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TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

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TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:59 am

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2016/09/doper-s-dupe

Even though we have known about legalised doping for many years and given up hope anything will ever be done about it, it took the new cold war and Russian hackers having their revenge over WADA Rio 2016 humiliation of their nation to blast out biggest names in sport and open the public's eye.

Phenomenal chess move by the Russians.


What are the potential long term benefits for sport and are there going to be any?

Are media going to play dead and let the wind blow over?

I look forward to the next move.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:51 pm

as long as TUE's are protecting them,then no crime has been committed so expect the media to continue reporting that none of these athletes have done anything wrong as TUE's are supposedly thoroughly investigated before they are given ( even though some athletes have been allowed TUE's after taking the drugs ) 
it just begs the question why sharapova never got a TUE for her using meldonium when she claimed to be using it for medical reasons..she would have been continued to be allowed to use it otherwise
its either that or she would never have been allowed a TUE

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:04 pm

That was always my point. Legal or not legal is not the question cause legally one can always justify taking drugs. 

That's why I don't care whether some are legal or not...to me they are simply using enhancing drugs we can tell with the naked eye....like we can tell Andy looks like Jamie's big brother when in fact he is the younger one.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:08 pm

Veejay wrote:as long as TUE's are protecting them,then no crime has been committed so expect the media to continue reporting that none of these athletes have done anything wrong as TUE's are supposedly thoroughly investigated before they are given ( even though some athletes have been allowed TUE's after taking the drugs ) 
it just begs the question why sharapova never got a TUE for her using meldonium when she claimed to be using it for medical reasons..she would have been continued to be allowed to use it otherwise
its either that or she would never have been allowed a TUE
As mentioned many times Sharapova never tried to get away with the drug...she was not aware it was on the list suddenly. 

All points toward the political war I have been talking about and now we have more and more proof of it cause knowing all that she should have never been punished for two years knowing now the extent of cheating behind the curtains.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:23 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:as long as TUE's are protecting them,then no crime has been committed so expect the media to continue reporting that none of these athletes have done anything wrong as TUE's are supposedly thoroughly investigated before they are given ( even though some athletes have been allowed TUE's after taking the drugs ) 
it just begs the question why sharapova never got a TUE for her using meldonium when she claimed to be using it for medical reasons..she would have been continued to be allowed to use it otherwise
its either that or she would never have been allowed a TUE
As mentioned many times Sharapova never tried to get away with the drug...she was not aware it was on the list suddenly. 

All points toward the political war I have been talking about and now we have more and more proof of it cause knowing all that she should have never been punished for two years knowing now the extent of cheating behind the curtains.
if sharapova really needed to use the drug for medical reasons then i believe that she would have kept up to date with whether the drugs would need a TUE or not 
you dont just "assume or presume" when it comes to drugs that are needed where your heath is concerned
sorry i just wont buy that
to me that proves that she never used he drug for medical reasons but rather its performance enhancing abilities

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:02 pm

The whole point Vee is that none of these athletes ever needed any drugs...for any conditions...only to cover up dope.

Not one of them: Sharapova, Williams sisters, Kvitova, Matek Sands, Nadal and every other one whose name will come out.

They are all young peoole in prime of their health.


Those with a real health condition like Dolgopolov can barely compete a few months a year.
And he has had it from day one - blood disorder.


When did all the TUE users develop theirs?

It's all one big circus of hyporcisy.

Russian hackers are only exposing it: you want to mess around with us and call us cheaters...well let's see how "holy" and spotless you are.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:28 pm

yes i know that,i am just pointing out how much sharapova lied but at the same time she isnt any more guilty then any of them hiding behind a TUE to use banned substances for its performance enhancing abilities

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:28 pm

Veejay wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:as long as TUE's are protecting them,then no crime has been committed so expect the media to continue reporting that none of these athletes have done anything wrong as TUE's are supposedly thoroughly investigated before they are given ( even though some athletes have been allowed TUE's after taking the drugs ) 
it just begs the question why sharapova never got a TUE for her using meldonium when she claimed to be using it for medical reasons..she would have been continued to be allowed to use it otherwise
its either that or she would never have been allowed a TUE
As mentioned many times Sharapova never tried to get away with the drug...she was not aware it was on the list suddenly. 

