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Sharapova announces failed drug test

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:24 am

Again Ten you deflect and swerve my question. I couldn't give a toss what wiki says. That is not the issue at hand.

Using your analogy. Common sense. Why would a well known top athlete go out of their way to acquire a drug which has no product licence and is not available in their country of residence and has the properties of ibuprofen (again your analogy) which does and is widely available without prescription? 

You are telling everyone why would a top athlete take such risks and I am asking you why would she go so far for a drug which properties are those of basic over the counter medicine?

A doctor says to you "you can get ibuprofen in any pharmacy up and down the land for your aches and pains or equally buy meldonium, however you would require a prescription and need to buy it internationally"

Common sense Ten!!! Apply it. Clearly the drug has more beneficial properties than that of ibuprofen!

Apologies to Daniel. Didn't mean to drag you in.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:33 am

Thumbs Up

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:38 am

We've been here before, still, in case some have forgotten:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/09/13/us-superstars-serena-and-venus-williams-and-simone-biles-given-d/

/

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:10 pm

legendkillar wrote:Again Ten you deflect and swerve my question. I couldn't give a toss what wiki says. That is not the issue at hand.
So you want me to argue and answer questions to someone who readily says facts are of no interest?


Using your analogy. Common sense. Why would a well known top athlete go out of their way to acquire a drug which has no product licence and is not available in their country of residence and has the properties of ibuprofen (again your analogy) which does and is widely available without prescription? 
You see how biased are your questions? Sharapova and no-one in Asia was going out of their way to get that drug.
You are telling everyone why would a top athlete take such risks and I am asking you why would she go so far for a drug which properties are those of basic over the counter medicine?
Again. Biased and false question. There was NO risk in Sharapova's mind, no more than getting vitamin C. It was not banned!!!! DO you get it????.  She was probably also drinking orange juice before cause it has some great vitamins in it. That's the approach of a professional athlete. No more no less.  

A doctor says to you "you can get ibuprofen in any pharmacy up and down the land for your aches and pains or equally buy meldonium, however you would require a prescription and need to buy it internationally"
Ibu also improves very seriously your fitness. It;s a fact. without it, most players could not line up matches day in day out. The dose they take must also be prescribed by doctors cause the doses are way over those allowed in the drug's posologie. In this case she was taking a drug to favour blood circulation, but the point is it was LEGAL....need I say once more!

Common sense Ten!!! Apply it. Clearly the drug has more beneficial properties than that of ibuprofen!
See above. I actually don;t think so. I use Ibu after and before matches and I am sure many athletes woudl not be able to play without it.

Apologies to Daniel. Didn't mean to drag you in
Don't worry about Daniel. He loves us. He is addicted to free speech forums. (should say "forum" without s as there aren't many like this one.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:54 pm

Bias questions?? LaughLaughLaugh Facts? Says conspiracy corner!!

Or do you mean questions you know the answer for, but don't fit your agenda on this case. Winking

No living person Ten in their right mind would look for drugs elsewhere they couldn't get on their own doorstep. You know it and I know it. You've said all along that Sharapova is risk adverse, and I am stating to you that the most risk adverse option to any athlete is to use something you can get round the corner in a pharmacy. Not new wave logic is it? 

Yes doctors can prescribe ibuprofen. However it's OTC medicine!! Doctors can also advise on doses. The actual acquirement wouldn't require prescription.

Again the comparative you are using Ibuprofen and Medlonium is silly. Blood circulation? Again use Aspirin. Simple. And I agree with you that yes Meldonium was legal and I have no issue with that. I've always stated it was neglect that landed her in the shit.

The issue Ten for most, including me is the reasons she specified. She could've done far less PR damage and said simply failed to read the WADA information provided. Problem is her team like anyone else panics the moment a substance is banned and thus a banned substance in the world of sport equates to performance enhancing and is seen as tainted and because she had been a long term user, she and her team tried to cover up the reason she used it. Which amusingly she didn't need to really as it wasn't banned. Trying to state medical reasons like she did made it look worse and harmed her creditbility more which is the issue Vee and others have had all along.

Let me point something out. There was no sympathy for Gasquet and the cocaine kiss. None. And that was recreational use!

Sharapova gets busted and its criminal and corrupt. I'll move this discussion in the direction yourself and NITB, which will stop the Dr Google nonsense.

The issue is a seemingly light drug is put on the banned list by WADA and low and behold a shed load of Russian athletes get busted. The ban of Meldonium is now perceived as a political one and not scientific. Why? Oh that's right Russians will get busted.

It's cases like this that really make me despair and question Darwin's theory of evolution!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:59 pm

... wrote:We've been here before, still, in case some have forgotten:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/09/13/us-superstars-serena-and-venus-williams-and-simone-biles-given-d/

/
why do you always try to deflect from the discussion by pointing the finger everywhere else  but the culprit being discussed? 
i have yet to hear you call sharapova and the russians out,who have been found guilty of doping offences like you continually try to call the american athletes out which is based only on speculation 
if ever those athletes were caught we would discuss their cases exactly the same way we are discussing sharapova's but thats not being dicussed right now
yes we know that they have TUE's but if sharapova truly had a condition that needed to be treated by meldonium im sure that she would have kept up to date whether the drug needed a TUE and im have do doubt that if she really needed a TUE,being the highest paid female athlete in sport,her sponsors and management would have had no trouble in making that happen for her so that she could continue competing while using the drug 
the fact that she never got a TUE suggests 2 things,there was no condition so she would never have been granted TUE and secondly those who have TUE's could prove that they had a condition that needed to be treated by the specific drugs
so theres no real point in pointing the finger at those who have TUE's cause they could prove that they had a condition hat needed specific drugs which happen to be banned  while you cannot prove that they dont have a condition that needs to be treated with certain banned substances 
if you think that doctors could falsify conditions for athletes to get treatments from banned substances,why didnt sharapova do the same thing?
technically she didnt even need to cause she had a condition right? lol
you can harp on about east vs west all you want but this has nothing to do with her being russian
and for the record it was russians who blew the lid on their own doping scandal


