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ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:44 pm

FedererKing wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
Yes, I noticed both, too.

It's called old age, I keep telling you smiley  He's 34 now, not 24.  Inconsistency is a huge part of decline.

Yes, noone here is saying people get younger with age.
Inconsistency in tennis comes from the of lack of talent and talent does not age.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Daniel on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:02 am

noleisthebest wrote:
FedererKing wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
Yes, I noticed both, too.

It's called old age, I keep telling you smiley  He's 34 now, not 24.  Inconsistency is a huge part of decline.

Yes, noone here is saying people get younger with age.
Inconsistency in tennis comes from the of lack of talent and talent does not age.

Hand eye coordination (and all body coordination) and reflex speed does.  So do a lot of things.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:26 am

PASSED MY FECKING DRIVING TEST WAHOOOOO
THOUGHT I'D FAILED!
CELEBRATE GOOD TIMES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWLIgjB9gGw

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Autumnleaf on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:39 am

Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
He was apparently taped at the back, some have noticed during the serving motion. I haven't seen it personally and if so, hope, it's nothing serious. Certainly the serve was very much off yesterday.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:35 am

FedererKing wrote:
Hand eye coordination (and all body coordination) and reflex speed does.  So do a lot of things.
Hand to eye coordination does not age.

Reflex speed does but much later than you suggest and also very slowly and gradually.
After all, Fed's SABRE and his exquisite s&volleying tennis from this year are a proof noone can deny.

They are the ultimate test of both hand to eye coordination, foot-speed and especially reflexes.

You are confusing it all with fitness.

Nestor is 42, Zimonjic 39, Paes 42...all superb top doubles players relying exclusively on their exquisite volleying skills.

We have a pink lipstick wearing 90 year old lady in our club who is as sharp as many youngsters with her hands. She even runs for the ball! Rose

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:43 am

Autumnleaf wrote:
Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
He was apparently taped at the back, some have noticed during the serving motion. I haven't seen it personally and if so, hope, it's nothing serious. Certainly the serve was very much off yesterday.

Let's hope not.

We need's Truffin's Fed following brigade updates!

Truffin, where are you?

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:56 am

Autumnleaf wrote:
Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
He was apparently taped at the back, some have noticed during the serving motion. I haven't seen it personally and if so, hope, it's nothing serious. Certainly the serve was very much off yesterday.

Interesting. This back will always be there or thereabout....Especially in Winter I guess.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by legendkillar on Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:53 am

Tenez wrote:
legendkillar wrote:I don't think it's a case of not wanting to suspect Ten, I think it's more of a headache and ballache to digest the process (unless you are into doping/medicine advancements). I don't deny it's not in sport, just I don't want to argue what the facts and assumptions are. I come from a pharmaceutical and healthcare background and nothing disheartens me more when people make a lot of inaccurate claims about the side effects of drugs (not saying here on OTF) but on other forums and people in general. Just to try and unpick on so many levels how they are incorrect and explain the realities is a discussion I have had one too many times. In a way similar to your improvement discussion. I can't say I would've shown the same patience.
 
I just turn away tbh. I have seen much corruption, hate, cheating, lying just all manner of low morals by society. It doesn't do a lot to enlighten the soul. So what is the alternative? I literally immerse myself in nature and try and capture as much beauty in the world as possible. It's less depressing Winking

I actually like to look at the dark sides of things. I actually believe it is the only way to free ourselves from it. If you ignore them, they come back stronger and more harmful. If people coudl see the dark side of the world, they would not feed those princes of darkness which are in effect ruling the world.

Not being too theoritical here, just look at your organisation for which you work.....the nastiest ones go top of the pyramid quicker than good guys.....in 95% of cases. In politics, same thing, politicians have to please the lobbies and not the people who elect them to have the media behind them and by this process it's the most rotten that get elected.

If people were more in touch with the dark forces they woudl not be fooled by them.

Look at the draw rigging case. I know you don;t believe in it but the point is the day this ESPN team highlighted the ridiculous high prob of draw rigging (made it conscious to the mass) then we started to have first seed have tougher draws and Nadal and Djoko finally being in the same draw in slams. If people were not rising concern about those ridiculous long rallies, the ITF would have been less reluctant to improve anti-doping, etc....

That's why we need to keep an eye constantly on the motives and ways of Cheating...at all levels.  

Sadly the dark side of things are a necessary evil, not one I agree with, but it exists everywhere. I know I have made decisions that haven't been the most ethical or morally correct, but the outcome was a greater good kind of thing and even though the end result benefitted more than what a more ethical or morally correct process, it was something that didn't sit entirely comfortable with me.

In relation to the draw rigging, it's more a case of chance. The outcome solely relies on the desired player/s coming through to the anticipated destiny. Just look at the AO14. I don't think anyone gave Stan a prayer and I am sure there were those who would've preferred a Nadal victory that day and it didn't happen! When we talk draw rigging, yes the big 4 in a sense are kept apart, but spanners in the works do occur.

