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ATP Tour Final - The Draw

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:34 pm

Tenez wrote:he is not as quick in position as he usually can...

I am not saying he is injured.....just that he is tired. I said 4 days ago that he won't win another slam....he simply cannot line up matches anymore. His game is too reliant on great timing and therefore tiredness/stiffness is killing him.

Absolutely.
And what a sad end to this match.

Really sad.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:35 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Castle is worse than Goodal and Koenig put together

yes.......he is awful. Knows his tennis...but chooses to talk for the for the 60yo lady who watches tennis one a year.

Henman sums it up again.....did not serve well enough.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:02 pm

I know it's not the end of the world but I still need a hug... Sad

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:33 pm

Yes...it's disappointing to see him lose so tamely. Djoko was everywhere and there was not much fed could do.

But frankly, I don't care much.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:05 pm

Well, knowing why he lost does ease the pain, but I can't say I don't care.

Mainly as time is running out for him.

For most other players off-season will mean rest, coming back fresh...for him - getting or should I say looking "older".

I just don't want the silver cord to be loosened.

Because his fresh tennis has been intoxicating this week.

And let's not kid ourselves, we are not going to see it ever again once he goes.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:31 pm

noleisthebest wrote:And let's not kid ourselves, we are not going to see it ever again once he goes.

It's not going to be exactly the same but sooner or later someone with a mission (like he had) will come and do better.

Some of us thought McEnroe was never going to be replicated, but we have had much better players since.

fed certainly is very special. But I am convinced someone will surprise us in the future.....Not sure when yet.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:45 pm

I shouldn't moan.
He is still playing. And how.

Just this nostalgia for present time gets to me from time to time.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:53 pm

And the more I am in that present time on my bicycle and a SBH the more world speeds by with its hi-tech trains and neon trainers.

I doubt we'll see another Fed.
The world is too poluted to produce anything pure any more.

Tennis like everything else money touches is now like a patient with terminal cancer.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:09 pm

Anyway...
Despite everything, while clocks tick and hearts beat, life goes on.
And tennis.

Triple-handed backhands will be lifting Wimbledon trophy in July every year...

Worst case scenario, there will always be some tennis wall somewhere for me to talk to.
Single-handedly.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:And the more I am in that present time on my bicycle and a SBH the more world speeds by with its hi-tech trains and neon trainers.

I doubt we'll see another Fed.
The world is too poluted to produce anything pure any more.

Tennis like everything else money touches is now like a patient with terminal cancer.

It's in the most stinky manure that grows the most beautiful flowers.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by DECIMA on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:20 pm

Tenez wrote:
fed certainly is very special. But I am convinced someone will surprise us in the future.....Not sure when yet.
Yes. Nadal. In Rio Open next year. Can't wait.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:31 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:
Tenez wrote:
fed certainly is very special. But I am convinced someone will surprise us in the future.....Not sure when yet.
Yes. Nadal. In Rio Open next year. Can't wait.

You should aim for higher expectations!

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:59 am

Fed has lost foot-speed, he often doesn't get his footwork right especially for the inside-in forehand DTL shots. This shot was once so lethal. He missed the first BP netting this very shot. And often the FH error comes playing this.

Fed may be doing well against other BIG servers but Djokovic is a smart server and the latter is proving more difficult for Fed. A block return isn't enough for Djokovic.Fed hasn't got a clear read on Djokovic's serve. Numerous BPs have been squandered this year just because Fed couldn't read Djokovic serve on the BP.
In fact Fed even struggles to read Djokovic's 2nd serves. 


Fed to beat Djokovic, he needs court pace assistance. This O2 court is was too slow and Djokovic can reach anywhere with time-to-spare.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:25 pm

So, was I right?  Did the nervous jibbering Federer who can't hit a first serve turn up?

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:16 pm


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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:54 pm

I think Fed can have at least one more excellent year.

The thing that cost him here in London was that third set against Nishikori.
Though he enjoyed it and played well, the intensity and speed of hitting with him for a set took away freshness from legs.

Which can explain why he was so aggressive against Stan.

Had he finshed Nishi off in straight sets (which he could have done with ease) and played the first semi, he may have had more spring in his step in the final.

So, not all doom and gloom.

Playing good tennis, enjoying life on tour, inspiring young and old, winning when doors open...I'm happy to settle for that.

And continue to dream.

A lot can happen in 7 months come Wimbledon!

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:09 pm

Federer yesterday:

"It's hard to play at this pace all the time, doesn't need much
We're talking margins. You don't win a breakpoint, he does, vice versa, it changes the whole outcome of the match. You can't always be on the winning side. [b"It's hard to play at this pace all the time, doesn't need muchWe're talking margins. You don't win a breakpoint, he does, vice versa, it changes the whole outcome of the match. You can't always be on the winning side. Margins are small at the very top. Margins are small at the very top."


