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Time Violation Penalty Changes Empty Time Violation Penalty Changes

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:25 am

The ATP Board of Directors has approved a rule change whereby a time violation between points (25 seconds) will be penalized in the first instance with a warning, and the second and all subsequent violations by a fault for the server or a point penalty for the receiver. Currently, the rule is a warning and then point penalty for both the server or receiver.

“There’s been a lot of discussion about the amount of time taken between points,” said ATP Executive Chairman and President Brad Drewett. “We believe this modification will give officials a useful tool and allow for more consistent enforcement of the current time violation rule. Although this change will not materially reduce the length of a match, we believe it should have a positive impact on the flow of the match.”

The ATP Board also approved a trial elimination of the service let on the ATP Challenger Tour only, for the first three months of 2013.

“We’re certainly not ready yet to eliminate the service let, but believe a trial at the ATP Challenger level will be a good way to test this initiative in a competitive environment and get feedback from players and the public before deciding if it could be adapted more broadly,” Drewett said.

The new ATP Competition Committee proposed both changes."


Can't wait to see this in practice!

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:33 am

That's clearly the result of those long finals. It's turned people off.

Good find NITB.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:36 am

Well, I hope that's the beginning of more changes in the right direction. I have always believed that tennis lovers of which I'm sure there are one or two among the movers and shakers, were not going to let it get ruined that easily!
I reckon it will be the balls next.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:37 am

Well, I hope so but frankly the rules were fine as they were. It's the implementation of the rules that were wrong.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:41 am

Did you notice much of it during this USO?

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Post by laverfan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:17 am

“Although this change will not materially reduce the length of a match, we believe it should have a positive impact on the flow of the match,” said Drewett.

Who is going to give cojones to the umpires to actually implement this on the court?

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/09/Feature/ATP-Board-Approves-Change-In-Time-Violation-Penalty.aspx

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Post by sphairistike on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:23 am

Weird nitb, what are you happy about as it seems the new rule is less punishing that the current one!? Are we really hoping it will make the umpires apply it as it would be easier on them? Whistle

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:05 am

sphairistike wrote:Weird nitb, what are you happy about as it seems the new rule is less punishing that the current one!? Are we really hoping it will make the umpires apply it as it would be easier on them? Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122

I am happy that it seems that the rule will be implemented. I actually AM really hoping, if ATP didn't want to start implementing it , they would not come out with this.
Us fans notice what's wrong with the game very quickly and want and expect the changes here and now, but the institutions always lag behind, so I'm glad they caught up with what many wanted for what seems a very long time.

We can't ask for more right now, but I'm more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Beggars can't be choosers kind of thing.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:19 pm

I find it interesting that they chose teh end of the 2012 slams to announce it but also a time when Nadal is not playing. I fear that if and when he and his wagons of fans are back "normal" service will resume.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:21 pm

Tenez wrote:I find it interesting that they chose teh end of the 2012 slams to announce it but also a time when Nadal is not playing. I fear that if and when he and his wagons of fans are back "normal" service will resume.

I thought the opposite, by the time he turns up, the umps will get used to it and won't fear him!

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Post by laverfan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Tenez wrote:I find it interesting that they chose teh end of the 2012 slams to announce it but also a time when Nadal is not playing. I fear that if and when he and his wagons of fans are back "normal" service will resume.

.... and this was passed when Nadal is no longer a member of the Players Council. Laugh

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:49 pm

laverfan wrote:
.... and this was passed when Nadal is no longer a member of the Players Council. Time Violation Penalty Changes 2033450363

Yep, that probably helped too I guess.

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
I thought the opposite, by the time he turns up, the umps will get used to it and won't fear him!

I don;t think so because umps never feared Nadal directly. They fear the TDs who might not pick them up in the future and the TDs care about the fans. SO ultimately it's the fans the tennis establishment fears. "Give the crowd what they want" is as true now as it was during the Roman's time.

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Post by Larry Ellison on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:13 pm

Nadal= The People's Champion Time Violation Penalty Changes 273093567



Poor Djokovic, he won't be able to bounce the ball 200 times before each serve now.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:04 pm

Amritia3ee wrote:Nadal= The People's Champion Time Violation Penalty Changes 273093567



Poor Djokovic, he won't be able to bounce the ball 200 times before each serve now.

