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Federer's Backhand

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Emancipator on Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:37 pm

Daniel wrote:
NITB wrote:
luvsports! wrote:... but you can't make that horse admit that Feds' backhand is better now than it was in 2006!
What makes you think it was better in 2006?

Nearly all the videos of 2006.  If you bother to watch them. And that was at a time he used a smaller racquet.  Something else you and Tenez conveniently ignore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJjNpoHJgg

Nadal is again the opponent.  Smaller racquet, great backhand. While we are at it, a much better forehand and faster court coverage.

That's probably the worst video you could have picked from 2006. I think Federer hit 1 BH winner in that match. Doh

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:00 pm

TMF wrote:
Daniel wrote:
NITB wrote:
luvsports! wrote:... but you can't make that horse admit that Feds' backhand is better now than it was in 2006!
What makes you think it was better in 2006?

Nearly all the videos of 2006.  If you bother to watch them. And that was at a time he used a smaller racquet.  Something else you and Tenez conveniently ignore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJjNpoHJgg

Nadal is again the opponent.  Smaller racquet, great backhand. While we are at it, a much better forehand and faster court coverage.

That's probably the worst video you could have picked from 2006. I think Federer hit 1 BH winner in that match. Doh

You obviously didn't watch it all - and to be fair I chose a random video (because unlike Tenez I don't cherry pick my data).  His forehand is miles better, his court coverage is better, and his backhand hits far more than one winner. It also sets up numerous put aways. It isn't me making the claim that his backhand was just so useless until now.  It's numerous others.  You can't tell me the backhand there is bad because it isn't. 

As you noted, there are dozens of others from 2006 that are better - which is what I implied originally. That's a masters match too - you don't expect Fed to be playing at Slam level there, right?

Additionally, you do realize Nadal was a better player there and was returning a lot of the backhands that the other day he wasn't?

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Emancipator on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:45 pm

Actually I've seen the entire match hence the riposte regarding BH winners. And no he doesn't hit lots of BH winners - I think he hits his first BH winner in the last game; that spectacular winner. In any case it's certainly less than 3 or 4 for the entire match.

Highlights can make any video look good - hence 'highlights'.

Choosing 'random' videos is not a good way to demonstrate your point.

And Nadal played a pretty poor match that day. He hit something like 27 or 28 unforced errors in 2 sets with around 13 winners. That's virtually unheard of for him. Federer's numbers are also negative.

And btw did you see Federer celebrate at the end - NEVER seen him celebrate like that for a semi final so he obviously took it very seriously - and anyway, somehow I don't think he steps onto the court against Nadal thinking, 'oh it's not a slam match so i'm not gonna try my best' erm

You clearly haven't watched the match.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Emancipator on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:51 pm

I think overall the BH is probably a little better - the bigger racquet certainly helps. He as also made a deliberate effort to hit it flatter. I think it has improved slightly from in the period 2014 to present day.

It was awful from 2008 - 2014 - before the racquet change - shanks galore.

The serve is as good as ever. The return is probably slightly better - more aggressive, hits more through the ball rather than just bunting it.

Clearly doesn't move as well and the FH as a result has lost it's potency. Overall not quite the player he was in his heyday but still obviously very good.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:33 pm

Daniel - It is important to review clips of the past with a new fresh eye and not get stuck with your past (2006) impressions. The world moves on...that's why as impressive was federer for his time inm 2006, all players have to move on and get used to the new conditions, new types of players and so on...

The one you posted is probably one of teh better one versus Nadal up to 2006....But he has played much better after that. And if his FH got more loopy with time is simply cause he tried to cut on UEs. he can play great FHs today too if he plays a berdych or Zverev but he has to play them much safer when he plays Nadal or Djoko. He says it was a deliberate choice to chance his FH..and why he was able to keep up with teh new generation when other like Roddick, Blake, Nalby, Hewitt and all his generation are nowhere any close to his game....bar Berdych and Ferrer maybe.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Here's that extract about Federer's BH from his interview the other day:

=======================================================
"I think the backhand has gotten better because I have been able to put in so many hours onto the racquet now. And since this year, I feel super comfortable with the racquet, and I think I have gained confidence stepping into it.

