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Sharapova announces failed drug test

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:12 pm

Well to me it's all about the fans. The charity business is just a pr business. I don't buy and don't care. If you have fans then it means people care about the sport.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:47 pm

there are many people who are fans of particular players but not neccessarily fans of the sport
look at the "vamos rafa" brigade,it consists mostyl of a bunhc of teeange girls going through puberty and hormonal women on the verge of manopause
they clearly dont care about the sport  cause a true fan of the sport would be just as disgusted as i am to see a player try t gain an unfair advantage,cheat and  have such blatent disregard for the rules of the game every single time he steps on court
maria is  just another kornikova whi actually won something but lets be honest,her popularity has far more to do with her looks then her talent ( or lack there of)
i wouldnt be surprised if the  majority of people who follow her on social networking sites dont even watch tennis

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:37 pm

sharapovas 2 year banned gets slashed to 15 months
 thoughts?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:55 pm

Well you know my thoughts. I think it is a disgrace they gave her that long considering she just neglected to read emails.....and we know how systematic doping was going on with TUEs in our "whiter than white" western world!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:07 pm

heres what she wrote on her facebook page:

Hello SharaFamily!
I’ve gone from one of the toughest days of my career last March when I learned about my suspension to now, one of my happiest days, as I found out I can return to tennis in April.
In so many ways, I feel like something I love was taken away from me and it will feel really good to have it back. Tennis is my passion and I have missed it. I am counting the days until I can return to the court.
I have learned from this, and I hope the ITF has as well. CAS concluded that “the Panel has determined it does not agree with many of the conclusions of the [ITF] Tribunal…”
I have taken responsibility from the very beginning for not knowing that the over-the-counter supplement I had been taking for the last ten years was no longer allowed. But I also learned how much better other Federations were at notifying their athletes of the rule change, especially in Eastern Europe where Mildronate is commonly taken by millions of people.
Now that this process is over, I hope the ITF and other relevant tennis anti-doping authorities will study what these other Federations did, so that no other tennis player will have to go through what I went through.
And to my fans, I thank you so much for living and breathing so many of these tough months together. During this time, I have learned the true meaning of a fan and I am so fortunate to have had your support.
I’m coming back soon and I can’t wait!
Love, Maria
P.S. - for detailed facts on my case, please click on this link:http://www.mariasharapova.com/cas-strikes-down-itf-ruling/

i find the whole thing a disgrace...and typically sharapova - utterly arrogant and self-absorbed...blame everyone but yourself ..the whole  "i was right all along" crap!!
er no...this is not some kind of vindication..just further proof of how much the world of sport is prepared to go soft on doping 

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:21 pm

It's an absolute disgrace!

The governing bodies are an absolute disgrace and shower of shit! Get rid of them and bring in those that actually care about the integrity about the sport!

Wankers the lot of them!

Sorry for the language. I am fuming about this.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:32 pm

this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:29 pm

Veejay wrote:heres what she wrote on her facebook page:

Hello SharaFamily!
I’ve gone from one of the toughest days of my career last March when I learned about my suspension to now, one of my happiest days, as I found out I can return to tennis in April.
In so many ways, I feel like something I love was taken away from me and it will feel really good to have it back. Tennis is my passion and I have missed it. I am counting the days until I can return to the court.
I have learned from this, and I hope the ITF has as well. CAS concluded that “the Panel has determined it does not agree with many of the conclusions of the [ITF] Tribunal…”
I have taken responsibility from the very beginning for not knowing that the over-the-counter supplement I had been taking for the last ten years was no longer allowed. But I also learned how much better other Federations were at notifying their athletes of the rule change, especially in Eastern Europe where Mildronate is commonly taken by millions of people.
Now that this process is over, I hope the ITF and other relevant tennis anti-doping authorities will study what these other Federations did, so that no other tennis player will have to go through what I went through.
And to my fans, I thank you so much for living and breathing so many of these tough months together. During this time, I have learned the true meaning of a fan and I am so fortunate to have had your support.
I’m coming back soon and I can’t wait!
Love, Maria
P.S. - for detailed facts on my case, please click on this link:http://www.mariasharapova.com/cas-strikes-down-itf-ruling/

i find the whole thing a disgrace...and typically sharapova - utterly arrogant and self-absorbed...blame everyone but yourself ..the whole  "i was right all along" crap!!
er no...this is not some kind of vindication..just further proof of how much the world of sport is prepared to go soft on doping 

You are bery often very partial when it comes to some players. the more I know about this case teh more I am 100% behind her.

The ITF and Antidoping agencies are huge hypocrytes giving steroids to healthy athletes while suddenly banning an aspirin type drug "used by millions of people".

I hope you at least acknowledge that, on that occasion, she did not intend to cheat as the CAS found out. So why are you so much against her when teh system is so biased over others?

