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Masters 1000: Paris

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by legendkillar on Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:30 am

Seems everyone is thinking about Feds! 

In an unhealthy manner.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:50 am

Only because tennis has gone down the pan since. Now we see how poor those number 1s are. When their fitness allows them to beat a maestro we have to give them some credit. But when this fitness is all we see and it gets spread to many other contenders we dont even see it....so we are left with nothing but a display of sweat and fear.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:56 am

legendkillar wrote:Seems everyone is thinking about Feds! 

In an unhealthy manner.

Why unhealthy?

Nothing unhealthy about Federer.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:37 am

Yes yes, Nadal the original power pusher, copied by Djoko as the version 2 of the pusher, have ruined the next generation of Tennis players.

Now everyone wants to play like Nadal and DJoko, be at the Gym all day and stay 3m from baseline and wait for other player to make a UE.

Till 2025 no quality tennis.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by legendkillar on Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:14 am

Tenez wrote:Only because tennis has gone down the pan since. Now we see how poor those number 1s are. When their fitness allows them to beat a maestro we have to give them some credit. But when this fitness is all we see and it gets spread to many other contenders we dont even see it....so we are left with nothing but a display of sweat and fear.

Not every generation will produce a Federer. 

However it's the sport that matters and no-one is bigger than it. I want this generation to roll over and that includes Federer with it. I don't view the longevity as some to marvel at, just reflects how slow the upcomers are.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:19 am

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:Only because tennis has gone down the pan since. Now we see how poor those number 1s are. When their fitness allows them to beat a maestro we have to give them some credit. But when this fitness is all we see and it gets spread to many other contenders we dont even see it....so we are left with nothing but a display of sweat and fear.

Not every generation will produce a Federer. 

However it's the sport that matters and no-one is bigger than it. I want this generation to roll over and that includes Federer with it. I don't view the longevity as some to marvel at, just reflects how slow the upcomers are.
Federer is a one-off so we won't  see anything like him again.

Just like we don't hear any new Beethovens or Mozarts.

I agree that no player is bigger than sport, but at the same time I doubt that anyone will ever play that sport like Federer did.

So I want him to play as long as he wants to, as long as he thinks his body allows him to.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Veejay on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:34 am

djokovics confidence is clearly knocked,he is on a downward spiral
we all remember how much of an impact that had over roger in 2008 when he was playing catch up after having had mono
a few big loses made a massive dent,but he came back and made 10 straight grand slam finals again so I reckon its just a phase that novak could come through
as for murray,as much as I hate the guy I have to congratulate him on capitalising on this opportunity
its no easy feat becoming the world no1,anyone who gets there definitely deserves it
I don't however see him as a formidable or legitimate world no1,in fact i struggle to see him hanging onto it for longer then 6 months tops

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:56 am

Fact that Andy waited so long for No1, sure he deserves it.

Djoko got it after Fed and Nadal slipped, so Andy's turn to take it from Djoko.

And since the tour is full of disappointment with players we been hoping for last 5 years to pickup and crush the top 4, let it be Andy at No1.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:37 pm

Jahu wrote:Yes yes, Nadal the original power pusher, copied by Djoko as the version 2 of the pusher, have ruined the next generation of Tennis players.

Now everyone wants to play like Nadal and DJoko, be at the Gym all day and stay 3m from baseline and wait for other player to make a UE.

Till 2025 no quality tennis.
True. And now we have pusher v.3: Murray. If anything it gets worse one notch every time.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:41 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:Only because tennis has gone down the pan since. Now we see how poor those number 1s are. When their fitness allows them to beat a maestro we have to give them some credit. But when this fitness is all we see and it gets spread to many other contenders we dont even see it....so we are left with nothing but a display of sweat and fear.

Not every generation will produce a Federer. 

However it's the sport that matters and no-one is bigger than it. I want this generation to roll over and that includes Federer with it. I don't view the longevity as some to marvel at, just reflects how slow the upcomers are.

