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ATP Tour Final - The Draw

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:51 pm

gallery play wrote:A really really good performance from Federer. I'm not sure if Djoko tried 100% though, there hasn't been often so much between these two. It will be hard for Federer to do this again in the final (assuming both will get there), but whatever. This one's the pocket. Thumbs Up

Exactly.....And Djoko will have to wait further to reverse that H2H.

I think Djoko tried very hard.....but I think something went wrong physically towards the end. It will be much harder for fed in the final....as there is no rest day between Finals and Semi.

Murray as number 2 is a real joke.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by gallery play on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:52 pm

Now that post match analysis by the man himself was pure entertainment!
Hopefully he'll do some commentating one day, doubt it though.

Q: would that bigger racket have helped against Rafa on clay?
Fed: uuuuhhmmmm, i like to think not..<laughs>
smiley

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by gallery play on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:56 pm

Tenez wrote:
gallery play wrote:A really really good performance from Federer. I'm not sure if Djoko tried 100% though, there hasn't been often so much between these two. It will be hard for Federer to do this again in the final (assuming both will get there), but whatever. This one's the pocket. Thumbs Up

Exactly.....And Djoko will have to wait further to reverse that H2H.

I think Djoko tried very hard.....but I think something went wrong physically towards the end. It will be much harder for fed in the final....as there is no rest day between Finals and Semi.

Murray as number 2 is a real joke.

Djoko was so timid, maybe he was overwhelmed by Federer's play or maybe he doesn't even care if he ends up first or second. But like you said: becker cared! Can't that idiot just stay in his seat?

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:05 pm

gallery play wrote:A really really good performance from Federer. I'm not sure if Djoko tried 100% though, there hasn't been often so much between these two.
I think Djokovic tried 100% in the first set, he was very, very good there. Could have gone either way. In the second set his level dropped, might be due to his typical 2nd set dip or might be he couldn't bring the intensity today because it was only RR match and he will reach SF without problems anyway. 

Berd would need to win a set and Nishikori to win for Djokovic to go home before SF. That is very unlikely to happen.


Last edited by Autumnleaf on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:07 pm

gallery play wrote:Now that post match analysis by the man himself was pure entertainment!
Hopefully he'll do some commentating one day, doubt it though.

Q: would that bigger racket have helped against Rafa on clay?
Fed: uuuuhhmmmm, i like to think not..<laughs>
smiley
Excellent answer!

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:10 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:

Berd would need to win a set and Nishikori to win for Djokovic to go home before SF. That is very unlikely to happen.

So Berdych winning a set, would give Federer a choice....interesting. Knowing Federer, he will still make sure to win.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by gallery play on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:17 pm

BTW: how about that shot behind the back? We were a few inches away from the ultimate toying shot. I doubt Becker would have survived that one, if it had touched the line Big Grin

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:20 pm

Tenez wrote:So Berdych winning a set, would give Federer a choice....interesting. Knowing Federer, he will still make sure to win.
Yeah, in a three-way-tie it should come down to sets and games won iirc. Coming in second might be preferable for Fed if Murray can beat Nadal tomorrow though. Still don't think he will give it much thought and just play to win.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:21 pm

gallery play wrote:BTW: how about that shot behind the back? We were a few inches away from the ultimate toying shot. I doubt Becker would have survived that one, if it had touched the line Big Grin
That could have been shot of the tournament if it had gone in.  Laugh Would have been nice to see Becker's punchable face drop. (Is it bad that I really can't stand the guy?)

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Autumnleaf on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:23 pm

Tenez wrote:Djoko will never be called the best ever....cause at 34....Djoko will be number 42 in the world.....if that!
You mean, he will do that much worse than Ferrer? I somehow doubt that.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by gallery play on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:34 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW: how about that shot behind the back? We were a few inches away from the ultimate toying shot. I doubt Becker would have survived that one, if it had touched the line Big Grin
That could have been shot of the tournament if it had gone in.  Laugh Would have been nice to see Becker's punchable face drop. (Is it bad that I really can't stand the guy?)
Are you kidding? He's so full of himself

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:43 pm

gallery play wrote:BTW: how about that shot behind the back? We were a few inches away from the ultimate toying shot. I doubt Becker would have survived that one, if it had touched the line Big Grin

he will keep that one for the final.

Becker must hate Fed to guts and I am sure it is reciprocal.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:45 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
gallery play wrote:BTW: how about that shot behind the back? We were a few inches away from the ultimate toying shot. I doubt Becker would have survived that one, if it had touched the line Big Grin
That could have been shot of the tournament if it had gone in.  Laugh Would have been nice to see Becker's punchable face drop. (Is it bad that I really can't stand the guy?)

All sensible persons can't stand him either. Such a pr!ck!