Clearly the ITF did not do its due diligence to make clear this substance was clearly banned. I am afraid but email is not good enough nowadays when we receive so much spam.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:44 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:heres what she wrote on her facebook page:

Hello SharaFamily!
I’ve gone from one of the toughest days of my career last March when I learned about my suspension to now, one of my happiest days, as I found out I can return to tennis in April.
In so many ways, I feel like something I love was taken away from me and it will feel really good to have it back. Tennis is my passion and I have missed it. I am counting the days until I can return to the court.
I have learned from this, and I hope the ITF has as well. CAS concluded that “the Panel has determined it does not agree with many of the conclusions of the [ITF] Tribunal…”
I have taken responsibility from the very beginning for not knowing that the over-the-counter supplement I had been taking for the last ten years was no longer allowed. But I also learned how much better other Federations were at notifying their athletes of the rule change, especially in Eastern Europe where Mildronate is commonly taken by millions of people.
Now that this process is over, I hope the ITF and other relevant tennis anti-doping authorities will study what these other Federations did, so that no other tennis player will have to go through what I went through.
And to my fans, I thank you so much for living and breathing so many of these tough months together. During this time, I have learned the true meaning of a fan and I am so fortunate to have had your support.
I’m coming back soon and I can’t wait!
Love, Maria
P.S. - for detailed facts on my case, please click on this link:http://www.mariasharapova.com/cas-strikes-down-itf-ruling/

i find the whole thing a disgrace...and typically sharapova - utterly arrogant and self-absorbed...blame everyone but yourself ..the whole  "i was right all along" crap!!
er no...this is not some kind of vindication..just further proof of how much the world of sport is prepared to go soft on doping 

You are bery often very partial when it comes to some players. the more I know about this case teh more I am 100% behind her.

The ITF and Antidoping agencies are huge hypocrytes giving steroids to healthy athletes while suddenly banning an aspirin type drug "used by millions of people".

I hope you at least acknowledge that, on that occasion, she did not intend to cheat as the CAS found out. So why are you so much against her when teh system is so biased over others?

Clearly the ITF did not do its due diligence to make clear this substance was clearly banned. I am afraid but email is not good enough nowadays when we receive so much spam.
you can say that about most people who comment on this forum...
sharapova lied about the reasons why she took the drug that is why i wont ever buy her story 
if youre lying about one thing then you have to assume that youre trying to cover something up,which then leads you to question where else is she lying about an what else is she trying to cover up

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:41 pm

legendkillar wrote:It's an absolute disgrace!

The governing bodies are an absolute disgrace and shower of shit! Get rid of them and bring in those that actually care about the integrity about the sport!

Wankers the lot of them!

Sorry for the language. I am fuming about this.

Laugh

I am just as frustrated, except I want to SCREEEEEAAAAM!!!!!!!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:43 pm

Veejay wrote:sharapovas 2 year banned gets slashed to 15 months
 thoughts?
I am disappointed she didn't get full two years, because that was my last hope Fancy Bears would give us all the information they have.


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:45 pm

Veejay wrote:this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm

Yes, especially as WTA is in big financial trouble...even Tenez has been called to save them Winking

Sharapova is the biggest magnet and inspiration for junior girls...there are 4-6 mini Sharapovas in my club only!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:50 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:sharapovas 2 year banned gets slashed to 15 months
 thoughts?
I am disappointed she didn't get full two years, because that was my last hope Fancy Bears would give us all the information they have.

if sharapova was initially given the 15 month sentence then i would have said that that was sufficient,its giving the 2 year ban and then over turning it that i consider to be the big problem here
i think that it sends out the wrong message,a sort of soft on doping stance 
also if a ban can be over turned then why was the 2 year ban given in the first place,why was the case not argued the same way?
there needs to be more consistency 
the reason why the ban was over turned is that the argument was made that not enough was done to make athletes aware that the drug was banned
i think thats bullshit...because i personally believe that any pro athlete who was taking medication for a serious health condition would go out of their way to be up to date with whether that drug needed a TUE or not,for the simple fact that they needed to continue taking the drug in case it was banned
this to me proves that sharapova never needed the drug for medical reasons
which is why i wont buy her story...the drug was legal up to this year so she did absolutely nothing wrong by taking it so there was no reason to lie about the reasons why she was using the drug
if this was really just an innocent mistake then theres no reason to tell any lies

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:00 pm

Vee, do you think any of these TUE athletes have a serious health condition?


I don't.

For me, they all took forbidden "medication" in order to cover up dope.

What you are saying is, Sharapova would've been fine had she read her email and prevented being caught.

So, she is a cheat for nit reading her email and all the other American and British athletes are not cheats because they read their email and are telling us ey all have a serious health condition.

I'd live to see someone with a serious health condition cycle up a hill let alone win Tour de France.

Or win 21 slams.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:39 pm

Veejay wrote:
you can say that about most people who comment on this forum...
sharapova lied about the reasons why she took the drug that is why i wont ever buy her story 
if youre lying about one thing then you have to assume that youre trying to cover something up,which then leads you to question where else is she lying about an what else is she trying to cover up

Maybe she was lying maybe not. She in fact does not have to justify herself for taking a drug which was not on the banned list. It's like asking atheletes to justify themselves to taking Ibu or aspirin. They are both performance enhancing drugs as well as they help reduce the swollen joints and help get rid of the acid lactic which makes muscles very tense. Same thing. It's not banned, end of story.