Last edited by Veejay on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:03 pm

legendkillar wrote:Bias questions?? LaughLaughLaugh Facts? Says conspiracy corner!!

Or do you mean questions you know the answer for, but don't fit your agenda on this case. Winking

No living person Ten in their right mind would look for drugs elsewhere they couldn't get on their own doorstep. You know it and I know it. You've said all along that Sharapova is risk adverse, and I am stating to you that the most risk adverse option to any athlete is to use something you can get round the corner in a pharmacy. Not new wave logic is it? 

Yes doctors can prescribe ibuprofen. However it's OTC medicine!! Doctors can also advise on doses. The actual acquirement wouldn't require prescription.

Again the comparative you are using Ibuprofen and Medlonium is silly. Blood circulation? Again use Aspirin. Simple. And I agree with you that yes Meldonium was legal and I have no issue with that. I've always stated it was neglect that landed her in the shit.

The issue Ten for most, including me is the reasons she specified. She could've done far less PR damage and said simply failed to read the WADA information provided. Problem is her team like anyone else panics the moment a substance is banned and thus a banned substance in the world of sport equates to performance enhancing and is seen as tainted and because she had been a long term user, she and her team tried to cover up the reason she used it. Which amusingly she didn't need to really as it wasn't banned. Trying to state medical reasons like she did made it look worse and harmed her creditbility more which is the issue Vee and others have had all along.

Let me point something out. There was no sympathy for Gasquet and the cocaine kiss. None. And that was recreational use!

Sharapova gets busted and its criminal and corrupt. I'll move this discussion in the direction yourself and NITB, which will stop the Dr Google nonsense.

The issue is a seemingly light drug is put on the banned list by WADA and low and behold a shed load of Russian athletes get busted. The ban of Meldonium is now perceived as a political one and not scientific. Why? Oh that's right Russians will get busted.

It's cases like this that really make me despair and question Darwin's theory of evolution!

You underestimate the sane Slavic gene, LK.

I even bring herbal teas from Serbia, picked by my mum's hand.

Why do you think Sharapova never took US citizenship?
She is paying for it now, but I am sure she wouldn't have it any other way.

This is all about politics. Once you see that, all else will fall into place.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Veejay wrote:
... wrote:We've been here before, still, in case some have forgotten:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/09/13/us-superstars-serena-and-venus-williams-and-simone-biles-given-d/

/
why do you always try to deflect from the discussion by pointing the finger everywhere else  but the culprit being discussed? 
if ever those athletes were caught we would discuss their cases exactly the same way we are discussing sharapova's but thats not being dicussed right now
yes we know that they have TUE's but if sharapova truly had a condition that needed to be treated by meldonium im sure that she would have kept up to date whether the drug needed a TUE and im have do doubt that if she really needed a TUE,being the highest paid female athlete in sport,her sponsors and management would have had no trouble in making that happen for her so that she could continue competing while using the drug 
the fact that she never got a TUE suggests 2 things,there was no condition so she would never have been granted TUE and secondly those who have TUE's could prove that they had a condition that needed to be treated by the specific drugs
so theres no real point in pointing the finger at those who have TUE's cause they could prove that they had a condition hat needed specific drugs which happen to be banned  while you cannot prove that they dont have a condition that needs to be treated with certain banned substances 
if you think that doctors could falsify conditions for athletes to get treatments from banned substances,why didnt sharapova do the same thing?
technically she didnt even need to cause she had a condition right? lol
you can harp on about east vs west all you want but this has nothing to do with her being russian
and for the record it was russians who blew the lid on their own doping scandal ]
And tou as a truth loving guy should applaud it.

Just as you should condemn Williams sisters and co. But for some reason you are not.
Would be nice if you finally told us why.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:11 pm

this isnt political,you keep ignoring the fact that it was russians who blew the lid on their own doping scandal,plus you keep ignoring the fact that sharapova dug her own grave by deciding to go public with her failed drugs test.had she kept her big mouth shut i have no doubt that this scandal would have been dealt with privately 
but she thought that she was clever trying to call a press conference to give the impression that she was being completely open and honest
its blew up in her face and now she just looks like a liar 
as for the russian olympic doping scandal,WADA didnt even take notice of the russian couple who tried to expose what was happening in russian sport 
it wasnt until their videos were shown on german tv that WADA decided to react
so please stop saying that this is all politcal,it just makes your argument look false and desperately bias

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:18 pm

why should i condom someone who hasnt been found guilty of doping offences?

have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?
sure we can all speculate but that doesnt = fact
you are so blindly bias its ridiculous,im sure you would have had a serious problem had i condemed sharapova  for being a drugs cheats when she never failed a drugs test and has never been found guilty of doping or using a banned substance but would have been perfectly happy to see me do it to serena or venus 
yes i do applaud those russian for blowing the lid on their own doping scandal just as i would applaud athletes from any country doing the same in their own country 
let me ask you this question...
if anyone had dirt on serena ( being as hated as she is ) dont you think they would have used it by now? 
there are loads of people who would love nothing more then to tear an athlete with that much success down especially if it were true
this woudnt even be an issue with you if serena was russian

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:35 pm

... wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Bias questions?? LaughLaughLaugh Facts? Says conspiracy corner!!