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:49 pm

Autumnleaf wrote:
Tenez wrote:Djoko will never be called the best ever....cause at 34....Djoko will be number 42 in the world.....if that!
You mean, he will do that much worse than Ferrer? I somehow doubt that.

Once djoko loses a bit of his flexibility...and half a step, he is going to drop fast.....

You will see. Winking

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by DECIMA on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:08 pm

ALLEZ

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:26 pm

The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by DECIMA on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:33 pm

FedererKing wrote:The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.
To be fair to you, you were the only one who said Djokovic could end up getting beaten.

I thought Djokovic would win the tournament unbeaten, but I still feel he'll win the tournament regardless of today.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:39 pm

Q. He got off to a good start, but you turned it round incredibly quickly. What allows you to turn a match around against a top-10 player like that?
ROGER FEDERER: Clearly was not the best start. Was a bad start. Was one of the worst starts I've had in years. No first serves, two double-faults, nothing coming from the baseline. So it was rough.

But thankfully I was able to pick it up. I mean, the surface does play slow here. If you get to see too many second serves, clearly you can crawl back into the match. You can get your chances from the baseline to find rhythm quickly.

It's hard to blast through an opponent here in London, which I think helps for me now against Berdych in this case because I can make the match athletic.

Yeah, as the match went on, I definitely started to play better, started to serve better. I think what I underestimated a little bit in some ways was that it was a first round. I think I was playing very well in practice. I had a very good idea with Severin and Stefan how I should play the match.

When I came in, I kind of forgot it was a first round. I do have to be a little bit careful as well at times. I was a bit sluggish coming in. I don't want to say too overconfident, but I thought it was going to be easier than that.
===========================
That;s why Djoko has been so successful here.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:59 pm

Back on my sofa with French cheese and wine.
I've got to make this night last as long as possible  chef
No hollow cheeks here, viva real food! Winking
To one of those rare special days! Bubbly

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by DECIMA on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:02 am

I'm going to watch the first semi, is there any idea who will face who there ?

Like is it Group A's winner vs Group B runner up ? Or vice versa.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:04 am

Anyway... Who cares about Boris!

He must have been really animated to rile you all like this. I didn't see any of it.

To me he is just funny.
But when I saw him from close up at Boodles this summer, his odious persona reeked a meter around him.

He is such a contrast to mild Edberg!


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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:05 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:I'm going to watch the first semi, is there any idea who will face who there ?

Like is it Group A's winner vs Group B runner up ? Or vice versa.

Watch both!
You only live once Kimmy Winking

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:34 am

Sip-sip, aaaah....
Now where was I?

Yes, the match!

Seriously, Nole was bad. I never felt he had a chance for one minute.
Fed was all over him. He demoralised him.

Fed's BH made all the difference , rock solid and unbelievable!

Only the very high ones he missed one or two.

I don't know what was better topspin or slice - just brilliant.

And then his footwork...gorgeous!

As I said the timing was incredible - he was hitting sweetspot almost all the time.

Apart from a few rallies, was not muscling the ball, just placing it. Another sign of playing clean- that's how one saves energy.

There was one totally crazy FHDTL. That was the shot of the night.

His BH chipped returns were also fantastic.

And some of those inside in mid-court FHs were really good. Funnily, he missed some relatively easy inside out ones. Actually, it was the same shot twice.

The guy has so much guile it's incredible.

It's one thing having hand to eye coordination. But another to have such tennis IQ.

He puts so much brain into his tennis - just like on Sunday vs Berdych, totally took legs from under Nole.

As much as it was beautiful and breath-taking it was clever.

These young players should watch him on tape for homework not just bash the ball all day.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:36 am

FedererKing wrote:The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.
Being a man who puts his money where his mouth is, you must've made a killing with the bookies! Winking

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by noleisthebest on Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:37 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:He has beaten Djoko 3 times this year....that's no coincidence. It's amazing when you think about it.

Djoko will never be called the best ever....cause at 34....Djoko will be number 42 in the world.....if that!
Yes, Fed made him look very plain and weak.
I think he hit only 2-3 good shots, two of those were returns.

Fed, on the other hand...it was a symphony in motion. Loved it!

Yep. His FH was excellent, finding angles I had not seen from him.....and his BH certainly improved as the match went on. His serve was impeccable.
beautiful to watch. A genius.

I am still awake! Yikes

Indeed!
I just don't know how he does it.

He must feel awesome when he's in that magical flow!
Lucky him!!!


I get a flying point now and then and live off it for days.Blush

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:20 am

noleisthebest wrote:Sip-sip, aaaah....
Now where was I?