Which people are we talking about here?

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Post by Tenez on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:26 pm

I think Amri is referring to the 10million Facebook fans and the other 500 millions less vocative.

He has a point here. Time Violation Penalty Changes 364988687

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:45 pm

Tenez wrote:I think Amri is referring to the 10million Facebook fans and the other 500 millions less vocative.

He has a point here. Time Violation Penalty Changes 364988687

Silly me! Why did I not think of that Doh

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Post by Larry Ellison on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:21 pm

Tenez wrote:I think Amri is referring to the 10million Facebook fans and the other 500 millions less vocative.

He has a point here. Time Violation Penalty Changes 364988687
Bubbly

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:00 pm

"The ATP board of directors is going to take a closer look at men's professional tennis with no service lets.

The board has approved the elimination of lets on the Challenger Tour
for the first three months of next year. ATP Executive Chairman Brad
Drewett says the board believes ''a trial at the ATP Challenger level
will be a good way to test this initiative in a competitive environment
and get feedback from players and the public before deciding if it could
be adapted more broadly.''

I say, very interesting!

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:03 pm

Interesting outlook on the topic from S. Tignor, esp B. King.
"The ATP recently announced
one rule change, and one rule experiment, designed to address this
issue. From now on, chair umpires will call able to call a fault, rather
having to dock the player a point, on his second time violation. And at
the Challenger level, service lets will be eliminated in a test run.



The fault call sounds like a good idea, though I think instructing
umpires to begin warning notorious plodders immediately, or even before a
match begins, is still essential. As for playing service lets, this
won’t do much for slow play, but it will increase the amount of luck
involved in any match. One other reason for doing it is that many
players don’t trust the machine that calls service lets; this would take
that out of it. Still, I don’t think this is a rule worth changing. It
is true that World Team Tennis has made the change, in part because
Billie Jean King couldn't see why there should be different rules for
serves and ground strokes. Fair enough, though if we're going to follow
WTT's lead on rule changes, we've got a long way to go. No reason, to my
mind, to start now."

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Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:18 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Interesting outlook on the topic from S. Tignor, esp B. King.
"...As for playing service lets, this won’t do much for slow play, but it will increase the amount of luck
involved in any match.
One other reason for doing it is that many
players don’t trust the machine that calls service lets; this would take
that out of it. Still, I don’t think this is a rule worth changing."



Glad we see it alike.

I cannot think why people woudl want to have more luck involved in a match. It;s like wanting to increase the number of bad bounces on a clay or grass court. Why would we want that?

All that cause a handful of players have abused the time rule no end. I woudl much prefer they cannot choose balls after a let.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:03 pm

Tenez wrote: I woudl much prefer they cannot choose balls after a let.

That's a good idea, I don't know why they never thought of it. Probably does not sound bombastic and "effective" enough.
I reckon Nadal will still be abusing time no mater what.

He's just got that problem of wanting to boss the time on court, I'm so glad Rosol took it to him the way he did. I wish others had more guts and follow do the same.

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Post by laverfan on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:14 pm

Tenez wrote: I woudl much prefer they cannot choose balls after a let.

There are players who serve with a ball-at-a-time. Whistle

noleisthebest wrote:I'm so glad Rosol took it to him the way he did. I wish others had more guts and follow do the same.

Is anyone nominating Rosol for the Nobel Prize for Chemistry... Somersault

... but you are correct, the tour is completely gutless who cannot beat a talentless moonballer... Have you approached the LTA?

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:20 pm

laverfan wrote:
Tenez wrote: I woudl much prefer they cannot choose balls after a let.

There are players who serve with a ball-at-a-time. Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122


they can jolly well stick one in their pocket, that's what it's there for.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:21 pm

laverfan wrote:
... but you are correct, the tour is completely gutless who cannot beat a talentless moonballer... Have you approached the LTA?

Are you having a bad day or stg...calm down LF, make tea (with two sugars today) not war, will you...

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Post by sphairistike on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:38 pm

careful though, the tea has theine, which is effectively the same as caffeine, so maybe hot milk is a better option for our dear LF Time Violation Penalty Changes 3885497126

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Post by laverfan on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
laverfan wrote:
Tenez wrote: I woudl much prefer they cannot choose balls after a let.

There are players who serve with a ball-at-a-time. Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122


they can jolly well stick one in their pocket, that's what it's there for.