Or do you mean questions you know the answer for, but don't fit your agenda on this case. Winking

No living person Ten in their right mind would look for drugs elsewhere they couldn't get on their own doorstep. You know it and I know it. You've said all along that Sharapova is risk adverse, and I am stating to you that the most risk adverse option to any athlete is to use something you can get round the corner in a pharmacy. Not new wave logic is it? 

Yes doctors can prescribe ibuprofen. However it's OTC medicine!! Doctors can also advise on doses. The actual acquirement wouldn't require prescription.

Again the comparative you are using Ibuprofen and Medlonium is silly. Blood circulation? Again use Aspirin. Simple. And I agree with you that yes Meldonium was legal and I have no issue with that. I've always stated it was neglect that landed her in the shit.

The issue Ten for most, including me is the reasons she specified. She could've done far less PR damage and said simply failed to read the WADA information provided. Problem is her team like anyone else panics the moment a substance is banned and thus a banned substance in the world of sport equates to performance enhancing and is seen as tainted and because she had been a long term user, she and her team tried to cover up the reason she used it. Which amusingly she didn't need to really as it wasn't banned. Trying to state medical reasons like she did made it look worse and harmed her creditbility more which is the issue Vee and others have had all along.

Let me point something out. There was no sympathy for Gasquet and the cocaine kiss. None. And that was recreational use!

Sharapova gets busted and its criminal and corrupt. I'll move this discussion in the direction yourself and NITB, which will stop the Dr Google nonsense.

The issue is a seemingly light drug is put on the banned list by WADA and low and behold a shed load of Russian athletes get busted. The ban of Meldonium is now perceived as a political one and not scientific. Why? Oh that's right Russians will get busted.

It's cases like this that really make me despair and question Darwin's theory of evolution!

You underestimate the sane Slavic gene, LK.

I even bring herbal teas from Serbia, picked by my mum's hand.

Why do you think Sharapova never took US citizenship?
She is paying for it now, but I am sure she wouldn't have it any other way.

This is all about politics. Once you see that, all else will fall into place.

I don't underestimate it.

Sharapova has lived in America since she was 7, so I doubt she was weened on Medldonium before that age!

If it was political, the Russian sporting authorities would've been given the heads up too about the impending ban on Meldonium.

It's a classic case of stupidity!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:46 pm

exactly LK that is a massive flaw in the theory if it all being political

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Emancipator on Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:30 pm

Veejay wrote:have your feelings been hurt daniel? 

for most of this discussion tenez has been focusing purely on meldonium the drug,when it was banned and whether or not its really performance enhancing while for the most part me including others have been focusing on sharapova -the case 
no one is disputing that the drug  had only been recently banned or claimed that its a game changing drug
but these are the facts of the case
she called a press conference to give the impression that she was being open and honest about failing a drug test,its an attempt to gain public trust by letting them think that she is an honest person who never intended to break any doping rule and that this was just an innocent mistake or gross negligence 
but then she lies about the reasons why she was using meldonuim,creates a condition that never existed so now her credibility is already shot and leaves you to question if anything else she is saying us true
further more it comes to light that she never disclosed using meldonium on a doping control form for 10 years!! ( even though the drug was legal ) that is very incriminating and is a clear breach of rules
she claims that she missed the memo that told her that the drug was being banned...but seriously any pro athlete with a condition that needs the drug would go out of their way to make sure they know whether the drug would need a TUE or not,for the simple fact that they would need to continue using the drug
this proves that there as no heath condition cause you dont just assume and presume when it comes to your heath,especially for athletes
her whole story is all one big lie to cover up taking the drug meldonium for whatever performance enhancing ability it was giving her 

if you take all this into consideration,her story doesnt add up and she is telling loads of lies to make it look like a case of gross neglect all while claiming to open and honest,thats shes "fighting for the truth to come out" making it look like she is some kind of innocent victim who has been hounded by a  vicious witch hunt who are after her purely because she is russian 
then on top of it,her sentence is reduced!!


Excellent summary.

Tenez - if not for performance enhancement why else would she be taking it? Or do you really believe her nonsensical story about a heart condition and preventing diabetes and other things (sounds like she's covering all bases)? As a medic I had never heard of this drug before the Sharapova case - that tells me that at the very least it is an obscure medication certainly not standard issue for preventing diabetes. There are no diabetes preventing drugs for 20 something elite athletes. A Family history of diabetes doesn't prompt the taking of 'diabetes preventing drugs'. If you have a strong family history you would look to modify the risk factors - hence more exercise, eat sensibly, lose weight etc. If you happen to fall into the pre-diabetic range (which preceeds full blown diabetes - very unlikely in an 18 - 30 yr old athlete) then the only drug that is used is metformin. Not some obscure drug.