All points toward the political war I have been talking about and now we have more and more proof of it cause knowing all that she should have never been punished for two years knowing now the extent of cheating behind the curtains.
if sharapova really needed to use the drug for medical reasons then i believe that she would have kept up to date with whether the drugs would need a TUE or not 
you dont just "assume or presume" when it comes to drugs that are needed where your heath is concerned
sorry i just wont buy that
to me that proves that she never used he drug for medical reasons but rather its performance enhancing abilities

She shoudl not have assumed......but she assumed it simply because she did not read her email. She used the drug cause though it was perf enhancing it was not listed like you would take an orange juice because it is full of vitamins, or like one takes beetroot juice. If it is not on the list it is not cheating. That's as simple as that.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:22 pm

So this is what WADA's "Think Tank" came up after their meeting in Lauzanne today:

http://aroundtherings.com/site/A__57485/Title__WADA-Holds-First-In-Series-of-Multi-Stakeholder-Think-Tanks/292/Articles

A bland, meaningless statement.
What a waste of time and money.

Sports govermnemt is so currupted. It has always been.
Smug bastards!

Why am I even bothering....

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by bogbrush on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:38 pm

What was Nadals TUEs for? I understand his records have also been hacked & released.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by luvsports! on Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:04 pm

His knees. 
Used tetracosactide.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:20 pm

luvsports! wrote:His knees. 
Used tetracosactide.
so are we to believe that rafael nadal used tetracosactide to diagnose addisons decease?  Laugh

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by luvsports! on Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:41 am

Haha!

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:20 am

luvsports! wrote:His knees. 
Used tetracosactide.

I am not an expert on drugs so looked it up:

" Tetracosactide is used for diagnostic purposes (e.g. in short synacthen test). It is suitable for treatment of adrenal insufficiency of central origin. Synacthen is also being used in treatment of different types of drug registant epilepsia, particularly by pediatric neurologists.

In patients with low cortisol levels or symptoms of adrenocortical insufficiency, tetracosactide can be used to diagnose Addison's disease. A failure for serum cortisol levels to increase after administration of tetracosactide makes a diagnosis of primary adrenocortical insufficiency more likely. An increase in cortisol upon administration of tetracosactide rules out the condition. The test may also be used to assess the function of the adrenal glands after successful treatment for Cushing's syndrome.

Tetracosactide is also used in the opposite situation, when there is aldosterone hypersecretion due to either a unilateral adrenal adenoma (which is treated by surgical removal) or bilateral adrenal hyperplasia (treated by oral spironolactone). A procedure called adrenal venous sampling may be used pre-operatively to localize the source of aldosterone hypersecretion from either adrenal gland. A peripheral intravenous infusion of tetracosactide before and during the procedure stimulates cortisol production and thereby verifies catheter position.


As well as its legitimate medical applications, it has been widely reported that tetracosactide has also been used as an illegal performance-enhancing drug by professional cyclists.It is known to be used as a doping agent to increase the secretion of glucocorticoids by adrenal glands.
"

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:53 am

In his interview for Serbian Blic, Troicki, the well-documented "doper" who never even tested positive, refused to comment on recent developments saying: that it's better he kept quiet or else he may be very vulgar.

Asked about what he and players may expect from Djokovic as the new president od players council he said -..." not much as ITF always has the first and the last say in everything, treating players as "entertainers".

http://sport.blic.rs/tenis/viktor-troicki-za-blic-bolje-da-cutim-o-dopingu-bio-bih-vulgaran/8pbh5fs

So no wonder Toni fitted in so well with his "Good for the Show" philosophy.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:19 pm

i was under the impression that rafael nadal got a TUE for PRP treatments  erm

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote:In his interview for Serbian Blic, Troicki, the well-documented "doper" who never even tested positive, refused to comment on recent developments saying: that it's better he kept quiet or else he may be very vulgar.