Some of them have two already close by. Laugh

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Post by laverfan on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:42 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
laverfan wrote:
... but you are correct, the tour is completely gutless who cannot beat a talentless moonballer... Have you approached the LTA?

Are you having a bad day or stg...calm down LF, make tea (with two sugars today) not war, will you...

Thanks you to you and SpHairIsTike for dietary advice. I am also considering going gluten-free. All future dietary advice welcome. Hug

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:06 pm

Back in September this was just a piece of news.
Now that 2013 ATP season has officially started, it's become a reality.

You'd think that players would've been notified, and just went on with it, but no!
Monfils didn't like being warned about his extra time taking for toweling, so he even threw in a race card saying he sweats more because he is black Time Violation Penalty Changes 2786941968

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=71j6rcmVhjE

Lopez apparently received a penalty on set point.

The new rule only applies to ATP tour, not the slams at the moment. Should be interesting to see how it unfolds.

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Post by sphairistike on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Nice to see the rule has started being applied for real. Let's see if it applies to Nadal, Nole and Murray too... Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122

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Post by Tenez on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:36 pm

Yes....but my problem though is that teh time allowed outside slams is 25s and the games are best of 3....so the time rule really needs to apply for slams (20s) and best of 5. This is where it would make a huge difference,.

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:08 pm

sphairistike wrote:Nice to see the rule has started being applied for real. Let's see if it applies to Nadal, Nole and Murray too... Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122

Apparently the worst offenders at the WTF and in this order were:
Del Potro
Berdych
Murray.

Nole was well within his time. Just thought I'd mention it Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122

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Post by noleisthebest on Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:11 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes....but my problem though is that teh time allowed outside slams is 25s and the games are best of 3....so the time rule really needs to apply for slams (20s) and best of 5. This is where it would make a huge difference,.

ITF will probably follow suit soon. I wonder what 2012 AO final would've been like if that rule was applied.

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Post by sphairistike on Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:11 pm

If the rule had been applied, Fed would have won the SF vs. Nadal (assuming the latter would have passed through Berdych or even got to the QF to start with). Then, who can predict a Fed-Nole final within the time limit, even at AO it is a close call... Time Violation Penalty Changes 3157886161

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Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:09 pm

I remember when watching the first matches between Nadal and Federer (particularly in Rome 06) and Nadal seemed always breathless at the end of the first set.....but for some reason could still go on for 5 and even win it.....that is so much the result of those extra seconds taken between points and EPO....the combination of both give that extra stamina Nadal has been famous for.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:16 pm

The first important occurrence of the is new time-rule was seen today . In the semifinal match between Bagdatis and Dimitrov, the 3rd set TB was at 2-2 when Baggy was penalized a point for his too long time taking. Dimi won the tb by 7point to 5 and that 1 point proved vital. Baggy was as expected very angry, but he must know: rules are rules and must be followed. Its time players learn a lesson. Far too many players have abused this rule so much that it can even decide the outcome of the match.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:20 pm

Murray has backed up this new time rule. But now he wants his own amendments.

"I'm for them being more strict with the time, but I think
they maybe should have increased the time allowed first, because 25
seconds goes by pretty quick,"
.
How long does he want it? Slams its only 20 seconds and it has been since a very long time and no one complained but for some of the recent repeated time-violators.


He adds:

"I also think tennis has changed since the time rule began between
points. The rallies are much, much longer, so therefore it takes longer
to recover.

"I like that there is a time violation in there. I think it'll be
good, but I think starting off with 25 seconds at the beginning was a
bit too much, because players just aren't used to playing at that pace.

Full interview here:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/andy-murray-backs-timewasting-penalty-rule/314057-5-22.html

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:25 pm

Murray the Moaner strikes again!

I'd cut it down to 15 secs for the likes of him if I could Time Violation Penalty Changes 123628122

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Post by summerblues on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:28 pm

I was thinking at the time that Marcos was taking too long getting ready for the next serve but that the referee would surely not have the nerve to make the call. Was very pleasantly surprised.

Overall, I am very happy with the new approach. There are no endless waits between the points while players spend forever toweling, yet the game does not feel rushed either. To be honest, I thought the old rule was good enough, but if the new rule is what it takes for the tour to speed the pace up, so be it.