And Meldonium is known to increase oxygen uptake and improve stamina which is exactly why the authorities have now classed it as a PED.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:30 pm

im still wondering what maria is going to take for her "condition" upon returning to tour...lol
seems like the condition disappeared along with most of her doping sentence...
well some the other female players are not happy and are in agreement with many here who thinks the whole situation stinks 
i see that maria is still sticking to her arrogant,its not her fault,unapologetic pathetic lame excuse,place the blame everywhere else -  that the ITF should have PERSONALLY told her that meldonium is being banned
how could she possibly expect anyone to have told her that meldonium was being banned when she never disclosed that he was using the drug on a doping control form
in light of saying that,i think she deserves everything that happened to her,especially her reputation being tarnished  

Sharapova was drawn to face 2015 US Open runner-up Roberta Vinci in her first match since the 2016 Australian Open, which will be played on Wednesday 26 April at the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix.

Sharapova, an ambassador for Porsche and a three-time champion at the Premier-level WTA tournament, was offered a wildcard into the event despite not being allowed on the grounds until Wednesday, the day of her first match.

Sharapova’s ban for using meldonium, a substance which became prohibited on 1 January 2017 but which the Russian has been taking legally for ten years, was originally for two years but was reduced to 15 months after appealing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). 

Vinci, currently ranked world no. 35, has lost both her previous matches with Sharapova in straight sets, getting a total of four games in those two matches.

Sharapova could face Agnieszka Radwanska in the second round, which would be particularly piquant given that her agent, Max Eisenbud, blasted the Pole specifically alongside Caroline Wozniacki, accusing her of trying to having ‘no clue’ and trying to block Sharapova’s return to Grand Slam tennis.

World no. 8 Radwanska had said that Sharapova, who as a currently unranked player would need a wildcard to enter the French Open, should not receive one. 

‘[S]o far she hasn't been invited to play at slams in Paris and London and in my opinion that's how it should remain,’ Radwanska told Poland's sports daily Przeglad Sportowy.

‘She should win her place thanks to good results.’

Porsche Tennis Grand Prix 2017 live stream: WTA tennis live from Stuttgart

The French Tennis Federation have refused to commit themselves on the issue of offering two-time French Open champion Sharapova a wildcard, promising to make a decision during the week of 15 May.

Sharapova has already been offered wildcards by WTA Tour events in Stuttgart, Madrid and Rome.

‘This kind of entry into the tournament should be available only for players who were dropped in the ranking due to injury, illness or other random accident,’ Radwanska said.

‘Not for those suspended for doping. Maria should rebuild her career in a different way, beginning with smaller events.

She wouldn't have a chance for [a wildcard] from my hands [if I was a tournament director].’

Sharapova’s long-time agent Eisenbud, who played a role in her suspension for doping violations when he admitted he failed to check the updated list of banned substances for 2017, hit out furiously at Radwanska’s comments in a statement given to Ben Rothenberg.

‘All these “journeyman” players like Radwanska and Wozniacki who have never won a slam and the next generation passing them. They are smart to try to keep Maria out of Paris,’ Eisenbud wrote.

‘NO Serena, NO Maria, NO Vika, NO Petra, it’s their last chance to win a slam. But they never read the CAS report and they never read paragraph 100 and 101. So they have no clue.’

Caroline Wozniacki had previously called the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix’s decision to offer Sharapova a wildcard ‘disrespectful’, saying

‘I think she's a good draw for tennis, women's tennis in general. But two, I think it's questionable allowing - no matter who it is - a player that is still banned to play a tournament that week.

‘From the tournament side I think it's disrespectful to the other players and the WTA. But it is what it is. Obviously rules are twisted and turned in favour of who wants to do what.’

It’s unknown whether the absence of some of the biggest stars in women’s tennis, as alluded to by Eisenbud, will factor into the FFT’s decision on Sharapova’s wildcard. Victoria ‘Vika’ Azarenka has not yet returned to competition after giving birth to her son Leo, while Petra Kvitova is still working to recover after her left hand was injured and required surgery after a knife attack at her home. News broke just a few days ago that Serena Williams is pregnant with her first child and won’t play again in 2017.

Sharapova has been on a charm offensive ahead of her return to tennis, with multiple high-profile interviews, and has complained that the ITF should have personally and privately warned her that meldonium had been put on the banned substances list. 

If Sharapova beats Vinci and Radwanska at the Porsche Tennis Grand Prix, she could face Dominika Cibulkova – another player who has been critical of her, calling the Russian ‘arrogant, conceited and cold’. She is in the same half of the draw as top seed Angelique Kerber, champion in Stuttgart in 2015 and 2016.

The Porsche Tennis Grand Prix begins on Monday 24 April. 

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:39 pm

eugenie bouchard slams maria sharapova 
calls her a cheater and says that she shouldn't be allowed to play tennis again 

Sharapova's suspension was reduced on appeal and Bouchard, who is competing in Istanbul this week, said of the five-time Grand Slam champion: "I don't think that's right.
"She's a cheater and so to me, I don't think a cheater in any sport should be allowed to play that sport again.

"It's so unfair to all the other players who do it the right way and are true. So I just think the WTA sends the wrong message to young kids: you know, cheat and we'll welcome you back with open arms.
"So I don't think that's right. She's not someone I can say I look up to anymore because it's definitely ruined it for me a little bit."
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/10852533/eugenie-bouchard-slams-wta-over-cheater-maria-sharapova

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Slippy on Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:35 pm

Issuing wild cards to Sharapova is so obviously inappropriate. It's entirely the wrong message. You shouldn't get handouts as a drug cheat - she should have to work her way back up.

