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ATP Masters 1000: Paris

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:22 am

Tenez wrote:I don;t think Stan choked that set at 5/4 serving for the match. he got just too excited. he was at the net to put the ball away....just got the net...it's not like he was scared to hit through and stayed back like nadal did in that set point he had.

But I think getting over excited (heavy breathing, flooded by emotions that the end is almost touchable) is a classic choking symptom, for the attacker.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by AceofDeath on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:24 am

Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match Cool

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:27 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:Stan is a man in love, walking and playing on air. love

Nole-Stan tomorrow will be a cracker!

Stan will be knackered. It's 1.40 am there...interview, adrenaline, tiredness...he is not going to sleep before 5am...! Poor scheduling!

Yes, that's a shame.
At least it didn't go to three sets, though if it did, Nadal would've probably wormed his way out as usual.

Just a short warm-up practice after lunch. I assume they will play the 2nd SF.
And then there also the wings of love. cupid

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:28 am

AceofDeath wrote:Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match Cool

Yes, Stanovic matches rarely fail to deliver!

In some way they are the new Fedal.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:30 am

Tenez wrote:The level of tennis was much bettter in that 1st set....dropped afterwards as one woudl expect as it was so physical.

I can imagine.
I caught a few superb points in the second set, too. The smoothness and quality of ball-striking and fast pace from both (on the baseline!) was incredible.
Stan was particularly impressive.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:59 am

AceofDeath wrote:Yep Tenez he knows he doesn't have very long in the sport too and he isnt as fast as he was that will take its toll on him.

Really glad we have another Stanovic match Cool
...or the opposition is hitting harder.

DId yuo see the first set? Nadal played pretty well....still came second.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:05 am

My few bob...

Except for Nishi, all top 8 have played some excellent tennis last two weeks.

If Nishi is injured, he should withdraw from WTF and give a chance to Richie.

I genuinely think all 8 can make it to the semifinal this year.
This may be the highest quality WTF we have had in London.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:18 am

I agree they are all playing well except Djoko who dropped a notch.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:32 am

He only appears to have dropped form (- last night he was moving like wind, even I could not believe my eyes!),  same as Fed in Shanghai - that tiny extra lack of match playing confidence after a break can make it or break it depending on the opponent.
Esp on these slow surfaces.

Due to his safer style of play those breaks do affect Nole as much as Fed. 

Stan will stretch him big time today. It's Paris! Winking

On this court Stan is the only one who can beat Nole.

It should be a great match.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by luvsports! on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:34 am

Djoko will eat Stan's kidneys.
He will muller yogurt him, he always does in bo3.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:37 am

What makes you say that?

Stan has played much better than Nole so far.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by luvsports! on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:41 am

Look at their matches in bo3.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:13 pm

I had a quick look.
They haven't played many since 2013/14.
Mainly WTF where Stan was debuting in 2013 and last year only made an effort against Fed in that epic SF match.
My prediction was based on how they played here in Bercy, not the stats.

I even mentioned early on this thread that Stan should make the most of these courts and was right.

So long as he was able to recover a bit...it was a long and very late match. That's the only big minus for him. Nole's match against Berd also took a lot out of him but he will have has a good night sleep and advantage in recovery.

Same goes for poor Ferrer.
When I saw him play Murray in RG I could not believe how physically superior Murray was/has become.
Ferrer was able to play his game as always but Murray's muscle made him look like a little kid.
I felt sorry for him.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by luvsports! on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:19 pm

Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:56 pm

I watched the second set. Ferrer certainly lacks the firepower against someone who can run so much.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:22 pm

Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:22 pm

Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:26 pm

Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!
Why do you say that?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:30 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

I didn't watch the match so can't comment.
Was it the usual muscling percentage CC tennis?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:33 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!
Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:35 pm

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!
Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

The worst is you are paying to watch and listen to it! Laugh

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:53 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Nothing hurts more, in tennis matter, than the bigging up of the Wimby 2008 travesty final!
Why do you say that?

