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ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Daniel on Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:29 pm

I watched the highlights on DailyMotion and I don't think it was a great match by dimi at all.  Sloppy play, slow play, brainless play (hardly any net approaches or short balls or drop shots - as usual).  Nadal played even worse - the same old defensive game that he can't maintain now.

And yeah - his length was terrible, Tenez.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:29 am

Tenez wrote:I m travelling so have not followed up much tennis but I just saw a clip ofrom Nadal v Dimi. It's quite interesting as Nadal was playing so close to the lines....yet he got hammered. The reason is simple: players can now easily handle his shots and more importantly they are not afraid of the 20 shots rallies anymore. Dimi was running like crazy....but Nadal was force to stand close to the lines and at this game many are better than Nadal. Dimi played very solid....that's all one needs nowadays. Rafa game is so passé. He won't win another slam.

Typical case of the tour catching up with a one trick poney player.

Me, too. (travelling & watching)

Yes, interesting to see him play close to the baseline.
He must be very confident in his practice.

But not in the match - hence the short length unless he displaced Dimi so had more time.

And it's the first time he has gone back to moonball even on the baseline!
Maybe that's why the length has gone down, too. Last 1-2 years since he started to move closer - he also tried to lflatten his shots...but still with no success...so maybe this was the experiment....which failed, hehe.
There is only so many different ways you can boil an egg!

Knowing Nadal, he'll keep going and working, working....but this matchnwill definitely deflate his ambitions.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Veejay on Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:26 pm

was really hoping that dimitrov will break through...looks like its time to give up hope for him but at least theres lots of hope for nick kyrgios 
and rafael nadal wins another title..( in doubles) looks like those will be the only titles he will win from now onwards...

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Daniel on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:47 pm

He'll get no joy out of those wins because he is a narcissist who doesn't want to share glory with anyone else.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:04 pm

I think Nadal played with a better length in China than any of his 2010 matches and even 2013. At least in the clip that I posted above and we can see clearly that he loses points in spite of long rallies, good length and standing close to the baseline. 

It just shows that the better he plays the less an impact he makes cause simply the opposition has got much better than 6 or 3 years ago. 

End of story.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Daniel on Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:05 pm

He isn't playing better and that's a fact.  Whether you like it or not.  No big winner like Nadal or Federer play better after 28 than before. Very few even come close regardless. You're clutching at straws as I said you would.  You change the goalposts to chime in with what you want to be true. You deny stats and biology and blame him losing on opposition. So now Murray, Nishikori, and Raonic are better than Nadal when he was winning 14 slams?  Haha.  Please.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:32 am

Murray''s notes against Dimitrov:

"Attack his 2nd serve;
Don't let him dictate with his forehand;
When he slices, look to hit on your forehand, make sure there is something on that ball;
Open up his forehand to make him move into backhand;
Hit with height and pace into his backhand when you can;
Stay calm and breathe."

http://m.imgur.com/4JkCxsB?r

So basically....total negative tennis...nothing proactive and forward ...oh wait, that's called instinctive tennis and for that you don't need the notes! doh: Just....


KEEP CALM
&
BREEEEEEEATHEEEEE

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:58 am

"Stay calm and breathe" Laugh Laugh Laugh

Is that before after like the 908th rant?

As much as I would like to crap on Dimitrov, he has shown a bit of a recovery in form since the US Hardcourt swing. There are positive signs there. Just whether that translates into next season. His form has been horrible since 2015.

As for Murray and number 1 ambitions go, it will be a limp over the line rather than a final flourish of big tournament victories. Basically if Novak dips again, you can imagine Murray pipping him with a 250 event win or something!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:58 am

Tenez wrote:http://www.batmanstream.com/tennis-live-streaming-video-2016-20.html

This is so much better than the small screens....I find.

It works in Serbia!!!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:38 am

Some good matches on the 250 scene today

Stockholm
Dimitrov vs Anderson
Karlovic vs Del Potro

Antwerp
Edmund vs Seppi
Gasquet vs Struff
Goffin vs Copil

Moscow
Fognini vs Ramos-Vinolas
Bellucci vs Kohlschreiber

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:43 am

I am actually curious about that other young Russian:

Alexander Bublik. He is only 5 month older than Rublev and beat Rublev and Agut to get to the 1/4F of Moscow.

Shoudl be interesting so see how he fares in that 1/4F.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:49 am

He hasn't registered on my radar I have to say. Indeed he has had some interesting results. Plays another Spaniard today.

See what others think of the young man.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:51 am

Mmm...anyone ov 20 who can beat Agut is worthy of attention.

He also fits my talent theory Big Grin


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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:52 am

noleisthebest wrote:Mmm...anyone over 20 who can beat Agut is worthy of attention.