Ironically though, the bending over backwards to help her out, does make some of the comments on here about her being picked on because she is Russian look even more ridiculous.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:44 pm

....And others are just credulous and gullible...cause I don't know how one can explained that there hasn't been a single good news coming from Russia in the western media for 3 or 4 years at least whatever they do is being criticised, including fighting Isis!

I am actually convinced that Melodenium was suddenly added to the banned list because it was a drug used by Easterners.
And if you had followed the case you may have noticed that she was no drug cheat. It was concluded that she was " careless" and not taken intentionally.


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Slippy wrote:Issuing wild cards to Sharapova is so obviously inappropriate. It's entirely the wrong message. You shouldn't get handouts as a drug cheat - she should have to work her way back up.

Ironically though, the bending over backwards to help her out, does make some of the comments on here about her being picked on because she is Russian look even more ridiculous.
thank you for pointing that out Slippy

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:15 pm

Tenez wrote:....And others are just credulous and gullible...cause I don't know how one can explained that there hasn't  been a single good news coming from Russia in the western media for 3 or 4 years at least whatever they do is being criticised, including fighting Isis!

I am actually convinced that Melodenium was suddenly added to the banned list because it was a drug used by Easterners.
And if you had followed the case you may have noticed that she was no drug cheat. It was concluded that she was " careless" and not taken intentionally.

even if that were the case,the massive flaw in that theory is that eastern europeans ( along with athletes from every other country) would have been notified that the drug was being banned 
youre making it sound like the drug was being banned  and not a single eastern european athlete was told that the drug was being banned so that they could specifically catch them doping
if the eastern europeans werent told surely they would have said so 
even sharapova admitted that she got the email but "never read it" 
just out of curiosity 
which other athlete from eastern europe has tested positive for meldonium and claimed they were never informed that the drug was being banned?
can you name a few?
if it was WADA's intention to trap the eastern europeans surely they would have caught a few by now

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:27 pm

I am actually convinced that Melodenium was suddenly added to the banned list because it was a drug used by Easterners. 


the other thing about the comment made above is that its basically admitting that Meldonium is performance enhancing and that WADA banned the drug knowing that the russians and eastern europeans were using it as a performance enhancing drug.so by banning the drug they would ultimately screw the russians and eastern europeans over by taking something away from them that was giving them and edge legally
the strange thing is that throughout this entire conversation,youve been questioning whether the drug is even performance enhancing 
so if WADA were setting a trap by banning the drug,why were the eastern europeans and russians (as a whole) even taking the drug in the first place? 
so what is it,is the drug performance enhancing or not? it has to be 1 or the other cause you cant have it both ways

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:21 am

Veejay wrote:I am actually convinced that Melodenium was suddenly added to the banned list because it was a drug used by Easterners. 


the other thing about the comment made above is that its basically admitting that Meldonium is performance enhancing and that WADA banned the drug knowing that the russians and eastern europeans were using it as a performance enhancing drug.so by banning the drug they would ultimately screw the russians and eastern europeans over by taking something away from them that was giving them and edge legally
the strange thing is that throughout this entire conversation,youve been questioning whether the drug is even performance enhancing 
so if WADA were setting a trap by banning the drug,why were the eastern europeans and russians (as a whole) even taking the drug in the first place? 
so what is it,is the drug performance enhancing or not? it has to be 1 or the other cause you cant have it both ways
We are going in circle. Cause like most players could not string matchs without Ibu. Ibu is also a drug, it is also benefitting 1000s of atheletes and yet is it is not classified as PED.

What don't you understand?

Remember the Court of Arbitration for Sport said Sharapova was not an "intentional doper". And I believe 100% that story because not a single top athlete woudl take a banned drug easily detectable. It does not make sense. Do you get it? She has played for 15 years on the tour, yet she was never caught taking drugs. Don't you find it bizarre that she suddenly get caught cause suddenly they decide to ban a drug she was not suspecting of being PED?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:05 am

youre right we are going around in circles
so your argument is that it was being replaced by Ibu? lol ok ...so only eastern europans and russians were using meldonium instead of Ibu?
so if  the drug was being banned all they needed to do is replace meldonium with Ibu,but youre argument is suggesting that it was a trap to catch the Eastern Euopeans... that they were continuing to use Meldonium.Why would they continue to use Mledonium if they were informed that it was being banned by WADA and they could simply just replace it by using Ibu? 

you still havent addressed the point that WADA would have informed professional athletes from all countries that the drug was being banned 
just like maria admitted that an email was sent to inform her that the drug was being banned she just "never happened to read t"
from a legal standpoint they would all have been informed around the same time to avoid 
so explain to me whats the point of banning the drug on purpose because its being used by eastern europeans if the eastern europeans will be informed that the drug is being banned and they could just easily replace using the drug by using Ibu instead? 
i guess there havent been any eastern europeans caught ( trapped ) using meldonium after it was being banned cause if there were you would have named them right?

