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ATP 1000: Miami

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Jahu on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:51 am

Want to see some DJoko/Andy ass being kicked.

I'll admit Nadal is a joy to watch lose, but need some variety here smiley

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:09 am

It'll be a big event when next Federer meets Djokovic or Murray. I just hope that when they do Federer is still healthy.

I have a feeling that this backhand is going to be almost as influential on those match-ups as it is on Nadal. Rafa has had his entire strategy dumped in the bin. To be fair to him, you can see already evidence of how he's trying to adapt.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by gallery play on Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:40 am

Yes he is.
It got to a point where Nadal wants to avoid the rally. He tries to copy Fed's 1-2 combo, in vain..

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:12 pm

At this rate we're going to have a Fedal match where Rafa (a) tries to keep the rallies short, (b) serves exclusively to the forehand, and (c) speeds up between points.

On the basis of yesterday, where Federer was playing after brutally tough semi & quarter against a fresh Nadal in hot, humid conditions on a slow bouncy court, he might have to do even more.

History is littered with rivalries where one player has worked the other out; I recall McEnroe having a bad time against Lendl until he worked out that approaching down the middle cut off Lendls opportunities to pass after which point the h2h swung wildy back. It's taken Federer a bit longer than we might have hoped but it's starting to appear that the same might have happened.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Emancipator on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:37 pm

summerblues wrote:Fed's 2017 feels like it is 2006 all over again.  Perhaps the biggest difference being that if 2006 Fed played Rafa at AO, IW, and in Miami, he would now have zero titles.

My goals for the rest of the season:

Rafa:  Going with high expectations into the clay court season, he finds out that on critical points he still keeps dumping easy FHs into the middle of the net and, as a result, fails to win anything significant.  He does pretty much nothing after the clay court season.

Nole:  Focuses mostly on extracurricular activities.  The highlight of his tennis year are long hugs with Pepe.  Wins nothing worth mentioning.

Andy:  Having finally reached #1, he suddenly realizes he cannot bring himself to focus on tennis as much as he used to.  Try as he may, it is just not there.  His game falls apart and he fails to win anything of significance.

Fed:  After encouraging signs during the spring return from the long injury, he peaks for the summer season, and beats Thiem for the RG title, Dimitrov for the Wimbledon crown, and Kyrgios in the USO final.  Given he is no longer 24 and cannot play everything left right and center, he is carefully mapping out his next three seasons through 2020.

I don't consider AM to be a credible threat to Federer. If Fed plays well he beats him easily. This ultra aggressive Federer will just spank him - he'll have Murray running around like a headless chicken and on the defensive the whole time. Only on clay does Murray have a chance.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by gallery play on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:56 pm

BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:56 pm

gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.
Not sure I agree. The amazing, genius level shots have always been a part of his game . What really is killing Nadal is that he's driving all the time and what he does when he gets a short ball. It's more like this at 0:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOrCBo4kWM

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:09 pm

gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.

beautiful! Dead risky though. A risk he coudl not take with the 90inck racquet.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:11 pm

bogbrush wrote:
History is littered with rivalries where one player has worked the other out; I recall McEnroe having a bad time against Lendl until he worked out that approaching down the middle cut off Lendls opportunities to pass after which point the h2h swung wildy back. .

...until it swung back for Lendl for good. lendl is the one who sorted McEnroe actually. lendl was simply more professional. the bigger frame helped Nadal for one year but helped lendl's FH for many years thereafter.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Veejay on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:16 pm

bogbrush wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.
Not sure I agree. The amazing, genius level shots have always been a part of his game . What really is killing Nadal is that he's driving all the time and what he does when he gets a short ball. It's more like this at 0:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOrCBo4kWM

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.
the incredible part has to be that the majority of those backhand winners come in the 5th set while he was trailing a break down
the last one wasnt a backhand winner though but probably the best rally of the whole match

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:19 pm

bogbrush wrote:

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.

