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Sharapova announces failed drug test

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:58 pm

I didn't have a clue athletes take so many brufens EVERY DAY for years....that is terrible.

Their heads are not healthy.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:52 pm

so what does everyone think of marias comeback?
shes been off tour for this length of time before due to injury and surgery and has returned to some success...but i have a feeling that it wont amount to much this time
i reckon it will be a lot like henins' comeback,she may make another 2 maybe 3 tops grand slam finals but i seriously doubt that she will add another major to her tally 
i suspect that she will probably retire 2 years later

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:10 pm

Or it could give her a second breath and enough motivation to prove a point.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:12 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I didn't have a clue athletes take so many brufens EVERY DAY for years....that is terrible.

Their heads are not healthy.
Typically a sign of time. Everything is reversed. Sport should be a healthy activity but it has become a very unhealthy one.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:24 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:I didn't have a clue athletes take so many brufens EVERY DAY for years....that is terrible.

Their heads are not healthy.
Typically a sign of time. Everything is reversed. Sport should be a healthy activity but it has become a very unhealthy one.
Interesting, I've noticed this in many other areas of life, but now that you mention this, yes it makes sense.

Everything money touches goes that way.
Even with language: "wicked!" now means "good"...

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:34 am

Please excuse my ignorance, but we have 583 athletes here using BANNED substance.

These substances must have been performance enhancing or covering those that are to be banned in the first place.

So we have 583 athletes who get permission to use them.

Then this "meladonium" Sharapova and Russians were using...apparently is not a perfomance enhancing drug in any way...yet it got banned and with it its most high profile user "caught" and punished.

If that's not double standards, I don't know what is.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:33 am

Tenez wrote:But you know LK that all athletes take aspirin and Ibuy everyday almost during the whole of their career, don't you?

I mentioned the case of Steffi who took a minimum of 8 ibuprofen of 400mg each every day!


It's one thing to take Aspirin or Ibuprofen for immediate pain relief and one thing to take it regularly. However, your not in pain and still take it? This is the issue. Taking medication or substance not for it's primary use. Now in the case of Meldonium, I think I am right in your thinking that because of the minimal performance enhancing properties, that this is a larger issue than need be in light of other athletes in the TUE case who are on stronger stuff. Setting aside the political view of what makes up the governing body (WADA) which is a separate issue, what doesn't change is that Meldonium is a banned substance. She got caught and like many others has to face the penalties that come with that. I could say the same in the case of Gasquet. His ingestion of Cocaine wasn't so he could fly around the tennis court the very next day was it? Yet was banned. It wasn't like Maria was popping the odd Meldonium, it was regular and consistent use!

Hell as amateurs we have all been there. Used some form of treatment from the hot power of Deep Heat to the healing powers of the magic sponge! However, I would never be inclined to use Deep Heat on a daily basis! Laugh Laugh

In this case Ten I think you need to separate the offence Maria was charged with (The use of Meldonium) from the political implication (She is Russian thus part of this big Russian bust) hence why she was punished. I think the political element fits more in with the TUE debate.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:54 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Please excuse my ignorance, but we have 583 athletes here using BANNED substance.

These substances must have been performance enhancing or covering those that are to be banned in the first place.

So we have 583 athletes who get permission to use them.

Then this "meladonium" Sharapova and Russians were using...apparently is not a perfomance enhancing drug in any way...yet it got banned and with it its most high profile user "caught" and punished.

If that's not double standards, I don't know what is.
thats what i keep saying...
and this is why i think tenez's argument doesnt make sense
on one side he is questioning meldonium as a performance enhancer,on the other side he believes that the russiasn were set up,the 2 dont add up because if you believe that the russians were set up by banning meldonium then you have to believe that the russians were using it to give them and edge,not for medical reasons 
why were the russians and maria using it?
clearly its a drug that maria felt she was getting exactly what she needed out of it to help get her through matches otherwise if it had no performance enhancing factors,then i dont believe maria or the russians would have used it
its highly unlikely that all those russians had a heart condition..just as unlikely as it was proven that you need to take meldonium for longer then a few weeks,not 10 years
if maria was still under the impression that the drug was legal because she claims that she mistakingly never read the email that told her that the drug would be banned,why did she hide the fact that she was taking it on a doping control form - very incriminating
if maria had gotten a TUE for meldonium,then this wouldnt even be an issue and it would be hard to argue that perhaps she really had a heart condition that needed to be treated by meldonium
the fact that she didnt keep up to date with whether the drug would need a TUE to me proves that there was never a condition to begin with and that she was using the drug for its performance enhancing factors 
or maybe she did consider getting a TUE but didnt pursue it because she wouldnt have been able to prove that there was a condition that needed to be treated by meldonium

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:01 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:But you know LK that all athletes take aspirin and Ibuy everyday almost during the whole of their career, don't you?

I mentioned the case of Steffi who took a minimum of 8 ibuprofen of 400mg each every day!