I don't believe in those catch phrases. Tennis is certainly in a bad state at the moment and without great players it's bound to die again. Of course I believe some youngsters with a special talent will come again but like in all sports .....those stars actually make the sport!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:37 pm

3 big servers in the last 4. Must be fast. Maybe Rao has a chance.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:07 pm

Yes tennis is in a bad state. I can't remember last time we had such unwatchable semis at a masters 1000.

Good job Federer is coming back in 2017 to ease the pain.

By 2018, youngsters should definitely take over, and most of them are decent players.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by legendkillar on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:27 pm

That was some performance by Isner. 36 winners!!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by legendkillar on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:36 pm

Raonic withdraws!! 

FFS!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:45 pm

Congrats Andy - the new world No 1.  A little anticlimactic this was, but he has finally made it.

Who would have thought it?  With Nole being so far ahead of him for the last few years, and Nole being one week younger, it did not exactly look like he was going to make it anymore.  But he did it.  Not my favorite player, and after 10+ years of seeing him play I would be happy to see someone new at the top, but well done anyway.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by bogbrush on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:14 pm

I honestly can hardly watch tennis these days, I find it a really boring sport at the moment.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:42 pm

Hang in there BB, at least Djoko will be less on my shiny 65 inch curved OLED orgasmic TV  Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Veejay on Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:17 pm

summerblues wrote:Congrats Andy - the new world No 1.  A little anticlimactic this was, but he has finally made it.

Who would have thought it?  With Nole being so far ahead of him for the last few years, and Nole being one week younger, it did not exactly look like he was going to make it anymore.  But he did it.  Not my favorite player, and after 10+ years of seeing him play I would be happy to see someone new at the top, but well done anyway.
its amazing how quickly tennis can change
no one I know saw this coming,not even his early loss at Wimbledon
that was expected after winning 4 straight majors...what a bitter sweet season it has been for Djokovic
and it looks like I will have to eat some crow cause I predicted that murray would never see the no1 ranking
I'm still shocked that he managed to do it without even having to dethrone Djokovic erm

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:50 pm

I still can't stand Murray's game. Sweat and grit. Even Isner has better shots than Murray!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:56 pm

Jahu wrote:Fact that Andy waited so long for No1, sure he deserves it.

Djoko got it after Fed and Nadal slipped, so Andy's turn to take it from Djoko.

And since the tour is full of disappointment with players we been hoping for last 5 years to pickup and crush the top 4, let it be Andy at No1.
Djokovic was beating Nadal and Fed to get to #1. Remember 2011 when he won 7 st. matches against then #1 Nadal?

When is Murray going to beat Djokovic.

Murray has reached #1, but he definitely hasn't dethroned Djokovic. Even in best year ever he hasn't beaten DJokovic except once and lost 2 slam finals absolutely tamely to Djokovic. Murray had not much points to defend from last year. 

Djokovic is off his mark and losing to other players. If Murray had to beat Djokovic, then I don't think he could have done it.


And I I also don't think he can hold on to that #1 for long... He will lose it by Wimbledon 17 end.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:00 pm

Tenez wrote:I still can't stand Murray's game. Sweat and grit. Even Isner has better shots than Murray!

This is all Murray can do best. Don't expect beautiful tennis from him. He can't do it.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:02 pm

bogbrush wrote:I honestly can hardly watch tennis these days, I find it a really boring sport at the moment.

Same sentiments. And I see some more folks at my work having similar views. The top rankers are not the most interesting players to watch, and Wawrinka is too inconsistent.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:07 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Jahu wrote:Fact that Andy waited so long for No1, sure he deserves it.

Djoko got it after Fed and Nadal slipped, so Andy's turn to take it from Djoko.

And since the tour is full of disappointment with players we been hoping for last 5 years to pickup and crush the top 4, let it be Andy at No1.
Djokovic was beating Nadal and Fed to get to #1. Remember 2011 when he won 7 st. matches against then #1 Nadal?