I actually admire the fact she went public about everything and was completely honest about it...simply because she felt that she did not do anything wrong besides reading her emails. ...unlike those TUE abusers.


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:54 am

Sharapova's lawyer, John Haggerty, called the Cas decision "a stunning repudiation of the ITF" and that "it exposes the ITF decision for what it is - pure fiction".

"As we demonstrated before Cas, not only did the tennis anti-doping authorities fail to properly warn Maria, if you compare what the ITF did with how other federations warned athletes of the rule change, it's a night and day difference," he added.

The chief executive - Johan Eliasch - of one of Sharapova's sponsors, racquet manufacturer Head, said "justice had been served" and called the original ITF decision "wholly unfair".

Eliasch said "there is no doubt Maria broke a rule" but he claims there are inconsistencies in the anti-doping regime and changes are needed.

"This calls into question the revelations about certain Olympic athletes who were granted therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) for substances that could most certainly be considered performance enhancing and have been proven to be performance enhancing under significant clinical testing," added Eliasch.

"Meldonium, the substance that Maria had been taking, has yet to be proven under any significant clinical testing to have any performance enhancing benefits."

Eliasch called for "a wholesale comprehensive review and change to the anti-doping system in identifying performance enhancing drugs".

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:46 am

Veejay wrote:this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm


Absolutely!

It's more a case of an athlete being toploaded with sponsors and the fear that if they uphold the punishment that the revenue generated by sponsors will harm the sporting world.

Money talks and bullshit walks!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:32 am

I am disappointed by all this...

Now that everyone is happy, TUEs dust will settle in the off season and everything will continue as before.

Why did I get excited something may change in the first place...Doh

At least some of the TUE abusers had to squirm and feel stupid for a while...


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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:33 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm


Absolutely!

It's more a case of an athlete being toploaded with sponsors and the fear that if they uphold the punishment that the revenue generated by sponsors will harm the sporting world.

Money talks and bullshit walks!
So you also believe she cheated.....even when the Cas and everybody says she had not! In fact I think this is typically a case where the punishment and suspension reduction are still very harsh. We have seen many got away with much worse doping cases.

the sponsors cleary have not contributed much if the ban reduction is only 9 months.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:21 pm

The ITF charged her for 4 years at first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/37562159

Hoe does that compare with Odesnik's case?

In March 2010, Odesnik pleaded guilty to importing human growth hormone into Australia and was banned for two years by the International Tennis Federation. The ban was later reduced to one year on account of his "substantial assistance" with the Federation's anti-doping program.[1][2] In January 2013, it was revealed that Odesnik's name appears in the handwritten records of Biogenesis of America, the former Miami sports clinic linked to a performance-enhancing drug scandal in Major League Baseball.[3] In the records for 2009, 2010 and 2011, and under the heading of 'Tennis' in five client lists, Odesnik's name appears numerous times; the records indicate that he was billed $500 per month by the clinic.[4] Odesnik has denied any connection to the clinic.[5]

===================
Wake up guys. It was clearly politically motivated. The more I learn about it the more it proves my case.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:47 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:
you can say that about most people who comment on this forum...
sharapova lied about the reasons why she took the drug that is why i wont ever buy her story 
if youre lying about one thing then you have to assume that youre trying to cover something up,which then leads you to question where else is she lying about an what else is she trying to cover up

Maybe she was lying maybe not. She in fact does not have to justify herself for taking a drug which was not on the banned list. It's like asking atheletes to justify themselves to taking Ibu or aspirin. They are both performance enhancing drugs as well as they help reduce the swollen joints and help get rid of the acid lactic which makes muscles very tense. Same thing. It's not banned, end of story.

I actually admire the fact she went public about everything and was completely honest about it...simply because she felt that she did not do anything wrong besides reading her emails. ...unlike those TUE abusers.

thats precisely the point tenez.the drug was legal and she was well within her right to use it,she didnt owe anyone an explanation why she was using the drug because she did absolutely nothing wrong prior to the drug being banned
so why did she need to conjure up a lie to explain to everyone why she was using the drug?
2 things that stick out for me in this case
she claimed to use the drug for a heart condition-it was proven that you dont use meldonium for medical reasons for more then a couple of weeks,not 10 years
she never disclosed meldonium on her doping control forms.so if you were innocent and thought that the drug was still legal,why didnt she disclose that information?
to me this proves that she read the email and was well aware that the drug had been banned but because she had become so dependent on using meldonium to help her get through matches she thought that she would continue using it and if she was caught just claim ignorance..the oldest trick in the book that has helped so many cheaters over the years get away with their doping activities..she's not stupid,its a tried and winning formula that will have muppets like wilander defending you
and thats exactly what happened...ignorance was the name of the game and ignorance won at the end of the day 
her biggest mistake was going public with the information which is why she had to come up with the lie that she was using the drug for medical purposes,she just never expected anyone to wonder why she never kept up to date with whether the drug needed a TUE  or not
had she shut up she would have probably gotten away with just a slap on the wrist 3 month ban which could easily have been covered up by some injury

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:56 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Vee, do you think any of these TUE athletes have a serious health condition?