It's one thing to take Aspirin or Ibuprofen for immediate pain relief and one thing to take it regularly. However, your not in pain and still take it? This is the issue. Taking medication or substance not for it's primary use. Now in the case of Meldonium, I think I am right in your thinking that because of the minimal performance enhancing properties, that this is a larger issue than need be in light of other athletes in the TUE case who are on stronger stuff. Setting aside the political view of what makes up the governing body (WADA) which is a separate issue, what doesn't change is that Meldonium is a banned substance. She got caught and like many others has to face the penalties that come with that. I could say the same in the case of Gasquet. His ingestion of Cocaine wasn't so he could fly around the tennis court the very next day was it? Yet was banned. It wasn't like Maria was popping the odd Meldonium, it was regular and consistent use!

Hell as amateurs we have all been there. Used some form of treatment from the hot power of Deep Heat to the healing powers of the magic sponge! However, I would never be inclined to use Deep Heat on a daily basis! Laugh Laugh

In this case Ten I think you need to separate the offence Maria was charged with (The use of Meldonium) from the political implication (She is Russian thus part of this big Russian bust) hence why she was punished. I think the political element fits more in with the TUE debate.
i have to agree with this,i dont dispute tenez's point that there may be a political agenda against the russians,i just dont think that maria's case is part of that

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:03 pm

I am not a doping expert, but assume brufens, meladonium etc are there to alleviate tendon and muscle inflammation, so not performance enhancing, more to help post match recovery.

To me there is a big difference there.

Eitherway, Americans and Brits are allowed and Russians are not. End of.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I am not a doping expert, but assume brufens, meladonium etc are there to alleviate tendon and muscle inflammation, so not performance enhancing, more to help post match recovery.

To me there is a big difference there.

Eitherway, Americans and Brits are allowed and Russians are not. End of.yes americans and brits have TUE's 
yes americans and brits have TUE's but you cant prove that some of them dont really need the drugs for medical purposes..the only thing we can go by is if the drugs were taken right before better then normal performances or if there are other drugs that could treat the condition 
the russians were busted for wide spread doping and even though i believe that medonium could give an athlete an edge,i seriously doubt that that was the only drug used especially taking into consideration that it was state sponsered

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I am not a doping expert, but assume brufens, meladonium etc are there to alleviate tendon and muscle inflammation, so not performance enhancing, more to help post match recovery.

To me there is a big difference there.

Eitherway, Americans and Brits are allowed and Russians are not. End of.

Not quite. Meldonium is issued as an anticonvulsant whereas Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory. 2 different things.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:52 pm

OK, anticonvulsant probably to alleviate cramping, still not directly performance enhancing like steroids that add mph to your serve and groundstrokes.

Anyway, we have LS who wrote his final papers on performance enhancing topic I think, would be good to hear his view, too.


I saw Sara Errani live in Wimbledon last year...now I want to know what she was on...one had to see it to believe it!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:24 pm

And to clarify, my point is not to defend Sharapova...just to express disgust with double standards with which players are being treated.

If you like politically correct language - it's racist.

And it's also ugly and pathetic from the US to exercise their political power through WADA&ITF.

In fact, it's cowardice.

Why were they trying to rattle Russians before the Olympics by humiliating them with banning their athletes from competing?

They are causing trouble everywhere.

What's next?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:49 pm

im curious to know if hypothetically this situation was reversed and it was the americans who were found to be doing state sponsered doping and the entire american olympic team were banned from competing at the olympics,wold you and tenez be as sympatheitc towards to americans as you are towards the russians?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:17 pm

Americans/NATO have been wrecking and destqbilising the world left right and centre with their bombs, so I am glad Putin is providing some kind of resistance and balance.

Strong Russia is good for Europe and the rest of the world.

Historically Russians never lost a war.

This is not a matter of fancy champaigne socailist debate...most world politicians are on CIA's  payroll, caring more for their bank account than the people who elected them.

I am watching my own fatherland being raped by American funded media. I am sick of it.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:33 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Americans/NATO have been wrecking and destqbilising the world left right and centre with their bombs, so I am glad Putin is providing some kind of resistance and balance.

Strong Russia is good for Europe and the rest of the world.

Historically Russians never lost a war.

This is not a matter of fancy champaigne socailist debate...most world politicians are on CIA's  payroll, caring more for their bank account than the people who elected them.

I am watching my own fatherland being raped by American funded media. I am sick of it.
ok thats a no then...
i dont think that sports and politics should be mixed,even though it often is...to me its the same as religion and politics,they shouldnt mix but unfortunately we live in a world where both are exploited t achieve whatever agenda 
you cant hold american athletes responsible for their governments foreign policy just like you cant hold russian athletes responsible for the malaysian airline flight MH17 that was shot down in the ukrain by pro russian fighters

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:50 pm

Here we go: American intelligence agency accuses Russian Government for hacking into US organisations.

Everyone still convinced this is not political?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-government-officially-accuses-russia-of-hacking-campaign-to-influence-elections/2016/10/07/4e0b9654-8cbf-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:56 am

noleisthebest wrote:Here we go: American intelligence agency accuses Russian Government for hacking into US organisations.

