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ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:23 am

Tenez wrote:
noleisthebest wrote:
Tenez wrote:
It's a luxury I wish I had....though I can't complain....I have spent many days studying ranking, counting rallies of numerous matches over numerous years while measuring pace, keeping record of ground covered by players, etc....etc.....

I am actually one, if not the worst tennis nerd out there. I should be hired by the best tennis programs.

Have you had a Eureka moment?
yep. I did actually. ....when I suspected Nadal's taking time was due to recovery and not OCD. I remembered Nadal losing that 5 setter in Miami 05 and thought this match will show whether Nadal was taking time there or not.....and obviously he did not. Then the following matches had to show he was taking extra time....and guess what? they did. That proved that Toni deliberately took the decision to slow down the routine between point after Nadal lost 6 games in a row in that 5th set in Miami 05. 

I knew from the beginning Nadal's time taking was necessary condition to play his gruelling game and proved it!  Cheers

That was some serious Eureka thinking back then.

You kicked Nadal's bottles straight away! Winking

I knew nothing about doping and time taking, but he was so obvious anyway.
It was the others that took me longer to see...





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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:35 am

It was easy to think the purpose of time taking was to upset the opponent and break his rhythm....And I did at first, but though that was an additional benefit, it certainly was not the main purpose. 

I could remember Nadal being very exhausted and breathless after a point...but bizarrely, 30s later, he had enough recovery to start another grueling rally.

Then Djoko and Murray followed up.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:38 am

Tenez wrote:I have not seen Tsonga play recently.....but I know he has often, almost always struggled v Nadal.....so I am not hoping for much.

Tsonga was good yesterday, but Nadal is back to his patience-testing best.

Do you remember how he destroyed him in that AO 2008 SF?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:48 am

Tenez wrote:It was easy to think the purpose of time taking was to upset the opponent and break his rhythm....And I did at first, but though that was an additional benefit, it certainly was not the main purpose. 

I could remember Nadal being very exhausted and breathless after a point...but bizarrely, 30s later, he had enough recovery to start another grueling rally.

Then Djoko and Murray followed up.

It was hard for me to swallow that reality mentally. Then I tested it on a tennis court and satisfied the mind straight away.
The heart kicked and screamed for some time, though... Winking

What I don't understand is people refusing to see it, especially those who play. The blindness and refusal even to want to question it. THAT is worrying.




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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:59 am

Nadal is playing very well....very alert, really powerful, timing the ball and moving well.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:02 am

Tenez wrote:Nadal is playing very well....very alert, really powerful, timing the ball and moving well.
Yes, very matured feel for the game and shot selection...I am impressed with his serving.
Disappointing volleying from Tsonga.
No need to panic this early in a match!


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:04 am

I also noticed that after a long time, he is dripping with sweat again.
There was NONE of it in Beijing and up to now.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:07 am

Tenez wrote:Nadal is playing very well....very alert, really powerful, timing the ball and moving well.
You should've seen Murray yesterday!!!!

I was almost shocked, he had the same power as Berd, but so much better precision due to his superior moving.
It is going to be a really good match between him and Nole.


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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:11 am

Nadal is not playing well, he missed a smash in that game...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:14 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:Nadal is not playing well, he missed a smash in that game...
Tsonga missed one before that, too.

What do you think of his ball-striking, can you see the difference?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:30 am

Nadal's coach (Roig) bringing Nadal new shoes...and he changing them though there seems to be nothing wrong with the original pair...

My conspiracy brain is buzzing! Big Grin

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:34 am

Beautiful close up of crescent Moon on tennis TV.

Following tennis has never been such fun. Even Koening and Lester/Goodall? (never know who's who!) have been providing some meaningful commentating!

They are evolving, too Winking

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:35 am

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal's coach (Roig) bringing Nadal new shoes...and he changing them though there seems to be nothing wrong with the original pair...

My conspiracy brain is buzzing! Big Grin
Don't worry, I'm sure Tenez will come up with something !

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:36 am

Nadal smashing like Djokovic.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:50 am

DONALD TRUMP wrote:Nadal smashing like Djokovic.

