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2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Autumnleaf on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:57 am

Dimitrov did very good. He should be very proud of himself. His serving consistency seems to have improved. Very few errors. Physically he is on top. His return game is still not quite up there, but he was playing the guy with the 3rd best service game in the ATP. If he keeps this up, he can go far in the AO with a good draw.

Federer not quite at his current best, Dimitrov's intensity higher than his, but his great service game got him through. Might have suffered from the remnants of his cold, was coughing from time to time.

So happy Thiem made it through. Caught the end of the 2nds set and the 3rd set. He still is easily pushed back which will hurt him in his next match. It also gave Cilic chances, but he couldn't take advantage because Thiem found a first serve when needed. His service game seems greatly improved in consistency, his return game looked shaky, but in the end he got the one break he needed when Cilic started to lose the plot. Physically and mentally Thiem is very strong. I hope he can surprise in the slow HC/ clay season.

Surprised Tomic defeated Nishikori. Haven't seen the match and I know Tomic has improved last year, but still... I expected more from Nishikori.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:00 pm

Yes we saw it alike AL.

What's worrying for Dimi though is that Thiem is at his level already.....with 3 years to spare.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:07 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Bottom line, on the level playing field (SBH), Fed beats a 10 year younger player.

Sure, but likewise, I think Dimi 34 woudl beat Fed 24. The game moved on so much in 10 years!

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:38 pm

But Dimi at 34 will not play S&V like Fed. Nor will he attempt SABR.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:39 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:He reminds me Haas quite a bit....with a better mind probably.
Yes, nice all-court game, but Haas was a smoother ball-striker.
I suppose different era.
I find Thiem more aggressive - he is closer to Fed to me in that way.
Closer to Haas in my view. Like all modern players they don;t have Fed's finess....well not yet at least.
You misread my post.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:55 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes we saw it alike AL.

What's worrying for Dimi though is that Thiem is at his level already.....with 3 years to spare.
That's Dimi's own fault.
Thiem does not calculate and is more aggressive.
Dimi's got better since Rasheed left, but still not as aggressive as he needs to be in order to start winning big titles.

Of course he can only be as aggressive/good as his talent allows him, in order to play within himself and not be reckless.

Today he attacked a lot but compared to Fed looked conservative and that made the difference, Fed's shots were closer to the line.
Which, of course is fine, it was good tennis and a nice match.

I like Dimi's game much more this year, he is still only 24, and a very good 24-year old.

He's excellent at defending, and that's a big plus for him being a SBH-er (esp in current era).

Also, very good and natural on grass.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:51 pm

Marchenko is a bery dangurus opponent, no ? Bery happen to win this tough match for sure.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:57 pm

DT why don't you support Djoko as much as Nadal? he is simply a better version of your man!

He scraps everythng v Berdych. Berdych was a break up in the first set and ball for 4/2 on his serve.

Then lost 6/3.


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:58 pm

I will be travelling to Seattle tomorrow am. Is FK from there? I se sometimes a guest or a member from there. Just going there for a week....but will miss the finals tomorrow.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:11 pm

Tomorrow for the first time, Djoko will have a chance to overtake Nadal in their H2H!!!!

Certainly a big turn around for both!

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:16 pm

Tenez wrote:DT why don't you support Djoko as much as Nadal? he is simply a better version of your man!

Because Nadal is a lot more exciting to watch for me.

Djokovic is slightly more efficient, and maybe less of a roller coaster ride for fans. He can win majority points without necessarily attacking or defending.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:17 pm

Tenez wrote:Tomorrow for the first time, Djoko will have a chance to overtake Nadal in their H2H!!!!

Certainly a big turn around for both!
Djokovic keeps wrecking Nadal now that he has totally declined.
Between 2012-2014, Nadal actually was up in the H2H.

Even Fognini has a winning H2H vs Nadal since 2015.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:17 pm

I put £10 on Djokovic to win in straights when he was a break down in a first set, basically £30 in the bag.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:52 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:I put £10 on Djokovic to win in straights when he was a break down in a first set, basically £30 in the bag.
yes...little dividends despite Berds being a break up. smart though.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:55 pm

'Tomas is an established top 10 player'
Djokovic heaping huge praise on Berdych here.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:18 pm

Tenez wrote:I will be travelling to Seattle tomorrow am. Is FK from there? I se sometimes a guest or a member from there. Just going there for a week....but will miss the finals tomorrow.
And I am going to Belgrade on Sunday.
And I also see a guest from there from time to time.