I don't.

For me, they all took forbidden "medication" in order to cover up dope.

What you are saying is, Sharapova would've been fine had she read her email and prevented being caught.

So, she is a cheat for nit reading her email and all the other American and British athletes are not cheats because they read their email and are telling us ey all have a serious health condition.

I'd live to see someone with a serious health condition cycle up a hill let alone win Tour de France.

Or win 21 slams.
i think possibly simone biles could be using the drug because she really has asthma,i dont see how a drug like that could give her that much of an edge in such a technical sport 
youre missing the point about sharapova,its not the fact that she took the drug,she had every right prior to it being banned to use it.its the fact that she lied about the reasons why she was taking that leads me to believe that she may be lying about everything else 
yes TUE's are highly suspicious and its hard not to question if anyone really needs the drugs for medial reasons,but how can we prove that maybe a few of them dont really have a condition that would need to be treated by drugs that have been banned?
its the ones who use the drugs right before their best results that is most obvious i.e bradly wiggins

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Vee, do you think any of these TUE athletes have a serious health condition?


I don't.

For me, they all took forbidden "medication" in order to cover up dope.

What you are saying is, Sharapova would've been fine had she read her email and prevented being caught.

So, she is a cheat for nit reading her email and all the other American and British athletes are not cheats because they read their email and are telling us ey all have a serious health condition.

I'd live to see someone with a serious health condition cycle up a hill let alone win Tour de France.

Or win 21 slams.
i think possibly simone biles could be using the drug because she really has asthma,i dont see how a drug like that could give her that much of an edge in such a technical sport 
youre missing the point about sharapova,its not the fact that she took the drug,she had every right prior to it being banned to use it.its the fact that she lied about the reasons why she was taking that leads me to believe that she may be lying about everything else 
yes TUE's are highly suspicious and its hard not to question if anyone really needs the drugs for medial reasons,but how can we prove that maybe a few of them dont really have a condition that would need to be treated by drugs that have been banned?
its the ones who use the drugs right before their best results that is most obvious i.e bradly wiggins

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:58 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm


Absolutely!

It's more a case of an athlete being toploaded with sponsors and the fear that if they uphold the punishment that the revenue generated by sponsors will harm the sporting world.

Money talks and bullshit walks!
must have been a real drought in sales while she's been away....

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:01 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Veejay wrote:this ruling obviously has to do with $$$...all the brands that she endorses are welcoming her back with open arms  erm


Absolutely!

It's more a case of an athlete being toploaded with sponsors and the fear that if they uphold the punishment that the revenue generated by sponsors will harm the sporting world.

Money talks and bullshit walks!
So you also believe she cheated.....even when the Cas and everybody says she had not! In fact I think this is typically a case where the punishment and suspension reduction are still very harsh. We have seen many got away with much worse doping cases.

the sponsors cleary have not contributed much if the ban reduction is only 9 months.

Well she was caught holding the smoking gun.

Least we not forget that for example PRP which was frowned upon took the reverse route of first being illegal but now being legal. Winking 

Doping is still doping. Regardless of what we feel of the substance involved or the perpetrator involved.

9 months is a long time!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:02 pm

Veejay wrote:
thats precisely the point tenez.the drug was legal and she was well within her right to use it,she didnt owe anyone an explanation why she was using the drug because she did absolutely nothing wrong prior to the drug being banned
so why did she need to conjure up a lie to explain to everyone why she was using the drug?
2 things that stick out for me in this case
she claimed to use the drug for a heart condition-it was proven that you dont use meldonium for medical reasons for more then a couple of weeks,not 10 years

Not if you are a tennis athlete. You are not supposed to take ibuprofen for than 2 weeks....Steffi Graf was taking 8 minimum a day of 400mg all her career minimum ! It is no different. So that cancelshould your point.

I strongly disagree with your other arguments too but I believe we won't be able to agree on this anyway. As I m not a fan of hers I personally have no interest in defending her....but frankly on this one the culprit is again the usual ones....the sport federation...even if she has a share of responsibility. ...a négligeable one for me.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:09 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:
thats precisely the point tenez.the drug was legal and she was well within her right to use it,she didnt owe anyone an explanation why she was using the drug because she did absolutely nothing wrong prior to the drug being banned
so why did she need to conjure up a lie to explain to everyone why she was using the drug?
2 things that stick out for me in this case
she claimed to use the drug for a heart condition-it was proven that you dont use meldonium for medical reasons for more then a couple of weeks,not 10 years

Not if you are a tennis athlete. You are not supposed to take ibuprofen for than 2 weeks....Steffi Graf was taking 8 minimum a day of 400mg all her career minimum ! It is no different. So that cancelshould your point.