Everyone still convinced this is not political?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-government-officially-accuses-russia-of-hacking-campaign-to-influence-elections/2016/10/07/4e0b9654-8cbf-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html
yes there is "tension" between the states and russia or the west and russia...but what does that article and situation have to do with sport? i dont believe that it proves anything related either the russians being set up or banning the whole russian olympic team from competing a the olympics

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:39 am

like me,sam stouser isnt buying maria sharapova's lame excuse either

"I can’t believe it, actually,” Stosur said. “I don’t even know what to say ... I don’t know how you can get away with that excuse and have that overturned ... I think it’s remarkable that you can use that excuse and get away with it ... It really sets a bad precedence for athletes moving forward, where you can almost put your hands up and say it was not my fault."

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016/10/samantha-stosur-maria-sharapova-meldonium-itf/61647/

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:53 am

Well, that's really funny coming from Stosur, the epitome of graceful, ladylike physique...I womder what TUEs she is on...

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:30 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Well, that's really funny coming from Stosur, the epitome of graceful, ladylike physique...I womder what TUEs she is on...
it may be hypocritical of stouser with the suspicion surrounding her but she is absolutely right,its ridiculous that ANYONE could use such a lame excuse and get away with it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:37 pm

Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Well, that's really funny coming from Stosur, the epitome of graceful, ladylike physique...I womder what TUEs she is on...
it may be hypocritical of stouser with the suspicion surrounding her but she is absolutely right,its ridiculous that ANYONE could use such a lame excuse and get away with it

And what excuse do you think Stosur would come up with it all her steroid anuse was. It covered tpwith TUEs?

Please don't tell me her physique can be achieved with "hard work".

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Well, that's really funny coming from Stosur, the epitome of graceful, ladylike physique...I womder what TUEs she is on...
it may be hypocritical of stouser with the suspicion surrounding her but she is absolutely right,its ridiculous that ANYONE could use such a lame excuse and get away with it

And what excuse do you think Stosur would come up with it all her steroid anuse was. It covered tpwith TUEs?

Please don't tell me her physique can be achieved with "hard wor
its not about stouser,its about the principle,no one including stouser should ever be allowed to get off on an excuse like that 
who knows what excuse stouser would use if this was about her but it isnt about her its about sharapova and the excuse she used 
yes it can be viewed hypocritical of someone who you think is a doper to be so self righteous but it can also be deemed hypocritical to sympathise with an athlete who has been found guilty of doping simply because shes russian if you dont sympathise with the rest

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:32 am

We are going in circles here. There no need for excuses for Sharapova except for not having read her spam email. Nothing else. Maybe all the other athletes were on the drug as well like they are on ibu...but unlike her they managed to stop using it on time.

Thats the only excuse she needs to provide. Not a single person in the world bar you maybe thinks she wanted to keep on using the drug trying to beat the antidoping system.

Its an admin mistake nothing else.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:10 pm

I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:16 pm

Tenez wrote:We are going in circles here. There no need for excuses for Sharapova except for not having read her spam email. Nothing else. Maybe all the other athletes were on the drug as well like they are on ibu...but unlike her they managed to stop using it on time.

Thats the only excuse she needs to provide. Not a single person in the world bar you maybe thinks she wanted to keep on using the drug trying to beat the antidoping system.

Its an admin mistake nothing else.
you dont know that for a fact because you dont know every single person in the world personally so you dont know what their opinion on the matter is
in fact youre the only person i have seen on any of the tennis forums i read that has this opinion on this particular subject
i dont think ive even seen NITB make the excuse that she thinks its just an admin mistake
no one over on THASP is buying her excuse or believing her lies either so im not the only one who  has this opinion
you keep ignoring the fact that she tried to hide that she was using meldonium on a doping control form
if this was just an admin mistake then why was she hiding that information?

doping athletes/cheaters have been proven to take  banned substances all the time thinking that they will get away with it so i dont understand why you think its so far fetched that maria sharapova would not do the same
thats exactly what doping/cheating is

we arent going around in circles,stouser made the point that i agree with which is that no pro athlete should ever been allowed to get off on such a lame excuse.its pathetic and embarrassing when you really think about it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:20 pm

Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
i totally agree daniel,thats why i believe that any pro athlete who is taking medication especially for their "health" would go double  even triple check the legality of the drug before taking it every time
no sensible person who is taking medication for a health condition would take something like that for granted  
you would keep up to date with whether the drug needed a TUE or not in case its banned for the simple fact that you would need to continue using it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:03 pm

i dont understand why youre not in agreement tenez especially if you have a similar no tolerance stance on cheating
sam stouser thinks that its bullshit that someone could use an excuse like that and then get away with it and shes right
lets take sharapova out of the equation 
imagine if i was caught using nandrolone and then used the excuse that i was ignorant and i didnt know that what i was doing was wrong simply because i didnt read the email that told me that the drug was banned
wouldnt you say thats  a bullshit excuse and even more bullshit if it worked and i was able to get away with it?
i also think that its good that at least one of the players is speaking out about it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:13 pm

Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:24 pm

Vee. Thasp go way over board at times.