Now that's a Donald Duck comment...
You need to be bolder!

That aside, Nadal  burning the air with his sizzling groundstrokes...CC ones though, but long and deadly.
Mixed up with moon-balls, it's definitely a level up from his previous best.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:20 am

OK fine NITB that save from 0-40 was quite good...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:54 am

Tsonga breaks and will serve for the match!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:01 pm

ALLEZ JO!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:01 pm

Great play from Tsonga, deserved it at the end

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:01 pm

ALLEZ JO!!!!diva

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by AceofDeath on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:03 pm

Devastating if your name is Amritia Sad

Well done on your runner up result Jo.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:03 pm

Great win for Big-Heart Jo! Applause

He could have easily lost, but held his nerve and was lucky as well.
So happy for him!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:14 pm

Nadal doing well from playing closer to base-line, but not comortable there yet as he often doesn't get enough time.
But when he does - he makes the most of it.
So much better than in the exclusive moon-balling past.

His progress is quicker than I expected.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nadal doing well from playing closer to base-line, but not comortable there yet as he often doesn't get enough time.
But when he does - he makes the most of it.
So much better than in the exclusive moon-balling past.

His progress is quicker than I expected.
He played well today actually, let's see how he does in Basel.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:33 pm

Djoko dismantling Murray.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:56 pm

Just started watching, surprised by the score!
6:1 -demolition!

Especially having seen Murray play so well yesterday.

Just saw one shot slo-mo, amazing low net clearance from Nole.

On top, making Murray run left and right, that is really amazing, like a puppet on a string.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:23 pm

Djokovic can reach levels that Murray can't ever. Murray didn't play bad, Djokovic was far too ahead of him in every single dept of the game.

Served perfect, returned perfect.. sliced perfect, volleyed perfect..Fh/bh.. all perfect.. just one of the most clean matches from Djokovic..

Only a lights-out Tsonga can beat him.. not a speck less would suffice.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by AceofDeath on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:30 pm

Unreal consistency.

There is more chance of Ferrer leading the H2H on Federer than there is of Tsonga of winning the final (if Novak is fit).

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:35 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Djokovic can reach levels that Murray can't ever. Murray didn't play bad, Djokovic was far too ahead of him in every single dept of the game.
Only a lights-out Tsonga can beat him.. not a speck less would suffice.

I didn't see the first set, but from the second set, Murray was hitting the ball as well as yesterday, the only difference - he was not playing a slow moving target, Berdych.

His fast, hard-hit shots were safer than confident Nole's and that's what made the difference.

I'd love to have seen the first few games to see who played riskier.

I am assuming that as a result of 1set, Nole got relaxed and started going for the lines and down the line (more?)in the 2nd set, at the same time, Murray got demoralised and served poorly.

But all in all, there was some very good tennis, not many long rallies. The number of shots is now replaced with higher intensity of striking the ball.

So, this match was not as ugly as their old ones at all!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:38 pm

AceofDeath wrote:Unreal consistency.

There is more chance of Ferrer leading the H2H on Federer than there is of Tsonga of winning the final (if Novak is fit).
Yes, and there is even room from improvement.
How anyone can say 2011 Nole was better is beyond me!
I don't really know who has improved more him or Murray...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:49 pm

See this is where you misconstrue people's views. That is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally Nole choked it vs Stan. Did he do that in '11? 

I merely say he doesn't hit the bhdtl nearly as well or as often. 

The rest of his game has improved. I've always said that.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:06 pm

luvsports! wrote:See this is where you misconstrue people's views. That is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally Nole choked it vs Stan. Did he do that in '11? 

I merely say he doesn't hit the bhdtl nearly as well or as often. 

The rest of his game has improved. I've always said that.

Peace brother!  Peace Dove
I wasn't addressing anyone in particular...

Just a general reaction to this thread, where three people voted for and only one (me smiley ) against.

http://ourtennisforum.forumotion.co.uk/t1003-novak-djokovic-2011-or-2015-which-one-is-better

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:28 pm

Murray is pretty close to where he was in 2011, playing well but pre-Lendl.