I think it was the work that I had in the offseason. You never play 10 backhand-to-backhand shots, but in practice you practice those a ton and eventually they are ingrained in the system. You need good footwork, because if the footwork is not good, you won't be on top of the ball.

I think all my coaches through my career have told me to go more for the backhand, Maybe deep down I didn't believe I had it in the most important moments. But I think that's changing little by little, which I'm very happy about."

=======================================================


Amazing little insight, isn't it!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:50 pm

The mastering of the BH is a bit like the mastering of your subconscious....for the one SHBHers.

The DHBers are those who simply do not wish to venture in the depth of their subconscious.


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:29 pm

Tenez wrote:The mastering of the BH is a bit like the mastering of your subconscious....for the one SHBHers.

The DHBers are those who simply do not wish to venture in the depth of their subconscious.


It really is!

...

It's a deligjtful shot.
Like it comes straight from the heart.

With the forehand, the pleasure comes from contact with the ball, that satisfying thud, and that's where it ends.

With the backhand, it's when you see the ball land at the end of your swing, the whole travelling of it.

Two totally different worlds.



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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:06 am

Glad you subscribe to it. It was a thought that came with a few glasses of wine....but I stick by it, Winking

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:06 am

Tenez wrote:Glad you subscribe to it. It was a thought that came with a few glasses of wine....but I stick by it, Winking

Must have been a good drop,  keep drinking it! Winking

ps

great comparison with the DBH-ers. That is such a confining shot.


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by bogbrush on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:29 am

Funny, I always found the SHBH the most natural shot to play.

I've mentioned it before, but switch racquet to your wrong hand and try to hit a forehand and a SHBH. I can easily hit a left handed SHBH with a bit of grooving but couldn't get a forehand anywhere.

It's a shot with a lot less going on I think, much less complicated. You just need good athleticism and strong arms & back.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:37 am

I guess the release of the BH swing is natural as one would not naturally hold his/her arm pulled back for long.

It needs timing more than anything else cause the sweet spot is tinier than with a DHBH, hence sure the need of a firm grip.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:52 am

You definitely need better timing with it.  A double handed backhand is easier - and I am a DHBH player.They both have their strengths and weaknesses - and I think a DHBH player struggles more when he has to use one hand on certain shots.  I know I do.  The muscle simply isn't there.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:08 am

Wow, after part 1 in AO:



the plot thickens and Nole joins the SBH Trio! Yikes / Laugh



What is going on?


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:20 am

Daniel wrote:You definitely need better timing with it.  A double handed backhand is easier - and I am a DHBH player.They both have their strengths and weaknesses - and I think a DHBH player struggles more when he has to use one hand on certain shots.  I know I do.  The muscle simply isn't there.

Why did you start with the DBH in the first place?

You should have persevered with the SBH.

GO BACK TO IT AND WORK ON IT!!! Grr

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:22 am

bogbrush wrote:Funny, I always found the SHBH the most natural shot to play.

I've mentioned it before, but switch racquet to your wrong hand and try to hit a forehand and a SHBH. I can easily hit a left handed SHBH with a bit of grooving but couldn't get a forehand anywhere.

It's a shot with a lot less going on I think, much less complicated. You just need good athleticism and strong arms & back.

It is very natural, certainly more natural than the DBH which feels like being in a cage, it's just a very tough shot to master (the SBH).

But there is nothing sweeter than striking a great one!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Emancipator on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:58 pm

Federer has the best single hander on tour. Stan can hit it harder and flatter but those are the only two things he can do better than Federer on that wing.

Stan is limited by his huge take back whereas Federer can easily truncate his swing and thus take the ball much earlier allowing him to play on the baseline. The Federer BH is more versatile, his slice is much better and he  creates better angles with it.

Stan hits lots of incredible winners when the ball is delivered to his hitting zone but take his time away on that wing and he's an error fest.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by gallery play on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:33 am

TMF wrote:
Stan is limited by his huge take back whereas Federer can easily truncate his swing and thus take the ball much earlier allowing him to play on the baseline. The Federer BH is more versatile, his slice is much better and he  creates better angles with it.
All true. But it's situational. With a big gun you can hit what you're aiming for from far away. A small pistol can be as deadly but only when the target is close. And with a close target there's little time to aim.