He also fits my talent theory of still face at the point of contact Big Grin


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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:26 pm

Yes...though Agut was very tired from last week, jet lag and another 3 setter the day before. So I woudl not read too much into this as Bublik had also an easy round the previous round.

However we seem to have 3 promising Russians now with tall Khash!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:43 pm

Tall Khach went down to Dzumhur in Moscow...though it was three close sets.
I am always sceptical about these very tall players, can't imagine them competing consistently week in week out.

He is not quite a giraffe like Isner/Karlovic to be living off his serve, so more like Vesely and JJ.

I saw a young blond (!!!) Greek vs GG in Boodles this summer, SBH, lovely player, only 18.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/stefanos-tsitsipas/te51/overview

There is a lot of talent coming through, just a matter of "teams" and the support they get.

Look at Chung!

Looks like a lost chicken in the middle of a lonely field. Doesn't know what do do.... Yet he did so well as a junior and managed to travel fine.

I don't know...just happy we have Pouille . smiley

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:21 pm

Feel that way with Ymer. Thought he would do better, but hasn't. They could well be late bloomers (Tenez's theory) in which they mature and develop later on. Any setbacks now and how they come through often sets them in the stead later on.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:33 pm

When you are a shot maker the margins between winning and losing are extremely thin. It affects the mind, confidence and so on. So much dependent on the form of the day too.

That's why they take longer to develop. But tall players can still hit hard with safer margins....they can therefore be successful earlier (Delpo, Rao, Zverev...) but then they are really prone to injuries.

To me Stan is the perfect example of teh late boomer. 3 slams between 29 to 31yo. Who woudl have thought that when he was 27?

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:05 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Mmm...anyone ov 20 who can beat Agut is worthy of attention.

He also fits my talent theory Big Grin


Well, I just saw one game, and not impressed...not to mention all those tattoos... Yikes

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:14 pm

On second look niw that he's relaxed...not that bad, he's def has something, lot of power for such a "clean" frame
and doesn't waste time.

All shots decent. He's got a game inside him, not a basher.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:45 pm

he certainly is very skilled.Makes lots of easy errors but has an easy tennis.

he is teh Russian version of Kyrgios. Not a fan of teh tatoos either.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:49 pm

Or is he the Russian Dustin Brown......with all his incredible drop shots?

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:22 pm

Zverev..what a retriever! He retrieves everything and with a purpose.

Kamke had 2 points for double break in the second set and lost the set in the TB.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:18 am

Tenez wrote:Or is he the Russian Dustin Brown......with all his incredible drop shots?

Or JJ?

I'd like to believe he is not Kyrgios...who looks better on TV than in real life...and despite good serve and easy power I don't think he is good enough to sustain it and be consistent.

he is definitely an interesting, confident player, I only saw a little bit, kept dropping off.

I liked his serve, too.

But what will he do with his talent...those tats don't give me much confidence....


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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:22 am

Tenez wrote:Zverev..what a retriever! He retrieves everything and with a purpose.

Kamke had 2 points for double break in the second set and lost the set in the TB.

He wins many of his matches like that.
Last year I said he was a talented version of Murray, though this year (with the help of more muscles) he is hitting the ball harder and with more confidence (still safely), and that seemed to have worked fine - he's found his formula to "break through".

But without the muscles he'd be behind Rublev.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 pm

Just as I mentioned the young Greek the other day thinking I may see his name one day again, he's playing Haase tomorrow in the final round of qualies in Basel!

Basel Draw:
http://lle.iq2u.net/files/PortalDocs/LLE1%20-%2026%20Book%20return%20slip.docx.pdf
Basel order of play
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/328/op.pdf

&

Vienna Draw:
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/337/mds.pdf
Vienna order of Play
http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2016/337/op.pdf


Pouille in Murray's quarter again!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:54 pm

Murray is relentless. He is desperate.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:52 am

Provided Nole is healthy, I wouldn't mind it seeing them play WTF final.

But, for me, the rest of 2016 is almost a write-off.

Hope youngsters can position themselves well for 2017.

Keen to see how this young Greek Tsitsios goes (qualies in Basel his very first ATP matches, and how soon Pouille cracks top 8-10.
I'd love to watch him in O2 next year.

Murray...whatever he achieves will be shortlived. He just doesn't have the weapons.
It's all so strained and streched.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:44 pm

Of course his number 1 spot will bd relatively short lived....but the fact he managed to get is testimony of his grit and willpower.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:16 am

Watched Berdych vs Basilashvilli last night. What a choke fest that was! 2 sets of pure choke and lack of guts!