This match was like AO 2011 I guess, Murray misfiring and Djokovic aggressive and confident.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by paulcz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:46 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:Djokovic can reach levels that Murray can't ever. Murray didn't play bad, Djokovic was far too ahead of him in every single dept of the game.
Only a lights-out Tsonga can beat him.. not a speck less would suffice.

I didn't see the first set, but from the second set, Murray was hitting the ball as well as yesterday, the only difference - he was not playing a slow moving target, Berdych.

His fast, hard-hit shots were safer than confident Nole's and that's what made the difference.

I'd love to have seen the first few games to see who played riskier.

I am assuming that as a result of 1set, Nole got relaxed and started going for the lines and down the line (more?)in the 2nd set, at the same time, Murray got demoralised and served poorly.

But all in all, there was some very good tennis, not many long rallies. The number of shots is now replaced with higher intensity of striking the ball.

So, this match was not as ugly as their old ones at all!
That match has been one of the best Nole's matches ever and possibly the best from them. Nole played very focused, was aggressive and played with a great touch including his net game.
 I expected that Nole will be  by far more active against Murray, so it was no surprise for me.

The match showed what a big difference between players is in both aspects, game wise and in their mentality. Murray showed what an asshole he is on the court again. Just a nutcase.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:50 pm

paulcz wrote:
That match has been one of the best Nole's matches ever and possibly the best from them. Nole played very focused, was aggressive and played with a great touch including his net game.
 I expected that Nole will be  by far more active against Murray, so it was no surprise for me.

The match showed what a big difference between players is in both aspects, game wise and in their mentality. Murray showed what an asshole he is on the court again. Just a nutcase.
What did he do?
I didn't notice anything (saw only 2nd set).

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by paulcz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:57 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
paulcz wrote:
That match has been one of the best Nole's matches ever and possibly the best from them. Nole played very focused, was aggressive and played with a great touch including his net game.
 I expected that Nole will be  by far more active against Murray, so it was no surprise for me.

The match showed what a big difference between players is in both aspects, game wise and in their mentality. Murray showed what an asshole he is on the court again. Just a nutcase.
What did he do?
I didn't notice anything (saw only 2nd set).

He was swearing like and idiot since the third game in the first set. He lost his serve and his head was boiled. He grinned from ear to ear and bad-mouthed untill he knew that his effort is useless.
Nole gave him a big lesson from the game and behavior, just demolished Murray with a great grace.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:10 pm

Nothing new, but still disappointing.

I know that's how he deals with his bad shots, but it's often gamesmanship as well.
In both cases ugly, as the whole world can understand what he's saying.

Kyrgios is very similar...non-stop muttering, even during points - horrible!

Murray probably didn't expect such a sound beating today, he was good at post-mach hand-shake at least...

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by paulcz on Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:22 pm

noleisthebest wrote:Nothing new, but still disappointing.

I know that's how he deals with his bad shots, but it's often gamesmanship as well.
In both cases ugly, as the whole world can understand what he's saying.

Kyrgios is very similar...non-stop muttering, even during points - horrible!

Murray probably didn't expect such a sound beating today, he was good at post-mach hand-shake at least...

Murray is quite older and has a different position at tennis, so he can't be compared with Kyrgios.
Anyway he got demolished and now there is chance that he gets to his nut head, that his game is one level worse  against Nole. Murray just needed to being thrashed and  get a lesson.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:29 pm

He, he, I must say, nothing beats giving your close rival a thrashing Cool

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:31 pm

luvsports! wrote:See this is where you misconstrue people's views. That is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally Nole choked it vs Stan. Did he do that in '11? 
Actually Nole did not choke v Stan! Stan just played great....not different than Fed beating Nole in FO11. So let's be "honest" here too.

The rest of his game has improved. I've always said that.
Mmm can't remember reading it. When I showed that the rallies were considerably faster in USO 2014 than any of the Djoko/Nadal/Murray 2011 matches, you all disappeared in group! So please let's be "honest" here again!