So which BH is better depends on the circumstances.

For the record: i'm anti NRA Laugh

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:55 am

I personally don't see much difference in power between Stan and Fed. If SB's stats are correct, it shows Fed's BH is safer, less prone to mistake. But on some shots I found Fed's BH pretty similar pace wise as Stan's....just that he makes more effort to keep it in. He can flatten the ball now if he wants to but does it when he feels it's teh right time, v Nadal's MP for instance.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:44 am

... wrote:
Daniel wrote:You definitely need better timing with it.  A double handed backhand is easier - and I am a DHBH player.They both have their strengths and weaknesses - and I think a DHBH player struggles more when he has to use one hand on certain shots.  I know I do.  The muscle simply isn't there.

Why did you start with the DBH in the first place?

You should have persevered with the SBH.

GO BACK TO IT AND WORK ON IT!!! Grr

The same reason Nole did.... the muscle wasn't there. :P  It's no good starting with a one handed backhand if you just get beaten week in and out.  A DHBH is a much more reliable shot at club level too. You get a ton of power along with stability and less perfect timing needed.

I'm actually going to test a double handed forehand at the club next time I am there.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:06 am

Our club champion is a DHer from both sides. Does not look good but efficient.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:44 am

Tenez wrote:Our club champion is a DHer from both sides. Does not look good but efficient.
That's disgusting!

If I were a man I'd be ashamed to play anything with two hands.

Some people are so desperate it's more important to them to win than to enjoy the game itself.

Nobody can convince me they enjoy striking a two handed shot.

I can partly understand pros but club players...

If Justine Henin could do it - there is no excuse for anyone.
Mind you, he element of talent cannot be ignored, though anyone can improve the shot on a club level. People are just lazy.

Or even worse...not interested! Wah


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:55 am

... wrote:
Tenez wrote:Our club champion is a DHer from both sides. Does not look good but efficient.
That's disgusting!

If I were a man I'd be ashamed to play anything with two hands.


Some people are so desperate it's more important to them to win than to enjoy the game itself.

Nobody can convince me they enjoy striking a two handed shot.

I can partly understand pros but club players....
Laugh He is so proud (bordering arrogant) due to his great record at the club. If he were to read you, poor guy.

No I think for him he just feels comfortable that way, like Santoro did. It's good to have different styles. I have no problem with it (at club level at least). A bit more complicated at the pro level since they are ways to compensate for the disadvantage of playing DH whereas for SHers they are no ways to improve those disadvantages.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:01 am

Come on, T!!!

Do you honestly believe someone can be more comfortable with two hands!!!

Bartoli played with two hands and I loved her because she played with such heart, but she is an exception. (and Seles who she idolised is to blame)

For me two handed tennis is not tennis, it completely changes how it's played, erodes it, it should go into disabled competition section, or another discipline.

There is no medical reason ine should play with two hands.

Sorry, I am really not intending to offend anyone here, just am a bit passionste about SBH. Big Grin

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by luvsports! on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:16 am

You're obsessed :P

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:23 am

luvsports! wrote:You're obsessed :P
Maybe I am, but someone's got to look after the most wonderful game!

Look where it's heading wih these new shoot-out formats, football world cup group play off system for Davis cup proposals plus  best of three sets, players like Kyrgios and Tomic allowed to tank matches, what's next, a lower net?


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:30 pm

... wrote:Come on, T!!!

Do you honestly believe someone can be more comfortable with two hands!!!
I paid the cost for not believing it. Lost 3 finals to him....he was simply more consistent than me on pressure time whereas I could beat him consitently (10 years ago) outside our big Summer tournaments.

Bartoli played with two hands and I loved her because she played with such heart, but she is an exception. (and Seles who she idolised is to blame)

For me two handed tennis is not tennis, it completely changes how it's played, erodes it, it should go into disabled competition section, or another discipline.

There is no medical reason ine should play with two hands.