There is no logic for an athlete of her caliber to compromise everything on a drug easily traceable. It simply does not make sense as much as you want to see cheating in it, there was no intention. That is why she came to talk openly about it.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:42 pm

Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.
maria sharapova did...but shes not the only one who has risked her career and she certainly wont be the last...
i dont believe that maria would have used meldonium for 10 years if it wasnt performance enhancing 

medonium is the only drug we know of..she could potentially have been getting away for all those years with a lot worse...you have to be open to the possibility now that we know for a fact that she's an athlete who looks to drug for an advantage

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:55 pm

Tenez wrote:Vee. Thasp go way over board at times.

There is no logic for an athlete of her caliber to compromise everything on a drug easily traceable. It simply does not make sense as much as you want to see cheating in it, there was no intention. That is why she came to talk openly about it.
i agree that at times some people on there can go way over board but the discussion on this particular topic has been very comprehensive with so many good points made 
how do you know that meldonium is easily traceable?
if meldonium is easily traceable then why hide the fact that youre using the drug on a doping control form if it will show up on a drugs test very easily anyway?
no matter how you look at it,the fact that she never disclosed and tried to hide the fact that she was still using meldonium is very incriminating and to me proves that she knew that the drug had been banned
cause if she didnt read the email and was still under the impression that the drug was legal and that she wasnt trying to cheat and it was completely innocent mistake..then she would have written on the doping control form that she was using meldonium especially if she needed to take it for a medical condition that she claims she had 
if you think that what youe doing isnt wrong,then why the need to hide it and lie about taking it?
if shes trying to hide meldonium,a drug you tenez dont even think has much use as a performance enhancing drug,imagine what else she must be hiding!!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:55 pm

It's so bizarre. You seem to understand her reasoning....but you always end up with the wrong conclusion.

What don;t you understand?

How come I now melodium is traceable? Cause it has been traced every single time since they started tracing it. And I guarantee you that no athlete will use it ever again!

"if you think that what youe doing isnt wrong,then why the need to hide it and lie about taking it?"

She never tried to hide it, she went public about it?

In fact you even come up with the wrong facts to get to your conclusion. That's why I am saying we are going in circles.

What she is hiding is a different matter. She was never caught for anything else.

But just admit that you don't like her and want to see her worse than she is. It;s quite obvious in fact though unlike her I don;t expect you to admit it! Winking

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:35 pm

Tenez wrote:It's so bizarre. You seem to understand her reasoning....but you always end up with the wrong conclusion.

What don;t you understand?

How come I now melodium is traceable? Cause it has been traced every single time since they started tracing it. And I guarantee you that no athlete will use it ever again!

"if you think that what youe doing isnt wrong,then why the need to hide it and lie about taking it?"

She never tried to hide it, she went public about it?

In fact you even come up with the wrong facts to get to your conclusion. That's why I am saying we are going in circles.

What she is hiding is a different matter. She was never caught for anything else.

But just admit that you don't like her and want to see her worse than she is. It;s quite obvious in fact though unlike her I don;t expect you to admit it! Winking
sharapova went public with using meldonium AFTER she failed the drugs test,she hid the fact that she was using meldonium on the doping control form BEFORE  se failed the drugs test
youre grasping at straws here 
this has nothing to do with me liking or disliking anyone,its about the facts,its about the excuse used and its about the lies told
i dont have to admit anything cause sharapova was found guilty,youre the only person i know that wont admit that she is guilty even though shes been found guilty 
how do you know that meldonium has been traced every time since they started tracing it? can you prove that? 
just because a few athletes have tested positive for meldonium since it was banned doesnt prove in a factual sense that its easily traceable,thats just what your opinion has been formed on based on the fact that there have been a few positive tests,but that doesnt rule out possible masking agents 
how can you guarantee that no athlete will ever use it again?
if we go by that logic...how many athletes in various sports have tested positive for banned substances...has that ever stopped other athletes from using the same drugs thinking that they can get away with it?
your argument makes no sense
what other facts have i gotten wrong?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:40 am

Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

Rafa you are vindicated! Winking Winking

I accept that whilst the drug itself wasn't banned until 2016, there is clearly an edge to that drug. You would be the first to know that not every drug interacts or delivers the same benefits to everyone else on this planet!

Why would one take a drug that's traceable but at the time not banned? Let me think.....

You need to get your head around that it became a banned substance. No if's or but's. It's banned.

You call it an admin error, I call it negligence.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:55 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

Rafa you are vindicated! Winking Winking

I accept that whilst the drug itself wasn't banned until 2016, there is clearly an edge to that drug. You would be the first to know that not every drug interacts or delivers the same benefits to everyone else on this planet!

Why would one take a drug that's traceable but at the time not banned? Let me think.....

You need to get your head around that it became a banned substance. No if's or but's. It's banned.