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:28 pm

You never showed the rallies were faster; you just chose some random anecdotal points.
I did an actual stats check on it; with a much greater sample size, and found that the pace of rallies now is very similar to that around 7-8 years ago. You first didn't reply, then got annoyed because I was making it standardised by only counting up till 15 shots in the rally, then in the face of my much larger sample size you brought up one other anecdotal rally with tonnes of slices, then it was getting so embarrassing you didn't contribute further to the discussion.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:57 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:You never showed the rallies were faster; you just chose some random anecdotal points.
I did an actual stats check on it; with a much greater sample size, and found that the pace of rallies now is very similar to that around 7-8 years ago. You first didn't reply, then got annoyed because I was making it standardised by only counting up till 15 shots in the rally, then in the face of my much larger sample size you brought up one other anecdotal rally with tonnes of slices, then it was getting so embarrassing you didn't contribute further to the discussion.
Of course he did.
It's not his problem you don't want to see it.
You are trying to teach the master here, Donny. It looks funny.








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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:24 pm

noleisthebest wrote:
Of course he did.
It's not his problem you don't want to see it.
Actually he didn't, unfortunately for you and Tenez there's something called a timer as well as observable reality based on facts.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:26 pm

DONALD TRUMP wrote:You never showed the rallies were faster; you just chose some random anecdotal points.
I did an actual stats check on it; with a much greater sample size, and found that the pace of rallies now is very similar to that around 7-8 years ago. You first didn't reply, then got annoyed because I was making it standardised by only counting up till 15 shots in the rally, then in the face of my much larger sample size you brought up one other anecdotal rally with tonnes of slices, then it was getting so embarrassing you didn't contribute further to the discussion.
yep....you clearly are in denial....as usual.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:27 pm

Repost:

I'll take the first 15+ shot rallies I find, and measure the time it takes from the serve to the 15th shot.

DJOKOVIC VS MURRAY-
LINKS:
Djokovic Murray 2011 Aus Open: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAMJ8vsvLUk
Djokovic Murray 2015 Miami:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Noudv3vM5ZQ (Set 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueHdBwolSG0 (Set 1 TB)

Miami 2015 15+ shot rallies:
1/ 0:37-0:55 so 18 seconds
2/ 4:01-4:19 so 18 seconds
3/ 0:00-0:18 so 18 seconds again... (this one is from the TB btw)

Aus Open 2011 15+ shot rallies:
1/ 0:53-1:12 so 19 seconds
2/ 1:44-2:02 so 18 seconds
3/ 3:01-3:19 so 18 seconds again...


Nadal vs Djokovic 2007 compared to Nadal vs Djokovic Miami 2014
Links:
Nadal Djokovic IW/Miami 2007- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrkfBRKJZcE
Nadal Djokovic Miami 2014- http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x286t79_miami-2014-final-novak-djokovic-vs-rafael-nadal-highlights-hd_sport

Miami 2014:
1/ 0:38-0:57 so 19 seconds
2/ 1:55-2:14 so 19 seconds
3/ 5:21-5:39 so 18 seconds

2007 IW/Miami fixtures
1/ 0:08-0:27 so 19 seconds
2/ 1:58-2:17 so 19 seconds
3/ 4:23-4:41 so 18 seconds


NADAL VS DJOKOVIC-
Links:
Hamburg 2008- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMHKG8fh_BQ
French Open 2013- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKM19zYZX24

French Open 2013:
1/ 2:15-2:34 so 19 seconds
2/ 5:06-5:26 so 20 seconds
3/ 5:59-6:17 so 18 seconds
4/ 7:03-7:21 so 18 seconds
5/ 8:18-8:35 so 17 seconds
Average- 18.4 seconds

Hamburg 2008:
1/ 0:42-1:01 so 19 seconds
2/ 2:54-3:12 so 18 seconds
3/ 8:07-8:26 so 19 seconds
4/ 9:56-10:14 so 18 seconds
5/ 14:33-14:51 so 18 seconds
Average- 18.4 seconds

This was from a few months ago, now the Hamburg link was taken down for copyright, as well as AO 2011 one. Rest can all be verified.