Sorry, I am really not intending to offend anyone here, just am a bit passionste about SBH. Big Grin

But tennis is not an art, it;s a sport. It;s about bringing the ball back in court more often than your opponent. If it felt more comfy to adopt the DHBH I would. Just that for me it doesn't. Well I woudl certainly enjoy it less...but again I don;t make a living out of that game....I play to enjoy. Quite different perspective from those pros.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:59 pm

... wrote:
Tenez wrote:Our club champion is a DHer from both sides. Does not look good but efficient.
That's disgusting!

If I were a man I'd be ashamed to play anything with two hands.

Some people are so desperate it's more important to them to win than to enjoy the game itself.

Nobody can convince me they enjoy striking a two handed shot.

I can partly understand pros but club players...

If Justine Henin could do it - there is no excuse for anyone.
Mind  you, he element of talent cannot be ignored, though anyone can improve the shot on a club level. People are just lazy.

Or even worse...not interested! Wah

Instead of ranting like a fool, look up Santoro and realize that it's an effective shot. The DHFH this time! He was called the magician for a reason. And he also beat Djok.


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:00 pm

Tenez wrote:
... wrote:Come on, T!!!
Do you honestly believe someone can be more comfortable with two hands!!!
I paid the cost for not believing it. Lost 3 finals to him....he was simply more consistent than me on pressure time whereas I could beat him consitently (10 years ago) outside our big Summer tournaments.
Bartoli played with two hands and I loved her because she played with such heart, but she is an exception. (and Seles who she idolised is to blame)
For me two handed tennis is not tennis, it completely changes how it's played, erodes it, it should go into disabled competition section, or another discipline.
There is no medical reason ine should play with two hands.
Sorry, I am really not intending to offend anyone here, just am a bit passionste about SBH. Big Grin
But tennis is not an art, it;s a sport. It;s about bringing the ball back in court more often than your opponent. If it felt more comfy to adopt the DHBH I would. Just that for me it doesn't. Well I woudl certainly enjoy it less...but again I don;t make a living out of that game....I play to enjoy. Quite different perspective from those pros.
I wouldn't.
And I don't believe there is "comort". That is a poor excuse.

I'd rather play with one hand and lose than win with two.


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:36 pm

... wrote:
Tenez wrote:
... wrote:Come on, T!!!
Do you honestly believe someone can be more comfortable with two hands!!!
I paid the cost for not believing it. Lost 3 finals to him....he was simply more consistent than me on pressure time whereas I could beat him consitently (10 years ago) outside our big Summer tournaments.
Bartoli played with two hands and I loved her because she played with such heart, but she is an exception. (and Seles who she idolised is to blame)
For me two handed tennis is not tennis, it completely changes how it's played, erodes it, it should go into disabled competition section, or another discipline.
There is no medical reason ine should play with two hands.
Sorry, I am really not intending to offend anyone here, just am a bit passionste about SBH. Big Grin
But tennis is not an art, it;s a sport. It;s about bringing the ball back in court more often than your opponent. If it felt more comfy to adopt the DHBH I would. Just that for me it doesn't. Well I woudl certainly enjoy it less...but again I don;t make a living out of that game....I play to enjoy. Quite different perspective from those pros.
I wouldn't.
And I don't believe there is "comort". That is a poor excuse.

I'd rather play with one hand and lose than win with two.


But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't. It's easy for us to play how we want cause it's just a hobby...but when it's a job!!it's different.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:01 pm

Tenez wrote:But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't. It's easy for us to play how we want cause it's just a hobby...but when it's a job!!it's different.

My first job ever  was a teacher in an elite school in Belgrade and straight away, I had pressure (from colleague teachers and indirectly headmistress married to a most prominent lawyer in the country) to give better marks and treatment to students from wealthy and influental patents.

Teachers did the regularly to compensate for their low salaries (and they were very low) so they then could ask favours from parents (eg be seen quicker in hospitals by a good doctors etc...)

I didn't, even though I was probably one of the poorest there.

Needless to say, my contract was not renewed.

But in my next school...I quickly became Deputy Head...

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:20 pm

... wrote:But in my next school...I quickly became Deputy Head...
We don't want to know how! Winking

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:27 pm

Tenez wrote:
... wrote:But in my next school...I quickly became Deputy Head...
We don't want to know how! Winking
Well you will now!
I did not switch to DBH out of comfort.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by bogbrush on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:29 pm

... wrote:
Tenez wrote:But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't. It's easy for us to play how we want cause it's just a hobby...but when it's a job!!it's different.

