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World Tour Final: 2016

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Who Is Going To Win WTF?

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Total Votes : 7

World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:57 am

Here we go!

Group Ivan Lendl

Djokovic
Raonic
Monfils
Thiem

Group John McEnroe


Murray
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Cilic


Last edited by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:21 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by luvsports! on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:02 am

I have a bad feeling that Thiem might miss out Sad

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:05 am

It would be good to see Thiem and Goffin, they are both gritty fighters and will certainly be a welcome change from the usual, predictable Ferrer punchbag matches.

It seems that Berdych will end up going and thus only half fullfill my 2016 prediction that Ferrer and he would not qualify for the last 8.

I even read that Ivanisevic is now dreaming of winning a slam with him.

No chance.


So is this maybe Nadal's  chance to finally win WTF.

Nole is injured, skinnier than ever (I saw a photo of him in Milan fundraising event, to my shock even Ana Wintour looks more robust than him now!)

Murray...taking a break after DC...is he injured, tired or TUE-ing dor the last push to also elusive WTF trophy?

Or will it be Stan's?

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:06 am

luvsports! wrote:I have a bad feeling that Thiem might miss out Sad

Why?

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by luvsports! on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:11 am

I think he has lost his mojo from the first half of the season and i fear the bores will capitalise.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:17 am

I hope not, he has Vianna, his home tournament coming, that's now a 500 event.
Don't know how many points he is defending.

What annoys me is that we'll have gutless, choking Cilic there and injured Raonic, possibly even injured Monfils.

Instead of pulling out and giving a chance to fit players, they'll go pushed by their ego and sponsors, cream the cash and we'll have another dull tournament in RR phase.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:27 pm

luvsports! wrote:I have a bad feeling that Thiem might miss out Sad


Fear not, I am more concerned it will be a corpse showing up given how much he has played this year!

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Think Stan, Milos and Kei are safe and more or less there.

Goffin would need to win at least 2 tournaments to have any chance.

Be interesting to see Nadal's schedule up until then.

Berdych making it would be a sad indictment for tennis!

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:02 pm

legendkillar wrote:Think Stan, Milos and Kei are safe and more or less there.

Goffin would need to win at least 2 tournaments to have any chance.

Be interesting to see Nadal's schedule up until then.

Berdych making it would be a sad indictment for tennis!

I'd rather see Berdych than Raonic.
Raonic is the new Berdych plus all facial ticks, shaved haircuts, boring PR-ed interviews in heavy Canadian accent...

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:09 pm

Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by luvsports! on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:11 pm

legendkillar wrote:
luvsports! wrote:I have a bad feeling that Thiem might miss out Sad


Fear not, I am more concerned it will be a corpse showing up given how much he has played this year!

Good point.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:33 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.

Don't think that will be the only factor for empty seats. Me and a few friends who regularly went stopped going in 2013. The same field all the time, bar the occasional surprise entrant. Much of a muchness.

The clambering for change has gained enough momentum over the years.

People are looking for the next superstar of the sport, and not one is emerging.

Dark days lay ahead.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:40 pm

I don't need a new superstar.

Federer is enough for me and I'd be going this year, too if he was playing.

I think I've seen almost all players live now to be able to appreciate them properly when I watch them on tv.

Seeng Federer live is always a treat I can't deny myself, though.

Although I really enjoyed the dramatic heartbeat players' entrance every time, I actually think O2 is not a great venue for tennis, much nicer to watch in daylight on grass or clay.

WTF may even move elsewhere from London because of lack of interest sooner than planned.

I was glad when they extended the stay last year but can't see myself going any more.

Maybe if Nole loosens 100%....

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:57 pm

legendkillar wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.

Don't think that will be the only factor for empty seats. Me and a few friends who regularly went stopped going in 2013. The same field all the time, bar the occasional surprise entrant. Much of a muchness.

The clambering for change has gained enough momentum over the years.

People are looking for the next superstar of the sport, and not one is emerging.

Dark days lay ahead.

Interesting point.

There are two ways:

1) a supertalented new player out of nowhere, even more talented than Federer (is that possible, that is a serious question btw?) as it is hard to differentiate oneself any other way in this physical era with no new technology on the horizon

2) another manufactured superstar like Nadal. This scenario is much easier, ATP just need a consistent, hardworking talent, preferably from the US, if good looking - even better!

or, to change the rules of the game in such a way that it minimises the role of fitness.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Veejay on Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:19 pm

legendkillar wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.

Don't think that will be the only factor for empty seats. Me and a few friends who regularly went stopped going in 2013. The same field all the time, bar the occasional surprise entrant. Much of a muchness.

The clambering for change has gained enough momentum over the years.

People are looking for the next superstar of the sport, and not one is emerging.