Cause sky is just making a big thing about it now. They skipped the 5 previous Wimby finals Fed won to mention how 2008 was the greatest.

The worst is you are paying to watch and listen to it! Laugh
I am not thankfully. Just use livestream.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Tenez wrote:
I am not thankfully. Just use livestream.
That's a relief!

Yes, the brainwashing of 2008 Wimbledon final has always been irritating.
And as you know I am annoyed with Federer for playing along media always praising Nadal.

Even last week or so he said how Nadal is the best player he's ever faced.

Now if he can say that, then what to expect from parrots on Sky?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:06 pm

luvsports! wrote:Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak
LS, what do you make of the difference between their recent matches in Bo5 and Bo3?  Surely you are not suggesting that Nole cannot keep up with Stan over five sets?

To me, their recent slam matches indicate that Stan is able to play with Nole on just about even terms when he puts his mind to it.  I just suspect he finds it more difficult to focus on every match week-in and week-out.  But if he is dialed in today, I see no reason why he could not give Nole trouble.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:48 pm

Stan is definitely very tired.
Even if he wins today on adrenaline, he'll have nothing left tomorrow.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:03 pm

summerblues wrote:
luvsports! wrote:Paris '13: 6-1 6-4 Novak
WTF '13: 6-3 6-3 Novak
Wtf '14: 6-3 6-0 Novak
Cincy '15: 6-4 6-1 Novak
LS, what do you make of the difference between their recent matches in Bo5 and Bo3?  Surely you are not suggesting that Nole cannot keep up with Stan over five sets?

To me, their recent slam matches indicate that Stan is able to play with Nole on just about even terms when he puts his mind to it.  I just suspect he finds it more difficult to focus on every match week-in and week-out.  But if he is dialed in today, I see no reason why he could not give Nole trouble.
I see what you mean but it;s not as clear cut.

Federer who has a poor 5 setter record was the only one who coudl beat nadal in the 5th set (did at Miami 05 and Wimby 2007). This I think can be explained by the pace at which Nadal and Djoko have to retrieve the ball. the harder the ball is hit, the more draining it is to get to that ball, and if they get tired, the ball comes back shorter and it s easier to angle and pace up....making it even harder for the retriever. I think this is what happened to Djoko when Stan beat him for the first time in the 5th set AO14 or even in Paris. It's much more draining to get to a ball at full speed (v Stan) than just a tiny bit less than full speed (v Nadal for instance). What I am saying is that running at let's say 30kmh is much more consuming than running at 27kmh. 5 sets of having to contain Soderling or Stan is not the same 5 sets of containing a less powerful player.

Stan hasn't shown up. really exhausted he seems.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Daniel on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:31 pm

luvsports! wrote:Djoko will eat Stan's kidneys.
He will muller yogurt him, he always does in bo3.

I wouldn't bank on that.  I think people are grossly overestimating how hard it is to continually win matches. Wawrinka looks like levelling this 1-1 and has every chance of winning.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:42 pm

It's really weird that a player as talented as Stan can have such a poorer record than someone like Djoko, whose main merit is hard working and professionalism....cause shots for shots, it's not close.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Daniel on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:51 pm

I expect Murray to beat Djokovic, should Wawrinka lose this.  I think he has the form at the minute and he has the defensive skills to do what Nadal and Djokovic do... put ball back endlessly.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:53 pm

I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:05 pm

The match fizzled out after the second set Sad

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:12 pm

the fitter won....again.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Daniel on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:14 pm

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Murray has beaten a peak Djokovic before, you know...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:19 pm

FedererKing wrote:
Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.

Murray has beaten a peak Djokovic before, you know...
No. I am actually not aware. When was that?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by luvsports! on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:00 am

Well he beat him this year at Montreal. Nole wasn;t at his best but it was still during his peak that is this year.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:54 am

Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.
Of course, the fitter player always wins, except when they don't, like the French Open final this year. Or is that the exception that proves the rule? Of course that was just a best of 5 set match on clay, so not such a stern test of fitness compared to today's marathon match....