My first job ever  was a teacher in an elite school in Belgrade and straight away, I had pressure (from colleague teachers and indirectly headmistress married to a most prominent lawyer in the country) to give better marks and treatment to students from wealthy and influental patents.

Teachers did the regularly to compensate for their low salaries (and they were very low) so they then could ask favours from parents (eg be seen quicker in hospitals by a good doctors etc...)

I didn't, even though I was probably one of the poorest there.

Needless to say, my contract was not renewed.

But in my next school...I quickly became Deputy Head...
Happily, in my industry it is possible with brains and application to find extra profit in quality and expertise. I find it's dimmer businesses where trade-offs like "quality versus cost" are taken seriously as choices.

You do need an exceptional Leader to pull this off and become recognised across the Continent as a top business in your field though.  Cool

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:35 pm

Exactly!

When you are good you don't need to dope! Winking

It is costly in the beginning but really worth it in the long run.

Just look at Federer!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:21 pm

... wrote:Exactly!

When you are good you don't need to dope! Winking

It is costly in the beginning but really worth it in the long run.

Just look at Federer!
Yeah..but I am not good.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:22 pm

Tenez wrote:
... wrote:Exactly!
When you are good you don't need to dope! Winking
It is costly in the beginning but really worth it in the long run.
Just look at Federer!
Yeah..but I am not good.

Well you can mock me as much as you like...

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by summerblues on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:24 am

Tenez wrote:But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't.
Plus DHBH is not even about ethics - it is perfectly ethical (albeit ugly) to play DHBH.

Also, for me there is a huge difference between pros and amateur club players - it is two different worlds:

Pros should do whatever makes them win (within rules) - doing anything else is in fact borderline "unethical" because if they just do whatever they enjoy even if it costs them in results they are not doing their job properly.

For amateurs it is very different - amateurs play in their spare time and it almost feels a little silly to focus too much on wins - especially if it is at the cost of enjoyment of the game.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by summerblues on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:27 am

Tenez wrote:I personally don't see much difference in power between Stan and Fed.
I don't agree.  I think Stan's BH is still much heavier and pacier.  Fed can hit some blistering winners, but have them hit cross-court BH to BH against each other, and Fed will be the one who will be outgunned.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:56 am

The aim of the game is to win. If you kick the ass of the opponent and use a double hand - that's how it is. And amateurs that are competitive do care about winning.  I don't play just for fun. I play to win.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by bogbrush on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:48 am

I played for enjoyment, and I really enjoyed winning. However I took so much more pleasure from hitting the "right" type of shot that I was more than happy to stick to my guns.

I recall a friend who always beat me.... until I played dirty tennis, bunting it back and generally playing extra tough, sacrificing attacking opportunities, leaving the ripping down-the-line pass for a retrieval that extended the rally. It was nice to get the win but I took very little satisfaction because in the end I knew I'd played tennis that gave me no sense of pleasure. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to play mad tennis but I did want to hit with depth, spin, and offensive purpose, not just hack around. In the end I got my tough 5 set win the right way and felt ten times the achievement.

SHBH every day and twice on Sundays.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:45 am

bogbrush wrote:I played for enjoyment, and I really enjoyed winning. However I took so much more pleasure from hitting the "right" type of shot that I was more than happy to stick to my guns.

I recall a friend who always beat me.... until I played dirty tennis, bunting it back and generally playing extra tough, sacrificing attacking opportunities, leaving the ripping down-the-line pass for a retrieval that extended the rally. It was nice to get the win but I took very little satisfaction because in the end I knew I'd played tennis that gave me no sense of pleasure. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to play mad tennis but I did want to hit with depth, spin, and offensive purpose, not just hack around. In the end I got my tough 5 set win the right way and felt ten times the achievement.

SHBH every day and twice on Sundays.

That's how I feel, too.
The win means nothing if it's achieved for thr sake of it.

What amazes me is how many people live and care just for winning, for that little fix.
I suppose it all comes from egos.