It remains to be seen how the rule is applied in really important matches. Too bad the slams will not be using this rule, as far as I understand it.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:31 pm

summerblues wrote:
It remains to be seen how the rule is applied in really important matches. Too bad the slams will not be using this rule, as far as I understand it.

It's good that Nadal is out at the moment, as I see him the biggest weight-thrower in the game. Nole will be fine if he gets warned, Murray less so, but still not as bad as Nadal.

Delpo will be interesting.

Anyway, good it's happening, so all those 6 hours of AO final were not in vain after all Time Violation Penalty Changes 364988687

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Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:28 pm

I completly disagree with Murray about extending the time rule between points. The game has not changed. It was like that in teh 70s too. long rallies and players taking too much time and this is why they set the time rule.

Too much time between points really kills it from a spectator's view point. BUt also the whole aim is actually to force more risky shots and those doing the running will have to go for more....and that is one of teh most exciting part in tennis.

SO a big NNNOOOO from me regarding extending the time rule.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 pm

well, he is incapable of playing attacking tennis, so relies heavily on retrieving counter-punching.
There seem to be only two shots in his repertoire at the moment:defensive backhand slice (which is great) and attacking CC forehand which usually last a set and a half.
He needs to change his game thoroughly and I'm not sure he is even thinking about it.
It will be very very interesting to see him play within 25 secs. rule and also if AO are going to do anything to actually enforce the existing 20 sec rule.

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Post by BlueClay on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:04 am

[quote="raiders_of_the_lost_ark"]
He adds:

"I also think tennis has changed since the time rule began between
points. The rallies are much, much longer, so therefore it takes longer
to recover.




So is Roger Federer not playing these longer rallies as well? If the time between points is ok for Federer who is 31 and quite a bit older than these players in their prime, shouldn't it be ok for everybody else? Murray needs to stop whining! Time Violation Penalty Changes 2786941968

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:02 am

Murray is quickly replacing Nadal in more than one department....He really says some odd things, I remember in O2, he kind of said stg to the effect that tennis Federer plays not as good as these long rallies now he has with Nole, he considers that high quality tennis, I suppose it is physically demanding to be pulling fast paced defensive shots from all kinds of positions...strange how he thinks, I wonder how Lendl features in that story sometimes...
I also wonder if some players think that majority of tennis fans actually enjoy that tennis, or he must be convinced they do (all the yes men around him Time Violation Penalty Changes 2786941968 ) otherwise he wouldn't be talking like that and doing his bootcamp style training in Miami....as if he is preparing for a 5000m race not a tennis season.

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Post by legendkillar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:56 pm

Well your a fan of the guy that took long rallies and lungbursting matches to new heights Time Violation Penalty Changes 3157886161

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Post by noleisthebest on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm

legendkillar wrote:Well your a fan of the guy that took long rallies and lungbursting matches to new heights Time Violation Penalty Changes 3157886161

oh, but he did it in style and for a purpose, got rid of the pest and now tennis is on its way to recovery Time Violation Penalty Changes 364988687 , somebody needs to tell Murray the war is over!
On top of it all, he has never moaned about the new rule or doping control like Murray. And he's cut out his time between the points considerably.
There!
My Wooffie moment over Time Violation Penalty Changes 1071211947

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Post by luvsports! on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:34 pm

And he's cut out his time between the points considerably.
dont agree there but hey ho

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Time Violation Penalty Changes Empty Re: Time Violation Penalty Changes

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:46 pm

ATP Chief Talks To Players About Time Violation Rule

ATP chief Brad Drewett will meet with players on Saturday to address concerns over a new rule aimed at speeding up the game that has drawn criticism from professionals on the men's tour.

This year, the ATP are enforcing a regulation that allows players 25 seconds to complete a serve or face a warning and then the loss of a point for a second violation, sparking complaints from players who have fallen foul of the law.

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Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:55 pm

I am stunned by these kind of protests.Well clearly they cannot all complain? THis rule must benefit some over others! And the rule is there to force riskier shots so the risk takers should be happy about it. And we cannot expect to have 5hours matches anymore...it kills the watchability of the match. The 20 and 25s rule speeds the game by reducing the number of long rallies and of course by cutting time between points.

If they don;t enforce it, I swear I won;t watch any match that involves those time wasters.

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Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:01 pm

I would like to know who complained apart from Murray.

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