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Federer's Backhand

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by summerblues on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:39 am

Daniel wrote:The aim of the game is to win. If you kick the ass of the opponent and use a double hand - that's how it is. And amateurs that are competitive do care about winning.  I don't play just for fun. I play to win.
Nothing with that - if that is what makes you tick.  If someone enjoys playing DHBH, nothing wrong with that.  If someone enjoys winning, nothing wrong with that either.  But, at the same time, at the amateur level it is far from obvious that the sole aim should be to win.  If you enjoy playing SHBH why would you switch to DHBH just to win?  May as well do your best with SHBH.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by summerblues on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:45 am

Daniel wrote:My comments are in line with how stats work. You can't take 2 tournaments and make an argument based on them. Especially when the opponents are different now - and the surfaces too to some extent.
I do not want to get into the discussion of whether or not Fed is better than he used to be - as I think that discussion is now well past its sell by date.

But specifically about Fed's BH alone.  Would you not agree that - for current conditions - his BH is better than ever?

Purely aesthetically, I actually preferred his old BH with more slices and chipping returns back, but it was clear that in current conditions it was suboptimal.  Don't you agree that his topspin BH is better than ever?  And that he is returning far more aggressively - and also better - from that side than he ever has?

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:34 am

It's impossible to make that claim.  It's certainly better for his 30s.  I agree there.  But I am definitely not going to say the same for his 20s, where he was also using a smaller racquet head. He was clearly timing the ball better in his prime - as nearly all players do. Look at some of the matches from 2006. He is hitting backhands there comparable or even better with a smaller racquet.

But people are judging all this on two tournaments this year, which is just absurd. Bogbrush is dancing about expecting Fed to be WN1 by the end of the year.  There is no restraint here or reflection or real analysis.

Tenez, though, as the ulterior motive to show that this Federer is better than 2006 version - which is factually incorrect in every way.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by bogbrush on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:15 am

Discussions progress much better in a written forum when members can read.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:57 am

Daniel wrote:It's impossible to make that claim.  It's certainly better for his 30s.  I agree there.  But I am definitely not going to say the same for his 20s, where he was also using a smaller racquet head. He was clearly timing the ball better in his prime - as nearly all players do. Look at some of the matches from 2006. He is hitting backhands there comparable or even better with a smaller racquet.

But people are judging all this on two tournaments this year, which is just absurd. Bogbrush is dancing about expecting Fed to be WN1 by the end of the year.  There is no restraint here or reflection or real analysis.

Tenez, though, as the ulterior motive to show that this Federer is better than 2006 version - which is factually incorrect in every way.

Federer's BH is deeper, more consistent and faster now. For most of us that means - better.

Fed played different tennis back then.

Now, i,agine Federer 2017 going back to 2006. Do you think he'd have any trouble vs Nadal?

And then transport Fed 2007 into AO 2017 final.
I am not sure he'd win even with that fresh, young body.




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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:28 pm

Pretty sure he beat Nadal twice on a faster surface at the greatest slam of all in 06 and 07.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:32 pm

bogbrush wrote:Discussions progress much better in a written forum when members can read.

You should try the "I didn't say that literally, so I win" argument on someone who is easily fooled by it.  When you post articles that Fed will be Number 1 and then claim the poster is a smart person, you are directly agreeing with its content. I can't be bothered rounding up your gushing posts over the last few weeks, but carry on and I will. I am a Federer fan, but that doesn't stop me from seeing things in an unclouded way.  That's why I predicted djokovic would not keep up his winning form, as others were falling all over proclaiming he would win another 6 slams easily.  It's also why I know he is still far from finished, despite the opposite assertions being made at the moment. It's why I know Federer is very unlikely to reach WN1 again, and  unlikely to win 20 slams. In fact, if you check the predictions I made about Federer this year, I was rounded on for suggesting he'd reach a slam final.  But my reasoning was he would come back fresh (and he did). A logical assumption.  It's also logical to assume a 35 year old's form can change like the wind.  And I am sure it will.  I am glad Fed managed 18, but all this gushing nonsense all over forums is beginning to irritate me.  

You've taken two tournaments and extrapolated way too much from it. Not as bad as Tenez does, no.  But you have.   Magic

But, don't worry, from now on I will be quoting your exact posts to stop these cop out responses.

http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t1193p350-world-tour-final-2016#67695

Relevant.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by bogbrush on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:28 pm

Please do, but try to understand nuance. It really, really doesn't mean that if you quote someone and say they are smart that you hold the same view. It means that you note the opinion of someone who is smart.