But not as often as the one in Seattle and a few other spots.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:16 pm

Tenez wrote:Tomorrow for the first time, Djoko will have a chance to overtake Nadal in their H2H!!!!

Certainly a big turn around for both!

I got to the stage where I don't care.
I mean, I barely watched any of their matches even when I did.

In a strange way, all tenns history in the last 10 years feels fake.

Watching how many play now, it's hard to relate to them. Same as I can't relate to all these people full of piercings and tattoos and weird haircuts everywhere.

Only when I watch live tennis players look real.
TV cameras and the suffocating PR-ed commentating make it distant and plastic.
Also the "social media"... "kids' days", "charity matches"...it's all one tasteless Macdonalds hamburger.
You eat it and you are still hungry.
You've seen a match, but you haven't seen tennis.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:41 pm

But having said all the above...(sorry Donald, this s really mothing personal), I want to see Nadal beaten as much as possible.
I want to see his angry, frustrated face.

And never biting another trophy.


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:42 pm

He doesn't get angry and frustrated when he loses, well not so far when he's lost in his career.
He seems to have a good attitude, to try and take each loss and then work to improve his own game. I still remember his reaction to losing the heartbreak of AO 2012 final, that pain actually propelled him.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:43 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
In a strange way, all tenns history in the last 10 years feels fake.
yes I see what you mean. they are the 2 fittest players ever and that is simply why they have such a great rivalry. Their consistency, at the expense of their talent, made them reach a maximum of final rounds. But neither will be remembered for their shot making ability. Against berdych today it was really obvious.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:45 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:He doesn't get angry and frustrated when he loses, well not so far when he's lost in his career.
He seems to have a good attitude, to try and take each loss and then work to improve his own game. I still remember his reaction to losing the heartbreak of AO 2012 final, that pain actually propelled him.
That's just PR.

Nadal hates losing like noone else on tour.

He hates it so badly he banned Bernardes, wanted to introduce 2 year protected ranking...

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:46 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:He doesn't get angry and frustrated when he loses, well not so far when he's lost in his career.
Similar to Djoko. Cause both are amazed to have actually amassed so many trophies with poor tennis but extreme fitness. If I were them I'd be extremely happy too. It's going to be different in the near future as guys like Thiem mature as fitness won't be enough to win trophies. Very similar to when Fed came around, Hewitt could no longer win slams based on fitness alone.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:51 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
In a strange way, all tenns history in the last 10 years feels fake.
yes I see what you mean. they are the 2 fittest players ever and that is simply why they have such a great rivalry. Their consistency, at the expense of their talent, made them reach a maximum of final rounds. But neither will be remembered for their shot making ability. Against berdych today it was really obvious.

I literally only saw the match point of that match.
Why would I torture myself with it any more.

But it didn't always use to be like that.

I am very glad Nole has metaphorically slain the beast, but the price he had to pay was high.
It's sad for me as an ex-fan, but he is probably still quite happy.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:52 pm

I'm not saying he likes losing, obviously any professional doesn't hate losing- especially someone as competitive as Nadal.
But I do think that he has a good attitude when he does lose, as much as he doesn't like it, he doesn't get angry but tries to improve. Having a good attitude when you lose is very important I think to being successful. For example, I don't think someone like Dimitrov reacts the right way mentally.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:52 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
In a strange way, all tenns history in the last 10 years feels fake.
yes I see what you mean. they are the 2 fittest players ever and that is simply why they have such a great rivalry. Their consistency, at the expense of their talent, made them reach a maximum of final rounds. But neither will be remembered for their shot making ability. Against berdych today it was really obvious.
Nadal will be remembered for genius like this:


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:54 pm

Tenez wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:He doesn't get angry and frustrated when he loses, well not so far when he's lost in his career.
Similar to Djoko. Cause both are amazed to have actually amassed so many trophies with poor tennis but extreme fitness. If I were them I'd be extremely happy too. It's going to be different in the near future as guys like Thiem mature as fitness won't be enough to win trophies. Very similar to when Fed came around, Hewitt could no longer win slams based on fitness alone.