Yes. I think we all agree with that. It has changed the dynamics entirely. And also the fact that It would be impossible for rafa to stand back and run crazy like in the good all days. the game has spaced up. If you look at AO09 for instance v Verdasco or federer you can see how much running nadal can do standing 3m behind teh baseline. Now if he were to stand that far back, he woudl be on his knees after 3 games. In fact Djoko already in 2011 made him realise he coudl not stay back anylonger.

Nadal has had a good year in 2013 where he managed to stand close and win (though shoudl have lost the FO to Djoko) but I also suspect it was a year Djoko lost a bit of his edge.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:29 pm

Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
History is littered with rivalries where one player has worked the other out; I recall McEnroe having a bad time against Lendl until he worked out that approaching down the middle cut off Lendls opportunities to pass after which point the h2h swung wildy back. .

...until it swung back for Lendl for good. lendl is the one who sorted McEnroe actually. lendl was simply more professional. the bigger frame helped Nadal for one year but helped lendl's FH for many years thereafter.
Yes indeed, though how much of that was advances in his game or the effects of McEnroes private life is open to question. John even took time out of the game to get himself together but was never the same. 
I think to be fair to Lendl he took the game up a notch, especially in diet when he became the screaming skull.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:34 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
History is littered with rivalries where one player has worked the other out; I recall McEnroe having a bad time against Lendl until he worked out that approaching down the middle cut off Lendls opportunities to pass after which point the h2h swung wildy back. .

...until it swung back for Lendl for good. lendl is the one who sorted McEnroe actually. lendl was simply more professional. the bigger frame helped Nadal for one year but helped lendl's FH for many years thereafter.
Yes indeed, though how much of that was advances in his game or the effects of McEnroes private life is open to question. John even took time out of the game to get himself together but was never the same. 
I think to be fair to Lendl he took the game up a notch, especially in diet when he became the screaming skull.

I think it's down to McEnroe's technique. A huge talent for sure but controlling a ball with half volleys sent with a wooden racket is different than having to control the bullets, Lendl, Pete, Becker and Agassi were sending .

McEnroe is a typical player who got his career shortened by the new generation having learnt the game with new tools. the yongsters swang shots from both sides while Becker was blocking/pushing the ball (accurately certainly) but not hurting enough.

I loved his game but it clearly became obsolete after 84 when pace picked up.

BTW, I was a fan of his (and hers) at Tatum's time but in retrospect it was clearly his tennis the main problem...

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:47 pm

I finally watched 12mn of the final. Was not great quality but my impressions:

- Both were looping a lot.
- Both made tons of UEs
- Nadal certainly looked tired (Not sure why) but there is almost a lack of belief in his game. he also stood quite far back from the baseline.
- Federer played poorly too clearly due to conds and fatigue I guess but was enough to win...and though the score might not reflect how close it was, it was only close cause both were playing way below their higher level. I still cannot explain why Nadal was tired or faithless.

Federer needs a rest. Nadal needs to play on clay to feel great again.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:54 pm

That's funny.

Q. Congratulations on your win, and I would like to know, how do you feel after the game and if you're ready to give it another try?
RAFAEL NADAL: I lost, by the way.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:46 am

bogbrush wrote:I'll not be bored until the h2h gets reversed smiley
So you are one of those Fed fans who spent 10 years talking about how they did not care about H2H while it was secretly gnawing at them?

Who cares about the H2H?  Obviously I am happy that it looks like Fed was able to find a way to deal with the match-up issue.  But now that he beat Rafa three times, the last two quite easily, it is "been there done that".  I would much rather see him having close battles with the likes of Kyrgios than watch him destroy Rafa 10 more times.