Dark days lay ahead.
Laugh
its not all doom and gloom i think...things in tennis can change incredibly quickly..i mean who saw djokovic coming in 2011? most people were thinking it would probably be another year where nadal would dominate,someone over o bleacher report was predicting 7 straight majors,turned into 7 straight loses to djokovic  Laugh
there have been glimpses of the next generation starting to break through,its only a matter of time before they do and i think 2017 will be a season full of surprises

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Veejay on Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:24 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.
im not so sure,its a very very popular event,i know that the few times i went i was meeting people who flew in from various countries just to see a few matches live,regardless of who they saw playing
obviously back then the 2 main attractions where federer and nadal but because its a sold out event,they took whatever they got

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by legendkillar on Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Regardless of who qualifirpes, I think this will be the first year we'll see many empty seats in O2 as a direct consequence of Federer not playing.

I for one am not going this year, though I have been coming regularly every year since it started in 2009.

Shame.

Don't think that will be the only factor for empty seats. Me and a few friends who regularly went stopped going in 2013. The same field all the time, bar the occasional surprise entrant. Much of a muchness.

The clambering for change has gained enough momentum over the years.

People are looking for the next superstar of the sport, and not one is emerging.

Dark days lay ahead.

Interesting point.

There are two ways:

1) a supertalented new player out of nowhere, even more talented than Federer (is that possible, that is a serious question btw?) as it is hard to differentiate oneself any other way in this physical era with no new technology on the horizon

2) another manufactured superstar like Nadal. This scenario is much easier, ATP just need a consistent, hardworking talent, preferably from the US, if good looking - even better!

or, to change the rules of the game in such a way that it minimises the role of fitness.

Oddly enough yesterday I was writing an article talking about Federer's standing in sport in general (gave up on the article because I was writing too much and saw no end in sight) Laugh Laugh Laugh

Naturally I think Nadal was lumped in with Federer given he was the only one who seemed to be able to challenge Federer (albeit early days on Clay mostly) but seeing he could be more than a match for Federer.

I think realistically no-one will be anything close to a Federer, however look backwards in time. Agassi was big for the sport, though not being the best player out there. Sadly a lot of success is needed to really draw public attention to an athlete.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:41 pm

legendkillar wrote:

Oddly enough yesterday I was writing an article talking about Federer's standing in sport in general (gave up on the article because I was writing too much and saw no end in sight) Laugh Laugh Laugh

Naturally I think Nadal was lumped in with Federer given he was the only one who seemed to be able to challenge Federer (albeit early days on Clay mostly) but seeing he could be more than a match for Federer.

I think realistically no-one will be anything close to a Federer, however look backwards in time. Agassi was big for the sport, though not being the best player out there. Sadly a lot of success is needed to really draw public attention to an athlete.
Don't give up!

Just post whatever you wrote so far...I owe Fed a  magical piece in return for all the magic he has given me... it hasn't come yet, but I know it will.

In fact, we all owe him some kind of something.... love

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:52 pm

I think we are going to see great talents and there are some out there who will make the road runners look very average.....but I very much doubt any of them will be able to hit shots without grimacing...a la Federer.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:41 pm

I suppose, this can serve as the WTF thread.

I'll add draw, groups etc when they come out.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:50 pm

Thanks nitb, always a step ahead smiley

Go Djoko gooooo...
.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:32 pm

So the pools are:

Murray, Stan, Nishi, Cilic

Djoko, Raonic, Monfils, Thiem

Much easier for Djoko than Murray.

Murray might not be able to keep his number 1 for long. What happens if Djoko beats Murray in the final?

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:34 pm

I guess it depends on how both get there.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Veejay on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:44 pm

it would be lovely if murray was not able to hang not the raking for longer then 2 weeks/1 tournament but i get the feeling he will start 2017 off as the no1 player in the world

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:06 pm

Maybe Thiem or Monfils can make this WTF interesting.

Stan if in form can do some BH crushing.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:15 pm

I am hoping Nishi can reproduce what he did at the USO. However he is so flaky. But so is Stan and Cilic to some extend...despite their slams count.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 pm

The only problem I see for Djoko is Monfils. He will tire him down.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:19 pm

Don't think any of those 8 will be in form.

Raonic had an injury last week, Nishi must have a niggle, all others as you said flaky, tired, even Thiem was criticized summer time for playing too much tournaments.

But WTF can rise their motive, due to big money per match, hope some good matches.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:15 pm

I have just added groups from ATP website, funny to see them called Lendl and McEnroe!

Even funnier Murray's in McEnroe's one.

Does that  mean he's split with Lendl? :whisltle:

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:58 pm

Murray's group looks trickier as everyone can beat everyone there.