" not a single top athlete would take a banned drug easily detectable"
but yet we hear of the many cases where athletes re getting caught with viles of nandrolone or testing positive for that steroid 
how do you know that the drug meldonium is easily detectable in a drugs test,is that an actual fact or are you just assuming that it is? 
the drug has just been banned recently 
i wouldnt be so sure to assume that the drug is very easily detectable cause drug testing has generally always been proven to be way being the doping game 
im not saying that there arent tests to detect the drug in a blood or urine sample,im just questioning is its as easily detectable as you claim it is?
so how do you know that,could you let me know please 

this is an important question because it could be one of the reasons why me and TMF believe that she read the email and thought she could continue to use the drug and not be caught
it also suggests that she could have used a masking agent but it didnt work as well as suggesting that she may have used other banned substances in the past but yet somehow managed to pass a drugs test  

She has played for 15 years on the tour, yet she was never caught taking drugs


isnt it your opinion that rafael nadal and serena williams have been doping?
how many years have they been competing professionally,have they been caught taking drugs that we know of? 

yes CAS did recuse sharapova's ban from 2 years to 15 months,they may have said that she isnt an intentional doper but to me that doesnt make sense cause if she wasnt an intentional doper then surely she should be exonerated and deemed innocent and her doping ban not just reduced but instead allow her back to compete immediately 
so why didnt they ?
i also have a feeling that her doping ban was reduced because of pressure from sponsors and brands and companies that she endorses
i dont think that its a coincidence that she was given a wild card to a tournament that was being sponsored by or linked to Porche before her ban from competing professionally was even complete

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:12 am

There is a list on Wiki of athletes been caught and banned using Meldonium and the vast majority are Eastern European....

Clearly this mob aren't blessed with brains!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:06 am

Thanks LK
So I'm guessing that they were all informed that the drug was being banned but decided to continue using it anyway just like I believe Sharapova did
This proves the point that athletes would concur using a drug that is "easily detectable in a drugs test"
It also suggests that the Eastern Europeans were using it as a PED

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:19 am

Veejay wrote:Thanks LK
So I'm guessing that they were all informed that the drug was being banned but decided to continue using it anyway just like I believe Sharapova did
This proves the point that athletes would concur using a drug that is "easily detectable in a drugs test"
It also suggests that the Eastern Europeans were using it as a PED
It is not a PED, that is the point.

Anyway, she is not using it now and doesn't seem to be siffering in her performance at all even after a 15 month ban.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:04 am

Veejay wrote:Thanks LK
So I'm guessing that they were all informed that the drug was being banned but decided to continue using it anyway just like I believe Sharapova did
This proves the point that athletes would concur using a drug that is "easily detectable in a drugs test"
It also suggests that the Eastern Europeans were using it as a PED

I'd like to think they were all informed. Haven't read any of the athletes caught using it suggesting otherwise. Sharapova I've always said was completely guilty of neglect with the information provided to her. I concur with Tenez on that issue alone. For the other athletes, they could've been just as neglectful as she was or just could be a united stance and a middle finger to WADA (political message). Possibly.

Now I don't know where all the other banned athletes reside, so hard to comment or even speculate their reasons for taking it.

Where the argument falls down in Sharapova's case for it being political, she lives in the USA for chuffing sake! So why was she going to great lengths to obtain this drug when simply other alternatives "ibuprofen" are available on her doorstep? If this was a political hit, I seriously doubt she was ever considered collateral. She is arguably the most marketable face in Women's tennis. Backed to the hilt by American sponsors.

I am no expert in the drug. For it's primary or secondary use, but given the lengths Sharapova was going to obtaining it when it was legal speaks volumes.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:16 pm

legendkillar wrote:There is a list on Wiki of athletes been caught and banned using Meldonium and the vast majority are Eastern European....

Clearly this mob aren't blessed with brains!

Or it confirms my very point. It was suddenly added to the list (and according to CAS and Sharapova) and not very clearly communicated to athletes.

If you think* (ref to other thread) you will realise that all points to futher bad image on Russia as a whole but also its sport and their athletes....whereas everything is in place to suffocate news on western athletes. It's obvious to me as I have no interest in taking side.

It's a bit like this Zika virus. Very old news but was brought back to the front page before and during the Brazilian Olympics and then went under the radar again once the olympics were over.

There is a real economic war going on. ...and a more physical one taking shape!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Not very well communicated? I'd go the opposite and say it wasn't very well received!! There are thousands upon thousands of athletes. I don't believe for a second WADA have the time or resources to personally phone them all.

In relation to Russia's bad image, that's a perception of the media to try and enforce that view. If people want to get swallowed up in all that nonsense, let them.

What I will say is that I am not in the business of absolving athletes of their personal responsibility!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:51 pm

legendkillar wrote:Not very well communicated? I'd go the opposite and say it wasn't very well received!! There are thousands upon thousands of athletes. I don't believe for a second WADA have the time or resources to personally phone them all.

In relation to Russia's bad image, that's a perception of the media to try and enforce that view. If people want to get swallowed up in all that nonsense, let them.

What I will say is that I am not in the business of absolving athletes of their personal responsibility!

But it's true, isn't it?

Ever since the cold war...and probably even before that.

Putin is a baddie.Abramovic is not. How come?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:51 pm

legendkillar wrote:
In relation to Russia's bad image, that's a perception of the media to try and enforce that view. If[b] people want to get swallowed up in all that nonsense, let them.
[/b!
The effect on us is much stronger than you think. Look for instance at how Vee is polarised against Trump. Winking
Even though he admits, I believe, that Hilary was very to bad too.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:05 pm

Sounds bad, but I've avoided the politics thread like the plague Laugh Laugh

For me it speaks volumes when voting has become less "lets vote the best candidate" to "who is the lesser of two evils"

If I could live a free life, I would.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:08 pm

... wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Not very well communicated? I'd go the opposite and say it wasn't very well received!! There are thousands upon thousands of athletes. I don't believe for a second WADA have the time or resources to personally phone them all.

