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ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:15 pm

One can see that after the change of side or after a set break is enough to recharge nadal's batteries. He can hit as hard as in the first set....what's killing those players are the long rallies.....not the length of the match!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:15 pm

Nah, I think that really is it this time.  Nadal would be slaughtered v Djokovic... but monfils has been hitting double faults galore - and his 1st serve is SHOCKINGLY bad. Running about isn't the reason Monfils is losing - it's that he can't hit a 1st serve to save his life and keeps hitting double faults.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:25 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Monfils is not the smartest player, either.
He really doesn't need to go for the lines.

It's not as simple...if you don't go close to the lines, then you do the running!


Nole doesn't go for the lines.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:25 pm

the number of collagen bimbos in MC is staggering. Young and old! Shameless!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:26 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Monfils is not the smartest player, either.
He really doesn't need to go for the lines.

It's not as simple...if you don't go close to the lines, then you do the running!


Nole doesn't go for the lines.

No but as you can see, he last longer! That's his strength!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:27 pm

FedererKing wrote:Nah, I think that really is it this time.  Nadal would be slaughtered v Djokovic... but monfils has been hitting double faults galore - and his 1st serve is SHOCKINGLY bad. Running about isn't the reason Monfils is losing - it's that he can't hit a 1st serve to save his life and keeps hitting double faults.

But that is often a direct result of long rallies.
Your legs feel like jelly.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:30 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Monfils is not the smartest player, either.
He really doesn't need to go for the lines.
It's not as simple...if you don't go close to the lines, then you do the running!
Nole doesn't go for the lines.
No but as you can see, he last longer! That's his strength!
Monfils just does not have a clear thinking head. His anticipation and return are not as good as Nole's either.
Monfils is an immature competitor. Not as bad as Kyrgios, but not far from him either.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by DECIMA on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:35 pm

Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly Bubbly cracker cracker cracker cracker cracker cracker cracker Star Star Star Star Star

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:36 pm

Can we say the fittest won....once again?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:37 pm

Yep....not bad for a declining man!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:50 pm

There is something deeply wrong every time Nadal wins a tournament, makes me feel nauseous.

That is why I hold Federer's uncalled for comment that he was happy for Nadal to  win the ninth RG very seriously.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by DECIMA on Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:59 pm

noleisthebest wrote:There is something deeply wrong every time Nadal wins a tournament, makes me feel nauseous.

That is why I hold Federer's uncalled for comment that he was happy for Nadal to  win the ninth RG very seriously.
Federer is very happy right now, he is another big Nadal fan !! Bubbly Peace Dove

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:33 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:There is something deeply wrong every time Nadal wins a tournament, makes me feel nauseous.

That is why I hold Federer's uncalled for comment that he was happy for Nadal to  win the ninth RG very seriously.
Federer is very happy right now, he is another big Nadal fan !! Bubbly Peace Dove

I know!
He s happier for Nadal to win than Nole...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:38 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
FedererKing wrote:Nah, I think that really is it this time.  Nadal would be slaughtered v Djokovic... but monfils has been hitting double faults galore - and his 1st serve is SHOCKINGLY bad. Running about isn't the reason Monfils is losing - it's that he can't hit a 1st serve to save his life and keeps hitting double faults.

But that is often a direct result of long rallies.
Your legs feel like jelly.

I play a lot of tennis - and no matter how tired I don't play as bad a service game as he did. There is no excuse for a world athlete not being able to hit a first serve in so many games. Zero.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:59 pm

FedererKing wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
FedererKing wrote:Nah, I think that really is it this time.  Nadal would be slaughtered v Djokovic... but monfils has been hitting double faults galore - and his 1st serve is SHOCKINGLY bad. Running about isn't the reason Monfils is losing - it's that he can't hit a 1st serve to save his life and keeps hitting double faults.
But that is often a direct result of long rallies.
Your legs feel like jelly.
I play a lot of tennis - and no matter how tired I don't play as bad a service game as he did. There is no excuse for a world athlete not being able to hit a first serve in so many games. Zero.
Having to deal with a heavily loaded ball coming to you with quite a bit of height before it just drops in, get your feet ready and absorb the energy of the ball in itself is a huge stress.
So just to even keep in a rally with Nadal is very physically exhausting, let alone reading the ball and execute sending it back in such a way that it makes Nadal run.