Again, shows his optimism at seeing the loss for what it was.

Not an "awesome" win by Djokovic as the world is drumming on about in their worship-du-jour, just a few tired, unlucky shots from Federer.

We all saw how different he looked in their first match when he was fresh.

Even yesterday the match was on his racquet, but the legs were just lagging behind a bit.

Real shame, as everything else was superb and ready.

Same as in Wimbledon final.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:44 pm


You are scraping the barrel there, FK, I'm afraid.
Anabel Croft...eeeeerm....such a big head and so little inside it!

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:20 pm


like v Nadal, when you play versus physical players, the shot makers races versus time and that makes him nervous for sure. It's not Djoko he is scared of, it's Djoko's fitness....not quite teh same thing.

And frankly I don;t think he was quite nervous. As ROTLA and N says he was just a bit too slow today. I guess end of season...and age doesn't help.

Still he beat him first time around.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:19 pm

noleisthebest wrote:

You are scraping the barrel there, FK, I'm afraid.
Anabel Croft...eeeeerm....such a big head and so little inside it!

She's obviously not that stupid because she can see exactly what I and many others can.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:27 pm

FedererKing wrote:
She's obviously not that stupid because she can see exactly what I and many others can.
And who are the many others?

At the end of the day, I get a lot of pleasure from watching Federer's exquisite tennis.
I really don't have the need to tell others I am right or prove anything to anyone.
It's a happy place to be. smiley

I suppose Federer feels the same.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:47 am

Great tennis is nothing without belief and Fed's lack of it has cost him at least one of the last 3 Slam finals he's been in and probably a few against Nadal back in the day.  Djokovic is in his head and that's the last thing you want when you are 34 years old and not as good as you once were.  Every time Federer gets into a final these days against Novak, his first serve disappears and he falls apart.  He's lost 2012 and 2015 ATP finals final against Djokovic (and 2014 because he couldn't compete), The last 3 Slam finals against Djokovic, and 3 of the last 4 final encounters in Masters events to Djokovic.  That means in the highest levels of competition, Federer has lost 8 of 9 finals he has played against Djokovic.

That's a sign of more than just decline - it's nerves, and it's ABYSMAL, especially by Fed's standards. Those stats are hard cold facts.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:17 am

In fact, in the finals of Masters, ATP finals and Slams, Federer has only beaten Djokovic at Cincinatti (3 times).  Other than that, his last final win was in 2007 (US Open).  That's a horror statistic.

Federer seems to do far better against Djokovic in SF - I believe because the pressure is off compared to final.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:52 pm

FedererKing wrote:In fact, in the finals of Masters, ATP finals and Slams, Federer has only beaten Djokovic at Cincinatti (3 times).  Other than that, his last final win was in 2007 (US Open).  That's a horror statistic.

Federer seems to do far better against Djokovic in SF - I believe because the pressure is off compared to final.
You may have forgotten that Federer and Djokovic were drawn 12/12 in non-clay slams at one stage.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:29 pm

How does that change anything of what I said regarding the present?  It's like your brain just switches off when presented with an irrefutable set of stats and facts.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:04 pm

Well, you were the one who mentioned "the finals".

Djokovic and Federer were not able to meet in 12 consecutive finals on hard courts and grass during one period.

Those were the crucial years when tennis was not as physical as it is now, and Federer would've been fresher in those finals had they not been thwarted with rigged draws.

Remember who ended Djokovic's famous streak in 2011? 

Despite all, their H2H is still level, so not sure what your point is.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:16 am

FedererKing wrote:He's lost 2012 and 2015 ATP finals final against Djokovic (and 2014 because he couldn't compete), The last 3 Slam finals against Djokovic, and 3 of the last 4 final encounters in Masters events to Djokovic.  That means in the highest levels of competition, Federer has lost 8 of 9 finals he has played against Djokovic.

That's a sign of more than just decline - it's nerves, and it's ABYSMAL, especially by Fed's standards.

In fact, in the finals of Masters, ATP finals and Slams, Federer has only beaten Djokovic at Cincinatti (3 times).  Other than that, his last final win was in 2007 (US Open).  That's a horror statistic.

Federer seems to do far better against Djokovic in SF - I believe because the pressure is off compared to final.

That's what I said - and it's pretty crucial to my argument that Federer is shot in finals vs Djokovic.  For that matter, I wouldn't trust him in a final against Nadal either.  He is mentally just shot these days.  The only thing I am sorry about is that I didn't put a lot of money on him losing this final 0-2.

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