Best of three, a day's rest may see Nishi and Stan do well.

Though, when I watched Nishi-Noke there two years ago, Nishi really struggles to keep his shotmaking for long stretches.

He needs to be more aggressive in O2.

In the other group Monfils was injured and missed Paris, Thiem is just...not as good as Monfils and Raonic is injured...I wish he had pulled out and given a chance to a fit player.

I think Stan will make it to the final.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:36 pm

Order of play for 


Sunday:

Djokovic-Thiem
Raonic-Monfils

&

Monday:

Wawrinka-Nishikori
Murray-Cilic

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:58 pm

Tenez wrote:So the pools are:

Murray, Stan, Nishi, Cilic

Djoko, Raonic, Monfils, Thiem

Much easier for Djoko than Murray.

Murray might not be able to keep his number 1 for long. What happens if Djoko beats Murray in the final?

He is back to number one.
We still have to see if he is going to play at all.

23:0 H2H with his group may tempt him, we'll see...

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:17 pm

Of course he is going to play. He would have had to step down by now if he had no intention to play.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Jahu on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Aren't the 9th and 10th ranked in London too, awaiting any drop outs?

Raonic surely can not play.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:25 pm

Tenez wrote:Of course he is going to play. He would have had to step down by now if he had no intention to play.
Not neccessarily.
Didn't Federer turn up at several big tournaments this year incl Roland Garros, only to announce he won't play. Fans, etc...

Shame Delpo couldn't qualify.

This is such a wishy-washy bunch.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Daniel on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:30 am

Lucky draw for Djoko again.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Jahu on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:38 am

Yeah, 3 disabled people on Djokos side.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:12 am

Jahu wrote:Aren't the 9th and 10th ranked in London too, awaiting any drop outs?

Raonic surely can not play.
I can easily see Raonic play one match and then pull out with Berdych replacing him.

And Berdych always gave Nole good matches in O2.

So this draw may not be as easy as it looks.

This tournament used to be prestigious and now it's a farce with how many turn up injured, which is not a surprise if we take into acccount how physical tennis has become.

Fans are paying the price as always.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:42 am

To be fair this tournament has always been crippled with players injuries as it's the end of the year tournament.

I actually never understood how such a short off season allowed them to be up and fit again.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:06 am

I don't remember that many poor WTFs.

Federer's absence is a big loss.

And I really can't stand these big dull mechanical hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Raonic.

Even Thiem...there is simply too much sweat and spin around in both groups.

The only one I can't work out is Nishi. So much talent, yet he does so little with it.

Hopefully some new names next year.

I'd love Pouille to qualify.
Was a bit disappointed how he folded to Murray in Paris. Didn't need to.
Allowed Murray to unsettle him with his dirty play and yelling. He needs to toughen up and very fast!

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:30 pm

noleisthebest wrote:...And I really can't stand these big dull mechanical hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Raonic.

Agree but having said that I find Djoko and Murray much worse even. So until those 3 mechanical hitters overtake the top 2, I will not complain about them.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:49 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:...And I really can't stand these big dull mechanical hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Raonic.

Agree but having said that I find Djoko and Murray much worse even. So until those 3 mechanical hitters overtake the top 2, I will not complain about them.

I don't find them much worse.

Last few matches they played were quite interesting as they needed a lot of skill to get the ball past each other.

It's when they kill of a shotmaker that's bad.

But I know what you mean.
If they all retired today I would not miss them.

Problem is, strings and spin have infested tennis beyond repair almost. Fitness is just the final nail in the coffin.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Slippy on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:02 am

noleisthebest wrote:I don't remember that many poor WTFs.

Federer's absence is a big loss.

And I really can't stand these big dull mechanical hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Raonic.

Even Thiem...there is simply too much sweat and spin around in both groups.

The only one I can't work out is Nishi. So much talent, yet he does so little with it.

Hopefully some new names next year.

I'd love Pouille to qualify.
Was a bit disappointed how he folded to Murray in Paris. Didn't need to.
Allowed Murray to unsettle him with his dirty play and yelling. He needs to toughen up and very fast!
I watched the whole of that match and it was played in a very good spirit. 

Unfortunately, at the moment, Pouille isn't really at a level to trouble Murray. His game lacks the nuance to put Andy in any discomfort and his returning of Murray's first serve has generally been very poor. Tactically he wasn't really sure what to do and once Murray went into something near top gear he was just blown away and let his head go down. He has only won 10 games in 6 sets against Murray this year - it's a particularly bad matchup for him.