There is a reason he won all those slams, and it wasn't on fast hitting like Federer.

When I looked at their H2H stat, I was surprised to see that Monfils was 80kg and Nadal 85, despite being almost 10 cm "shorter".

Monfils is a great athlete and quick, but physical strength is not his forte.

He did well to at least make the match competitive for two sets.

He doesn't have anything to beat Nadal with on clay: no weapons and no stamina.

I didn't see the bad service game you talked about, I assume it was not after the changeover.

It's easy to slip for a few minuets like that when you are spent and struggling physically.

Even Federer got his brain clouded against Nole's USO final when he missed some sitters on BPs.

You must be a special player not to be bothered like that. Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:56 am

Nadal wanted the title so much more than Monfils. Monfs was okay just to take a set of Nadal and keep 2 sets very competitive. He was seemingly also having some knee injury. 

The 3rd set, Monf had nothing left to deal with Nadal. But jiust one good set can't deny Nadal. 

On the other hand, Thiem must be gutted, he was dominating his match against Nadal but just couldn't get the points when needed. Still some learning for the young man. It should be useful.

Good win for Nadal, he passed a tough draw.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:03 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:...
On the other hand, Thiem must be gutted, he was dominating his match against Nadal but just couldn't get the points when needed. Still some learning for the young man. It should be useful.

Good win for Nadal, he passed a tough draw.

That's the story of all players versus Nadal...bar Djoko. Close but no cigar!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:09 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:...
On the other hand, Thiem must be gutted, he was dominating his match against Nadal but just couldn't get the points when needed. Still some learning for the young man. It should be useful.

Good win for Nadal, he passed a tough draw.

That's the story of all players versus Nadal...bar Djoko. Close but no cigar!
It can't just be luck.. Nadal often plays the right shot in those crunch times. He doesn't get disheartened by the last point or lose focus. 
The opponent almost always have to win the big points, Nadal won't give them. This is what is so incredible that he was able to play this way since so young.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:22 am

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:...
On the other hand, Thiem must be gutted, he was dominating his match against Nadal but just couldn't get the points when needed. Still some learning for the young man. It should be useful.

Good win for Nadal, he passed a tough draw.

That's the story of all players versus Nadal...bar Djoko. Close but no cigar!
It can't just be luck.. Nadal often plays the right shot in those crunch times. He doesn't get disheartened by the last point or lose focus. 
The opponent almost always have to win the big points, Nadal won't give them. This is what is so incredible that he was able to play this way since so young.

It's not luck. It's lungs! Having to pull the trigger under pressure is tougher mentally than retrieving. That's why Nadal, Djoko and Murray chose early to retrieve.

Look at Nadal, he has the power to hit clean winners from anywhere in the court. But his chance of doing so are diminished under pressure. So he prefers running and put the pressure on his opponent, knowing he can run for ever, makes it even easier on his mind.

But when he faces Djoko he knows that sending his usually moonballs will be retrieved and he will be forced to run too and unlike the others Djoko can run longer. So Nadal has to pull the trigger....and that's where we see his "mental weakness" as he now loses all those important points....including in their last match.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Tenez on Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:27 am

It was also sad to see that Bernardes had no choice but tolerate a 31s av time between points if he wanted to be picked for other finals with Nadal!

very bad!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:23 pm

@noleisthebest

That's just a load of nonsense. These guys are the best in the world - and not serving a 1st serve in 3 games or more is not excusable. He was poor from the start. You'rte just dreaming excuses. Anyone can do it. Facts are what count.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:49 pm

After yesterday's final, I have lost interest in this week's tournaments.

I'll try and catch Paire's and Dolgo's matches before they get knocked out and that's about it for me.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:29 am

Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:
Tenez wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:...
On the other hand, Thiem must be gutted, he was dominating his match against Nadal but just couldn't get the points when needed. Still some learning for the young man. It should be useful.

Good win for Nadal, he passed a tough draw.

That's the story of all players versus Nadal...bar Djoko. Close but no cigar!
It can't just be luck.. Nadal often plays the right shot in those crunch times. He doesn't get disheartened by the last point or lose focus. 
The opponent almost always have to win the big points, Nadal won't give them. This is what is so incredible that he was able to play this way since so young.