I would find it more interesting if Rafa does manage to find some countermeasures - then maybe a few more matches would be worthwhile.  But the current matches are boring, and given that I find Rafa's game excruciatingly ugly, I have no desire to see many more of them.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:56 am

gallery play wrote:Have to say though, i am surprised you're already getting bored of this new Fedal. For the time being the way the table turned is highly fascinating to me. And make no mistake: the day a slightly off-form Federer appears, Nadal will take advantage.
I dunno.  I think Sunday's Federer was off-form Federer, and yet he won comfortably.  Also, I am not sure I quite agree with those who suggest that the second set was close.  To me it felt more like a match between a top player and a weaker player, where the top dog is happy to hold serve knowing he can break when needed.  Fed was holding with no fuss whatsoever, and then turned it up on the return his last two return games.

I also thought Rafa's body language was saying he was resigned to a loss as soon as he lost the first set.  That second set felt more like formality to me.

Anyway, I will not deny it is enjoyable to see Fed thrashing Rafa, but I found Kyrgios semifinal far more entertaining.  I would much rather see more matches like that - even at the risk that Fed might lose them - than many more matches like the final.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:37 am

bogbrush wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.
Not sure I agree. The amazing, genius level shots have always been a part of his game . What really is killing Nadal is that he's driving all the time and what he does when he gets a short ball. It's more like this at 0:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOrCBo4kWM

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.
I am 100% with BB on this one.  The BH half-volley from Sunday was lovely, but that rally is an example of exactly how their matches used to be.  Federer is pushing Rafa throughout but cannot quite put him away until he produces that shot.  Rafa will be happy as a clam in those types of rallies - that is how he beat Fed million times.

BB's compilation shows what changed in their match-up - the BHs there are the kind you would not have seen in the past, and they are what makes the old tactic not work for Rafa anymore.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Daniel on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:07 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I'll not be bored until the h2h gets reversed smiley
So you are one of those Fed fans who spent 10 years talking about how they did not care about H2H while it was secretly gnawing at them?

Who cares about the H2H?  

I agree.  Also, the H2H is in favour of Federer when you take clay out. H2H is meaningless when you are beaten by Rosol, Darcis, and Brown in your prime at Wimbledon. Consistently winning titles against all players is far harder to do than beating one player whose style is a bad match up for your own. Every time a Nadal fan brings up h2h it's for one reason: It's practically the only sodding stat they have as a weapon. And when they do, I just bring up Rosol, Darcis, Brown, and Davydenko.  Not to mention Djokovic making Nadal his bitch.  Djoko's Bitch.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:44 am

This is a case again of "I told you so". For me that H2H was always a generation issue. Fed was simly not of Nadal's generation. Fed having learnt and develped his game as a youngster with a smaller racquet (85inch) and nat gut (till 2002) on faster surfaces was faced with a new generation who learnt the game with bigger frames and new strings who got "lucky" to have all surfaces being slowed down for them.

Fed had to deal with a very different type of tennis he learnt conds from. Once he understood he had to adapt to the same weapons it made the job easier for me to compete with him.

I am pretty sure had Fed learnt the game with his current racquet he may have won all his encounters v Murray, Nadal and Djooko like he has versus Ferrer! As simple as that.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by gallery play on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:01 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.
Not sure I agree. The amazing, genius level shots have always been a part of his game . What really is killing Nadal is that he's driving all the time and what he does when he gets a short ball. It's more like this at 0:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOrCBo4kWM

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.
I am 100% with BB on this one.  The BH half-volley from Sunday was lovely, but that rally is an example of exactly how their matches used to be.  Federer is pushing Rafa throughout but cannot quite put him away until he produces that shot.  Rafa will be happy as a clam in those types of rallies - that is how he beat Fed million times.