But quite scary and depressing to see Coric ground Agut in three sets today.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:04 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:I'm not saying he likes losing, obviously any professional doesn't hate losing- especially someone as competitive as Nadal.
But I do think that he has a good attitude when he does lose, as much as he doesn't like it, he doesn't get angry but tries to improve. Having a good attitude when you lose is very important I think to being successful. For example, I don't think someone like Dimitrov reacts the right way mentally.

Yes, Nadal is very competitive, but if you really want an ultimate competitor look at Federer.

He is such an amazing full package - people don't even notice/mention that side of him.
He gets praises for talent and grace, but it's his dedication and hard work that are as good if not better than Nadal's.

But the longer I watch him, it's his lion's heart that stands out more and more.
It's deeply beautiful and moving.

I have seen Nole and I have even seen Nadal stop fighting in a match. Many other players do it all the time.
But I have never seen Federer stop.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:21 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:I'm not saying he likes losing, obviously any professional doesn't hate losing- especially someone as competitive as Nadal.
But I do think that he has a good attitude when he does lose, as much as he doesn't like it, he doesn't get angry but tries to improve. Having a good attitude when you lose is very important I think to being successful. For example, I don't think someone like Dimitrov reacts the right way mentally.

Yes, Nadal is very competitive, but if you really want an ultimate competitor look at Federer.

He is such an amazing full package - people don't even notice/mention that side of him.
He gets praises for talent and grace, but it's his dedication and hard work that are as good if not better than Nadal's.

But the longer I watch him, it's his lion's heart that stands out more and more.
It's deeply beautiful and moving.

I have seen Nole and I have even seen Nadal stop fighting in a match. Many other players do it all the time.
But I have never seen Federer stop.
Nadal is definitely a better competitor than Federer. I think even Federer and most of his fans would agree with this. I do agree that Federer is a great competitor though, and maybe is underestimated in that regard.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:34 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:Nadal  is definitely a better competitor than Federer. I think even Federer and most of his fans would agree with this. I do agree that Federer is a great competitor though, and maybe is underestimated in that regard.

What do you mean by greater competitor? One has won 17 slams, the other 14. What else do you need?

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:40 pm

Tenez wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:Nadal  is definitely a better competitor than Federer. I think even Federer and most of his fans would agree with this. I do agree that Federer is a great competitor though, and maybe is underestimated in that regard.

What do you mean by greater competitor? One has won 17 slams, the other 14. What else do you need?
You can have a GOAT debate with yourself if you want, but regardless I don't see more successful as necessarily being a better competitor.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:44 pm

You might say Nadal expresses more competitiveness (and I guess he has to) but as NITB says Fed never gave up and played through more injuries than Nadal who simply retired for weeks and months asa something was wrong.

What you see might not be what it is!

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:47 pm

You're making an assumption there though; on the other side of the coin it could be that Nadal played through great pain and only withdrew from tournaments when he literally could not play (like how Federer withdrew from the 2014 WTF final).

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:16 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:You're making an assumption there though; on the other side of the coin it could be that Nadal played through great pain and only withdrew from tournaments when he literally could not play (like how Federer withdrew from the 2014 WTF final).
More like you making up excuses for you rman....again.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:27 pm

Tenez wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:You're making an assumption there though; on the other side of the coin it could be that Nadal played through great pain and only withdrew from tournaments when he literally could not play (like how Federer withdrew from the 2014 WTF final).
More like you making up excuses for you rman....again.
That's the problem of being a "fan"...the irrational need to "defend" the indefensible!

And Nadal fans need a medal for their "loyalty". Winking

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:36 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree.
Neither can prove our case, it's possible that Nadal wasn't actually in that bad physical condition and could have played tournaments but withdrew; or it could be that he genuinely was in no fit state to play and would have just done more damage to his body by playing. Frankly I think the evidence is overwhelmingly in my favour, but there you go.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:37 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:You're making an assumption there though; on the other side of the coin it could be that Nadal played through great pain and only withdrew from tournaments when he literally could not play (like how Federer withdrew from the 2014 WTF final).
More like you making up excuses for you rman....again.
That's the problem of being a "fan"...the irrational need to "defend" the indefensible!