It's not luck. It's lungs! Having to pull the trigger under pressure is tougher mentally than retrieving. That's why Nadal, Djoko and Murray chose early to retrieve.

Look at Nadal, he has the power to hit clean winners from anywhere in the court.  for ever, makes it even easier on his mind.
But his chance of doing so are diminished under pressure.
So he prefers running and put the pressure on his opponent, knowing he can run
But when he faces Djoko he knows that sending his usually moonballs will be retrieved and he will be forced to run too and unlike the others Djoko can run longer. So Nadal has to pull the trigger....and that's where we see his "mental weakness" as he now loses all those important points....including in their last match.

Nadal is not just any retriever on those big points. He on many occasions hits winners on the Big points. He may not be the first aggressor against very attacking players like Fed, but given even half-a-chance he does try to pull the trigger and get winner or force an error. His counter attacking game is extremely potent, especially on slow clay.

He on many occasion do surprises the opponent as well on big points.  He often gets the right serve too on big points.

I'm not a Nadal fan but its remarkable how many BPs he is able to save. And it's not just plain retrieving. Murray in that sense is a retriever but Nadal is much different.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:20 pm

Nadal is the ultimate defender - and it's coincided with the slowest courts of all. That's why he has been as successful as he has. But age is robbing him of the extra speed and reflex - and so it's bye bye.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:03 pm

FedererKing wrote:@noleisthebest

That's just a load of nonsense.  These guys are the best in the world - and not serving a 1st serve in 3 games or more is not excusable.  He was poor from the start.  You'rte just dreaming excuses.  Anyone can do it.  Facts are what count.

Why is it not excusable?

Maybe he was injured.

Serve is the most complicated shot in tennis.

Even a slightly raised heartbeat can completely disturb the balance with finely tuned motions.

"Those guys" are not serving your style of slow mid-court club serves FK.
They are aiming for lines and corners at crazy speeds.

It it was that easy, Karlovic would have won 50 slams by now.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:47 pm

Maybe he was injured.
---------

More dreamed excuses.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Autumnleaf on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:20 pm

About Gael Monfils' serving in his own words:

GAEL MONFILS: "the conditions were heavier today. It was tougher to hit big first serves. It was tougher also to open up the court. The effects on the ball were not as obvious. Rafa covers the court well. So I was losing a lot of energy forcing it out. It was not easy."

On how he lost that match with such a devastating scoreline:

GAEL MONFILS: I thought if the two sets are tight and I can pull it out in the first set, anything can happen. In the first set, at 6-5, I didn't play that well, that game. I thought I could do more. There was the second serve let.

What I regret is when he accelerated, I was not able to slow him down. I wasn't able to find something to give him trouble. He was playing faster and I was not feeling as good. I was not able to come up with an answer. He proposed something different, and I didn't find a solution.

When I was down 3-Love, double break, with a champion like him, he was in control. It was too difficult for me. Physically he abused me, so it was partly physical. When he started hitting hard down the line, I had to chip the ball, whereas previously I was able to hit a good forehand in those cases. So he was very good.

6-Love is a bad score, but I had an opponent that became a lot stronger suddenly.

So it's very simple: Nadal got stronger as the match went on, he hit harder. Somewhere along the way Nadal found his magic potion again and his stamina problems of the past months were nowhere to be seen. Monfils didn't get as many free points as he would have hoped for, also because conditions weren't in his favour. He couldn't keep up with Nadal's intensity - he lost.

What a terrible tournament - there you have Novak going out to Vesely and instead of someone exciting winning when the serial winner since what feels like eternity is out, you have Nadal snatching the title by outlasting his opponents as if it were still 2008.

Other huge disappointments: Paire in his match against Murray - what was that? Vesely not backing up his win and losing his next match in awful fashion.

Bright spots: Federer back in the game and looking better than expected, serve not quite at pre-surgery level. Pouille beating Gasquet (although Gasquet probably not fit). Dzumhur upsetting Berdych and almost Raonic as well. LL Granollers with a QF appearance. Thiem with a good match vs. Nadal, although not in his best shape this week. Here's to hope for further improvement.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Monte Carlo

Post by Daniel on Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:16 pm

He didn't hit ANY 1st serve - big or otherwise.  He went around 3 games at one point without anything. He's making excuses, which means he isn't a very good player. A good player knows his faults and addresses them.

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