I strongly disagree with your other arguments too but I believe we won't be able to agree on this anyway. As I m not a fan of hers I personally have no interest in defending her....but frankly on this one the culprit is again the usual ones....the sport federation...even if she has a share of responsibility. ...a négligeable one for me.
i remember this being disputed by a doctor on the BCC when the story broke  but this goes back to the argument that if she truly needed the drug for a "life threatening heart condition" then she would have gone out of her way to keep up to date with whether the drug needed a TUE so that she could continue using the drug if it happened to be banned 
this is why i believe that shes lying about the reasons why she took the drug,there was never a condition to begin with

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:17 pm

on a lighter note,the last piece of roof has just been removed from court 1 at wimbledon..new roof on its way....yeay!! Big Grin

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:41 pm

the latest is that maria may sue the ITF
lance armstrong much?   Laugh


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2016/10/04/maria-sharapova-appeal-verdict-will-the-court-of-arbitration-for1/

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:54 pm

someone over on THASP pointed this out and i totally agree...
its interesting that maria read the email that told her that she tested positive but somehow missed the email that told her that the drug was banned..
just further more proof of what a farce her defence/story is

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:22 pm

legendkillar wrote:

Well she was caught holding the smoking gun.
How many times do we need to say it was not a "gun" in the first place. It's exactly like saying aspirin or Ibu are guns. They are not.

Least we not forget that for example PRP which was frowned upon took the reverse route of first being illegal but now being legal. Winking 
Well we all know why suddenly it became legal. Which proves again teh point that it is a political war. It's all down to who is on our side and who is against.

Doping is still doping. Regardless of what we feel of the substance involved or the perpetrator involved.
You see I don't believe in simple statements like that. They son't mean much and overlook the real details and we all know the devil is in the detail!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:36 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Well she was caught holding the smoking gun.
How many times do we need to say it was not a "gun" in the first place. It's exactly like saying aspirin or Ibu are guns. They are not.

Least we not forget that for example PRP which was frowned upon took the reverse route of first being illegal but now being legal. Winking 
Well we all know why suddenly it became legal. Which proves again teh point that it is a political war. It's all down to who is on our side and who is against.

Doping is still doping. Regardless of what we feel of the substance involved or the perpetrator involved.
You see I don't believe in simple statements like that. They son't mean much and overlook the real details and we all know the devil is in the detail!

Exactly.

So why take medication which you don't medically require? In other words so I am explicit in that statement, taking medication which is not required to enable your body to function completely?

If it's illegal, it's doping. We could argue for days on end as to which substance has the greater enhancing properties, but given none of us are qualified to provide exact facts behind the substances, it's a redundant debate.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:40 pm

Veejay wrote:i remember this being disputed by a doctor on the BCC when the story broke  but this goes back to the argument that if she truly needed the drug for a "life threatening heart condition" then she would have gone out of her way to keep up to date with whether the drug needed a TUE so that she could continue using the drug if it happened to be banned 
this is why i believe that shes lying about the reasons why she took the drug,there was never a condition to begin with

Not taking aspiring coudl also be "life threatening" for some.

And i find surprising that you don;t see the link between making this drug suddenly illegal as well as the fact it is only used in Eastern countries and the war between West and Russia! That's something you keep ignoring even though it is dead obvious.

Now from Wiki to prove even more the point:

Meldonium (INN), trade-named as Mildronate among others, is a limited-market pharmaceutical, developed in 1970 by Ivars Kalviņš, Latvian Institute of Organic Synthesis (USSR), and manufactured primarily by Grindeks of Latvia and several generic manufacturers. It is distributed in Eastern European countries as an anti-ischemia medication.[1]
Since 1 January 2016, it has been on the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) list of substances banned from use by athletes.[2] However, there are debates over its use as an athletic performance enhancer. Some athletes are known to have been using it before it was banned.[3] It is currently unscheduled in the US.
Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said “There’s really no evidence that there’s any performance enhancement from meldonium - Zero percent.”[4]

What can you add to that?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:44 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Well she was caught holding the smoking gun.
How many times do we need to say it was not a "gun" in the first place. It's exactly like saying aspirin or Ibu are guns. They are not.

Least we not forget that for example PRP which was frowned upon took the reverse route of first being illegal but now being legal. Winking 
Well we all know why suddenly it became legal. Which proves again teh point that it is a political war. It's all down to who is on our side and who is against.

Doping is still doping. Regardless of what we feel of the substance involved or the perpetrator involved.
You see I don't believe in simple statements like that. They son't mean much and overlook the real details and we all know the devil is in the detail!

Exactly.

So why take medication which you don't medically require? In other words so I am explicit in that statement, taking medication which is not required to enable your body to function completely?

If it's illegal, it's doping. We could argue for days on end as to which substance has the greater enhancing properties, but given none of us are qualified to provide exact facts behind the substances, it's a redundant debate.

Because all those professional athletes take lots of medications (ibu, aspirin, etc....) to compensate an excessive, extraordinary physical life. It's not that complicated, is it?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:53 pm

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:
Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:

Well she was caught holding the smoking gun.
How many times do we need to say it was not a "gun" in the first place. It's exactly like saying aspirin or Ibu are guns. They are not.

Least we not forget that for example PRP which was frowned upon took the reverse route of first being illegal but now being legal. Winking 
Well we all know why suddenly it became legal. Which proves again teh point that it is a political war. It's all down to who is on our side and who is against.