Last edited by DONALD TRUMP on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

DECIMA

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:31 pm

As far as I can recall, in response to my standardised methodology with large-ish sample size; you took one anecdotal rally from 2009 which had tonnes of slices, compared it to one random normal rally in 2015- and then declared that this had proved play has been speeded up now. I found that quite funny

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by luvsports! on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:34 pm

Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:See this is where you misconstrue people's views. That is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally Nole choked it vs Stan. Did he do that in '11? 
Actually Nole did not choke v Stan! Stan just played great....not different than Fed beating Nole in FO11. So let's be "honest" here too.

The rest of his game has improved. I've always said that.
Mmm can't remember reading it. When I showed that the rallies were considerably faster in USO 2014 than any of the Djoko/Nadal/Murray 2011 matches, you all disappeared in group! So please let's be "honest" here again!

You can put "honest" all you want, but doesn't add credence to your "argument". Well you may be right but you showed like one or two examples. Not exactly a large sample is it? Lacking validity. 

Personally I don't get what is so important about speeding things up. If everyone is faster now in rallies, then everyone was generally equally slower then. What point does that make? The game is speeding up. Ok. Great. Where does that get us?

Nole panicked. Imo he was more confident back then as he went for bhdtl a lot more. I feel at times he plays within himself these days as he is so comfortable. 
Well going by aus '11-us open '11, nole had a better win % and had more competition imo. Competition that could push him or were playing better. 
So going by that & looking infallible at times and bhdtl, in some areas he was better. But serve, return, volleys, movement I think he has improved and i have said that for a while.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by DECIMA on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:39 pm

luvsports! wrote:
Personally I don't get what is so important about speeding things up. If everyone is faster now in rallies, then everyone was generally equally slower then. What point does that make? The game is speeding up. Ok. Great. Where does that get us?
Well, the point of Tenez and NITB would then be that if the play is faster, it is harder to play at that pace, so therefore as a player you'd have to improve to execute any given groundstroke. That logic itself is fine, the issue is the facts- that there is no convincing evidence to show that the game has really speeded up in the last 8 years, especially with racket technology more or less stagnant.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by noleisthebest on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:50 pm

Do you know what ball timing is?

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

Post by Tenez on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:51 pm

luvsports! wrote:
Tenez wrote:
luvsports! wrote:See this is where you misconstrue people's views. That is intellectually dishonest.

Mentally Nole choked it vs Stan. Did he do that in '11? 
Actually Nole did not choke v Stan! Stan just played great....not different than Fed beating Nole in FO11. So let's be "honest" here too.

The rest of his game has improved. I've always said that.
Mmm can't remember reading it. When I showed that the rallies were considerably faster in USO 2014 than any of the Djoko/Nadal/Murray 2011 matches, you all disappeared in group! So please let's be "honest" here again!

You can put "honest" all you want, but doesn't add credence to your "argument". Well you may be right but you showed like one or two examples. Not exactly a large sample is it? Lacking validity. 
It does cause it's there to see. The stats on the 2 rallies I refer to just back the point. 10% faster is huge. In that case it was 4seconds faster over a 39second rally. It's like breaking the 100m record by a whole one second! Sure  it was just an example but I challenge you to find a 20+ shot rally that was played faster in 2011 than in 2014 (in those matches I refer to)...and it happened that Murray and Djoko also think they are have been playing more aggressive since then. That alone completely stamps Amri's "data" as usual garbage.

Personally I don't get what is so important about speeding things up. If everyone is faster now in rallies, then everyone was generally equally slower then. What point does that make? The game is speeding up. Ok. Great. Where does that get us?
It's easy...everytime things are getting tougher, faster some are left by the side of the race. if you don't progress, if you can't keep up, you slide down. That's why when you look at ranking of 2011 there are names close to the top that are nowhere to be seen nowadays. So the point is had Djoko played "as well as" 2011, fed woudl have 2 more slams this year.

I am not a big fan of Nole so I woudl not care whether he was better then or now ..but it's just bloody obvious he is so much better nowadays than 2011. I am not sure there is any point arguing about it.

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Re: ATP Masters 1000: SHANGHAI

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