And Nadal fans need a medal for their "loyalty". Winking
I don't think the idea that when Nadal withdraws from a tournament due to injury it's because he can't play due to injury is 'indefensible' at all; I observe things logically unlike you and Tenez who hilariously come to any anti-Nadal conclusion you can despite evidence.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:41 pm

The evidence is that Nadal gave up the fight in last year's RG QF.
I don't believe he was either in pain or injured.


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:45 pm

noleisthebest wrote:The evidence is that Nadal gave up the fight in last year's RG QF.
I don't believe he was either in pain or injured.

He was playing terribly against Djokovic, he didn't give up but was simply outclassed. He struggled the match before against Jack Sock, that's how badly he was playing.

But I don't think that match is representative of Nadal's usual play, and certainly not of his usual play at the French Open, where he has quite a good record.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by summerblues on Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:19 am

Ah, before we know it tennis is back.  And with it, the three members of the big four once again all make the weekend play.  Murray playing Hopman Cup as usual (where he lost to Kyrgios, but that being an exho is sadly not the same).

Happy New Year to you all, and, of course, Let's Make America Great Again!

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by DECIMA on Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:22 am

summerblues wrote:
Happy New Year to you all, and, of course, Let's Make America Great Again!
Seconded on both counts Summerblues. Cool


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by Tenez on Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:55 am

Welcome back SB and happy new year to you. On a plane ready to take off to your big country.

Catch up on the other side.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:54 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:
summerblues wrote:
Happy New Year to you all, and, of course, Let's Make America Great Again!
Seconded on both counts Summerblues.  Cool


Wow!
This is the first time I actually heard your voice, Donald.
(one of the advantages of not watching TV).

...

It used to be: God bless America.
Now it would be more appropriate to say: God save America.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:01 am

Just saw the scores...Fed made quick work of Thiem.
Maybe he is not so close to Dimi after all Winking
(and he is probably not even close to Haas Run  )

Raonic beat Tomic in two close TBs.

I hope Fed sorts him out fast tomorrow. He sight of him with his tongue out is worse than his footwork.

Would like to catch Stan-Paire...now there's a sight for sore tennis eyes!
I assume Coric will beat Bedene in the other semi.

Seeing Coric grind and outlast much older players confirms WADA is doing NOTHING.
I hate it!

And last but not the least I saw that Nadal is hoping to beat Nole today.
Now that he's said that I have to watch the match! headhurts

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:25 am

Mmmmm....aybe Nadal's optimistic pre-match talk was based on this:

http://www.b92.net/sport/tenis/vesti.php?yyyy=2016&mm=01&dd=09&nav_id=1083253

Nole carrying a right hand injury.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Paire robbed of a game point, with his (hawk-eye shown) ace called out. Grr Grr Grr
As a result, Stan breaks.

Rubi and his mum watching in the crowd. She's aged from last summer!!! Yikes

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:19 pm

The court in Chennai is so slow, Stan has time to tie his shoelaces before lining up a BHDTL...

No wonder Coric was able to beat so many better players there.

I am not watching this misery.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:18 pm

I can't believe Nole has played Nadal 46 times, that's a lot!


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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:30 pm

Nadal defi itely nit able to play on the baseline when rushed.
Makes an UE every time.
Even the moonballs aren't buying him any time.

But he is as fit as ever and hitting the ball with all his might, just like in his "best' days.

So will probably be able to deal with 90% of the tour.

Nole's depth is impressive. And quite a few shots down the line. Nice.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:33 pm

Some physically brutal exchanges. Really brutal.
Both hitting the ball very hard. ALL THE TIME. Yikes

No time violation warnings so far.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:40 pm

26 shot rally finished by a great BH bullet frim Nole.

Nadal is basically not even attempting to attack from the basline, all he can do is keep the ball in play ad nauseum.

He finally manages to win a game, though.

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Re: 2016, ATP 250: Brisbane, Doha, Chennai/Sydney, Auckland

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