Doping is still doping. Regardless of what we feel of the substance involved or the perpetrator involved.
You see I don't believe in simple statements like that. They son't mean much and overlook the real details and we all know the devil is in the detail!

Exactly.

So why take medication which you don't medically require? In other words so I am explicit in that statement, taking medication which is not required to enable your body to function completely?

If it's illegal, it's doping. We could argue for days on end as to which substance has the greater enhancing properties, but given none of us are qualified to provide exact facts behind the substances, it's a redundant debate.

Because all those professional athletes take lots of medications (ibu, aspirin, etc....)  to compensate an excessive, extraordinary physical life. It's not that complicated, is it?


Does consistent use of Ibuprofen Aspirin contribute to continuous functionality when not required?

Be sensible!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:07 pm

Tenez wrote:
Veejay wrote:i remember this being disputed by a doctor on the BCC when the story broke  but this goes back to the argument that if she truly needed the drug for a "life threatening heart condition" then she would have gone out of her way to keep up to date with whether the drug needed a TUE so that she could continue using the drug if it happened to be banned 
this is why i believe that shes lying about the reasons why she took the drug,there was never a condition to begin with

Not taking aspiring coudl also be "life threatening" for some.

And i find surprising that you don;t see the link between making this drug suddenly illegal as well as the fact it is only used in Eastern countries and the war between West and Russia! That's something you keep ignoring even though it is dead obvious.

Now from Wiki to prove even more the point:

Meldonium (INN), trade-named as Mildronate among others, is a limited-market pharmaceutical, developed in 1970 by Ivars Kalviņš, Latvian Institute of Organic Synthesis (USSR), and manufactured primarily by Grindeks of Latvia and several generic manufacturers. It is distributed in Eastern European countries as an anti-ischemia medication.[1]
Since 1 January 2016, it has been on the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) list of substances banned from use by athletes.[2] However, there are debates over its use as an athletic performance enhancer. Some athletes are known to have been using it before it was banned.[3] It is currently unscheduled in the US.
Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said “There’s really no evidence that there’s any performance enhancement from meldonium - Zero percent.”[4]

What can you add to that?
im surprised that you cant see the lies that sharapova has been telling,that is my main point tenez and the reason why i dont believe the story that she is telling
it has nothing to do with the actual drug meldonium
my point of view on meldonium: could possibly give an athlete an edge,thats debatable but i dont believe that its a drug that is a game changer i.e EPO or some kind steroid 
her story to me doesnt add up thats why i dont believe that its just an innocent mistake because she didnt read an email
if it was an innocent mistake then there would be no reason to tell any lies or disclose the fact that youre using the drug on a doping control form

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:29 pm

Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Vee, do you think any of these TUE athletes have a serious health condition?
I don't.
For me, they all took forbidden "medication" in order to cover up dope.
What you are saying is, Sharapova would've been fine had she read her email and prevented being caught.
So, she is a cheat for nit reading her email and all the other American and British athletes are not cheats because they read their email and are telling us ey all have a serious health condition.
I'd live to see someone with a serious health condition cycle up a hill let alone win Tour de France.
Or win 21 slams.
i think possibly simone biles could be using the drug because she really has asthma,i dont see how a drug like that could give her that much of an edge in such a technical sport 
youre missing the point about sharapova,its not the fact that she took the drug,she had every right prior to it being banned to use it.its the fact that she lied about the reasons why she was taking that leads me to believe that she may be lying about everything else 
yes TUE's are highly suspicious and its hard not to question if anyone really needs the drugs for medial reasons,but how can we prove that maybe a few of them dont really have a condition that would need to be treated by drugs that have been banned?
its the ones who use the drugs right before their best results that is most obvious i.e bradly wiggins

What else could she be lying about?

Anyway...as you follow politics, do you see a connection between first Sharapova and then many more Russian olympic athletes being targeted by WADA/ITF foe nothing more than political reasons?

That is the whole point - their hypocrisy of teying to make Russians as baddies and the West a supe race.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:52 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Veejay wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Vee, do you think any of these TUE athletes have a serious health condition?
I don't.
For me, they all took forbidden "medication" in order to cover up dope.
What you are saying is, Sharapova would've been fine had she read her email and prevented being caught.
So, she is a cheat for nit reading her email and all the other American and British athletes are not cheats because they read their email and are telling us ey all have a serious health condition.
I'd live to see someone with a serious health condition cycle up a hill let alone win Tour de France.
Or win 21 slams.
i think possibly simone biles could be using the drug because she really has asthma,i dont see how a drug like that could give her that much of an edge in such a technical sport 
youre missing the point about sharapova,its not the fact that she took the drug,she had every right prior to it being banned to use it.its the fact that she lied about the reasons why she was taking that leads me to believe that she may be lying about everything else 
yes TUE's are highly suspicious and its hard not to question if anyone really needs the drugs for medial reasons,but how can we prove that maybe a few of them dont really have a condition that would need to be treated by drugs that have been banned?
its the ones who use the drugs right before their best results that is most obvious i.e bradly wiggins

What else could she be lying about?

Anyway...as you follow politics, do you see a connection between first Sharapova and then many more Russian olympic athletes being targeted by WADA/ITF foe nothing more than political reasons?