In relation to Russia's bad image, that's a perception of the media to try and enforce that view. If people want to get swallowed up in all that nonsense, let them.

What I will say is that I am not in the business of absolving athletes of their personal responsibility!

But it's true, isn't it?

Ever since the cold war...and probably even before that.

Putin is a baddie.Abramovic is not. How come?


It is, however it does work both ways. Eastern does the same to Western. Simply Russia don't give a shit what they world thinks of them and in fairness why should they?

I know little of Putin to comment and same for a Abrahamovic.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:12 pm

Veejay wrote:eugenie bouchard slams maria sharapova 
calls her a cheater and says that she shouldn't be allowed to play tennis again 

Sharapova's suspension was reduced on appeal and Bouchard, who is competing in Istanbul this week, said of the five-time Grand Slam champion: "I don't think that's right.
"She's a cheater and so to me, I don't think a cheater in any sport should be allowed to play that sport again.

"It's so unfair to all the other players who do it the right way and are true. So I just think the WTA sends the wrong message to young kids: you know, cheat and we'll welcome you back with open arms.
"So I don't think that's right. She's not someone I can say I look up to anymore because it's definitely ruined it for me a little bit."
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/10852533/eugenie-bouchard-slams-wta-over-cheater-maria-sharapova


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39734771

Maria is a woman of few words

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by bogbrush on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:29 pm

Genie better watch out in the locker room. If she's in there getting changed, then the place goes quiet and girls hurry for the door, I think she's in trouble.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:49 pm

I'll help Genie, any which way she likes.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:08 pm

I don't think a grafting is going to help her form Jahu Laugh Laugh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:10 pm

Is insemination a better word then grafting?   Laugh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:20 pm

... wrote:
Veejay wrote:Thanks LK
So I'm guessing that they were all informed that the drug was being banned but decided to continue using it anyway just like I believe Sharapova did
This proves the point that athletes would concur using a drug that is "easily detectable in a drugs test"
It also suggests that the Eastern Europeans were using it as a PED
It is not a PED, that is the point.

Anyway, she is not using it now and doesn't seem to be siffering in her performance at all even after a 15 month ban.
then why were they caught using a banned substance that could just as easily been replaced by Ibu?
surely if youre using it as medication rather then a PED you would just stop using it if it was banned and especially if there was another drug that was easily and readily available to treat whatever medical condition youre suffering from 

just out of curiosity,can you actually prove that its not a PED?
i dont personally believe it to be a game changing drug but as TMF pointed out there are some factors which can help boost your performance,which i believe is the reason why to is banned 

i am glad that you pointed that sharapova doesnt seem to be suffering in her performance...her medical condition ( the reason why she claims she was using the drug)  seems to have miraculously disappeared or cured...cause theres been virtually no talk of it since her ban lol
but this is what i dont understand 
why are you and tenez defending and believing someone who has lied and withheld information from a doping control form? 
if she has lied about that,how can you trust of believe anything else she is saying?
lying = covering up, withholding or twisting the truth
why do you have so much sympathy for someone who has tried to lie her way out of failing a drugs test?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:26 pm

Jahu wrote:Is insemination a better word then grafting?   Laugh

Not all. Insinuates you want to impregnate here! You're not a man of that level of commitment Laugh Laugh

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:27 pm

Why you say that? Support me you pharmaceutical git, she'd make me a good hubby smiley

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:28 pm

Doping experts claim it is not PED.

Why she didn't take brufen - it's her choice. Maybe she trusted her motherland medications more.

Worst case scenario look at it as a TUE.

Fancy Brars exposed majority if star Western athletes to use various medications most of which seem to serve for masking PEDs.

And those medications for some reason have not been taken from the list...only the ones used by East Europeans...and before the Olympic Games.

What a coincidence...

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:30 pm

Because sadly it's not sunshine, sandy beaches and sex after kids my friend! Laugh Laugh

I am looking out for you.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:31 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:eugenie bouchard slams maria sharapova 
calls her a cheater and says that she shouldn't be allowed to play tennis again 

Sharapova's suspension was reduced on appeal and Bouchard, who is competing in Istanbul this week, said of the five-time Grand Slam champion: "I don't think that's right.
"She's a cheater and so to me, I don't think a cheater in any sport should be allowed to play that sport again.

"It's so unfair to all the other players who do it the right way and are true. So I just think the WTA sends the wrong message to young kids: you know, cheat and we'll welcome you back with open arms.
"So I don't think that's right. She's not someone I can say I look up to anymore because it's definitely ruined it for me a little bit."
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/10852533/eugenie-bouchard-slams-wta-over-cheater-maria-sharapova


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39734771

Maria is a woman of few words
what did you think she was going to say? try to protest her innocence...lol she already admitted to taking a banned drug
she cant say much cause the players called her out and she has no defence
she deserves to feel the full wrath from other players the same way any other caught doper  and cheater would 
the only reason why i believe CAS tried to brand the whole case as an "unintentional doper" was cause they were probably under pressure from nike and IMG to do some damage control to her reputation which was left in tatters

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:31 pm

God sake, you're really giving me confidence for a marriage...

Ok I stay put for now, thanks smiley

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:36 pm

Jahu wrote:God sake, you're really giving me confidence for a marriage...

Ok I stay put for now, thanks smiley
just go on an in-laws' lawn mowing course, you'll be fine!