Yes, the match!
.........
These young players should watch him on tape for homework not just bash the ball all day.
agree with all you say there......though he shanked more bh that you probably saw. he was just trying to hit harder I guess. he can't afford to play his usual bh v Djoko.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:32 am

noleisthebest wrote:
FedererKing wrote:The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.
Being a man who puts his money where his mouth is, you must've made a killing with the bookies! Winking

Sadly the odds on Federer beating Djokovic were not that high - and that ain't the bet I was having the other day Winking  Perhaps I should have put Federer on to claim the title, but Federer is not a safe bet at all.  Not worth the risk.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:33 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:
FedererKing wrote:The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.
To be fair to you, you were the only one who said Djokovic could end up getting beaten.

I thought Djokovic would win the tournament unbeaten, but I still feel he'll win the tournament regardless of today.  

I am also one of the only ones saying that Djokovic will not win 3 slams next year.  And I don't think he'll win 2.

I think Murray is a dark horse for this title.  Nadal has a chance.  Federer is a solid second.  But I agree Djokovic remains favourite.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:39 am

FedererKing wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:
FedererKing wrote:The impossible to beat Djokovic.....  beaten by a 34 year old.
To be fair to you, you were the only one who said Djokovic could end up getting beaten.

I thought Djokovic would win the tournament unbeaten, but I still feel he'll win the tournament regardless of today.  

I am also one of the only ones saying that Djokovic will not win 3 slams next year.  And I don't think he'll win 2.

wow...wow..not many of us here said that. he certainly can....but very unlikely.

I think Murray is a dark horse for this title.  Nadal has a chance.  Federer is a solid second.  But I agree Djokovic remains favourite.
Depends whether Djoko is injured or not.
Murray is very unliky I think.

Federer will drop form as we go along so I am not sure he can produce 2 matches like yesterday in a row.

Murray

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:56 am

Will you go as far to say he won't win 2, like me?  You were certainly wrong about him at this tournament - you thought he was invincible.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about this forum.  I was talking about generally across forums.  The hype has been nauseating.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:15 am

FedererKing wrote:Will you go as far to say he won't win 2, like me?  You were certainly wrong about him at this tournament - you thought he was invincible.
What will it mean? Whoever is right would simoply be the luckier one. he is certainly capable of winning 1, 2, 3, 4 or 0.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about this forum.  I was talking about generally across forums.  The hype has been nauseating.
One has to admit, he is a tough animal to beat. Only someone with as much guile and experience as federer can really trouble him.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:26 am

That isn't answering my question at all.  You aren't prepared to state something clearly because you have no conviction in what you are saying. You are afraid you'll be wrong.  I am not.  But I am more confident about my opinion that Djokovic will not win more than  1 slam next year.  Will you state the same?

As for your second comment, Murray and Wawrinka have beaten him this year, and Anderson blew it from 2 sets up. So your statement that only someone like Federer can beat him is inaccurate.  I will, of course, be back to remind you of it when he's beaten by  Murray or someone else.  Maybe even this tournament.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:37 am

Unlike you I know that convinctions can be wrong. You have been wrong all along with your peaking at 25....when frankly no-one near 25 has made London this year.....and the best players are between 28 to 34.

This is a simple fact you cannot digest. Winking

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:42 am

I go on the overwhelming evidence of human biology and the Open Era statistics.  Hard facts.  And those hard facts tell me that Djokovic is nearing the end in terms of Slam wins. 

Your opinion flies directly in the face of the facts. And when you fail, you blame something else—like other players "catching up". But all the facts to date say that the massive likelihood is that Djokovic will enter a steep decline from here on.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:49 am

yeah...yeah...keep closing your eyes and ears.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:00 am

Tenez wrote:yeah...yeah...keep closing your eyes and ears.

I had to use them when reading about human biology and the ATP statistics, which included the list of Slam winners by age.  I didn't need my ears though.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by DECIMA on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:07 am

OK I'll have conviction and challenge FK on this count: 
Djokovic will win atleast 2 slams next year.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:21 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:OK I'll have conviction and challenge FK on this count: 
Djokovic will win atleast 2 slams next year.

Tenez doesn't seem to be doing.

I think people are going to be shocked by his performance next year compared to this.  And he has an AWFUL lot of points to protect.  Extra pressure.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:45 am

FedererKing wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:OK I'll have conviction and challenge FK on this count: 
Djokovic will win atleast 2 slams next year.

Tenez doesn't seem to be doing.

I think people are going to be shocked by his performance next year compared to this.  And he has an AWFUL lot of points to protect.  Extra pressure.

Unfortunately I woudl be tempted to wish Djoko to win at least 2 slams to prove you wrong....which I really don't want to.


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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by legendkillar on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:56 am

I have to say I enjoy the rambunctious nature in FK's debating and the no balls, no glory approach to predictions, but I do ask if Djokovic is to not win more than 1 Slam next year, who will?