That is the whole point - their hypocrisy of teying to make Russians as baddies and the West a supe race.
firstly there was no reason to lie about the reasons why she was taking the drug cause technically she did nothing wrong,but seeing that i believe she did,i believe that she could be lying about whether she read the email that told her that the drug was going to be banned,especially since she never disclosed that she was using the drug on an anti doping form.the other flaw in her story is that she read the email telling her that she failed a drugs test but somehow missed the email that told her that the drug would be banned...sorry not buying that

i dont usually follow politics,im just keeping an eye on the u.s election cause its such circus and i find it quite entertaining.sorry i still dont see how this is more of a political thing,sharapova tested positive for taking a banned substance..end of story,no one held a gun to her head forcing her to take meldonium so this is not a witch hunt by wada or the ITF.she did this to herself 
lets also not lose sight that the russians were found guilty of wide spread state doping,again no one held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to dope,so they only have themselves to blame
of course there is doping and cheating going on everywhere else,but the russians are still guilty...you and tenez need to stop excusing that just because they were singled out
the world of sport is veyry unfar and full of double standards,one rule for one and another rule for someone else,but that doesnt exonerate the russians,they are still guilty even if everyone else is guilty too

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:21 pm

Veejay wrote:
i dont usually follow politics,im just keeping an eye on the u.s election cause its such circus and i find it quite entertaining.sorry i still dont see how this is more of a political thing,sharapova tested positive for taking a banned substance..end of story,no one held a gun to her head forcing her to take meldonium so this is not a witch hunt by wada or the ITF.she did this to herself 
lets also not lose sight that the russians were found guilty of wide spread state doping,again no one held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to dope,so they only have themselves to blame
of course there is doping and cheating going on everywhere else,but the russians are still guilty...you and tenez need to stop excusing that just because they were singled out
the world of sport is veyry unfar and full of double standards,one rule for one and another rule for someone else,but that doesnt exonerate the russians,they are still guilty even if everyone else is guilty too

Imagine you were a Russian. Work like a dog all your life for these olympics, dope like everyone else (nobody here is justifying doping btw) and then just because you are Russian you are named and shamed.
If you are a Brit or American you are lauded as a hero. And you throw stones on the Russians.

And that is a tip of the iceberg. American flexing their steroid muscles even in sport arena.

Like all those battered countries around the world and sea of migrants destabilising Europe weren't enough.

Russians are very proud as people, so the Americans certainly did their homework well knowing how best to humiliate them.

Today it's Sharapova, tomorrow it's us.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:07 pm

of course it seems unfair especially if other countries are doing the same,i never argued that it wasnt
but to me whether this is political or not is completely irrelevant in my opinion because the russians are still guilty of committing the crime thats why i simply cannot sympathise 
of course when it comes to banning an entire nation,there are bound to be few innocent athletes but unfortunately that just the reality they have to accept,and perhaps try to do something about 
the world is very unfair,life is very unfair,im not saying that its right,im just saying that that is reality

it doesnt seem like everyone is going to agree on the sharapova case,whether she did it intentionally or not,she still tested positive for a banned substance and was given a 15 month suspension 
if she didnt think that it was a performance enhancing drug then i personally believe that she wouldnt have taken it 
the overturned ban is not some kind of exoneration,she wasnt suddenly found innocent so her team need to stop spinning this like shes some kind of victim
she still committed the crime and is still paying for it

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by ... on Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:15 pm

Some of the olayers were asked about latest Sharapova news today:


Muller: 
"Anyone who gives a positive test should get punished. Should they get a reduction? I don't think so, in general. It shows other sportsmen that, at the end of the day, the punishment is not going to be that big.''

Berdych:
'Every single time I have to take something, I check many times with many different people. 
At the end, you are the player, you are the athlete, and you are the one who's going to be tested. I always check whatever I take because I'm the one who will go for the (doping) control.''


Cilic: 
"I was not treated fairly at all. In my case the system wasn't wrong, the people were wrong. That's behind me. It went to the CAS - it's quite fair whatever they say in most of their decisions. But it's tough to comment on these things because every case is different and individual.''

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:26 pm

legendkillar wrote:


Does consistent use of Ibuprofen Aspirin contribute to continuous functionality when not required?

Be sensible!

What does that mean?

Meldonium is not proven to be any different than Ibu and aspirin. Both could also be considered perf enhancing cause without it players would really struggle to have matches in succession.

Like Vee you always avoid the subject of how Melodonium was most likely singled out and added to the list cause it essentially affected Russian athletes.

As I pointed to you the other day, those ruling WADA are not Russian, are they? 99% are from NATO!

It's so bloody obvious how partial the press is on the subject. You expose "our" cheats from TUEs  and it's "oh they did not do anything wrong", then you have Russian athletes taking their equivalent of aspirin and it's "all hell break loose".