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:04 am

As LS points out, Stan's actually fares better in BO5 against Novak, having won 2 of the last 3 (including 9-7 in the fifth at the Oz Open), while he hasn't won a BO3 since 2006 and has barely taken taken a set in that format since then. Where does that leave your fitness is everything theory? Something doesn't quite add up if you ask me.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:15 am

In a similar vein, Fed has won his last 5 matches against Murray. Applying your theory, does that mean that Fed is simply the fitter player? Should we be telling him to ease up in the gym to give Murray a sporting chance? Or is this just another exception that absolutely definitely proves the rule?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Aut0Gr4ph on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:08 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Yes, I noticed that too! Sickening how Murray used his legs to employ an expansive, all court game. To be fair, he did show some good touch at the net, but only because of his cheap exploitation of depth perception. If you poked out one of his eyes, he would have probably lost 6-1, 6-1.

I didn't watch the match so can't comment.
Was it the usual muscling percentage CC tennis?
To my untrained eye, he seemed to be hitting quite a few BHDTL shots, but then he has a two-hander, so they don't really count, obviously.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Daniel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:51 am

luvsports! wrote:Well he beat him this year at Montreal. Nole wasn;t at his best but it was still during his peak that is this year.

And his peak was 2011 anyway, but it doesn't matter.  Tenez seems to wish away facts that are inconvenient and replace them with ones that support what he wants to be true - rather than what IS.  Suddenly, Djokovic is an unbeatable superhuman.  And let's not forget that Djokovic and his impossible-to-beat backhand were taken out by Wawrinka - not anywhere near as good as peak Federer.

Whether you like it or not Tenez, Wawrinka has ripped through quite a lot of your beliefs this year.  He's taken out your Skynet with a one handed backhand on the slowest most physically demanding surface - something you assured me was not even possible. Well, I disagreed and even put 100 quid on it.

Do not be surprised to see Murray triumph in the final.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by Tenez on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:01 am

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:
Tenez wrote:I doubt Murray has the shots to trouble a poor form Djoko.
Of course, the fitter player always wins, except when they don't, like the French Open final this year. Or is that the exception that proves the rule? Of course that was just a best of 5 set match on clay, so not such a stern test of fitness compared to today's marathon match....
Yes it happens that the shot maker once every 2 years beats the fitter player. It may have helped though that the fitter player had just had a gruelling match v Murray. So maybe he was not the fitter player that day.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:19 pm

Murray's face after that long rally in the second point of the match: Laugh
"Bloody hell, what have I got myself into here..."

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:37 pm

After a long rally Murray tries to get his 30 seconds & catch breath "legally" by walking to umpire complaining about some door in the ceiling casting shadows...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by AceofDeath on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:07 pm

Good to see Novak not just waiting for errors today zen

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by AceofDeath on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:08 pm

Backhand to backhand - only 1 winner Applause

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:16 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Good to see Novak not just waiting for errors today zen

His shots are much closer to the lines and with lower net clearance, though.
I am actually enjoying this match.

Murray played one or two proper points when he finished with a good volley and that's about it.
Roger he ain't and never will be.

By those muscles he lives (against almost everyone on the tour) and dies (against Nole and Fed or anyone else that can make him run on the day).

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:24 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Backhand to backhand - only 1 winner Applause

I find it interesting that Djokovic is now making more use and benefit of his BH slice than Murray.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:27 pm

The only "thing" missing in this match is Stan.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by AceofDeath on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:47 pm

NOleisthebest

How many top 10 wins Nole had this year now? wizard

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

Post by ... on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:56 pm

Wrong person to ask I'm afraid. It's all in the eye with me.

But I remember when he won it the first time beating Monfils. He was wild in his celebrations back in those days. Winking


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: Paris

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