole's downfall, just can't take Rafa winning.

Yes, I know you are a numbers and stats man...I on the other hand am upset to see a countryman or even a fellowman fall into hands of satan.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

I think deep down, even Nadal can't believe the shell across the net.

Indeed, scary how quickly ine can self-destruct!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:42 pm

Hands of Satan?  I would not wish that even on Nole.  I am sure Mr. Pepe is loopy, but Satan?  Also, Nole has himself to blame for keeping that kind of company.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:43 pm

summerblues wrote:Hands of Satan?  I would not wish that even on Nole.  I am sure Mr. Pepe is loopy, but Satan?  Also, Nole has himself to blame for keeping that kind of company.

Absolutely.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 4:46 pm

... wrote:
summerblues wrote:Hands of Satan?  I would not wish that even on Nole.  I am sure Mr. Pepe is loopy, but Satan?  Also, Nole has himself to blame for keeping that kind of company.

Absolutely.
How did the two of them even strike their relationship?  Have they known each other long?  Have they always been friends?  Or is it something that just came out of nowhere?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:48 pm

summerblues wrote:
... wrote:
summerblues wrote:Hands of Satan?  I would not wish that even on Nole.  I am sure Mr. Pepe is loopy, but Satan?  Also, Nole has himself to blame for keeping that kind of company.

Absolutely.
How did the two of them even strike their relationship?  Have they known each other long?  Have they always been friends?  Or is it something that just came out of nowhere?

It's a long story and not a nice one at that.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sat May 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Nadal's so used to losing to Nole he can't even serve the match out...e, moj Nole...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by luvsports! on Sat May 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Rafa stretching ahead in the race now/

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 5:00 pm

Oh well. That does not bode well for RG.

Nole and Andy totally out of form.  Nishi with injury issues, Stan playing poorly too (though he can perhaps hit a purple patch again?).

And Rafa has already shown that he can easily beat the second tier (guys like Goffin or Thiem or Zverev).

Is Fed the biggest threat to Rafa at RG?  I would love to see Fed beat him there, but I suspect that would be a bridge too far.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 5:04 pm

luvsports! wrote:Rafa stretching ahead in the race now/
Yeah, but that is somewhat misleading.  He played more than Fed, and clay court is his best surface.  If Fed were to keep his form from AO/IW/Miami for the rest of the year, I would expect him to finish comfortably ahead of Rafa at YE.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 5:15 pm

Jahu, you got your result today! Tomorrow we can both root against Rafa.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Veejay on Sat May 13, 2017 5:32 pm

i thin that Djokovic's dominance on the game is up,sure we could still see him win a few big titles but I don't think that even with a new coach,that he would come back and be the player to beat
just leaves me to question his success and the truth behind it

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Jahu on Sat May 13, 2017 6:48 pm

summerblues wrote:Jahu, you got your result today!  Tomorrow we can both root against Rafa.

Hope Thiem can kick some ass, but I doubt, he is scared a little, still a mommy boy.

Good to see Djoko crushed, he should quit tennis, said tennis is not his priority anymore, don't know wtf is he doing on tour, go spend your millions, have a 3some with your love guru, anything, just stop playing.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by luvsports! on Sat May 13, 2017 11:19 pm

Thieeeeemmmm

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 11:20 pm

Cross-posting from 606v2:

This is what I get as top 12 point getters in the Euro-clay swing so far (Marrakech through today):

1.  Nadal - 2100 points
2. Thiem - 990
3. Ramos Vinolas - 745
4. Pouille - 620
5. Goffin - 585
6. Zverev - 565
7. Cuevas - 540
7. Djokovic - 540
9. Cilic - 440
10. Coric - 430
11. Carreno Busta - 395
12. Murray - 360

With the exception of Rafa who dominates with ease, the field for the RG feels quite open.  We often talk about seedings and how important it may be to get top 2 (or top 4, or top 8) seeding in order to avoid the high seeds, but I am not sure it will be all that important this year, as it is not at all clear that the top seeds are the most dangerous players.  Luck of the draw - rather than the seeding itself - may be more important than usual.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sat May 13, 2017 11:22 pm

luvsports! wrote:Thieeeeemmmm
He looked ok today.  Maybe this year will be for him like 2014 was for Dimitrov - the year where he finally gets to play big players on the big stage, comes close-ish to making it, but fails and realizes he is not up to the task, and fades away thereafter.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Sat May 13, 2017 11:47 pm

... wrote:
summerblues wrote:
... wrote:Nadal is very beatable.
Nole os shocking.
Nole is shocking, but Nadal is better than you are imagining.
In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.
Yes but he is simply better at it. That's what many fail to realise.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by ... on Sun May 14, 2017 12:20 am

He is closer to the baseline, so his shots are zippier, that's it.

Just an updated version of the old one.

And plenty of muscle in it.