Hypocrits!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:30 pm

I am from the "West" and I don't really like Sharapova....but above all I don't like to lie to myself and make the effort to view the world from the opposite side too.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:35 pm

my argument never had anything to do with the reasons why meldonium was suddenly banned or the possible political agenda behind it
all i was pointing out was that  i believe that sharapova is lying and that there are many flaws in her story
but if you want to talk about the possible politics involved lets me ask you this
is it your opinion that maria and the russians were specifically "set up" by wada through banning meldonium?
is this basically wha youre trying to say?

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:51 pm

Yes cause I certainly do not see any flaw in her story. She made a mistake about not being informed in time for a drug which was suddenly "found out" to be PE in Sept 15 and added to list in Dec15.

She would have never compromised her career for that kind of drug had she known it was banned. She is not that stupid.

I think you want to see her guilty and you are doing your best to convince yourself.....cause frankly, the story is very simple and straightforward.
We, on this forum, are not afraid of far fetched ideas about ways of doping...but nothing I heard about this case makes it a credible case of cheating.

Cas seems also to have found out irregularities in the way the ITF has conductued itself here.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Veejay on Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:12 pm

i dont need to try and convince myself of anything least of all that maria is guilty
she is guilty because she has been found guilty,if she wasnt guilty then CAS would have acquitted her and cleared her of all doping charges.she tested positive for a banned substance and is currently serving a 15 month ban so i dont need to convince myself of that because thats the reality 
if CAS found out irregularities in the way the ITF conducted itself in the case then why was maria not acquitted?
i also dont believe that she was set up because even she claims that there was an email sent which she supposedly didnt happen to read.so she was made aware of the fact that the drug was being banned which in my opinion rules out any possibility of trying to set her up
what about everyone else who was using meldonium,there had to be more athletes then just her,why did they potentially stop using it knowing  that it would be banned but not maria?
the biggest argument here shouldnt be why the drug was banned,it should be why was maria taking the drug when it was banned
thats what its all about,she broke the rules,whether she intended to do it or not,she committed the crime 
to claim ignorance of this is just too convenient and excuse especially when it comes to the subject of doping 
you say nothing in this case makes it a credible case of cheating,well let me ask you this,why did maria not disclose on a doping control form that she was still using meldonium if she never knew that the drug was banned?
surely if she was still under the impression that it was legal then why the need to try to hide that?
that in my opinion is very incriminating and is why i simply wont believe her 
i maintain my stance on this,if you have done nothing wrong then there is no reason to lie about anything or try to hide anything

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Daniel on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:01 pm

Veejay is right. She is guilty because she was found guilty - and even then she has got off lightly. The truth of the matter is that Tenez, for some bizarre reason, is protecting her.  I find it extraordinary that someone who is continually ranting about drug cheats should protect one that has actually been found out and charged and convicted.  Why this double standard?  Surely it isn't because she has nice boobs?  Laugh

And if Nadal had been found doing this, hands up who thinks Tenez and co would be giving the benefit of the doubt. They'd be here saying he's as guilty as sin and to ban him.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by legendkillar on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:08 am

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:


Does consistent use of Ibuprofen Aspirin contribute to continuous functionality when not required?

Be sensible!

What does that mean?

Meldonium is not proven to be any different than Ibu and aspirin. Both could also be considered perf enhancing cause without it players would really struggle to have matches in succession.

Like Vee you always avoid the subject of how Melodonium was most likely singled out and added to the list cause it essentially affected Russian athletes.

As I pointed to you the other day, those ruling WADA are not Russian, are they? 99% are from NATO!

It's so bloody obvious how partial the press is on the subject. You expose "our" cheats from TUEs  and it's "oh they did not do anything wrong", then you have Russian athletes taking their equivalent of aspirin and it's "all hell break loose".

Hypocrits!


The point I was making Tenez is that even if you think Aspirin or Ibuprofen or any other substance like that which you feel has low side effects and less enhancing and beneficial properties, it does not make sense for a 'healthy' individual to be taking such substances for sustained use. Any doctor worth their salt would tell you as such. I take the same stance on TUE's like in the case of Wiggins which I find disgraceful and watching him to try and explain it away that he changes medication right before a big race. It's the same principle. Someone being prescribed something that isn't to aid them from a health perspective and add quality of life, but to cheat and enhance performance.

The point you are missing is that Sharapova was guilty and I am with Vee on this. Regardless of nationality. Guilty. She isn't some martyr that is hard done by. Crikey Alan Baxter was done for a Vicks inhaler! Didn't hear the cries of victimisation when that happened which is very minute in comparison to Sharapova.

This isn't political. Just because someone from a country under intense media scrutiny is done for doping doesn't excuse them from the offence. The whole TUE has exposed what a sham WADA are and what a sham the rulebook is. No amount of cleaning up will ever take the tainted label it will have.

Let's not kid ourselves that athletes never look for that edge regardless of what form it comes in.

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:25 pm

But you know LK that all athletes take aspirin and Ibuy everyday almost during the whole of their career, don't you?

I mentioned the case of Steffi who took a minimum of 8 ibuprofen of 400mg each every day!

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Re: Sharapova announces failed drug test

Post by Tenez on Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:28 pm

And I'd like to add that Sport at that level is certainly not healthy and those guys are compromising their health to make a living cause they abuse their bodies beyond reasonable.

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