Improvements cost money. In my current profession it is sad when everything is effected by it. We are so behind the curve because of this thing called money. I read somewhere last week that the accumulative world debt is £233 trillion!! Who owns that??

It's a mad world sadly.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:35 pm

Regarding the draw, you might claim that the Djoko/Fed odds being in the same draw (1 in a 5000) be just a piece of luck.....you however cannot deny that the USO first seeds not having to play a top 33 to 64 for 10 years (a one in a million chance)...also a piece of luck....woudl you?

What I like about debts is that we borrow from institutions who have not got themselves that money. ...yes we are bound to give it back. How smart is that!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:51 pm

The old saying: Where there is a will, there is a way" could be changed to: "Where there is money, there is a way".
In short: Just do it!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:02 pm

Tenez wrote:Regarding the draw, you might claim that the Djoko/Fed odds being in the same draw (1 in a 5000) be just a piece of luck.....you however cannot deny that the USO first seeds not having to play a top 33 to 64 for 10 years (a one in a million chance)...also a piece of luck....woudl you?
What I like about debts is that we borrow from institutions who have not got themselves that money. ...yes we are bound to give it back. How smart is that!
Yes, banking world is crazier and more creative than we can imagine, especially at the very top.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:11 pm

Good to see Richie continue in his winning ways.

He seems such a modest, unassuming soul.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:14 pm

A tiny bit surprised to see Young and Sock come out that quarter.
In theory, Sock could be a regular top 10 player in 2-3 years, but will he?

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:46 pm

legendkillar wrote:
Sadly the dark side of things are a necessary evil, not one I agree with, but it exists everywhere. I know I have made decisions that haven't been the most ethical or morally correct, but the outcome was a greater good kind of thing and even though the end result benefitted more than what a more ethical or morally correct process, it was something that didn't sit entirely comfortable with me.

In relation to the draw rigging, it's more a case of chance. The outcome solely relies on the desired player/s coming through to the anticipated destiny. Just look at the AO14. I don't think anyone gave Stan a prayer and I am sure there were those who would've preferred a Nadal victory that day and it didn't happen! When we talk draw rigging, yes the big 4 in a sense are kept apart, but spanners in the works do occur.

Improvements cost money. In my current profession it is sad when everything is effected by it. We are so behind the curve because of this thing called money. I read somewhere last week that the accumulative world debt is £233 trillion!! Who owns that??

It's a mad world sadly.

I think that's part of the problem: the conscience management.
Inability and unwillingness to see ourselves as bad, always needing to justify and minimise our mistakes...so long as we are not as bad as  (fill out the gap with your favourite historical villain), it doesn't matter we aren't as good as Jesus.

In the meantime, our time is ticking out..

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Part of me believes Cilic can beat Nadal tonight,  just not sure how.
It's that final push across the finish line that bothers me.

On the other hand, when if not now?

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:04 pm

yes I think Cilic will do it cause the shots are going to be too fast for nadal.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:09 pm

Not very smart to have such a late schedule.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Tenez wrote:yes I think Cilic will do it cause the shots are going to be too fast for nadal.

Having said that Cilic is well capable of choking.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:19 pm

30/0 Nadal...but could have easily been 0/30.


Commentators saying rightly that rallies are shorter nowadays.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:25 pm

And Cilic is in no mood to mess around.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:25 pm

And Cilic is in no mood to mess around.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Tenez wrote:30/0 Nadal...but could have easily been 0/30.

Commentators saying rightly that rallies are shorter nowadays.

And with it the quality of tennis better, noticed that most obviously during the last Djokovic-Murray match.

Improving the trade-off between risk and rallying. About time!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:35 pm

One of the trademarks of this modern baseline junk percentage rallying tennis is this "rhythm" and wheezing/grunting that goes with it.
I CAN'T STAND IT!!!! Angry Grr

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:36 pm

noleisthebest wrote:.....

Improving the trade-off between risk and rallying. About time!
Undeniably....Is anybody else seeing that?

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:38 pm

Good to see Cilic confident.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:41 pm

Goodall and Robbie commenting on today's strings enabling players all these crazy angles now, and how they, too would've been different players with them.


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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:44 pm

Funny to see Nadal moonball even the easiest mid-court putaway CC FH.
Great net player, indeed.

I wonder what his definition of risk would be.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:06 pm

Cilic has improved his BH.
Keeping a cool head and playing within himself.
No panic.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:12 pm

Nadal is having to work very hard for his points as Cilic is taking precious time away from him. Looks completely weaponless.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:16 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Cilic has improved his BH.
Keeping a cool head and playing within himself.
No panic.

Yes . Shame he was not 100% in that USO final. he is certainly back to some good level.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:26 pm

Amazing how after that break back in the second set at 2:1, Cilic's energy levels dropped so slightly and that was enough for Nadal to reel him in.