I know the rigid formula is based on age, but no-one else in the field of a young age is showing promising results that they are coming up to the mark to challenge for Slams. Look at the QF's of the Masters this year:

IW - Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Lopez, Berdych, Raonic, Tomic
Miami - Djokovic, Murray, Berdych, Isner, Ferrer, Nishikori, Thiem, Monaco
MC - Djokovic, Berdych, Monfils, Nadal, Cillic, Ferrer, Raonic, Dimitrov
Madrid - Murray, Nadal, Nishikori, Berdych, Raonic, Dimitrov, Ferrer, Isner
Rome - Djokovic, Federer,  Ferrer, Wawrinka, Berdych, Nadal, Nishikori, Goffin
Montreal - Murray, Djokovic, Chardy, Nishikori, Nadal, Isner, Gulbis, Tsonga
Cincinnati - Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Dolgopolov, Berdych, Gasquet, Lopez, Wawrinka
Shanghai - Djokovic, Tsonga, Murray, Nadal, Tomic, Berdych, Wawrinka, Anderson
Paris - Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer, Wawrinka, Nadal, Isner, Gasquet, Berdych

I always think that progress at the Masters is a good feeder into Slam success. Looking at that, only Thiem really is what I'd call a youngster. What a dearth of upcoming talent. The field shows no signs of catching up, but we expect a drop off from Djokovic? Hard to imagine.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:03 pm

But my point LK is that Djoko 2010 or 11 woudl have no chance versus Djoko 2015....so we can't expect today's youngsters to do much better.

The game has got much more professional and 4 years experience (from age 23 to 27) of hitting the ball versus the top players cannot simply be ignored. It's unvaluable experience. There is no better training than getting exposure against the top players.

Look at Djoko....despite being 28 he still hasn't figured out how to beat Federer consistently. he only relies on Fed tiring. That's his sole strategy.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:12 pm

Very surprised to see they put Nadal/Murray in the afternoon instead of evening. Well done!

Now I am one who has predicted (correctly btw) more than anyone here when it makes sense.....and I predict that Murray will beat Nadal this afternoon in 2 sets.


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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by legendkillar on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:13 pm

And I agree on the experience, but at the same time the habit of winning matches is something today's youngsters are missing that. Running into a 1st round Slam match against Djokovic/Federer/Murray does them no good.

In terms of Djokovic 11 vs Djokovic 15, I still think the Djokovic 11 is vastly under-rated. The real significant difference is the serve and how tight and solid it is now and also the energy economy. I feel though the Djokovic of 11 is much more mentally stronger than the 15 version.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:24 pm

legendkillar wrote:And I agree on the experience, but at the same time the habit of winning matches is something today's youngsters are missing that. Running into a 1st round Slam match against Djokovic/Federer/Murray does them no good.

In terms of Djokovic 11 vs Djokovic 15, I still think the Djokovic 11 is vastly under-rated. The real significant difference is the serve and how tight and solid it is now and also the energy economy. I feel though the Djokovic of 11 is much more mentally stronger than the 15 version.

Djoko's mouvement is much better which is crucial in th eway he plays all his shots. Meaning his returns are also much better than in 2011.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:36 pm

Tenez wrote:
FedererKing wrote:
DONALD TRUMP wrote:OK I'll have conviction and challenge FK on this count: 
Djokovic will win atleast 2 slams next year.

Tenez doesn't seem to be doing.

I think people are going to be shocked by his performance next year compared to this.  And he has an AWFUL lot of points to protect.  Extra pressure.

Unfortunately I woudl be tempted to wish Djoko to win at least 2 slams to prove you wrong....which I really don't want to.

 Wish away; science isn't going anywhere Winking  Anyway, 2 slams is very doable so it's not like I am saying it's unlikely.  Three is unlikely.  I just don't think he'll make 2.  I think the extra pressure and age and the time are all right now for things to change.

@nole

I'd like to believe Federer has a swan song - and maybe he will, but I'd say it's time for a new winner.  I wouldn't be at all surprised.  I also think Nadal might win the French Open.  Really hope not haha.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:56 pm

I think he has a good chance to win the AO...but no guarantee and a good chance to win the FO and USO. I doubt he will win Wimby again.

So out of those 3 he might win one or 2. I certainly woudl be very surprised if he were to win none, 3 or the 4 of them.

So I'd say it is most likely one or 2.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:23 pm

I notice that noone is predicting the Murray/nadal match......

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:29 pm

Murray will win in 2, I think.  Nadal plays a style that he can no longer sustain like he used to - and Murray can.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Tenez on Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:30 pm

Nadal's average time between serves 32s! How on earth can this still be allowed?

Murray seems injured. He broke straight away and then can't move since.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

Post by Daniel on Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:33 pm

I don't see any injury....

Murray is doing fine.  He is a bad match up for the declined Nadal.

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Re: ATP Tour Final - The Draw

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