That said, I think he has a chance to get to the top. He has an ease about his play which is a little special, looks to have a good attitude and isn't overly reliant on any one shot. If he keeps working hard, I think he will be top 10 maybe top 5 next year and hopefully pushing for slams the year after.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by Slippy on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:04 am

The last two WTFs have been generally poor. The group matches particularly have been totally lacking drama. Hopefully, the group of death will provide some excitement this year.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by legendkillar on Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:48 am

What a draw for Djokovic!

Rigged!

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:25 am

Slippy wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I don't remember that many poor WTFs.

Federer's absence is a big loss.

And I really can't stand these big dull mechanical hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Raonic.

Even Thiem...there is simply too much sweat and spin around in both groups.

The only one I can't work out is Nishi. So much talent, yet he does so little with it.

Hopefully some new names next year.

I'd love Pouille to qualify.
Was a bit disappointed how he folded to Murray in Paris. Didn't need to.
Allowed Murray to unsettle him with his dirty play and yelling. He needs to toughen up and very fast!
I watched the whole of that match and it was played in a very good spirit. 

From Pouille's end only.

Murray is notorious for his "playing ugly".

Why else does he yell c'mon on opponents UEs.
Try to imagine yourself do it!

You wouldn't , would you?

Slippy wrote:

Unfortunately, at the moment, Pouille isn't really at a level to trouble Murray.

He has all the tools to do it, but not experience, and that will come.
His game is developing and will mature beautifully.

Slippy wrote: His game lacks the nuance to put Andy in any discomfort and his returning of Murray's first serve has generally been very poor. Tactically he wasn't really sure what to do and once Murray went into something near top gear he was just blown away and let his head go down. He has only won 10 games in 6 sets against Murray this year - it's a particularly bad matchup for him.

That said, I think he has a chance to get to the top. He has an ease about his play which is a little special, looks to have a good attitude and isn't overly reliant on any one shot. If he keeps working hard, I think he will be top 10 maybe top 5 next year and hopefully pushing for slams the year after.

Just experience in my opinion and confidence that will come with it.
He has improved enormously in the last year!
(Def more than Evans)
Especially in volleying which is excellent.

Serve is getting better, too.

Pouille plays a great attacking game and all players of that calibre find it hard against retrievers.
The fact he beat Nadal in 5 in US says a lot about his potential.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by BlueClay on Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:07 am

Slippy wrote:

I watched the whole of that match and it was played in a very good spirit. 

Unfortunately, at the moment, Pouille isn't really at a level to trouble Murray. His game lacks the nuance to put Andy in any discomfort and his returning of Murray's first serve has generally been very poor. Tactically he wasn't really sure what to do and once Murray went into something near top gear he was just blown away and let his head go down. He has only won 10 games in 6 sets against Murray this year - it's a particularly bad matchup for him.

That said, I think he has a chance to get to the top. He has an ease about his play which is a little special, looks to have a good attitude and isn't overly reliant on any one shot. If he keeps working hard, I think he will be top 10 maybe top 5 next year and hopefully pushing for slams the year after.
Absolutely right. Pouille has absolutely nothing to trouble Murray with. Murray does everything better than Pouille.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by BlueClay on Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:10 am

noleisthebest wrote:

Just experience in my opinion and confidence that will come with it.
He has improved enormously in the last year!
(Def more than Evans)
Especially in volleying which is excellent.

Serve is getting better, too.

Pouille plays a great attacking game and all players of that calibre find it hard against retrievers.
The fact he beat Nadal in 5 in US says a lot about his potential.
No, Pouille doesn't play much of an attacking game. There's nothing remarkable about Pouille right now. Murray does everything better. The fact that Pouille beat Nadal who is a shadow of the player he once was means nothing. This isn't 2008, 2010 or 2013 Nadal.
For me Pouille is just another top 20 player.

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by BlueClay on Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:12 am

noleisthebest wrote:

I don't find them much worse.

Last few matches they played were quite interesting as they needed a lot of skill to get the ball past each other.

It's when they kill of a shotmaker that's bad.

But I know what you mean.
If they all retired today I would not miss them.

Problem is, strings and spin have infested tennis beyond repair almost. Fitness is just the  final nail in the coffin.
I thought you were a raving Djokovic fan? Now that he's having some trouble you've jumped ship? erm

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:53 am

BlueClay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:

I don't find them much worse.

Last few matches they played were quite interesting as they needed a lot of skill to get the ball past each other.

It's when they kill of a shotmaker that's bad.

But I know what you mean.
If they all retired today I would not miss them.

Problem is, strings and spin have infested tennis beyond repair almost. Fitness is just the  final nail in the coffin.
I thought you were a raving Djokovic fan? Now that he's having some trouble you've jumped ship? erm

Blueclay,

your comments are like your poster name: a thing of the past and...failure!

Change the record and join us in a different tune. Winking

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Re: World Tour Final: 2016

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