Now at the end of the third just juicing him with ease...

He never wins by a knockout, only a continual knockdown of his groggy, dazed and babboozled opponents.

I am dizzy just watching it... Seeing Double

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:19 pm

After a "suitable rest" back at watching...and what a sight for sore eyes....and ears...

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:31 pm

Nothing wrong with Fed's footwork, just the odd ball mistimed.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:14 pm

Something very wrong actually......I have been watching the second and now 3rd set and clearly his back is playing up.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:23 pm

I like Goffn. he reminds me a friend of mine.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:28 pm

well looks like his back has warmed up

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:32 pm

Tenez wrote:Something very wrong actually......I have been watching the second and now 3rd set and clearly his back is playing up.
I thought he just relaxed a bit in the second set...he wants to win but not desperate...and he can't play and win against Goffin half-baked.

There have been some gorgeous shots.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Daniel on Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:29 am

Nadal will duck Federer again.  I think Nadal is as obsessed with h2h as his fans.  Saying that, Federer has a huge mismatch and psychologal issue when it comes to Nadal, and these days, despite Nadal's lack of form, I'd still put him favourite against 34 year old Fed.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by truffin1 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:33 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Autumnleaf wrote:
Tenez wrote:Something wrong with Fed....his timing is really off. His mouvement is poor.
He was apparently taped at the back, some have noticed during the serving motion. I haven't seen it personally and if so, hope, it's nothing serious. Certainly the serve was very much off yesterday.

Let's hope not.

We need's Truffin's Fed following brigade updates!

Truffin, where are you?



You called?

I went through the fan threads.  Fed had a sore neck - they say it's the "slept in a bad position" kind and was affecting his serve.  I went through the Kohl match and you can see fed grabbing at and massaging his neck several times.    No one mentions back so hopefully it's just a neck strain.  He seemed okay once warmed up today.


Okay- changing my tune- reports now being posted on today's match thread that fed has indeed tweaked his back.  Couple of real insiders says its flared up.

Typical of Feds luck when nadal finally is ready to show up and play him.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:25 am

truffin1 wrote:
You called?

I went through the fan threads.  Fed had a sore neck - they say it's the "slept in a bad position" kind and was affecting his serve.  I went through the Kohl match and you can see fed grabbing at and massaging his neck several times.    No one mentions back so hopefully it's just a neck strain.  He seemed okay once warmed up today.


Okay- changing my tune- reports now being posted on today's match thread that fed has indeed tweaked his back.  Couple of real insiders says its flared up.

Typical of Feds luck when nadal finally is ready to show up and play him.
Thanks, Truffin.

I saw most of his two matches in Basel and he hasn't been smooth,  I thought it was rustiness.
Especially in his first match when he looked quite slow and heavy compared to his usual light-footed self.

Yesterday, his footwork in the first set looked excellent, but the timing was off esp on FH now and then, so could be the back....
Goffin was retrieving a lot of balls.
I didn't see how he got broken in the second set but watched from 2:4 down.
There was one badly mistimed overhead...looked like the whole universe moved a fraction off balance, it was that unusual...
He looked quite plain, and when he looks plain then something must be wrong.

Then in the third set, he was back to his furious determined self and ran away with it.

I don't think Sock will be any problem...look forward to the final!

Keep us posted! Cheers

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:39 am

truffin1 wrote:...
Typical of Feds luck when nadal finally is ready to show up and play him.
Exactly. The scheduling is pretty poor too.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:53 am

Just saw Radwanska beat Muguruza.
Retrieving, soul-destroying, scrapping horror tennis of the worst kind.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:05 pm

really? Radwanska is not powerful but place the ball very well. I quite like her tennis.

That's what I call real ladies tennis....less bashing more placing the ball. However against someone who hammers teh ball...of course she is going to retrieve.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:16 pm

we just saw an example of nadal's average volleying skills.

the crowd still very much behind nadal.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:22 pm

Interesting change of tactics from nadal. Knowing Gasquet hasn't got the most powerful shots he returns much far back knowing he can send those loopy shots on his BH...safely. Forcing those long rallies.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:22 pm

Breaks back.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:38 pm

And the set.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:46 pm

Tenez wrote:really? Radwanska is not powerful but place the ball very well. I quite like her tennis.

That's what I call real ladies tennis....less bashing more placing the ball. However against someone who hammers teh ball...of course she is going to retrieve.

Just because it's not physical doesn't mean it's good... for me at least. She is a pusher and a retriever.
There are smaller women than her who play tennis properly & with plenty of heart.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:47 pm

1mm Hawkeye against Gasquet on a set point....classic Nadal!

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:28 pm

2 back to back DFs serving for the set, now that's what I call pathetic.

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Re: ATP 500/250: Basel & Valencia

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