Glad Berdych lost. Hopefully Goffin can catch him in the race. Have to feel Thiem will make it and that it will be a straight fight between Goffin and Berdych.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by bogbrush on Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:04 am

Tenez wrote:Of course his number 1 spot will bd relatively short lived....but the fact he managed to get is testimony of his grit and willpower.
Who is going to displace him? If by short lived you mean a year then I'd agree, but once there I could see him holding it through most of 2017. It'll be a cruise up to Wimbledon.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:34 pm

Tenez wrote:Of course his number 1 spot will bd relatively short lived....but the fact he managed to get is testimony of his grit and willpower.

More a testimony to the power of LTA.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:04 am

bogbrush wrote:
Tenez wrote:Of course his number 1 spot will bd relatively short lived....but the fact he managed to get is testimony of his grit and willpower.
Who is going to displace him? If by short lived you mean a year then I'd agree, but once there I could see him holding it through most of 2017. It'll be a cruise up to Wimbledon.
Djoko will get it back and then someone younger.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Tenez on Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:05 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Of course his number 1 spot will bd relatively short lived....but the fact he managed to get is testimony of his grit and willpower.

More a testimony to the power of LTA.
why? What have they got to do with it?

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:52 am

I don't know where to start...

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:02 am

This whole thing that the LTA was behind Murray's surge is the biggest load of nonsense!

Yes Gilbert was on the LTA books, but the man was tied into a long contract and once they decided his role was obsolete, he worked with Murray, but after that was relegated to work with Bogdanovic!

Hardly power now is it.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:48 am

Great results for the Austrian contingent last night. Thiem looked very sharp and Melzer played very well.

Dimitrov and Raonic out in Basel.

Monfils and Thiem look dead certs for WTF.

Last berth for Berdych/Goffin/Cillic. Come on Goffy!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:30 am

I think LTA/ITF are pushing Murray same way Nadal was pushed in the past.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:53 am

And the rationale for that thinking is?

There are 4 players above him in the mens game who raked in more in endorsements alone than what he did with winnings and endorsements combined!

I doubt sponsors look at Murray and think of him as a commercial wet dream.

So I doubt even the ITF are looking at 'pushing' him as you think.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:55 am

I posted many threads about Djokovic since Wimbledon...but people can't seem to be able to read between the lines.

Don't you think it's a strange coincidence with Murray's "rise" and Nole's "fall"?

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by luvsports! on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:10 am

The LTA have poisoned Nole!

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:45 am

luvsports! wrote:The LTA have poisoned Nole!
Or "healed" Murray with TUEs.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:51 am

And the ITF/LTA have instigated that??

This reminds me of that Simpsons episode in which Homer calls himself Mr X. Winking

Djokovic himself has admitted several times that he has struggled to recapture his dominant form post RG. With the off court distractions also not helping with his headspace and even yourself blaming the wife and her lifestyle!

It was discussed that Murray has found an opportunity in what can loosely be called a diminished field. 2 of his rivals out of the picture and one in woeful form.

Where is the payoff in pushing Murray who is 29 going on 30 when they game really needs to thrive off youngsters? Murray isn't going to bring fresh eyes to the sport.

Crikey I think even Kyrgios has done more in attracting more eyes on the sport than anyone in 2016!

I find it strange that Djokovic's form has dipped since Jahu's appearance on OTF. That has more merit.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by Jahu on Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:17 pm

Blame me again?

Well I predicted before RG that Djoko wins, he won't care any more for Tennis.

And why should he? Lots of money, soon to be single, compensate now the years he lost as tennis player, but with loads of money, what a god send recipe.

He knows no one will remember him when he quits, might as well enjoy his money.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:38 pm

legendkillar wrote:And the ITF/LTA have instigated that??

This reminds me of that Simpsons episode in which Homer calls himself Mr X. Winking

Have 't seen that episode...what's the point?

legendkillar wrote:

Djokovic himself has admitted several times that he has struggled to recapture his dominant form post RG. With the off court distractions also not helping with his headspace and even yourself blaming the wife and her lifestyle!

That's just the PR BS.

legendkillar wrote:
It was discussed that Murray has found an opportunity in what can loosely be called a diminished field. 2 of his rivals out of the picture and one in woeful form.
But doesn't it surprise you that his main rival is in woeful form.

When did that happen last?  We are talking Novak Djokovic here.

legendkillar wrote:

Where is the payoff in pushing Murray who is 29 going on 30 when they game really needs to thrive off youngsters? Murray isn't going to bring fresh eyes to the sport.

Crikey I think even Kyrgios has done more in attracting more eyes on the sport than anyone in 2016!
It's not all about money.

Just ask Sharapova.

legendkillar wrote:

I find it strange that Djokovic's form has dipped since Jahu's appearance on OTF. That has more merit.

Jahu is a triple agent.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:13 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:And the ITF/LTA have instigated that??