Asked about what he and players may expect from Djokovic as the new president od players council he said -..." not much as ITF always has the first and the last say in everything, treating players as "entertainers".

http://sport.blic.rs/tenis/viktor-troicki-za-blic-bolje-da-cutim-o-dopingu-bio-bih-vulgaran/8pbh5fs

So no wonder Toni fitted in so well with his "Good for the Show" philosophy.
not surprising to hear him say that,unfortunately sport is far more about money then the actual game/sport or the athletes

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:57 pm

Veejay wrote:i was under the impression that rafael nadal got a TUE for PRP treatments  erm
Oh no. They made prp perfectly legal for him. No need for TUE.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:35 pm

ok it looks like im going to have to retract my comment about sir bradly wiggins winning the tour de france "clean"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3793476/Sir-Bradley-Wiggins-questions-answer-disgraced-doctor-Geert-Leinders-following-steroid-jabs-leaks.html

its really interesting to see how the athletes in question are reacting,releasing statements to defend their TUE's makes them look even more guilty in my opinion caus if you did nothing wrong then why the need to defend it..its almost like a compulsive liar...they really believe their own lies  Yikes

nadal:

March 2016: "I have been open all my career...I never tried to hide nothing that I did. I did [platelet-rich plasma], and then I did stem cells. The first time with PRP, it worked fantastic, and the second time it was bad. I had to stop playing tennis for seven months....With stem cells, I used it two times on my knees and it worked very well. I am not doing, never did and never [am] going to do something wrong."

September 19, 2016: "If I have taken anything at any point during my career it was because I asked for and was given permission to do so; under that premise, it is not illegal...Never in my life have I taken anything to enhance my performance. It is simply that doctors granted permission for me to take a product to help my knee."


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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:39 pm

venus williams also released a statement 

https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/775795286950211584/photo/1

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:46 pm

looks like the shit is going to shit the fan with all this info coming out
i thought the media would just roll over and try to sell us TUE's as  xmas gifts but the witch hunt is on and the only way this will end is if sir bradly is a sir no more..
waiting to see what comes out for other british athletes especially murray
banning the russians from the olympics is turning out to be a blessing in disguise and could end up being the best thing thats ever happened to the world of sport

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:26 pm

Yes....but when you talk to the typical brits fan he/she thinks they are whiter than white. 

It's difficult to kill idols.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:13 pm

Veejay wrote:looks like the shit is going to hit the fan with all this info coming out
i thought the media would just roll over and try to sell us TUE's as  xmas gifts but the witch hunt is on and the only way this will end is if sir bradly is a sir no more..
waiting to see what comes out for other british athletes especially murray
banning the russians from the olympics is turning out to be a blessing in disguise and could end up being the best thing thats ever happened to the world of sport

I love that expression!
However, I don't think it's going to happen.

I had a quick scan of media and virtually next to nothing.

BBC have this tiny patronising clip towards the bottom of sports page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37421535

I hope Russians have an ace up their sleeve.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:29 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes....but when you talk to the typical brits fan he/she thinks they are whiter than white. 

It's difficult to kill idols.
as seen with lance armstrong the die hards will defend even if the athlete admits to doping but still the truth always ends up having the last laugh 
the good thing about this hack is that even though the most of the media are defending TUE's,the general public are not that stupid or gullible more and more are starting to see right through the transparency 
i remember what it was like 4 -5 years ago to be someone who even hinted at nadal doping,now anyone who defends him is the one who looks like an idiot

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:35 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:looks like the shit is going to hit the fan with all this info coming out
i thought the media would just roll over and try to sell us TUE's as  xmas gifts but the witch hunt is on and the only way this will end is if sir bradly is a sir no more..
waiting to see what comes out for other british athletes especially murray
banning the russians from the olympics is turning out to be a blessing in disguise and could end up being the best thing thats ever happened to the world of sport

I love that expression!
However, I don't think it's going to happen.

I had a quick scan of media and virtually next to nothing.