BB's compilation shows what changed in their match-up - the BHs there are the kind you would not have seen in the past, and they are what makes the old tactic not work for Rafa anymore.
But Fed wins those now! That's why it's so telling. Nadal used to push Fed back at some point, but in this one you can see Fed has an awnser to everything Nadal hits. Not exactly 2006 he?
The final shot is one Fed did not have in 2006. That short-swing-no-follow-through-shot  helps him to produce BH halfvolleys all over the place. It makes Nadal so vulnerable.
And the last telling part is how Nadal literally gives up, he lacks the speed or determination to even get to that ball. I think in 2006 he at least would have got his racquet behind it.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:32 am

Tenez wrote:This is a case again of "I told you so". For me that H2H was always a generation issue. Fed was simly not of Nadal's generation. Fed having learnt and develped his game as a youngster with a smaller racquet (85inch) and nat gut (till 2002) on faster surfaces was faced with a new generation who learnt the game with bigger frames and new strings who got "lucky" to have all surfaces being slowed down for them.

Fed had to deal with a very different type of tennis he learnt conds from. Once he understood he had to adapt to the same weapons it made the job easier for me to compete with him.

I am pretty sure had Fed learnt the game with his current racquet he may have won all his encounters v Murray, Nadal and Djooko like he has versus Ferrer! As simple as that.

Yes, he finally caight up with the new technologu in 2017 getting comfortable with the racquet head size that is still 3" smaller than everyone else's.

10 years too late, but better late than never.

That's why I think he'd have no problem beating Djokovic now. Murray, he always had in his pocket.

Federer is the true number one now and the biggest challenge for him this year was Kyrgios.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by gallery play on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:57 am

Ironically he did switch quite often, but never to the "right" one (bigger frame)
But let's not forget he did not so bad with the smaller ones Big Grin

All the racquets he used:
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/news/news/Roger_Federer/36595/all-the-rackets-roger-federer-used-during-his-career-pics-inside/

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:09 am

Wow!
Very interesting.
Didn't realise he used a pure six one and won so much with it.

And wasn't aware there were combos of six one  + prostaff, too.

I think a pure Prostaff is the right racquet for the Genius.

As you said those pacy half volleys he now pulls off at will (against Nadal when he doesn't really need to!!!) are a sure sign how comfortable he is with it.

Sky is the limit!Magic

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:12 am

Yes but those differences as he said were mainly paint jobs. The main changes were in 2002 when he adopted the 90inch and luxilon on the crosses.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:19 am

Yes, the changes he went through from young days are amazing.

Is he the only player who has bridged such drastic transition in technology?

Looks like all other number ones preferred to retire rather than embrace new stuff.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:47 am

It's very easy...the difference between old and new racquet is the bigger sweetspot...meaning less fear of shanking hence faster pace due to more commitment on his every shot. Even on the shot GP hilights it's the pace that is beating Nadal. He knows there is no point at making an extra effort to give Federer an easy shot to put away. Thanks to this racquet we are almost back to the court conds of the 90s when players knew there was no point chasing balls which would only give the opponent an easy shot. The pace and depth of that BH to Nadal's BH surprises Nadal who at best could only have blocked it whereas before he'd have time to swing at it. That might a reason he looks slower or discouraged

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:39 am

Yes, bigger sweetspot is everything.

That is why I can't understand why Federer never went for it earlier.

He must have been really stubborn!

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:50 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:I'll not be bored until the h2h gets reversed smiley
So you are one of those Fed fans who spent 10 years talking about how they did not care about H2H while it was secretly gnawing at them?

Who cares about the H2H?  Obviously I am happy that it looks like Fed was able to find a way to deal with the match-up issue.  But now that he beat Rafa three times, the last two quite easily, it is "been there done that".  I would much rather see him having close battles with the likes of Kyrgios than watch him destroy Rafa 10 more times.

I would find it more interesting if Rafa does manage to find some countermeasures - then maybe a few more matches would be worthwhile.  But the current matches are boring, and given that I find Rafa's game excruciatingly ugly, I have no desire to see many more of them.
No, I never said it didn't annoy me. It annoys me that detractors of the best player I've ever seen have a stick with which to invade rational discussions and it would please me no end to see that stick broken.