This reminds me of that Simpsons episode in which Homer calls himself Mr X. Winking

Have 't seen that episode...what's the point?

legendkillar wrote:

Djokovic himself has admitted several times that he has struggled to recapture his dominant form post RG. With the off court distractions also not helping with his headspace and even yourself blaming the wife and her lifestyle!

That's just the PR BS.

legendkillar wrote:
It was discussed that Murray has found an opportunity in what can loosely be called a diminished field. 2 of his rivals out of the picture and one in woeful form.
But doesn't it surprise you that his main rival is in woeful form.

When did that happen last?  We are talking Novak Djokovic here.

legendkillar wrote:

Where is the payoff in pushing Murray who is 29 going on 30 when they game really needs to thrive off youngsters? Murray isn't going to bring fresh eyes to the sport.

Crikey I think even Kyrgios has done more in attracting more eyes on the sport than anyone in 2016!
It's not all about money.

Just ask Sharapova.

legendkillar wrote:

I find it strange that Djokovic's form has dipped since Jahu's appearance on OTF. That has more merit.

Jahu is a triple agent.


1) The point is making as many allegations as possible in the hope one might be right Winking light humour I will add.

2) That's your belief, however I can't vouch for what is true and what isn't as I am not a fly on the wall. Many on forums far and wide actually held the belief I did in that how would Djokovic retain momentum and motivation after winning RG.

3) It doesn't surprise me. Look past Djokovic. Nadal was showing some form and Federer was remaining consistent. Federer is injured. Nadal's form fell like a stone RG and after and is now on the shelf with Federer. Let me ask why it surprises you that Murray's confidence has shot up since 2 of the players who for years had Murray's number are out of the equation is now showing an upturn in his fortunes? He doesn't have to hope that just Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are taken out at one tournament anymore. Just 1.

4) Your right. It's not. However, sport needs marketable people. The public perception for me is that Murray is a bit wooden. So I ask, why would the ITF/LTA push Murray as the face of the sport given the longevity still to be sought from Federer, Nadal and even Djokovic? Federer is a sporting icon. There is no way on this planet the ITF would be looking past him just yet. Murray is at the wrong end of his career to be considered as carrying the mantle of tennis. Unless of course the other 3 suddenly died!

5) I wouldn't want to be in a bunker with him! Winking

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Re: 3

I know Nole. It's none of that "burn out" blah-blah.
Apart from Federer, he is the most ambitious player, probably ever.

Those people may get injured and tired, but their hunger never dies.

Only his body will stop Federer playing & competing.
He needs no motivation.

Nole is the same in that respect.

And he's been quite unlucky and shoved in the corner during golden Fedal years.

If you remember, nobody talked about his popularity at the start of his career.
He was quite likeable "new" player when he beat numbers 3,2 and 1 (Roddick, Nadal, Federer) back to back in Montreal 2007.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:34 pm

I don't think Nole is physically burnt out, just more mentally struggling with the "did it" when achieving the CGS. When you list achievements, CGS would very much be the top of any players list. He's done that now and you can't really top that. So anything after that is either equal or lesser. It's not uncommon for athletes to have a big come down after achieving a career's work.

Djokovic has forced the issue to be one of the 'faces' of tennis and rightfully so with his level of play and achievements. He is getting the recognition he deserves.

Before Fedal, tennis was in transition and it needed someone who was going to take it in one direction and Hewitt and Safin did have a great chance until 2003 when Federer kicked into overdrive. Federer is a sporting dynasty with the likes of Woods and Bolt. With every passing year he gets older you can hear sponsors and bodies alone sweating whether he calls it a day or not.

Just encapsulate that point. When Woods (post his Clintonesq show) announced a break from the sport in 2011, Golf viewing in the US alone fell by 51%!! I expect similar when Federer departs.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:00 pm

legendkillar wrote:Great results for the Austrian contingent last night. Thiem looked very sharp and Melzer played very well.

Dimitrov and Raonic out in Basel.

Monfils and Thiem look dead certs for WTF.

Last berth for Berdych/Goffin/Cillic. Come on Goffy!
I only saw Pouille lose the won match. Angry

I hope Goffin qualifies.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

Post by legendkillar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:02 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
legendkillar wrote:Great results for the Austrian contingent last night. Thiem looked very sharp and Melzer played very well.

Dimitrov and Raonic out in Basel.

Monfils and Thiem look dead certs for WTF.

Last berth for Berdych/Goffin/Cillic. Come on Goffy!
I only saw Pouille lose the won match. Angry

I hope Goffin qualifies.


Been a great end to the season for Pouille. Let's hope he shows some metal from here on out that his previous compatriots lacked.

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Re: ATP 250/500 2016 - Basel, Vienna

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