When is Murray going to beat Djokovic.

Murray has reached #1, but he definitely hasn't dethroned Djokovic. Even in best year ever he hasn't beaten DJokovic except once and lost 2 slam finals absolutely tamely to Djokovic. Murray had not much points to defend from last year. 

Djokovic is off his mark and losing to other players. If Murray had to beat Djokovic, then I don't think he could have done it.


And I I also don't think he can hold on to that #1 for long... He will lose it by Wimbledon 17 end.
good points.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:09 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:I still can't stand Murray's game. Sweat and grit. Even Isner has better shots than Murray!

This is all Murray can do best. Don't expect beautiful tennis from him. He can't do it.
True but that goes back to when Fed lost the top spot. Nadal and Djoko's tennis is not more appealing....just less swearing maybe.


Murray has McEnroe bad temper without the talent! The worst of both worlds.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:23 pm

Did anyone hear that in all their encounters Isner has had 40 break points and only won 1?

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Veejay on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:02 pm

so I'm guessing that murray now has to be the favourite for londons WTF?
pity roger isn't around,last time they met there murray only won 1 game!!
god its going to be a horrific week having to endure listening to Andrew castle,john lloyd and sue barker with their pass me the bucket comments .. envy

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm

I don;t think Murray will win in London.


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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Veejay on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:05 pm

Tenez wrote:I don;t think Murray will win in London.

that's what I said about him ever becoming world no1
murray is now the player to beat...believe it or not... Yikes

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:30 pm

Well, where are congrats for Andy?

Bunch of negative people you lot.

Well done to Andy, finally No1.

He will win WTF too, and give the guy credit, nothing special on his game, but well deserved No1.

Bloody haters Laugh

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:48 pm

Jahu wrote:Well, where are congrats for Andy?

Bunch of negative people you lot.

Well done to Andy, finally No1.

He will win WTF too, and give the guy credit, nothing special on his game, but well deserved No1.

Bloody haters Laugh

You are on OTF here. We don;t congratulate sweat, grit and juicers. have we read you congratulate Djoko here? neither have I! Not even when he held the 4 slams!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:54 pm

Djoko has ruined Tennis for last 5 years and the next 10 years.

The faster he wanishes from Tennis, the better.

So Andy is very much acceptable replacement for No1, since nothing better on the horizon.

Thats why his team picture is on this forum logo Winking

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:11 pm

For me they are the same.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:48 am

Jahu wrote:Djoko has ruined Tennis for last 5 years and the next 10 years.
Why?? How?? I know dominance of Djokovic and his brand of "consistent" tennis had got boring, but its not like he destroyed tennis. He wasn't even the first or the only play on tour playing similar % tennis. Only he is better at this than anyone out there including Murray.


Jahu wrote:So Andy is very much acceptable replacement for No1, since nothing better on the horizon.
I'm fine with him being #1, the 'consistent high %' tennis is so boring, its becomes drag if one player starts dominating like Djokovic was. So Murray becoming #1 is not bad in that regard. But I don't have to welcome it. Not every win in tennis is welcomed. 




Djokovic has had been lucky with the lack of quality opponents to challenge him. Holding 4 slams together was good for him but he was helped by the mentioned fact. 


Similarly Murray hasn't even beaten the #1 to get to top. He is just fortunate that others are taking Djokovic out for him and he is enjoying beating them and collecting points. He is having to face different opponents in the recent titles. Raonic, Delpo, Dimitrov Agut, Isner. And all of them reaching there on 'upsets'. Facing Agut, Isner, in 2 consecutive TMS finals has got to be fortunate. He didn't even have to face any top #4 to win WImbledon. Isn't that lucky?


You want to celebrate that? Go ahead, but don't expect everyone to join in or call them haters. You want to be a Murray lover, I have no objections.


I also think he will lose his #1 by wimbledon 17 end. Perhaps even before. 