BBC have this tiny patronising clip towards the bottom of sports page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37421535

I hope Russians have an ace up their sleeve.
the good thing is that not all the media seem to be quite so forgiving,that article in the daily mail has some very damaging info being reported...if more articles like that are being reported to give you the bigger picture rather then trying to make the hackers lookslike the criminals,it will become very hard for WADA to sweep this under the rug
i really hope that the more they condemn these hackers,the more info the hacker leaks  Laugh

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:51 pm

Veejay wrote:
...the good thing about this hack is that even though the most of the media are defending TUE's,the general public are not that stupid or gullible more and more are starting to see right through the transparency 
I'd like it to be the case but that is not what I see or hear when talking to people. 99% of people out there don't know or care rather what is a TUE and when they read about it the only thing they will care about is what all those articles keep repeating: "there is no suggestion any athlete named have done anything wrong" a phrase repeated in loop in all articles about this TUE'S affair.[/quote]

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:32 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:
...the good thing about this hack is that even though the most of the media are defending TUE's,the general public are not that stupid or gullible more and more are starting to see right through the transparency 
I'd like it to be the case but that is not what I see or hear when talking to people. 99% of people out there don't know or care rather what is a TUE and when they read about it the only thing they will care about is what all those articles keep repeating: "there is no suggestion any athlete named have done anything wrong" a phrase repeated in loop in all articles about this TUE'S affair.
[/quote]
you are right the likelihood is that the majority if people probably dont care,but those who follow sport casually i believe are more likely to care enough then not to care at all cause those who follow sport casually also have their idols and athletes they love to hate and would be very happy to see an athlete they hate fall from grace 
i think some people may also feel fooled to see someone break records to only then to find out that that athletes reputation and integrity is questionable 
our social circles are obviously very different cause a lot of people i interact with on a regular basis are surprisingly fairly well informed about all the corruption in sport but thats very understandable

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:55 pm

Well we have a perfect example here: FK (now Daniel). He doesn;t like Murray and Nadal yet he would be the last one to call them drug cheats.

I those TUEs do only one thing....giving us amunition but until something bigger happens it is not going to change the majority of people view..and teh media are doing their best to minimise the impact of such leaks.

Fancy Bears need to find more revealing information.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:12 pm

well i know that daniel hates serena with a passion but i cant recall if i have seen him accuse her of being a drugs cheat,in fact im not entirely sure what his stance on the subject is  but lets hear what he has to say 
the info released by the hackers is definitely ammunition,unfortunately we get so little to help our cause so this is actually very big 
at least now no one can argue that these athletes dont use drugs and are completely clean even if they are claiming its just for medical reasons 
its still in my opinion a real eye opener to whats going on with the athletes behind the scenes

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:19 pm

I go on evidence.  The evidence is lacking and until that comes along it isn't fair to label anyone a drug cheat.  I'd sooner expect it from Nadal though because of what he is like on court and there are a lot of odd things that went on during his career, but it simply isn't enough to declare him a cheat.  As for Murray, I HIGHLY DOUBT he is a drug cheat.  Serena Williams is another who has the on court behaviour and the question marks over her head but in her case she missed a drugs test(?).  I'd say there's more to go on in her case and I wouldn't be surprised... but I haven't labelled her a drug cheat either because again the evidence is simply lacking. On the balance of it I think it's likely Nadal has done it and likely Serena has, and very very unlikely that Fed Murray and Djok have. But justice is based on fact and evidence.  Without that you end up with witch hunts and chaos and conspiracy theories.  It's counterproductive.  And if one day the evidence shows the player in question to be clean, you've made yourself look stupid as well.


And if the article linked to here is true, then yeah, Nadal and Serena shouldn't be able to use those substances. They were given permission to but it opens a whole can of worms.

Russian President Vladimir Putin says the many athletes seeking TUEs means the decision to ban his country’s athletes from the Paralympic Games, on suspicion, was “hypocritical”.
“We don’t approve of the hackers’ action [but] it has helped reveal that people, who took part in the Olympics and looked absolutely healthy, had taken banned medicines giving them an edge in competition,” he said.


He is right. 

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:40 pm

ok fair enough,so your stance is that tUE's shouldnt be allowed for pro athletes?
and what about murray,if it was leaked that he had a TUE for a banned substance would your opinion from very unlikely go to likely? 
or would you still think thats its very unlikely and that he is beyond reproach?
what about the fuentes case where the evidence/proof was ordered by the judge to be destroyed?
putins comments are fair but that doesnt exonerate the russians,they are still guilty  a

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:46 pm

Nah it wouldn't.  He doesn't have anywhere near the same question marks as Nadal or Serena.  But it's all circumstantial anyway.