There doesn't have to be a choice. Miami showed that we can have a great match with Kyrgios AND a Rafa beat (though I don't agree it was anywhere near as clear-cut as Indian Wells; given the circumstances it was never going to be, but it wasn't a beatdown).

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:20 pm

A fan is a fan, so fans and rational discussions don't go hand in hand. This is why they will always find excuses or circonstances to favour their players. I remember Amri here twisting everything to get to his ends, saying even that nadal "was injured and more tired than Federer cause he started his career earlier". Completely non-sense rather that admit that Nadal had simply a physically more demanding game.

At the end the obvious history will retain the facts and truth. I have always said that Nadal was beating Federer because of the difference in generation and material / conds they learnt to play. I thought we coudl never prove that but now it's bloody clear. No-one can deny that.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:03 am

bogbrush wrote:No, I never said it didn't annoy me. It annoys me that detractors of the best player I've ever seen have a stick with which to invade rational discussions and it would please me no end to see that stick broken.
I suppose, but it still strikes me as an odd way of looking at it.  I would not want to see Fed play Rafa only so that someone else's argument is broken.  I care for what I care not for what other people think.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:42 am

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:No, I never said it didn't annoy me. It annoys me that detractors of the best player I've ever seen have a stick with which to invade rational discussions and it would please me no end to see that stick broken.
I suppose, but it still strikes me as an odd way of looking at it.  I would not want to see Fed play Rafa only so that someone else's argument is broken.  I care for what I care not for what other people think.
Yeah, but I love grinding someone's argument into the ground. Perhaps you've not noticed? Winking

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:10 pm

I agree. It's nice to corner your opponent and leave them with no escape....though I learnt it's impossible.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Tenez wrote:I agree. It's nice to corner your opponent and leave them with no escape.... though I learnt it's impossible.
Interesting!

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:11 pm

... wrote:
Tenez wrote:I agree. It's nice to corner your opponent and leave them with no escape.... though I learnt it's impossible.
Interesting!
Spirit and will are stronger than reality. There are plenty of people who simply do not want to see it as it is. It's simply the power of mind. Whether that's a good thing or not...can be debatable but it's just so.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Tenez wrote:
... wrote:
Tenez wrote:I agree. It's nice to corner your opponent and leave them with no escape.... though I learnt it's impossible.
Interesting!
Spirit and will are stronger than reality. There are plenty of people who simply do not want to see it as it is. It's simply the power of mind. Whether that's a good thing or not...can be debatable but it's just so.
I call it pride.

And I disagree it's impossible. But agree that majority are not humble to admit when they are wrong.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Veejay on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:42 pm

some interesting stats in the fedal rivalry 

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-nadal-numbers-april-2017

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Emancipator on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:06 pm

gallery play wrote:
summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW Tenez, have you seen this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0nhKfXeBUA

If there's one rally which tells the whole story of Fedal 2017, than this is the one.
Not sure I agree. The amazing, genius level shots have always been a part of his game . What really is killing Nadal is that he's driving all the time and what he does when he gets a short ball. It's more like this at 0:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOrCBo4kWM

Nadal can't now camp in his own deuce court because the crosser kills him, and as we saw yesterday he can't now just play to Rogers backhand. The genius shots come along once a set and Rafa can live with them. He can't handle this rally shot.
I am 100% with BB on this one.  The BH half-volley from Sunday was lovely, but that rally is an example of exactly how their matches used to be.  Federer is pushing Rafa throughout but cannot quite put him away until he produces that shot.  Rafa will be happy as a clam in those types of rallies - that is how he beat Fed million times.

BB's compilation shows what changed in their match-up - the BHs there are the kind you would not have seen in the past, and they are what makes the old tactic not work for Rafa anymore.
But Fed wins those now! That's why it's so telling. Nadal used to push Fed back at some point, but in this one you can see Fed has an awnser to everything Nadal hits. Not exactly 2006 he?
The final shot is one Fed did not have in 2006. That short-swing-no-follow-through-shot  helps him to produce BH halfvolleys all over the place. It makes Nadal so vulnerable.
And the last telling part is how Nadal literally gives up, he lacks the speed or determination to even get to that ball. I think in 2006 he at least would have got his racquet behind it.