Murray has perseverance, and in the long run it pays off. Is he playing like the #1 player? Yes. But circumstances have made it easier for him.



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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:53 am

Good post raid.

No, I'm not in Love with Murray, but lets say I'm happy to see him No1 and even more happier Djoko is crushed.

While I don't like his tennis style at all or his self-fighting and swearing, during his career Andy has been at least a correct guy on the tour, balanced on his statements and did his hard work on the shadows of other Top 3.

So when nothing to shout about a payers tennis skills, non-tennis side comes to mind.

He won 8 Tournaments this year, not bad.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:59 am

Why don;t you like Djoko Jahu besides his game of course?

Are you from his "region"?

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:18 am

No, I'm not from his region, but I know that region and people.

He is just a fake little spiteful git, playing on nationalism crap, while hiding his money in MC, and has fueled constantly anti-Fed/Nadal stuff.

Did a 2 months stint at Telekom Srbija a couple of years ago in Belgrade, and got the Tennis picture of Serbija and its people, Fed has more fans than Djoko there  Laugh

On the other hand, Tipsarevic is a cool guy, who you can shake hands with on the street and chat nice and easy.

Djoko is a one lucky uneducated animalistic peasant and will always be, Money and Monaco will not change that.

Can't find any gentler words in this rainy morning smiley

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:59 am

I'm afraid you've told us more about yourself than Djoko here, Yahoo. Laugh

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:00 am

You be jealous as I was there longer than you collectively for last 5 years.

Gastarbeiter  Big Grin

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Slippy on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:42 am

Excellent final yesterday. Isner played one of the best matches in his career but still couldn't quite get past a slightly out of sorts Murray. The slice pass from Murray in the first set was breathtaking and there were plenty of decent points. Good tournament all around I thought.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:15 am

I saw last two sets.

Murray reminded me of the in-form Nadal - his fitness and movement and many matches made him confident enough to put the ball in play and make Isner hit (and miss) one more shot.

At one stage he felt so confident he did the unthinkable and wint down the t on his second serve.

His FH is nothing but a pushing, loopy shot. Against Isner, he could play like that all day long despite being tired.

Against Federer, Nadal and Djokovic he cn't.

Isner got tired in the second set. 

He made many easy mistakes and didn't volley well.
His volleys were soft and easily retrieved by Murray.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by legendkillar on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:30 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Jahu wrote:Fact that Andy waited so long for No1, sure he deserves it.

Djoko got it after Fed and Nadal slipped, so Andy's turn to take it from Djoko.

And since the tour is full of disappointment with players we been hoping for last 5 years to pickup and crush the top 4, let it be Andy at No1.
Djokovic was beating Nadal and Fed to get to #1. Remember 2011 when he won 7 st. matches against then #1 Nadal?

When is Murray going to beat Djokovic.

Murray has reached #1, but he definitely hasn't dethroned Djokovic. Even in best year ever he hasn't beaten DJokovic except once and lost 2 slam finals absolutely tamely to Djokovic. Murray had not much points to defend from last year. 

Djokovic is off his mark and losing to other players. If Murray had to beat Djokovic, then I don't think he could have done it.


And I I also don't think he can hold on to that #1 for long... He will lose it by Wimbledon 17 end.


Well let me ask, how many times did Federer beat the World No.1 before becoming World No.1 between Jan 2003 and Feb 2004? I'll give you a clue. The same amount times Murray did this year. Crikey Federer even lost to Ferrero the then No.1. He didn't beat Nadal to reclaim the No.1 ranking in 2009.

With your statement about Djokovic, if anything I feel enhances his obtaining of the World No.1 ahead of anyone before and after him.

Now before I get bogged down about the usual guff about Federer and his achievements and style of play, remember we are talking on how the No.1 was obtained which is what you eluded to.