The fault in this case is allowing banned substances to have an exception.  There should be none. This isn't evidence of deliberate doping - it's not good enough.  Basically, any evidence that would fail in a court of law to convict isn't good enough.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:10 pm

no its not proof but its undeniable that its a possible way for athletes to use banned substances and get away with it,it becomes even more questionable where as in some cases TUE's have been given after the drugs have been taken
i am a little confused why you would quote putin as "right"  who said that athletes at the olympics who looked absolutely healthy were taking the medicines to give them an egde in competition but yet you said that if it came to light that murray had a TUE for a banned substance that it would not change your opinion
was murray not an athlete at the olympics and did he not win gold?

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:13 pm

It would not change my opinion because Murray having treatment he is allowed to have does not = guilty of doping. I can't keep repeating this enough: justice requires evidence. Real evidence that will stand in a court of law. Murray isn't even close to Nadal in terms of even circumstantial evidence either. Show me proof - that's all I am interested in.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:24 pm

Daniel wrote:It would not change my opinion because Murray having treatment he is allowed to have does not = guilty of doping. I can't keep repeating this enough: justice requires evidence. Real evidence that will stand in a court of law. Murray isn't even close to Nadal in terms of even circumstantial evidence either. Show me proof - that's all I am interested in.
if you want to have that point of view thats perfectly fine and youre entitled to it,but dont then post a quote from putin who basically says that healthy athletes are taking the drugs to get and edge claiming that he is right
basically what youre saying is that its not proof or guilty but at the same time youre agreeing that its taken to give the athlete an edge ( wouldnt that guilty of doping? )

can you not see how youre contradicting yourself?

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:15 am

Putin was stating that there is a hypocrisy.  I agree with him.  He is stating an opinion. You're entitled to do that.  There is no contradiction. You're arguing two entirely different matters. I don't agree that anyone should be allowed to use banned substances for any reason - nor does he. But that is not the same thing as using banned substances without permission to gain an advantage.  In order to call someone a doper you must provide evidence. To call someone a hypocrite does not - as it is an opinion and not libel.  Calling a player a doper without evidence is actually illegal.  Understand?

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:37 am

if an athlete is using banned substances for medical reasons they automatically benefit from its performance enhancing abilities and it helps gives them an edge as an athlete..although we cant prove that they dont also need it for medical reasons there is the potential that they can benefit from it in 2 different ways,medically and as a PED
if an athlete who claims to be ill and gets a TUE for a banned substance for medicinal purposes but actually isnt ill and doesnt need it for medical reason,even though they have every right to take the drug cause they claim to need it for medical reasons,they are technically cheating because they arent using it for medical reasons but rather to gain an edge
that is what putin was saying by claiming healthy athletes were using the drugs to gain an edge
yes they are well within their rights but this is a massive flaw in the system where athletes have the potential to abuse and take advantage of TUE's 
of course a TUE isnt the same as using banned substances without permission but its still using banned substances,thats what you cant seem to recognise
the point daniel is that putin in the comment that you quoted,is basically accusing athletes who had TUE's at the olympics dopers cause they were using the drugs to gain and edge and youre saying that he is right but yet if murray had a TUE,you wouldnt accuse him of being a doper,so why does the same principle not apply to murray if he is doing exactly the same thing

calling someone a doper could be just as much of an opinion as calling someone a hypocrite,opinions like that are tried to be prevented from being made by making them a legal matter so its deemed  defamation of character,libel or character assasination,but its still an opinion if its not a fact
if you accuse someone of doping in a court of law you would be expected to provide the evidence to back your claims up or you could be sued for libel or defamation of character
but i dont know why we are even arguing this cause you have no proof that nadal or serena may have doped but yet your opinion is that they most likely have
if you were to stand up in a court of law and said that,the burden of proof would lie with you otherwise your opinion would just be deemed inadmissible 
your opinion on the matter is really no different then anyones else of murray or any other athletes because in both instances neither party have proof in the form of a failed drugs test