But very little control and creativity as his whole game is so mechanical.

More than ever,  as now he has less time to think.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Emancipator on Sun May 14, 2017 4:00 pm

summerblues wrote:Cross-posting from 606v2:

This is what I get as top 12 point getters in the Euro-clay swing so far (Marrakech through today):

1.  Nadal - 2100 points
2. Thiem - 990
3. Ramos Vinolas - 745
4. Pouille - 620
5. Goffin - 585
6. Zverev - 565
7. Cuevas - 540
7. Djokovic - 540
9. Cilic - 440
10. Coric - 430
11. Carreno Busta - 395
12. Murray - 360

With the exception of Rafa who dominates with ease, the field for the RG feels quite open.  We often talk about seedings and how important it may be to get top 2 (or top 4, or top 8) seeding in order to avoid the high seeds, but I am not sure it will be all that important this year, as it is not at all clear that the top seeds are the most dangerous players.  Luck of the draw - rather than the seeding itself - may be more important than usual.

A win today would Nadal 700 points clear of Federer in the points race YTD.

He could potentially be as much as 4000 points ahead by the end of RG.

Let's say Rafa wins in Rome as well and then also RG beating Fed in the final (being pessimistic and optimistic all at once) - he would be roughly 3000 points ahead.  I think that would pretty much guarantee him YE number 1 - I can't see Federer or anyone else making up that deficit if Rafa stays fit.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Emancipator on Sun May 14, 2017 4:02 pm

Tenez wrote:
... wrote:
summerblues wrote:
... wrote:Nadal is very beatable.
Nole os shocking.
Nole is shocking, but Nadal is better than you are imagining.
In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.
Yes but he is simply better at it. That's what many fail to realise.


That's just pure stupidity.

Yesterday's match between the pair of them was a low quality affair. Compare that to the matches they played in 2011 and you can see the massive drop in level.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Emancipator on Sun May 14, 2017 4:04 pm

Should Federer enter Rome as a WC?

I think he should give it serious thought. He could just use it as clay prep for RG and who knows he may be able to gain some useful points.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Sun May 14, 2017 4:58 pm

... wrote:The nature of Nole's UEs also shows he hasn't been working that hard.

All in all, definitely his most embarrassing edition.

I just saw the highlights. Nole is not moving nearly as well as last year. His shots were also particularly soft.

he still had a chance to get back to 5 all playing that bad. Nole really exposes how crap Nadal is.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Sun May 14, 2017 4:59 pm

... wrote:He is closer to the baseline, so his shots are zippier, that's it.

Just an updated version of the old one.

And plenty of muscle in it.

But very little control and creativity as his whole game is so mechanical.

More than ever,  as now he has less time to think.
From what I saw just now, Nadal is certainly no better than in the past. Same crap, efficient game on clay.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by Tenez on Sun May 14, 2017 5:00 pm

TMF wrote:
Tenez wrote:
... wrote:
summerblues wrote:
... wrote:Nadal is very beatable.
Nole os shocking.
Nole is shocking, but Nadal is better than you are imagining.
In what way is he better?

Still playing the same safe old game.
Yes but he is simply better at it. That's what many fail to realise.


That's just pure stupidity.

Yesterday's match between the pair of them was a low quality affair. Compare that to the matches they played in 2011 and you can see the massive drop in level.
I had not watched the game and certainly yesterday doesn't support the point. However I still maintain that Nadal on HC this year is better.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sun May 14, 2017 5:09 pm

TMF wrote:Should Federer enter Rome as a WC?

I think he should give it serious thought. He could just use it as clay prep for RG and who knows he may be able to gain some useful points.
There is no such thing as "useful points" at this stage in his career.  There are only "useful grand slam titles".  He should see how RG goes and he should work hard to try to win W or USO.  If he gets to #1 in the process, so much the better, but he should waste exactly zero extra effort towards that.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sun May 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Good luck to Thiem today.  I doubt he has much chance, but let's see.  Maybe he has learned something from Barcelona.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Madrid

Post by summerblues on Sun May 14, 2017 5:18 pm

summerblues wrote:
TMF wrote:Should Federer enter Rome as a WC?

I think he should give it serious thought. He could just use it as clay prep for RG and who knows he may be able to gain some useful points.
There is no such thing as "useful points" at this stage in his career.  There are only "useful grand slam titles".  He should see how RG goes and he should work hard to try to win W or USO.  If he gets to #1 in the process, so much the better, but he should waste exactly zero extra effort towards that.
Maybe let me dial that back a little.  He should not waste any time thinking about #1 until after the USO.  If, after the USO, he is still in with a chance, then he can think about what, if anything, he wants to do to specifically chase #1.  But we are getting well ahead of ourselves.  He is 36 and an injury can be round the corner any moment.  So I will just take it one tourney at a time for now.

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