End of the day it is a big achievement for Murray. One I didn't see happening, but it has. Part 2 now is how long does he hold on to the ranking now he has it which is what forms a bit part of the greatness associated with No.1's of yesteryear. Will he actually play like a true No.1 or just be one of the few transitional No.1 players.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:51 pm

Are you sure about this LK? I remember Federer kicking Hewitt and Roddick's asses at that time.....and they were the world number 1. In fact Federer beat them all in 2003 masters and only missed finishing wolrd number 1 by a handful of points.

Not close here!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:09 pm

Tenez wrote:I don;t think Murray will win in London.


Yes he is tired and not playing that great, who, then, Stan?

That sandy court in O2 is made for him.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:51 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:I don;t think Murray will win in London.


Yes he is tired and not playing that great, who, then, Stan?

That sandy court in O2 is made for him.
More made for Djoko....according to the record!

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Daniel on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:28 am

This is the weakest era in a long time. Luckily, Murray is coming to the end - like Djok. They are both heading for their 30s.  Thank god.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:38 am

Lol! How wrong have you been proven since we started this discussion. We are going to have soon the top 3 (gold, silver and bronze medal) all over 30yo.

Of course it's a weak era and it proves my point even more. the top 2 are poor shot makers yet at 30 they manage to dominate a lot of talented players on fitness alone.

So you theory that athletes are physically declining at 25 is a joke.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:28 am

I know we've been here before Tenez, but I can't resist picking you up on your 'fitness alone' theory. Your argument is not short of chinks, but the really massive one is return of serve. After the serve, this is arguably the most important shot in tennis and no player, however talented, can afford to neglect it. If Novak and Andy owe their positions to fitness alone, how do you explain their superior return games compared to the rest of the tour? Ignoring SHBH players, who I agree have an inbuilt disadvantage on return, why on earth can't all these more talented players return as well as the top two?

You're quite entitled to your dislike of a more counter punching style of tennis, but until you can credibly address the point above, your theory that Novak and Andy are just a set of lungs and legs is hard to take seriously.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:41 am

Hi Auto,

If I may add my comment here...Nole and Andy are not the only good returners, Federer and Nadal are just as good, look at their H2H with big servers, esp Federer as he played them when the game was faster than now.

The difference is that their (Nole, Andy, Nadal) first shot after a return is usually a percentage one engaging a player in a rally, waiting for an error, or playing clay tennis (on all surfaces) trying to outmanouvre the opponent, rather the shotmaking tennis.

I love counterpunching (best example Simon) tennis, but not the physical kind.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:51 am

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:I know we've been here before Tenez, but I can't resist picking you up on your 'fitness alone' theory. Your argument is not short of chinks, but the really massive one is return of serve. After the serve, this is arguably the most important shot in tennis and no player, however talented, can afford to neglect it. If Novak and Andy owe their positions to fitness alone, how do you explain their superior return games compared to the rest of the tour? Ignoring SHBH players, who I agree have an inbuilt disadvantage on return, why on earth can't all these more talented players return as well as the top two?

You're quite entitled to your dislike of a more counter punching style of tennis, but until you can credibly address the point above, your theory that Novak and Andy are just a set of lungs and legs is hard to take seriously.

Returning doesn't require talent as much as you think. Especially now with those strings, large balls, DHBH, standing further back teh BL and above all this fitness which allows players to "exocet" themselves towards the ball (Agassi expression). All this is of huge help for the returners. You may have notice that servers gets bigger and more powerful too...yet no-one gets close to breaking the serve speed record on tour nowadays because of the conditions.

Try to return Isner serve on the BH with a SHBH close to the baseline a la Federer. Very different than standing further back and having 2 hands on the racket. the standing further helps hugely thanks to the ball slowing down fast after the bounce and having a bigger sweet spot thanks to the DHBH.

"Talented" Ferrer is also an excellent returner, again thanks to his mouvement.

I hope I answered your point above...though I know you do not wish to be proven wrong....who does?

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:52 pm

Essentially it's instinctive versus percentage tennis.

And they are really two different worlds.

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Re: Masters 1000: Paris

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