Federer could always play that shot. The bigger racquet just allows him to do it more consistently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQh6U_SPvt0

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by gallery play on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:30 pm

Yeah TMF, that's a famous one. But that one was pure improvisation, there was no other way he could have returned that shot. Nowadays he uses it (the half volley) as a weapon at will, and like you said, is quite consistent with it.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Daniel on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:46 pm

He could still always do it.  He just did.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:01 am

Tenez wrote:A fan is a fan, so fans and rational discussions don't go hand in hand. This is why they will always find excuses or circonstances to favour their players.
Very true.  But pretty cheeky coming from you.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by summerblues on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:02 am

bogbrush wrote:Yeah, but I love grinding someone's argument into the ground. Perhaps you've not noticed? Winking
Hah!  Fair enough. smiley

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by break_in_the_fifth on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:16 am

Hey guys, good year for tennis so far!

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 am

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Hey guys, good year for tennis so far!
Hi break_in_the_fifth!

welcome!

Yes a brilliant 2017, like living a dream.
Watching Federer play this fantastic tennis has been a reall tennis bliss!

Shame he isn't able to play on clay, but I'm sure we'll habe some interesting results there, too.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by break_in_the_fifth on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:34 am

Yeah it's amazing how most of the innovations keeping the game interesting are still coming from him. I couldn't believe the results, especially AO, as I was resigned to history.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:42 am

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Yeah it's amazing how most of the innovations keeping the game interesting are still coming from him. I couldn't believe the results, especially AO, as I was resigned to history.

You weren't the only one.

I really thought he was finished when his knee buckled under him and  he fell on his face vs Raonic last Wimbledon.
The way he flicked his leg on the ground in resignation, as if to say...that's it!




And then AO!!!!

He literally rose out of ashes like phoenix!

To me he is a totally new man now in some way! love

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Daniel on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:56 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:A fan is a fan, so fans and rational discussions don't go hand in hand. This is why they will always find excuses or circonstances to favour their players.
Very true.  But pretty cheeky coming from you.

That's not actually true. There are fans who can discern reality and criticize the players they support, like me (done it enough with O'Sullivan and Federer), and those who will make excuses for everything the player they support does - and see what they want to believe regardless of reality (like Bogbrush and Amri). I also note that these types never use their real name or allow anyone to know who they are in person. Funny that.

And generally speaking, each of the "fanbases" set up their own little tribe to attack the other. More and more I respect the neutrals the most - but they usually stay well clear of forums for good reason.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:27 pm

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:A fan is a fan, so fans and rational discussions don't go hand in hand. This is why they will always find excuses or circonstances to favour their players.
Very true.  But pretty cheeky coming from you.
unlike you I don;t try to appear balanced....I just am. Winking

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:29 pm

bitf...rings a bell this pseudo. ..Welcome here.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

Post by bogbrush on Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:08 am

Daniel wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:A fan is a fan, so fans and rational discussions don't go hand in hand. This is why they will always find excuses or circonstances to favour their players.
Very true.  But pretty cheeky coming from you.

That's not actually true. There are fans who can discern reality and criticize the players they support, like me (done it enough with O'Sullivan and Federer), and those who will make excuses for everything the player they support does - and see what they want to believe regardless of reality (like Bogbrush and Amri). I also note that these types never use their real name or allow anyone to know who they are in person. Funny that.

And generally speaking, each of the "fanbases" set up their own little tribe to attack the other. More and more I respect the neutrals the most - but they usually stay well clear of forums for good reason.
Yeah, many people think it's wise to disclose their personal details on the internet where they can debate with all sorts of oddball angry people.

Obviously you've taken the high ground using your unique name. It does show your imagination, to be fair.

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Re: ATP 1000: Miami

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