I get it that this is a bit uncomfortable for you now. I guess you'll double down. If you're in a hole you'll keep digging, I kind of admire that!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:13 pm

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. See the other thread and answer the sodding question Winking

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:31 pm

I can't believe how good some of Federer's BHs are now:


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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Daniel on Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:02 pm

I can.  I saw his matches 2004-7 and rewatched many of them.  I can't believe he is doing it at 35 - but he's the greatest.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:05 am

From his latest Saturday column in the Spectator, brought to you like a fresh tennis baguette this morning, it's Taki's take on Fed's bh:

======================================================

"...I watched Federer on television win big at Indian Wells, moving as he has never moved before, even as a young man. The reason he’s beating everyone is an improved backhand. He now takes it earlier and more flat — he almost half-volleys the ones he doesn’t slice — and when you take it early you can go up to the net and finish the point. That is easy to say, but one needs great conditioning to do it. My only worry is that he’s peaked too soon. Winning in March is not the same as winning in July and August, when the big ones come around.


Everyone loves Roger, because he acts like the old-timers used to, and by that I don’t mean John McEnroe (a great television commentator, incidentally). The Swiss had a few lean years, which coincided with the unfailing presence in his box of American Vogue editor Anna Wintour. There was no monkey business, but fashion bullshit makes an athlete take his eye off the ball, no pun intended. Having a Vogue editor in one’s box must be like wearing swimming trunks into battle — incongruous. He’s now surrounded by his parents, wife and twins, and hitting less top spin and winning big...."

=======================================================

ps

all this was incidentally written somewhere in the Alps...

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:41 pm

This is a great eye opener to see:

1 - How Federer's BH was slow compared  to now. Federer won that match but still his BH doesn't hurt Nadal.

2- How Nadal coudl win so many games v Federer, just by sending those poor FH to Fed's BH. That was enough to keep fed in trouble.

3 - The ball coming from Fed's BH is so slow that it allows Nadal to step in and dictate.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:25 am

That is a great clip.
Reminded me of why I never watched Fedal in thise days.
Fed had to spit blood in order to win a point.

He must be having big regrets now over not changing to bigger frame earlier.

Why doesn't some journalist ask him that question?

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by luvsports! on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:47 am

I would if i got the chance!

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by gallery play on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:21 am

Yes, very telling clip. This is what i've said many times (to use a typical OTF phrase Winking ) about Fedal 2017: it's first and foremost the BH, which changed the dynamics between Federer and Nadal.

BTW: they already asked him about it. Federer told he found it hard to invest in big changes as long as he doing well. So it took him the dramatic year 2013 before he was convinced he needed a new racquet. But let's not forget he failed big time on his first try with the 98". He even went back to the 90" at the USO 2013. It's a delicate thing, or like Darren Cahill said:
"Say Federer hits three perfect forehands with the new racket and then puts the same spin on the ball and watches it sail six feet long. That, would be enough to give you a sleepless night."

In hindsite, i think we all agree he should have made the transistion at the end of 2007. In that year there were plenty of signs of the dominance was falling apart.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by ... on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:15 pm

This may sound funny, but I remember in one of my tennis lessons I broke the strings and for some reason didn't bring my spare racquet so had to borrow the coach's.

Apparently it was Roddick's ex-racquet.

In the spec, it was only a tiny bit lighter, but the weight distribution made it feel noticably ligther than my prostaff.

The  best bit was that was one of my finest bh practice times ever...though the racquet head was only 2" bigger (97") It was so much easier, though FH felt a bit strange with it.
I couldn't believe the difference.

So, Fed must have been really, really stubborn nit to want the change for so long.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:52 pm

gallery play wrote:....In hindsite, i think we all agree he should have made the transistion at the end of 2007. In that year there were plenty of signs of the dominance was falling apart.
yes 2007 Minimum. He changed his FH that year making it safer and spinier to cut those zillions of UEs he was giving to the road runners and Nadal in particular.

He adapted quite quickly to the 97inch and would have adapted to the 98 or the 100 even. That was just a bad decision, a very bad one in fact. I guess nobody's perfect. But this is a very professional mistake. It woudl have saved him miles of running, kept him fresher and so on.

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Re: Federer's Backhand

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