You call it an admin error, I call it negligence.
i think that tenez's pro russian stance is really clouding his judgement 
lets take maria out of the equation and replace her with rafael nadal
imagine if rafael nadal did the following:
1 lies about the reason why he was using meldonium so automatically his credibility is already is shot
2 tries to hide the fact that he was using meldonium on a doping control form when he claims that he was using it for medical reasons
3 uses a lame excuse  that he simply didnt read the email that told him that the drug was banned but somehow managed to read the email that told him that he failed a drugs test
i dont believe that tenez would still think that it was just an admin error 
i also dont think that he would buy the excuse used
imagine a murderer standing in front of a judge trying to use the same excuse..."sorry your honour,i didnt know that killing someone was breaking the law cause i didnt read the memo that told me it was,if i had read the memo then i wouldnt have killed anyone" and then the judge goes on the say " dont worry,you didnt know that what you did was wrong so i will reduce your sentence"
an excuse like that will never hold up in a court of law for any crime committed so why does it hold credibility in the court of arbitration where doping is pretty much regarded as a crime?
but to tenez me pointing all of the above out is simply because i dont like sharapova  erm

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:19 pm

Veejay wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

Rafa you are vindicated! Winking Winking

I accept that whilst the drug itself wasn't banned until 2016, there is clearly an edge to that drug. You would be the first to know that not every drug interacts or delivers the same benefits to everyone else on this planet!

Why would one take a drug that's traceable but at the time not banned? Let me think.....

You need to get your head around that it became a banned substance. No if's or but's. It's banned.

You call it an admin error, I call it negligence.
i think that tenez's pro russian stance is really clouding his judgement 
lets take maria out of the equation and replace her with rafael nadal
imagine if rafael nadal did the following:
1 lies about the reason why he was using meldonium so automatically his credibility is already is shot
2 tries to hide the fact that he was using meldonium on a doping control form when he claims that he was using it for medical reasons
3 uses a lame excuse  that he simply didnt read the email that told him that the drug was banned but somehow managed to read the email that told him that he failed a drugs test
i dont believe that tenez would still think that it was just an admin error 
i also dont think that he would buy the excuse used
imagine a murderer standing in front of a judge trying to use the same excuse..."sorry your honour,i didnt know that killing someone was breaking the law cause i didnt read the memo that told me it was,if i had read the memo then i wouldnt have killed anyone" and then the judge goes on the say " dont worry,you didnt know that what you did was wrong so i will reduce your sentence"
an excuse like that will never hold up in a court of law for any crime committed so why does it hold credibility in the court of arbitration where doping is pretty much regarded as a crime?
but to tenez me pointing all of the above out is simply because i dont like sharapova  erm

One thing I will say Vee is you are consistent on the issue of doping or cheating regardless of who breaks them.

I agree I am slightly baffled by Tenez's stance on this. I think the political issue is separate. I don't think it bears (no pun to the fancy ones) any relevance to this case.

As an athlete you would expect them to want to take a keen interest in what substances are banned.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:45 pm

As an athlete you would expect them to want to take a keen interest in what substances are banned.


thats i keep saying,if youre taking medication for a heath condition i think that any sensible athlete constantly check to see what the status of the drug is according to wada.
if i was an athlete who claimed to have such a condition,i would make WADA aware of the fact that i was taking such medication and make them aware that i was taking such medication for a condition.i would double or even triple check before i took the medication to avoid  as tenez would say-risking your own career for a drug that doesnt even give you that much of an edge 
i wouldnt try to hide the fact that i : 1 had the condition,2 : was taking the drug on a doping control form

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:41 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

Rafa you are vindicated! Winking Winking

I accept that whilst the drug itself wasn't banned until 2016, there is clearly an edge to that drug. You would be the first to know that not every drug interacts or delivers the same benefits to everyone else on this planet!

Why would one take a drug that's traceable but at the time not banned? Let me think.....

You need to get your head around that it became a banned substance. No if's or but's. It's banned.

You call it an admin error, I call it negligence.
one thing is clear...its that there is no clear edge to that drug. They would not have waited that long to ban it and from most scientists i read from, its not enhancing. But that is not even the point of that discussion. It s a drug she took like she took ibu. No different cause both were helpng her to feel better and both were legal.

Thats the drug became banned is no problem to me or Shara. She is just annoyed that the ITF did not make it clearer. 2 other athlete were also caught with that drug cause the sudden addition to that list. They were cleared xause they could prove it was taken before the ban.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:43 pm

Oh and lk you are still not giving any reason why such a successful athlete would compromise all her spinsors and reputation for such drug...you evade it with a further question... that says a lot about your arguments...or lack off.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:56 pm

i think that tenez's pro russian stance is really clouding his judgement 
lets take maria out of the equation and replace her with rafael nadal
imagine if rafael nadal did the following:
1 lies about the reason why he was using meldonium so automatically his credibility is already is shot
2 tries to hide the fact that he was using meldonium on a doping control form when he claims that he was using it for medical reasons
3 uses a lame excuse  that he simply didnt read the email that told him that the drug was banned but somehow managed to read the email that told him that he failed a drugs test
i dont believe that tenez would still think that it was just an admin error 
i also dont think that he would buy the excuse used
imagine a murderer standing in front of a judge trying to use the same excuse..."sorry your honour,i didnt know that killing someone was breaking the law cause i didnt read the memo that told me it was,if i had read the memo then i wouldnt have killed anyone" and then the judge goes on the say " dont worry,you didnt know that what you did was wrong so i will reduce your sentence"
an excuse like that will never hold up in a court of law for any crime committed so why does it hold credibility in the court of arbitration where doping is pretty much regarded as a crime?
but to tenez me pointing all of the above out is simply because i dont like sharapova  erm

Nay. Very wrong . I even defended Nadal on Thasp a few years ago about some absurd theory. And you know i cant stand Shara. Well a bit less now.