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:30 pm

Calling someone a doper is in no way the same as calling someone a hypocrite.  Calling someone a hypocrite does not require proof (and Putin didn't even call an individual a hypocrite) and is given as an opinion. Calling someone a doper requires evidence - especially since it is highly damaging to a reputation.  This isn't an opinion - that's the law. You can argue with that until you are blue in the face, but you re wrong.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:53 pm

i dont really care if you think that i am wrong,because you think that youre right and thats what having an opinon is all about,so apply the same logic in this argument
calling someone a doper and accusing someone of doping are technically 2 different things
one refers to a noun or adjective,the other suggests or refers to the actions committed in a negative or incriminating way 
its the consequences of making an accusation which differs,ie the result of accusing someone of being a doper could end up with litigation 
i could call you a doper,i may have no evidence or nothing to back it up and even though i am probably 100% incorrect its still my opinion which i'm entitled to
but the consequences of having such an opinion when an accusation is made could be far more damaging then just accusing someone of being a hypocrite 
you dont necessarily need proof if you refer to someone as a noun or adjective because thats descriptive but if you accuse them of something you'll most likely be asked wheres the proof?

for the sake of the argument  - i'll just call you a doper..so wheres the law suit?  
and i didnt  even need any evidence to call you one
but if i accused you of being one in a court of law,the burden of proof would lie with me 

opinions are like religion,its very personal..
if you think someone is ugly and thats your opinion,thats your opinion and youre entitled to it
however being an opinionated person who likes to voice their opinion can get you into a lot of trouble because not everyone is going to agree and theres a great chance you could end up offending someone

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:59 pm

Mats Wilander:

http://gulfnews.com/sport/tennis/wilander-nadal-is-no-drugs-cheat-1.1899490


what a slimeball....

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:07 pm

"“I’m not sure there’s been a case in tennis where someone knows they are cheating and are trying to get away with it. Often it just happens by mistake with players being naive"




Laugh Laugh Laugh

willander has just lost all credibility in my opinion 

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:36 pm

no different than saying "we will have a short afternoon, he is going to wrap it up" after Murray led 2 sets to 1 v Nishi in that USO 1/4F.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:49 pm

still no scandal surrounding federer but it does make me wonder how willander would have reacted if the TUE was about federer rather then nadal 
he has never struck me as someone who has as much positive things to say about federer then he does of other players

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:22 am

I have just realised that TUE-ing is now a legal word/euphemism for doping.

Thank you Fancy Bears! Winking

ps

I am still hoping for a Big Bang in all this...

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:30 pm

its amazing how far this subject has come...a few years ago anyone who accused or was suspicious of an athlete was generally regarded as someone who just wanted to tarnish an athletes legacy
but i think since the whole lance armstrong scandal was documented in the media,when people saw the great lengths he went to to protect such a huge lie and all the people lives he ruined in the process,a lot more people are open to the possibility when rumours and circumstantial evidence is floating around

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by bogbrush on Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:43 pm

Veejay wrote:"“I’m not sure there’s been a case in tennis where someone knows they are cheating and are trying to get away with it. Often it just happens by mistake with players being naive"




Laugh Laugh Laugh

willander has just lost all credibility in my opinion 
That happened a long time ago in my book.


Time after time Putin shows that he's simply a far smarter operator than his competitors. I guess you don't get to be head of the KGB unless you're really quite crafty.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by ... on Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:44 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Veejay wrote:"“I’m not sure there’s been a case in tennis where someone knows they are cheating and are trying to get away with it. Often it just happens by mistake with players being naive"




Laugh Laugh Laugh

willander has just lost all credibility in my opinion 
That happened a long time ago in my book.


Time after time Putin shows that he's simply a far smarter operator than his competitors. I guess you don't get to be head of the KGB unless you're really quite crafty .

I thought so, too.
Just compare him to limp European politicians...he couldl eat them all for breakfast...

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Daniel on Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:54 pm

He's also a fighter pilot and has hands-on experience. The only thing Obama, May, Cameron, and Corbyn have had hold of is taxpayers' money and a bar of soap.

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:47 pm

Well the images in this article pretty much sums up my opinion of Putin

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/06/queen-d-day-obama-putin_n_5459920.html

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

Post by Veejay on Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:00 pm

More British athletes from the Olympics have been exposed by the fancy bears hackers
At this rate the entire British Olympic team could be exposed to be using banned substances under TUE's lol

Interesting article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/37382825

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Re: TUE: Truly Unruly Exploitation

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