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Hahaha LK is the King of that, acting once a week as a good son-in-law.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Jahu on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Actually LK - LawnKing? perfectttt

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:eugenie bouchard slams maria sharapova 
calls her a cheater and says that she shouldn't be allowed to play tennis again 

Sharapova's suspension was reduced on appeal and Bouchard, who is competing in Istanbul this week, said of the five-time Grand Slam champion: "I don't think that's right.
"She's a cheater and so to me, I don't think a cheater in any sport should be allowed to play that sport again.

"It's so unfair to all the other players who do it the right way and are true. So I just think the WTA sends the wrong message to young kids: you know, cheat and we'll welcome you back with open arms.
"So I don't think that's right. She's not someone I can say I look up to anymore because it's definitely ruined it for me a little bit."
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/10852533/eugenie-bouchard-slams-wta-over-cheater-maria-sharapova


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39734771

Maria is a woman of few words
what did you think she was going to say? try to protest her innocence...lol she already admitted to taking a banned drug
she cant say much cause the players called her out and she has no defence
she deserves to feel the full wrath from other players the same way any other caught doper  and cheater would 
the only reason why i believe CAS tried to brand the whole case as an "unintentional doper" was cause they were probably under pressure from nike and IMG to do some damage control to her reputation which was left in tatters


Well it was a telling put down of Bouchard. Clearly hierarchical element in it.

I think CAS's stance is if Sharapova had read the correspondence that she would've ceased to taking Meldonium. Purely speculative I know, but given she has had no previous doping charges, at that this substance has only recently been banned I think lent a degree of sympathy to her case on CAS's behalf.

I think sponsor pressure was more to reduce her ban than the label "unintentional doper"

However, if I follow her reasoning for taking the substance I might stock up on chemo!!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:44 pm

... wrote:Doping experts claim it is not PED.

Why she didn't take brufen - it's her choice. Maybe she trusted her motherland medications more.

Worst case scenario look at it as a TUE.

Fancy Brars exposed majority if star Western athletes to use various medications most of which seem to serve for masking PEDs.

And those medications for some reason have not been taken from the list...only the ones used by East Europeans...and before the Olympic Games.

What a coincidence...
deflecting the conversation away again...every time we we talk about this subject you try to deflect away from it and point the finger elsewhere.. Laugh
now that the drug is banned in sure any pro athlete who has a condition that desperately needs Meldonium to treat it will be granted a TUE 
so who are these doping experts that are claiming that it isnt a PED?
i believe maria didnt take Ibu because she claimed that she had a condition which needed to be treated by Meldonium
but when the story broke the doctors claimed that you would only need to take Meldonium for a few weeks to treat the medical condition,you wouldnt need to take it for 10 years
so why was she taking a drug that didnt need to be taken for more then a few weeks,for 10 years? 
why dont you ever answer my questions NITB
why are you ( as a christian woman) and tenez defending and believing someone who has tried to lie her way out of failing a drugs test?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:55 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:eugenie bouchard slams maria sharapova 
calls her a cheater and says that she shouldn't be allowed to play tennis again 

Sharapova's suspension was reduced on appeal and Bouchard, who is competing in Istanbul this week, said of the five-time Grand Slam champion: "I don't think that's right.
"She's a cheater and so to me, I don't think a cheater in any sport should be allowed to play that sport again.

"It's so unfair to all the other players who do it the right way and are true. So I just think the WTA sends the wrong message to young kids: you know, cheat and we'll welcome you back with open arms.
"So I don't think that's right. She's not someone I can say I look up to anymore because it's definitely ruined it for me a little bit."
http://www.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/10852533/eugenie-bouchard-slams-wta-over-cheater-maria-sharapova


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39734771

Maria is a woman of few words
what did you think she was going to say? try to protest her innocence...lol she already admitted to taking a banned drug
she cant say much cause the players called her out and she has no defence
she deserves to feel the full wrath from other players the same way any other caught doper  and cheater would 
the only reason why i believe CAS tried to brand the whole case as an "unintentional doper" was cause they were probably under pressure from nike and IMG to do some damage control to her reputation which was left in tatters


Well it was a telling put down of Bouchard. Clearly hierarchical element in it.

I think CAS's stance is if Sharapova had read the correspondence that she would've ceased to taking Meldonium. Purely speculative I know, but given she has had no previous doping charges, at that this substance has only recently been banned I think lent a degree of sympathy to her case on CAS's behalf.

I think sponsor pressure was more to reduce her ban than the label "unintentional doper"

However, if I follow her reasoning for taking the substance I might stock up on chemo!!
but what about her condition,surely she was taking the drug because of it  Laugh  so how could she just suddenly stop taking it when she had a condition that needed to  be treated by Meldonium 
see no one even sharpova is buying that excuse anymore   Laugh
i think that labelling her case as an unintentional doper is definitely doing some damage control
whats worse, being called a doper or an unintentional doper,the first sounds guilty the later sounds more like an innocent victim 
NITB should love that phrase..its so politically correct i wonder why she isnt complaining that CAS and everyone else isnt "just say it how it is" 
maria needs to be careful what she says, verbal threats wont work with anyone
i dont think that bouchard is afraid of losing to someone she would call a drugs cheat
she could bring it up every time she loses to sharapova so maria needs to watch her mouth
besides now that maria has come back looking stronger then ever its looking even more suspicious

Veejay

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

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