So unlike you im very consistent with one thing: i m only interested in truth. I dont speculate if there is no reason too. There is no reason an athlete at that level were to commit such a gross offence with certainty of being caught for such a negligeable gain.. and Cas came to the same conclusion.

You wont convinced me otherwise but i just think you are not entirely honest about this case...you are in fact both clutching to straws to use your expression.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:38 pm

Tenez wrote:
i think that tenez's pro russian stance is really clouding his judgement 
lets take maria out of the equation and replace her with rafael nadal
imagine if rafael nadal did the following:
1 lies about the reason why he was using meldonium so automatically his credibility is already is shot
2 tries to hide the fact that he was using meldonium on a doping control form when he claims that he was using it for medical reasons
3 uses a lame excuse  that he simply didnt read the email that told him that the drug was banned but somehow managed to read the email that told him that he failed a drugs test
i dont believe that tenez would still think that it was just an admin error 
i also dont think that he would buy the excuse used
imagine a murderer standing in front of a judge trying to use the same excuse..."sorry your honour,i didnt know that killing someone was breaking the law cause i didnt read the memo that told me it was,if i had read the memo then i wouldnt have killed anyone" and then the judge goes on the say " dont worry,you didnt know that what you did was wrong so i will reduce your sentence"
an excuse like that will never hold up in a court of law for any crime committed so why does it hold credibility in the court of arbitration where doping is pretty much regarded as a crime?
but to tenez me pointing all of the above out is simply because i dont like sharapova  erm

Nay. Very wrong . I even defended Nadal on Thasp a few years ago about some absurd theory. And you know i cant stand Shara. Well a bit less now.

So unlike you im very consistent with one thing: i m only interested in truth. I dont speculate if there is no reason too. There is no reason an athlete at that level were to commit such a gross offence with certainty of being caught for such a negligeable gain.. and Cas came to the same conclusion.

You wont convinced me otherwise but i just think you are not entirely honest about this case...you are in fact both clutching to straws to use your expression.
im beginning to agree that we seem to keep going around in circles debating with you
so if youre only interested in the truth ( unlike me apparently ) why do you choose to keep ignoring the fact that maria lied about the reasons why she was taking meldonium.it was proven that you dont need to take the drug for more then a few weeks for a heart condition,not 10 years
again,if youre only interested in the truth ( unlike me apparently) why do you keep choosing to ignore the fact that maria basically lied by trying to hide the fact that she was using meldonium on a doping control form
the two points above are facts,not mere speculation
i keep saying this,its been proven time and time again that doping athletes across the baord in many sports are willing to take banned substances,knowing that the substances are banned,risking their careers and whatever endorsements comes with it,to try and gain and unfair dvantage believing that they can get away with it
i dont understand how you can see that it would be soooo far fetched for maria to try and do exactly the same
besides when you actually look at how athletes are disciplined for breaking doping rules,its really no wonder that they take such risks cause like maria many of them know that even if they were caught,its certainly wont be the end of their careers or the endorsements.they can always pretend to be ignorant and appeal their case to CAS and most likely end up over turning a ban or reducing a sentence 
as far as im aware it was the lame excuse that maria gave which helped reduce her sentence,she wasnt acquitted or found not guilty!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:03 pm

You've turned into a mind reader again, Tenez. How do you know SHE knew that it wouldn't have a bigger effect - and how do you know it didn't?  She had a nice story all cooked up that she was using it for medical reasons, but as veejay said, one does not take it for 10 years and fail to disclose this. She didn't disclose it. She was deliberately hiding it.  Tons of athletes have hidden things and risked their careers.  No-one would do what Tits did unless they are trying to cheat. She was found out.  It was outlawed and she got caught. And even if she were innocent - if she was so dependent on others that she couldn't check to see if the substance is illegal, tough luck.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:44 pm

Daniel wrote:You've turned into a mind reader again, Tenez. How do you know SHE knew that it wouldn't have a bigger effect - and how do you know it didn't?  She had a nice story all cooked up that she was using it for medical reasons, but as veejay said, one does not take it for 10 years and fail to disclose this. She didn't disclose it. She was deliberately hiding it.  Tons of athletes have hidden things and risked their careers.  No-one would do what Tits did unless they are trying to cheat. She was found out.  It was outlawed and she got caught. And even if she were innocent - if she was so dependent on others that she couldn't check to see if the substance is illegal, tough luck.

Well, the main thing she is back, competing again against all the uncaught dopers who had no shame in judging and condemning her.