Don't get me wrong I HATE losing...but I hate even more playing only to win.

Like there is nothing in between.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:46 am

summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't.
Plus DHBH is not even about ethics - it is perfectly ethical (albeit ugly) to play DHBH.
Also, for me there is a huge difference between pros and amateur club players - it is two different worlds:
Pros should do whatever makes them win (within rules) - doing anything else is in fact borderline "unethical" because if they just do whatever they enjoy even if it costs them in results they are not doing their job properly.
For amateurs it is very different - amateurs play in their spare time and it almost feels a little silly to focus too much on wins - especially if it is at the cost of enjoyment of the game.

That is my position, too.
I just hate the people who allowed DBH shots in the first place.


That "rule" should have never happened as it changed the game completely (for the worse!).

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:12 pm

Winning is a feeling most of us crave for. I play enough unimportant matches with so many people to know that it's in everybody's DNA. It does not matter how useless the win is...it's just something we would fight for due to the millions of years of empirical experience...leading us to where we are now. Thankfully we have also in our DNA and subconscious millions years of losses and the wisest can now put those losses in perspective. So my point is we will see those dhbh for years to come in our clubs because of it but also because those with less talent also want a share of the cake.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Veejay on Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:47 pm

some interesting stats
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-infosys-backhand-march-2017

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:14 pm

Veejay wrote:some interesting stats
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-infosys-backhand-march-2017


Although Federer is still getting round of how good and reliable the BH has become, I think it has already helped a few other aspects of his game: mainly the serve in the way that he is now more relaxed. He is holding the serve with the old ease, even when down in the points.

And a relaxed Federer is an unbeatable Federer.

I remember how stressed he used to look like in his matches against Djokovic..physically fading away as the sets went by...not even being able to serve them out...

Then as a result, that compounding stress lead to missing FH sitters...just a few points that cost him one or two slams in 2015.

There is no way it would have happened with the neo BH.

So now, we can all just lie back and savour every one of his matches.

It's as if he has started a new, exciting career...still discovering what he can do.

He has been such a worthy custodian od that heavenly talent he's been given!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:27 pm

... wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Tenez wrote:But woudl you do the same in your business? Would you sacrify revenue for ethic knowing your competitors don't.
Plus DHBH is not even about ethics - it is perfectly ethical (albeit ugly) to play DHBH.
Also, for me there is a huge difference between pros and amateur club players - it is two different worlds:
Pros should do whatever makes them win (within rules) - doing anything else is in fact borderline "unethical" because if they just do whatever they enjoy even if it costs them in results they are not doing their job properly.
For amateurs it is very different - amateurs play in their spare time and it almost feels a little silly to focus too much on wins - especially if it is at the cost of enjoyment of the game.

That is my position, too.
I just hate the people who allowed DBH shots in the first place.


That "rule" should have never happened as it changed the game completely (for the worse!).

That's nonsense, I'm afraid.  The changes that affected the game negatively were the surface changes, slower balls, and the modern racquets. The racquet head size should have been standardized from the beginning. Bjorn Borg was a master, debatable GOAT, and played double handed in the 70s.  The problems in tennis are sod all to do with DHBH.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:46 pm

Veejay wrote:some interesting stats
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-infosys-backhand-march-2017
I d love to read Daniel's comments on those stats.

Good points made by ... also about the other other advantages this improved BH brings to other aspects of his game.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:06 pm

My comments are in line with how stats work. You can't take 2 tournaments and make an argument based on them. Especially when the opponents are different now - and the surfaces too to some extent.

This is your biggest problem. You don't understand in the slightest how science works.

What we do know for sure is that Federer 2006 was a better player than now.  Everything points to it - especially what matters most.  The Slam titles.  Thumbs Up

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Daniel wrote:...
This is your biggest problem. You don't understand in the slightest how science works.

What we do know for sure is that Federer 2006 was a better player than now.  Everything points to it - especially what matters most.  The Slam titles.  Thumbs Up

yeah...

I however sense that you don't believe what you post. You are just trying to save some credibility.

How old was Nadal in 2006? 20yo? So peak fed in 2006 was beaten by a 20yo? What are the chances of federer being beaten by a 20yo in a slam nowadays?

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