And regarding the "uncaught ones" let me recycle one of your best lines here, Daniel: You don't need to open the nappy to know what's inside it, i.e. steroid muscles don't lie.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:39 am

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Daniel wrote:I'd expect athletes at the top of their profession should be doing more to check what they are eating and drinking than an occasional glance at their spam folder, Tenez.  And if you believe that's her only mistake, you are delusional. Plus you have only her word for the "spam folder" story.
Yes she should have done better but thats all. A multi million $$ athletes would never compromise her career and sponsor for such a substance.

Im not delusional. You simply lack judgement and common sense .....once again.

You have to be a fool to think she would compromise all her gain and reputation for a drug which is not believe to be enhancing. In fact she was caught twice with it. Clearly taking it without a worry in the world....poor thing.

Can any of you explain to us how she would take a drug easily traceable....hoping not to be found out?

But dont bother i know you have no answer to that.

Rafa you are vindicated! Winking Winking

I accept that whilst the drug itself wasn't banned until 2016, there is clearly an edge to that drug. You would be the first to know that not every drug interacts or delivers the same benefits to everyone else on this planet!

Why would one take a drug that's traceable but at the time not banned? Let me think.....

You need to get your head around that it became a banned substance. No if's or but's. It's banned.

You call it an admin error, I call it negligence.
one thing is clear...its that there is no clear edge to that drug. They would not have waited that long to ban it and from most scientists i read from, its not enhancing. But that is not even the point of that discussion. It s a drug she took like she took ibu. No different cause both were helpng her to feel better and both were legal.

Thats the drug became banned is no problem to me or Shara. She is just annoyed that the ITF did not make it clearer. 2 other athlete were also caught with that drug cause the sudden addition to that list. They were cleared xause they could prove it was taken before the ban.


What astounds me is the comparison of Meldonium to Ibuprofen. Their not even the same ballpark! Can we at least drop that comparison? There not even in the same categories. One is anti-inflammatory and the other an anticonvulsant which is used for treating epileptic fits! No-one and I mean no-one would in their right mind would take a drug for no condition they don't have. Especially an anticonvulsant unless of course it offers something else.

To answer your question: Why would an athlete take such a substance if it's harmless as you say?

Well, who on earth would be stupid enough to continue taking a drug which in your words "offers no edge" and is banned? Athletes would take any substance if it offers an edge, unless they take a recreational drug. So by your logic Maria was taking the drug for pacifier effects? I can't say I've ever heard of an athlete who takes Meldonium to 'feel better' or even a doctor saying 'pop 2 of these and call me in the morning'

Any athlete (who shows the negligence of Sharapova) knows whatever substance they ingest carries risk if they are uncertain of it's status with WADA. Therefore it's the responsibility of the athlete to know these things.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:58 pm

legendkillar wrote:What astounds me is the comparison of Meldonium to Ibuprofen. Their not even the same ballpark! Can we at least drop that comparison? There not even in the same categories. One is anti-inflammatory and the other an anticonvulsant which is used for treating epileptic fits! No-one and I mean no-one would in their right mind would take a drug for no condition they don't have. Especially an anticonvulsant unless of course it offers something else.

Wiki: Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said “There’s really no evidence that there’s any performance enhancement from meldonium - Zero percent.”[4]
Who shoudl I listen? You or the long time anti-doping expert and scientist director of the Banned Substances Control Group? I wonder?

What Meldonium does is facilitate blood flow like Aspirin, just in a differen way. But that's not even my point. It might be the best of steroids I woudl not change my mind. She is not supposed NOT to take drugs that might help her. She is supposed to take everything which can help her and be legal. This is what she did tilll Dec 2015 and "thought" she was doing till February 2016. That's her only fault. A bad one probably but on this occasion not a voluntary cheater.

To answer your question: Why would an athlete take such a substance if it's harmless as you say?

Well, who on earth would be stupid enough to continue taking a drug which in your words "offers no edge" and is banned? Athletes would take any substance if it offers an edge, unless they take a recreational drug. So by your logic Maria was taking the drug for pacifier effects? I can't say I've ever heard of an athlete who takes Meldonium to 'feel better' or even a doctor saying 'pop 2 of these and call me in the morning'
I still don;t see an answer why an athlete with everything to lose woudl take a subs before testing hoping not to be tested. Which great tennis player has been caught recently with a smoking gun?, as stupidly as that? So more questions from you but still no argument. The fact is not even the ITF, Cas question Shara's honesty on this occasion cause they all know that not a single athlete woudl dare play with a drug which is being tested. That's why 99.9 % of them cheat and yet never get caught. They know what to take and when to take it. Shara twice failed the test in 6 weeks. So clearly she had not included that subs in her banned list. That's as simple as that and I believe those who think otherwise have an agenda such the case is bloody obvious.

Any athlete (who shows the negligence of Sharapova) knows whatever substance they ingest carries risk if they are uncertain of it's status with WADA. Therefore it's the responsibility of the athlete to know these things.
Sure that's her mistake! Problem is that like many other athletes she took the drug fine with not a worry in the world for years with the consentment of all anti-doping agencies. So it's not difficult to understand that for her she was not cheating with that drug, she was just taking a supplement like they all do. And all those supps help them one way or another.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:54 pm

I still don;t see an answer why an athlete with everything to lose woudl take a subs before testing hoping not to be tested. Which great tennis player has been caught recently with a smoking gun?, as stupidly as that?



maria sharpaova is your answer
i have said this several times,to gain an unfair advantage!
you think that rafael has doped right? which means that you have to  believe that he has knowingly taken banned substances risking everything from career to endorsements to gain a cheating unfair advantage all while believing that he wont get caught....so why is it so hard for you to grasp that maria could do exactly the same
that is what a doper/cheater is

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:02 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:What astounds me is the comparison of Meldonium to Ibuprofen. Their not even the same ballpark! Can we at least drop that comparison? There not even in the same categories. One is anti-inflammatory and the other an anticonvulsant which is used for treating epileptic fits! No-one and I mean no-one would in their right mind would take a drug for no condition they don't have. Especially an anticonvulsant unless of course it offers something else.

Wiki: Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said “There’s really no evidence that there’s any performance enhancement from meldonium - Zero percent.”[4]
Who shoudl I listen? You or the long time anti-doping expert and scientist director of the Banned Substances Control Group? I wonder?

What Meldonium does is facilitate blood flow like Aspirin, just in a differen way. But that's not even my point. It might be the best of steroids I woudl not change my mind. She is not supposed NOT to take drugs that might help her. She is supposed to take everything which can help her and be legal. This is what she did tilll Dec 2015 and "thought" she was doing till February 2016. That's her only fault. A bad one probably but on this occasion not a voluntary cheater.

To answer your question: Why would an athlete take such a substance if it's harmless as you say?

Well, who on earth would be stupid enough to continue taking a drug which in your words "offers no edge" and is banned? Athletes would take any substance if it offers an edge, unless they take a recreational drug. So by your logic Maria was taking the drug for pacifier effects? I can't say I've ever heard of an athlete who takes Meldonium to 'feel better' or even a doctor saying 'pop 2 of these and call me in the morning'
I still don;t see an answer why an athlete with everything to lose woudl take a subs before testing hoping not to be tested. Which great tennis player has been caught recently with a smoking gun?, as stupidly as that? So more questions from you but still no argument. The fact is not even the ITF, Cas question Shara's honesty on this occasion cause they all know that not a single athlete woudl dare play with a drug which is being tested. That's why 99.9 % of them cheat and yet never get caught. They know what to take and when to take it. Shara twice failed the test in 6 weeks. So clearly she had not included that subs in her banned list. That's as simple as that and I believe those who think otherwise have an agenda such the case is bloody obvious.

Any athlete (who shows the negligence of Sharapova) knows whatever substance they ingest carries risk if they are uncertain of it's status with WADA. Therefore it's the responsibility of the athlete to know these things.
Sure that's her mistake! Problem is that like many other athletes she took the drug fine with not a worry in the world for years with the consentment of all anti-doping agencies. So it's not difficult to understand that for her she was not cheating with that drug, she was just taking a supplement like they all do. And all those supps help them one way or another.


Your first point. I've said "giving an edge" now that is not stating performance enhancing. I can't speculate to very benefit it gave Sharapova as you can. The fact you compare Aspirin to Meldonium is astonishing. To coin your phrase, would I take your word for it? Winking the very fact Meldonium is not used in the UK or available to purchase OTC speaks volumes. So if it was as harmless as you make out, it would be in stores worldwide!

I don't understand why any top athlete would risk any kind of reprimand by taking a drug that isn't performance enhancing for the sake of it. Now let me ask you this. If Meldonium is every bit like Aspirin as you say it is, why didn't Sharapova take Aspirin instead of Meldonium?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:42 pm

To coin your phrase, would I take your word for it? Winking the very fact Meldonium is not used in the UK or available to purchase OTC speaks volumes. So if it was as harmless as you make out, it would be in stores worldwide!
===================
It does not speak volume at all. It's another false statement. It's simply a drug developped, manufactured and prescribed in Eastern countries since the 70s. That's why. There are many equivalent drugs in teh UK and US. BTW, Meldonium is not an illegal (Unscheduled) drug (not in the doping sense) in the US.

You may remember that I have studied Neurophysiology at uni....Though it's a long time now since I last updated myself with drugs and hormones, I know quite a bit about it. Meldonium is a vasodilator though it is not used in the UK, there are many such drug equivalent in teh western world:
https://www.drugs.com/drug-class/vasodilators.html
I am not sure those are on the WADA list but worth having a look.

I don't understand why any top athlete would risk any kind of reprimand by taking a drug that isn't performance enhancing for the sake of it.
Exactly. So again, why did she take it? Cause she simply overlooked her emails or the person meant to look at it for her!....

Meldonium is not aspirin but in a way both are good for the heart. I take aspirin for my heart regularly and millions in Asia take Meldonium. Not rocket science.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

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